Oscar Peterson

[dusken]

Let the forum know what you think!

[spiral]

haha

I love your two choices.

[loseyourname]

I think I have no idea who he is.

[dusken]

Originally posted by loseyourname I think I have no idea who he is.

BLASPHEMER!

[loseyourname]

Educate me, sexy.

[dusken]

Originally posted by loseyourname Educate me, sexy.

He is a jazz pianist, hot stuff.

[loseyourname]

Ha ha, you said pianist.

If he's good enough for you, then I think he is absolutely fantaaaaastic.

[anileve]

Oscar Peterson rocks!!! Finally a decent question from your gloomy shadow, dusken. Night Train is awesome, although I have to say that I prefer Duke over Oscar, especially his "Caravan" and "In a sentimental mood". I think he's absolutely marvelous daaarling. Sonny Rollins also does a number on "In a Sentimental Mood", and I tell you the feeling I get from listening to it, is like that feeling when someone gently strokes the back of my neck. Oooo La La.

[ardenik]

Originally posted by anileve although I have to say that I prefer Duke over Oscar, especially his "Caravan" and "In a sentimental mood".

Duke Ellington and Oscar Peterson are two musicians you really can't compare..

Duke, although he was a fantastic pianist, was way more successful as one of jazz history's most prolific composers & arrangers & as the leader of his band rather than as a piano player. His compositions like "Caravan", "In a Sentimental Mood", "Cottontail", "It Don't Mean a Thing (If It Ain't Got that Swing)", and sooo many others, had a profound impact on the history of jazz & most of them have become part of standard repertoire.

Oscar Peterson, on the other hand, is one of jazz history's most influential piano players. Very much following in the virtuosic tradition of his pianistic predecessor, Art Tatum, Oscar Peterson, along with a select few other pianists of his era, such as Bud Powell, really helped in emancipating the role of the piano player in jazz by transfering onto the piano the crazy fast angular melodies of bebop vocabulary created and proliferated by jazz trumpetists and saxophonists of that era like John Birks "Dizzy" Gillespie, and the creator of modern jazz vocabulary himself (from the 1940s on), Charlie "Yardbird" Parker.

So there you have it :) Duke Ellington and Oscar Peterson. Two GIANTS in jazz history who cannot be compared with each other. They were simply both GREAT!!

Arden

[anileve]

Originally posted by ardenik Duke Ellington and Oscar Peterson are two musicians you really can't compare..

Well lookie who we have here…a jazz expert. :) First of all welcome to our humble forum, second of all just by creating this eloquent post you have become one of my favorite people.

I whole-heartedly agree with your view on the comparison of the two artists. However, you must also recall Duke’s solo collaboration with many other jazz musicians. I know I am a bit fixated on the “In a sentimental Mood” piece, but it is probably my most cherished one, well I believe the best version of it is by Duke and Cultrate, the play is so harmonious and complimentary and with no interference of a big band. There are several others where he performs without the big band “effect”. Oscar Peterson is amazing, however there is probably less work that I favor by him as opposed to let’s say Thelonious Monk, whom I simply adore! Especially his sultry and sexy sound in “Round About Midnight”, you just can't resist your emotions from swiveling in a captivating trance of his superb presentation.

[dusken]

Duke and Coltrane doing "In a Sentimental Mood" is, for me, the most romantic performance ever.

I tend to not compare jazz musicians for a reason similar to what ardenik's spill suggested. The jazz musicians and composers we talk about all contributed something unique to the scene. Is Oscar Peterson better than Ahmad Jamal? No. They are different. Is the Duke better than the Count? No. They are just different. I view it this way across the board with all of the musicians and composers. Buddy Rich could have ripped up the kit more than Max Roach but they were equally influential.

[anileve]

Originally posted by dusken Duke and Coltrane doing "In a Sentimental Mood" is, for me, the most romantic performance ever.

I tend to not compare jazz musicians for a reason similar to what ardenik's spill suggested. The jazz musicians and composers we talk about all contributed something unique to the scene. Is Oscar Peterson better than Ahmad Jamal? No. They are different. Is the Duke better than the Count? No. They are just different. I view it this way across the board with all of the musicians and composers. Buddy Rich could have ripped up the kit more than Max Roach but they were equally influential.

I don't believe I used the word "better", although I do recall using the word "prefer", which simply implies my "preference". I would PREFER listening to Charlie Parker over Chick Corea and Thelonius Monk over Herbie Hanc0ck. Eventhough each addresses a different "style" I still have my preference in terms of how often I listen to them and which one stirs my emotions more effectively.

[dusken]

Originally posted by anileve I don't believe I used the word "better", although I do recall using the word "prefer", which simply implies my "preference". I would PREFER listening to Charlie Parker over Chick Corea and Thelonius Monk over Herbie Hanc0ck. Eventhough each addresses a different "style" I still have my preference in terms of how often I listen to them and which one stirs my emotions more effectively.

I understand and was not necessarily addressing what you said. I have preferences as well.

The problem with the comparisons you made above is that they are not the same style of music. Corea and Hanc0ck play[ed] mostly fusion jazz where Parker and Monk were bop. In any case, I would prefer to listen to bop over fusion. But you should check out Corea's Acoustic Band with Weckl and Pattitucci. And you should check out Herbie's Quintet album called V.S.O.P., which is not fusion.

[anileve]

Originally posted by dusken
The problem with the comparisons you made above is that they are not the same style of music. Corea and Hanc0ck play[ed] mostly fusion jazz where Parker and Monk were bop. In any case, I would prefer to listen to bop over fusion. But you should check out Corea's Acoustic Band with Weckl and Pattitucci. And you should check out Herbie's Quintet album called V.S.O.P., which is not fusion.

Dusken, would you care to step out of your bleakness for a moment and actually pay close attention to my posts? Just for you I shall repost “Eventhough each addresses a different "style" I still have my preference in terms of how often I listen to them and which one stirs my emotions more effectively.” See I mentioned style and I also mentioned that they have different ones. Where do you see a problem there, besides the obvious fact that you seek something to disagree with me on. What’s the matter, you wish to attract more attention from me than you already do? You must be a devoted masochist.

In terms of Chick Corea, I highly enjoy his "Spain" piece, however most of his work doesn't really intice me. I'll make sure to look into Weckl and Patti and Herbie. I am not really a huge fan of dissonance, but some of it is quite interesting and like you I prefer bop with mild to heavy improvisation, fusion doesn't really move me as much.

[dusken]

Originally posted by anileve Dusken, would you care to step out of your bleakness for a moment and actually pay close attention to my posts? Just for you I shall repost “Eventhough each addresses a different "style" I still have my preference in terms of how often I listen to them and which one stirs my emotions more effectively.” See I mentioned style and I also mentioned that they have different ones. Where do you see a problem there, besides the obvious fact that you seek something to disagree with me on. What’s the matter, you wish to attract more attention from me than you already do? You must be a devoted masochist.

For Hell's sake; I am sorry. Bleakness? There is no bleakness. You and everyone else assigns a tone to my posts that is not there. And get over yourself already. Also, yes, I am a masochist in addition to being a sadist.

Originally posted by anileve In terms of Chick Corea, I highly enjoy his "Spain" piece, however most of his work doesn't really intice me. I'll make sure to look into Weckl and Patti and Herbie. I am not really a huge fan of dissonance, but some of it is quite interesting and like you I prefer bop with mild to heavy improvisation, fusion doesn't really move me as much.

Weckl and Pattitucci are musicians that played with Corea. Listen to a CD of the trio playing accoustically. It is good stuff.

Herbie Hanc0ck's VSOP album is real great.

Regarding dissonance: I think is is funny you should say that since it is so prevalent in jazz. Miles Davis played chromatic scales going in and out of key all the time. Duke Ellington would do these walk-downs where, for example, a D natural and a D sharp would be played simultaneously. The list goes on. I think it plays a big role in making jazz interesting.

[ardenik]

first of all thank you anileve for the warm welcome :) up to this post, i had replied to 3 or 4 other threads & every one of them just STOPPED being replied to as soon as i posted something!! lol probably just coincidence, but funny all the same :D

CHICK COREA:

chick corea's akoustic band album might not be the best introduction to chick's acoustic music. if i had to give my personal opinion on the akoustic band album, i dont like it so so so much.. i LOVE chick corea... i transcribed his solo on "Spain" & had to play it along with the CD for an audition last year. but i must say akoustic band is not among my personal favorite works by chick corea. it just sounds too "GRP" for my taste, but thats just my opinion.

what i would recommend by chick, on the other hand, for part-time jazz fans and jazz connaisseurs alike, is his album "My Spanish Heart". its a sweet balance between his acoustic capabilities (acoustic piano, live string instruments, brass section, etc. featuring legendary jazz violinist Jean-Luc Ponty) combined with hints of the more electric instruments like in albums such as "Light as a Feather" & "The Leprechaun" (Fender Rhodes, Mini-Moog synth, Arp Odyssey etc.) this album features the original version of the famous tune "Armando's Rhumba" which on this album is played only by Chick on piano, Ponty (violin), the mind-boggling Stanley Clarke (dbl bass) and hand claps & foot stomps by Chick & Narada Michael Walden. AMAZING tune. AMAZING album. highly recommended (by me, anyway)

You want to hear Chick ripping it up in a totally acoustic setting? check out the album "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs". First time i heard this album, i knew chick only thru 'light as a feather' and 'my spanish heart' & so when my buddy made me hear "now he sings..." at first i thought it was Herbie. its a great album. features the very well known tune "Windows" which is absolutely marvelous.

HERBIE HANC0CK:

since his first album as a leader "Takin' Off" (1962) until today, Herbie has covered so many different styles of music, i think one of the only ppl who have done this more than him was miles davis.

so what do i recommend? start at the beginning!! "Takin' Off" is one of my favorite albums of all time. i cant even imagine what it was like to hear this for the first time in 1962... a young Herbie Hanc0ck (22yrs, before his stint in the Miles Davis Quintet which made him most famous) & a young Freddie Hubbard (24yrs)..... two prodigious musicians who would play fundamental roles in the direction music was to take in the next decade.... also featuring one of the giants of the tenor sax, Dexter Gordon. who was already a huge name when this album was recorded (he was 41) There is some really GREAT playing on this album, & i would recommend it to anybody, as it is very accessible to even a jazz-layman audience. or also for those who arent into the heavy dissonance ;)

you like funk? & the sound of bass so FAT it interrupts ur heartrate? check out the Herbie albums: "Headhunters" (1973) and "Thrust" (1974).... very funky, very black, very awesome. I could say without a doubt that these 2 albums had a lot to do with the later emergence of both hip-hop AND electronic music.... check out these albums, they're awesome!!!!!

LATER! :P

arden

[dusken]

Personally, I would introduce someone to Herbie with the Miles stuff over the pre-Miles stuff because it was more mature, in my opinion. Headhunters is great.

[anileve]

Originally posted by ardenik first of all thank you anileve for the warm welcome :) up to this post, i had replied to 3 or 4 other threads & every one of them just STOPPED being replied to as soon as i posted something!! lol probably just coincidence, but funny all the same :D

Ardenik, are you kidding? You've hit my soft spot, I grew up on Jazz. 90% of the time, Jazz was the only music heard in our household. I've dreamed of playing sax, took up piano instead, but had no patience since I've wanted to play the Moonlight Sonata from the start. Instead I had to play childish songs which I had no interest in, so that was the end of my piano career.

I am glad we have at least 2 lovers of jazz here. And I would guess you are a musician, Andranik. Which instrument do you play?

Dusk, dissonance is actually more prevalent of fusion. Bop has more of an agreeable combination of sounds, harmony is the main key no matter the improv, both can coexist rather beautifully. Chaotic movements lacking coherent play is not my forte, one of the reasons I don't like xxxxxes Brew. His earlier stuff is magnificent though, and "My Funny Valentine" from his "Cookin'..." album is soooo HOT! I think I am known in NY for requesting that piece, and I've heard some awesome performances and some really xxxxty ones.

I am more of a Cannonball Adderly “Dancing in the Dark” person. I prefer more of a sexy and luscious groove with a touch of complexity. Improvisation is a very sensitive subject, if not mastered well it might turn into irritating noise.

By the way, probably the most amazing place to listen to Jazz live is “Smalls”, the place is very simple and small (hence the name) and every note travels through your body as it vibrates through the walls of the congested room. There is no pretentiousness, just love for jazz from the audience and jazz musicians. Watching them, you just know they are experiencing one of their orgasmic moments.

[ardenik]

ding ding ding ding!!! yes i am a musician :p i am a piano player. studying jazz à l'université de montréal :)

dissonance is a touchy subject.... & its hard to evaluate dissonance by style. ur example of Bit.ches Brew is a good one for building the case of fusion being more "dissonant", but consider a comparison between a lot of John Scofield stuff and, say, Bud Powell's "Un Poco Loco", which is pure bop, and full of dissonance... Scofield is fusion, but a lot more chilled out than Bit.ches Brew...... less "dissonant" if u will.....

The whole esthetic of bebop is founded on the idea of dissonance, so to sever bebop from its fundamental aspect would be like taking the distortion out of james hetfield's guitar. There is no jazz without dissonance.. in fact there is no music without dissonance. On an elemental level, music is the alternation of tension (dissonance) and release (resolution). This has been the binding force of music for over a thousand years, as long as there has been polyphony in music, there has been dissonance. Ever since more or less the 9th century with the emergence of a practice of polyphonic singing called "Organum" in the churches of Europe (polyphony = more than one note at a time)

im sorry im going off on these tangents here, but just to say that "dissonant" would probably not be the best word to define the chaotic element in music like Bit.ches Brew. Its more like.... avant-garde.. playing "outside" of the harmony.. its hard to put a word on it, but what it comes down to is a lack of resolution in the traditional sense of the word. Taking away from voice-leading and harmony in favor of impulse and expressive freedom.

Improvisation is immediate and reactive expression. And just because it sounds like chaotic noise, doesn't mean we can say the musician has not mastered it enough. Take the example of John Coltrane, the Messiah of jazz. This dude could PLAY on chord changes... we know that because we heard him play with miles' earlier quintet. he's got a lot of credibility, having written & recorded Giant Steps (1959) which was a tune (and an album) which epitomized bop in its most intense form. it was like an oversaturation of bop elements, like bop on steroids!! & then (the same year, in fact) he participated in the recording of miles' Kind of Blue... which was the total opposite of Giant Steps... no more crazy fast chord changes, no more tonality, no more dominant harmony..... just a couple of modal scales.. & melodies, totally improvised. & fcukin BEAUTIFUL ones at that.... so when coltrane went on to make albums like "A Love Supreme" or his even later, freer stuff, with pretty "chaotic" and "noisy" solos.. with screeches and screams, and playing with upper harmonic overtones on the sax, 2 notes at a time, which nobody had really done before on a horn (at least not on purpose!! lol) could u say it's because he hasnt mastered improvisation? ..... not at all!! right? one of the reasons is because coltrane ALSO played on "Cookin' with the Miles Davis Quintet"... & did a fantastic job on that album, in that style. its really a question of hearing the underlying ideas in that chaotic music, being in the right frame of mind, being in the right place, spiritually. because we cant say about any of these guys that they havent mastered improvisation... because we've seen them do it in the most beautiful, coherent way imaginable.

arden

[dusken]

Thanks, ardenik.


Originally posted by anileve Ardenik, are you kidding? You've hit my soft spot, I grew up on Jazz. 90% of the time, Jazz was the only music heard in our household. I've dreamed of playing sax, took up piano instead, but had no patience since I've wanted to play the Moonlight Sonata from the start. Instead I had to play childish songs which I had no interest in, so that was the end of my piano career.

I am glad we have at least 2 lovers of jazz here. And I would guess you are a musician, Andranik. Which instrument do you play?

Dusk, dissonance is actually more prevalent of fusion. Bop has more of an agreeable combination of sounds, harmony is the main key no matter the improv, both can coexist rather beautifully. Chaotic movements lacking coherent play is not my forte, one of the reasons I don't like xxxxxes Brew. His earlier stuff is magnificent though, and "My Funny Valentine" from his "Cookin'..." album is soooo HOT! I think I am known in NY for requesting that piece, and I've heard some awesome performances and some really xxxxty ones.

I listen to fusion all the time. It tends to be less harmonically complicated.

And I hope you are not forgetting me in that "I am glad we have at least 2 lovers of jazz here." Plus the poll as 5 votes, I think, so that should make you feel better.

[ardenik]

I didnt wanna take sides or anything, im just sayin what i think... :$ She said "at least 2" so that means there could be more, dusk :p hehe

Originally posted by dusken I listen to fusion all the time. It tends to be less harmonically complicated

less harmonically complicated, yes, in the case of stuff like John Scofield, or Medesky Martin & Wood..... but in the case of, say, Bicthes Brew, its only less complicated because there's hardly any harmony in it!! hehehe

Originally posted by anileve I believe the best version of it is by Duke and Cultrate, the play is so harmonious and complimentary and with no interference of a big band.

uh-ohhh... :eek: i think there's a group of 17 ppl out there somewhere who are gathering torches and pitchforks to come get you!! LOL

[dusken]

Originally posted by ardenik less harmonically complicated, yes, in the case of stuff like John Scofield, or Medesky Martin & Wood..... but in the case of, say, Bicthes Brew, its only less complicated because there's hardly any harmony in it!! hehehe

Right. Music like that is important because of its style and artistic contribution and not as an exercise in music theory.

[dusken]

And in no way am I saying that the music is simplistic or easy. I mean it relatively, of course. I love that stuff.

[ardenik]

well in classical music history, a lot of the best theorists were pretty lousy composers, & the best composers pretty lousy theorists (i mean... to a certain point, obviously.... the great composers knew their theory inside out, they just didnt mind occasionally breaking the rules for the purposes of their compositions) & thats how the whole concept of "avant-garde" could exist. if nobody ever broke the rules, music, just like society, would never progress.

this has proven even more true in jazz, as the very large majority of great composers of jazz tunes were band leaders or players of some sort, not court musicians who were locked up in a tower for years at a time writing music they would hardly get to hear, like many classical greats. & therefore they were involved first hand with the performance of their tunes & charts and were hardly concerned with how "theoretically correct" their compositions were. 2 good examples of jazz composers who took great delight in breaking the rules of harmony in their compositions & arrangements: Duke Ellington & Charles Mingus.

The thing that's particular about Duke's writing style is that he threw the common practice of chord voicings or thickened-line voicings (thickened line = when u take a melodic line & harmonize it in 4- or 5-parts which follow the melodic contour of the original line in a mostly parallel manner. the final product is a melody moving in chords, rather than single notes) out the window & paid more attention rather to the melodic lines assigned to the individual players in his orchestra, whom he knew very well & would keep their personalities, capabilities & playing styles well in mind for every note he would write for them. & he was doing this since way back in the early-1930's, if not 20's....

and so just like THEORY has continued progressing since then... so has "who gives a sh1t about theory"-ism!!! hehehe

[dusken]

I do not disagree with you, but one most know the rules in order to break them. Bach wrote music that did not resolve "normally". And I know of the Duke's iconoclasticisms. For example, and I mentioned this before, I believe it was in "It Don't Mean a Thing..." where he had a walkdown which resulted in playing a natural and a sharp of the same note together. I would be one of the first to recognize the theoretical rule-breaking in jazz or classical. But I still do not believe that fusion (even B!tch's Brew) is approached with as much of an emphasis on theory, whether it is a conscious disregard or an adherence.

[ardenik]

by dusken: But I still do not believe that fusion (even B!tch's Brew) is approached with as much of an emphasis on theory, whether it is a conscious disregard or an adherence.

the only difference between what i said & what ure saying is that duke broke the rules on paper, whereas miles' band on b!tches brew broke them directly on their instruments, in real time. (and also the fact that miles' band in 1969 took the whole "breaking the rules" thing much further than duke did, as in they broke the rules.... umm... harder, if u will... lol)

.... & thats not even an actual difference, since i agree with that statement & i believe u will too! loll

[dusken]

Truce.

:)

[anileve]

Have you guys heard of Marie Rene? I heard her music for the first time this weekend. She is simply amazing! I didn’t think that it was possible for anyone to scat the way Ella did, this artist comes frighteningly close. You guys should listen to her version of “Strange Fruit”, it’s better than Billie’s, it soars from the gut and just makes you shiver with every note she shatters with her powerful voice. The trumpet in that song is breathtaking and seems like it’s crying along with her. If you get a chance listen to that particular piece and let me know what you think. This is a website with a little intro to her voice, although it doesn’t do justice to her outstanding version of “Strange Fruit”. Simply brilliant!

http://www.maxjazz.com/marie/card/ecard.htm

[dusken]

Where did you hear "Strange Fruit"? Did you purchase an album? And does she scat on that song?

[anileve]

Where did you hear "Strange Fruit"? Did you purchase an album? And does she scat on that song?

My friend has an album, so I got to taste the flavor this weekend. No she doesn't scat in that song, if you know it you'll remember that it's more bluesy and sorrowful. Although in the rest of the album she did an amazing number on "Them There Eyes", that one gave me goose bumps, a scat like that I haven’t heard since Ella. This is the album by the way. The trumpet was unbelievable, I still can't get over it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005O7UF/ref=m_art_li_1/104-3614689-3692710?v=glance&s=music

[dusken]

Well she has quite an impressive band behind her. Mulgrew Miller and Jeff Watts are included.

She has her own site, too: Rene Marie (http://www.renemarie.com)

I will check it out when I am home.

[nairi]

Oscar doesn't happen to be black, does he? ...

[dusken]

Yes, he is black.

http://search.eb.com/blackhistory/art/opete00001p1.jpg

[anileve]

Take a look at this, I knew I wasn't the only one thinking the same thing, the author just phrased it so much better. And I do agree, her perfomance is vocally very sensual and passionate with that edgy "lip-biting" effect.

==========

Vertigo
René Marie | MaxJazz 114


Ms. Marie serves up a release even more satisfying than her delectable debutHow Can I Keep From Singing.

Laverne Butler, Carla Cook, and now René Marie have all released their second recordings for the MaxJazz Vocal Series. Ms. Marie is following up her 2000 releaseHow Can I Keep From Singing(MaxJazz 109) withVertigo, another collection of provocatively chosen standards and originals. Outstanding from her debut on MaxJazz was her steamy, sexually charged delivery of Santamaria's “Afro Blue.” Added to that reading was the cusp cover of “Tennessee Waltz,” delivered in a lip-smacking multicultural, multi-genre style made famous by Miles Davis, Cassandra Wilson, and now perfected by MaxJazz. OnVertigo, this cusp cover is the Beatles's “Blackbird,” which Ms. Marie expels slowly and effortlessly as if in a single breath. Joined again by pianist Mulgrew Miller with bassist Robert Hurst and Drummer Jeff Watts along for the ride this time, Ms. Marie further out on the limb of artistic risk taking, largely with positive results.

René Marie displays her torch singing stripes on several pieces, beginning with the disc opener, “Them there Eyes,” which she scats through in a scorching manner and “I'd Rather Talk About You”. R & H's “Surrey With The Fringe On Top” is delivered in a folksy down-home manner. “I Only Have Eyes for You” is given a slight Bossa treatment by guitarist John Hart and Chris Potter provides brilliant minimalism to the minimalist “It's Alright With Me.” The title piece, a Marie original, is an angular, off center quest for love. Chris Potter's tenor makes this piece even more dizzying.

The composition and delivery are polyrhythmic to the extreme and capable of inducing vertigo. The disc centerpiece is without question the pairing of “Dixie” with “Strange Fruit.” Some critics have considered this coupling controversial. There is nothing controversial about it. It is a brilliant irony, juxtaposition, transmogrification, or whatever 25-cent word one wants to apply. Ms. Marie opens the medley with an unaccompanied rendering of “Dixie” that she pulls through the Blues, Spirituals and Gospel traditions with a lighted torch. “Strange Fruit” is taken as a slow New Orleans March, a “St. Vincent's Infirmary” as a drum march. Jeremy Pelt's trumpet echoes Satchmo and King Oliver, screaming with Marie as she sings of the “smell of burning flesh.” Beautifully done and worth the purchase price of the whole disc if for nothing else. This disc is a worthy follow-up to her debut and proves Ms. Marie one of the great high-wire acts in jazz today.
====
Amen!

Article (http://www.allaboutjazz.com/reviews/r1101_175.htm)

[Tres Bien]

Oscar Peterson, sounds like a swedish name.Is he a swede?

[nairi]

Oscar Peterson, sounds like a swedish name.Is he a swede?

It's probably the name of his ancestors' master, aka slave-owner.

The master may well have been a Swede.

[Tres Bien]

oh now i get it lol :) He cant be swedish, because he doesnt looked like a swede, simply :D Those swedes, haa! and they say they are so democratic and all that, and then they keep slaves!