Trouble in Armenia

[TigranJamharian]

As anyone that follows Armenian news would know, right now Armenia is in a bad spot. The opposition and the authorities are quite divided and there doesnt seem much room for a compromise, with the opposition asking for a referendum of confidence and Kocharian and his allies dismissing the idea completely. I just read an article that really troubled me very much: http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniareport/report/en/2004/04/B4DF9683-3EFE-452E-BE4F-37DCCBE1F764.ASP

because it shows how the authorities are cracking down and are not even making a pretense of being democratic or open. this makes me angry and now i am in support of the opposition.

Armenia's GDP actually shrunk in January as compared to last January, and the rise in GDP in February as compared to last February was one of the lowest in the CIS. This demonstrates to me how the GDP growth was so dependant on Kirk Kirkorian's Lincy aid. I am sick and tired of Kocharian and his undemocratic way of running the country. He has failed on almost every one of his promises. From settleing the Kharabakh conflict to creating jobs. And everywhere I look I read about how bad the situation is.

#1 Russia basically controls our country
#2 Half the country is living in poverty
#3 The entire country except for Yerevan is not growing at all
#4 The environmental situation in the country is absolutely horrendous.
#5 Corruption is rampant and it seems anyone connected with the government can get away with anything
#6 Democracy is extremely stifled. From the latest attacks on the opposition and the press and unqualified arrests of opposition deputies to us just recently passin the 2nd anniversary of the closure of A1+.

Now I'm not saying that Demirchian is going to come and solve all our problems but I think that he is young and is not instilled with the corruption and deceit of the communist system and will not try to stifle democracy and use force against his opposition. We also need someone who looks to the US and EU and not to old decaying Russia for help.

[Anonymouse]

Maybe it's time the people ousted that motherfocker.

[TigranJamharian]

well i think so.
what about you

[Anonymouse]

I think so too but whats the alternative? Anyone who sits on the throne is not going to give a damn. These people should have their penises cut off. I hate politicians with a fury. They are all evil and all expendable.

[dusken]

It is a shame that it is more of a mafia than a government. What percentage of financial aid filtered through the government gets lost? Unbelievable. What may be good, if it has not happened yet (I do not know), is if some spyurkahyes step into to the government. It probably is not possible, unfortunately. It is just that I would like to see Armenia on the map, so to speak, but it's own worst enemies are the Armenians. How embarrassing is that?

[xBaron Dants]

I'm in a state of pure anger and disbelief right now.

The year had seemingly started well with a (kind of) crackdown on corruption, Armenia joining GRECO, and talks of improvement.

There HAVE been SOME improvements...
Such as Parliament actually dropping a bill because of public opinion, or the son of a minister being accused with murder (it would have probably been ignored a few years earlier......but I still don't see how the son of a non-corrupt minister is committing murder, and owns a brand new SUV at the age of 21).

Lately, all we are seeing is BS after BS after BS. One official being replaced by the other, who in turn is being replaced by the first one. It's like this infinite cycle of the same corrupt people who are being recycled.

Serzh Sarkisian is acting like nothing short of a military dictator. Kocharian is doing nothing to condemn anything, and seems quite comfortable with the whole fiasco.....and the opposition just seems to be using rhetoric.

I want Kocharian and Sarkisian, with their huge, bald, leather jacket wearing thugs, OUT. I want the tobacco company owning MPs, who block legislation making the sale of tobacco illegal to minors, OUT. I'm just not sure if I want anyone from the opposition IN. Maybe Stepan Demirchyan is the best option. He is the only one in which I have a little (veeeery little) hope. But he has surrounded himself with idiots like Aram Sargsyan, Albert Bazeyan....all people who have scores to settle with Kocharian, and who do not seem in the least bit concerned with Armenia's well-being. Armenia needs and deserves a viable option. My opinion is that diasporans should be a lot more involved. And this is definitely not some anti-Hayastantsi remark. Hayastantsis from the new generation also need to be more involved. I just don't see how Soviet apparatchiks (that was the word, right?) running the show with their old mentality will be able to change (or want to change) anything.

[dusken]

Hey, Baron, watch it with the "bald" comments. :D

[xBaron Dants]

Hey, Baron, watch it with the "bald" comments. :D

Ooh! Did I say bald? I meant bold....yes...bold.

Cause what they were doing is really courageous...and stuff..... :mad:

[Anonymouse]

Armenians need more suicide bombers to go and blow up the president.

[xBaron Dants]

Armenians need more suicide bombers to go and blow up the president.

Not at all. That will just stregthen the authorities' hold on the situation. They will use "emergency measures" as an excuse.

[dusken]

I need to step in and become a dictator just long enough for me to decide how things should be run and who will be running it. And I will always remain in the background to makes sure that they do not make a mistake. If they do, I will torture them.

[TigranJamharian]

Well it looks like things have really started today. According to the police there were 6,500 people rallying today. According to Artarutyun there were 25 000 people. Reuters puts it at 20 000 and Associated Press at "more than 10 000". It is worth noting that the authorities closed the roads to Yerevan in order to keep opposition supporters from the provinces from coming to the rally. Whatever the number is it seems that a lot of people got out and from the reactions of the coalition parties and Kocharian himself it seems that there is in fact a slim chance he might resign. By the way it is remarkeable that there was no violence and the police did not try to disperse the rally despite the fact that it was not sanctioned by the city.

Lets hope there is no violence and that there might be some results from all of this.

[Anonymouse]

They should publically hang that focking xxxxxxx. I hate him. I wish someone kills him. But not before torturing him for 23 days.

[xBaron Dants]

Wow. Kocharian actually feeling some pressure? So it seemed while reading the news today. The parties of the coalition government said they were ready to discuss the confidence vote and other such topics, as long as it is outside the Parliament. For the country's and the people's sake, the opposition should stop the whole "we will not discuss, we only want power change" stance and at least hold some form of discussion.

In somewhat related news, the minister whose son was arrested for murder resigned from his post today...which is a good thing.

[dstyle]

I heard they had a sit down today. Hopefully all will be fixed. I dont trust the politics the US is trying to run in that region.

[xBaron Dants]

I AM OUTRAGED!!!

OUT WITH KOCHARIAN AND HIS CRONIES!!! This is the saddest news I've heard in a while. What the government did today is not something the government has the right to do. Kocharian is a disgusting individual if he is at the head of all of this.

We need change, and we need change fast....but where is the alternative???

[dusken]

What is in the news?

[TigranJamharian]

Merci Vrouyr jan. Apres.

[TigranJamharian]

Well. it seems the protests are over? is it? i am still somewhat optomistic mainly because demirchian and geghamian are issuing optomistic statements.


Kocharian I hope you are reading this. Get the Fcuk out of office.

If i could only be in Armenia right now!

[Anonymouse]

Me and Tigran don't disagree on the sad state of affairs and the need for change, where we disagree is our personalities and this something that goes back far. I just don't like the runt, and he feels the same.

[xBaron Dants]

Me and Tigran don't disagree on the sad state of affairs and the need for change, where we disagree is our personalities and this something that goes back far. I just don't like the runt, and he feels the same.

Fair enough. You dislike the runt, he dislikes the idiot. Let us now move on, and stick to the topic.

[sSsflamesSs]

I'm having a hard time keeping myself from going crazy over what happened last night in Yerevan.

Baron, is this (http://www.armenpress.am/eng/news/polit.htm) what you are referring to?

I am especially worried, since my family resides on Marshal Baghramian poghots. :(

POLICE DISPERSE OPPOSITION RALLY

YEREVAN, APRIL 13, ARMENPRESS: Armenian police used water cannons and stun grenades to disperse an opposition rally in Yerevan, that was demanding the resignation of president Robert Kocharian. A special operation for driving the protesters from the Marshal Baghramian Avenue, where the presidential palace and the parliament building are situated, was started today morning at 02.00, local time.

The police told Armenpress that the decision to start the operation was made after the unsanctioned rally, organized by the Ardarutyun (Justice ) alliance and the National Unity on April 12, moved from Theater Square in downtown Yerevan to Baghramian Avenue, developing into an uncontrolled gathering that was accompanied by provocative calls and offensive language together with announcements for a violent overthrow of the current authorities.

The police said the gathering disrupted the traffic and normal work of several government agencies and foreign diplomatic missions and public order, as the demonstrators were singing and dancing, shattering peace and quiet of residents in nearby houses.

The police said that despite numerous warnings that their actions were illegal and in violation of laws, and that they would be retaliated appropriately if continued, the demonstrators took no notice, throwing in response fire-bombs, bottles and stones.

The police said the demonstrators' actions were getting more and more aggressive, threatening both police officers and ordinary citizens, as a result they had to apply physical force and other measures, stipulated by the Law on Police, to stave off further offenses of the law and neutralize the danger to people's life and health. The police said demonstrators were armed with batons, metal rods and knives.

The clash between police officers and demonstrators left several officers and demonstrators injured, some were taken to hospitals. The police said some of opposition activists and leaders were detained, including a parliament member Shavarsh Kocharian, who, they said, was armed with a gun. Some of other opposition leaders took to flight. The police said they are now tying to track them down and arrest. The police said they have notified the chief prosecutor about their actions. They also said that the situation is now under the full control of the authorities.

[xBaron Dants]

That, and this:

http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniareport/report/en/2004/04/8E351426-000E-4BBB-A18E-EBD42BD93946.ASP

http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniareport/report/en/2004/04/BB66FD85-1F09-4793-A0E3-B2E31012E82C.ASP

And some great words from Raffi Hovanissian about the whole thing

http://www.a1plus.am/eng/?go=issue&id=16503&PHPSESSID=5bc037f4425aca0fc5ccfa165cb9abe2

[Anonymouse]

Time for a clean up and overthrow of that ruling government, eh? Someone ought to assassinate that Turkic president. If only I had sniper skills.

[A.R.]

You want Kocharian out but the Azeris also want their arch enemy Kocharian out... Kocharian won the Presidental vote,last April, Armenia's Constitutional Court confirmed the results of the presidential vote... So whats the problem?
Why do you want to "overthrow" the Goverment of Armenia? The Armenian oppostion is funded by "external forces" why would and Armenian support that.... Either way Kocharian is here to stay until 2008, the stability of Armenia is the most important thing... Even though I support Kocharian I will still criticize him respectfully about the fight against corruption, the shadow economy, and the system of clans, but know this we are a WAR! Their are "dark forces" out their who would like nothing better that to see Armenia wiped off the map...


Kind Regards

A.R.

[xBaron Dants]

You want Kocharian out but the Azeris also want their arch enemy Kocharian out... Kocharian won the Presidental vote,last April, Armenia's Constitutional Court confirmed the results of the presidential vote... So whats the problem?
Why do you want to "overthrow" the Goverment of Armenia? The Armenian oppostion is funded by "external forces" why would and Armenian support that.... Either way Kocharian is here to stay until 2008, the stability of Armenia is the most important thing... Even though I support Kocharian I will still criticize him respectfully about the fight against corruption, the shadow economy, and the system of clans, but know this we are a WAR! Their are "dark forces" out their who would like nothing better that to see Armenia wiped off the map...


Kind Regards

A.R.

If you go through my past posts, I had repeatedly stated that Armenia needs stability, and that I don't trust Aram Sargsyan/Artashes Geghamian any more than I trust Kocharian. But what Kocharian's clan did today was disgusting. Attacking journalists and peaceful protesters? If we are going to accept a dictatorship for the sake of stability, we are DOOMED.

Just because he won a (rigged) election doesn't mean he has the right to erase freedom of expression and freedom of the press off the constitution.

Even if there is no revolution, I'm hoping the authorities will WAKE UP, and wake up soon. Our country deserves better.

[A.R.]

Lets see who runs the propaganda machine called RFE/RL "Armenia" Liberty
which you love to get your news {I call it Propaganda} from...
_____________

Armenian society is already realizing who and what 'dark forces' are behind the RFE/RL

RADIO LISTENER INFURIATED BY RFE/RL REPORTING

'I was extremely enraged after reading a mean and shameless
story, posted on your Internet website, telling about how the
Armenian youths reacted to demonstration of a Turkish film in
Yerevan. But it was not the protest of the youths that made me
furious, but your denial of the Armenian genocide,' Zareh
Sinanian, an employee of a well-known Californian Zelle-Hofmann
legal firm, wrote in a latter, addressed to the Armenian Service
of the RFE/RL.

'It was an unprincipled story and not signed. The events and
historical facts of 1915 Enough! You have exposed long before your true face
as the
propaganda machine that serves the interests of the USA and
Israel's ally Turkey. It is not the first time when you present
the horrible crime, committed against Armenians, as the sole
result of Armenians' imagination.

We, Armenians, know well the difference between the slaughters
and genocide. You know it too. But you continue presenting this
issue in a way as if looking at it 'from the other side.' If it
is so, try to look at the Holocaust from the 'side of Nazis.'
Will you dare? Of course, not. Because, there is no 'the other
side', as is the case with Armenians. Either you are
demonstrating an unprofessional approach or you add to the
propaganda of the USA, which makes possible the removal of
exhibits, related to Armenian genocide, from the Los
Angeles-based Museum of Tolerance, or you are continuing the
denial of the Armenian genocide 'because of nationals security reasons.'

In a response letter, Emil Danielian, an editor of the Armenian
service of the RFE/RL, described it as 'a slander,' not worth
the RFE/RL's attention. He noted that the report in question was
provided to RFE/RL by Agence France Press, adding that 'no news
agency is entitled to amend or edit a report, received from
another agency.' Then, reminding that the RFE/RL website is
visited by thousands of people and their radio reports are also
listened to by thousands of people, he advises Sinanian to look
at how the RFE/RL reported about April 24.'We do not need
lessons in moral, especially from narrow-minded people,' Emil
Danielian concluded.

But it appears that the way how the RFE/RL reported about April
24 commemoration of the Genocide victims was also insulting for
Armenians, as it forced Zareh Sinanian to dispatch another
letter to Danielian, in which he says: 'It is you who needs
moral lessons. You again hide yourselves behind a report of
another agency in order to express your position. Genocide
commemoration in Yerevan you confront to the angry reaction of
Turkey to unveiling a monument to Armenian composer Komitas in
Paris, yielding once again to their supporters and their lies.
You explanations to this effect are not at all appropriate. You
selected purposely (like last April 22) a report, which is of a
denial nature. If you reprint or broadcast such 'garbage,' it
becomes yours too. There is fear and meanness, hidden behind
your position to present also the other, denialist, side of the
question. You must either accept the fact of genocide openly or
deny it. There is no middle way.

I understand that your welfare depends on your work, but there
are some other things in this world, which do not sell. Do not
allow you to be involved into the crimes of others. Their
interests are diametrically opposed to ours. The Armenian
society is already realizing who and what 'dark forces' are
behind the RFE/RL. Their policy is not only anti-Armenian but
also anti-human. There is not a bit of freedom in their service.
Shame on you that you continue the job started by the Ottoman
Empire,' by these words Sinanian ends his letter.

__________________________________________________ __

THOMAS A. DINE is president of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc. During his tenure, new broadcasts were launched in Arabic to Iraq, in Persian to Iran, in Albanian to Kosovo, Serbia, in Russian to Latvia, in Macedonian to Macedonia, in Dari and Pashto to Afghanistan, in Avar, Circassian and Chechen to the North Caucasus, and broadcasting to Central Asian and Persian Gulf countries expanded by one third. RFE/RL now broadcasts more than 1000 hours a week from Prague. Prior to assuming his current position, Dine served as the assistant administrator for Europe and the New Independent States of the U.S. Agency for International Development. Earlier he headed the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) from 1980 through June 1993. In the decade of the 1970s, he worked in a variety of professional staff positions in the U.S. Senate and the American Embassy in New Delhi....

Earlier he headed the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)

Earlier he headed the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)

Earlier he headed the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)

http://www.regionalanalysis.org/specialreports/specialreports/en/2003/04/dine.asp

[xBaron Dants]

Alright then, go read a1plus.am.

I read news from both sides, as well as from independant observers, and attacking peaceful demonstrators and journalists is still not acceptable.

[A.R.]

If you go through my past posts, I had repeatedly stated that Armenia needs stability, and that I don't trust Aram Sargsyan/Artashes Geghamian any more than I trust Kocharian. But what Kocharian's clan did today was disgusting.




AR
Do you mean "Kocharian Clan" or "Karabakh Clan"? What Kocharian did today was stop a coup,they were planing a "Revolution Of Roses" like Georgia and we all know that Soros and the US Goverment was behind that so called
"revolution"... This is what happens when you take the law into your own hands...







Attacking journalists and peaceful protesters? If we are going to accept a dictatorship for the sake of stability, we are DOOMED.



AR
Those "peacefull" protesters were plotting a coup... A dictatorship?
Cmon now, any goverment would have done the same thing, you should
have seen what the DC police did to the IMF protestors last year it makes what happend in Armenia childs play...



Just because he won a (rigged) election doesn't mean he has the right to erase freedom of expression and freedom of the press off the constitution.



AR
So you are telling me that Dermichyan beat Kocharyan?





Even if there is no revolution, I'm hoping the authorities will WAKE UP, and wake up soon. Our country deserves better.



AR
Deservers better but who? Who??? Kocharian is our President whether you like it or not until 2008....



Kind Regards

A.R.

[Anonymouse]

That Turkic stock President Kocharian is a disgrace. Someone needs to destroy that fool and cut his nads. What is this totalitarianism? When a government is not healthy it has to be overthrown, and the forefathers of America knew that well. Any government that engages in desperates attempts at holding power is a government that has to go.

[xBaron Dants]

No, Demirchyan didn't win. The election was still rigged and undemocratic.

The "peaceful" protesters were probably jobless men and women who still can not make ends meet, while Kocharian and all are buying new Benzes for the whole family. They were out there out of frustration, caused by the government's inactivity and indifference. And what was the government's answer? Beating them up.

Yes, it is the transition from communism, and yes, it will take time. But let me tell you that it would go a lot faster if the ministers were not eating public funds, while the monthly pension is what? 3000 drams?

The protestors had not attempted anything to my knowledge. Had they tried to take over, then restraining them would be reasonable, as this obviously does not have general public support. However, going in the crowd and indiscriminately beating up anybody in sight is wrong. And still no answer on your part about the beating of journalists...

[Anonymouse]

Anyway this thread, more than anything dealt with the cultura/ethnographical aspects of Armenian culture, and the gradual decay of it. The only solution for the long-term is for the bulk of the Armenians from the diaspora to return to Armenia but that won't happen, so...

[A.R.]

Alright then, go read a1plus.am.


AR
Enger, A1+ is the biggest sh_t rag on the planet, you know they had the nerve to call what happend yesterday a "massacre" now I was very insulted by that, what happed in Baku to Armenians was a massacre, what happed in Sumgait was a massacre!



I read news from both sides, as well as from independant observers


AR
So do I and my nose is so trained I can sniff out propaganda in heartbeat..



and attacking peaceful demonstrators and journalists is still not acceptable



AR
Is a coup acceptable?


4,000 USD OFFERED FOR ORGANIZING ARMED PROVOCATION IN YEREVAN

YEREVAN, APRIL 12. ARMINFO. Gevorg Mesrobyan and Artur Mangasarov were offered 4,000 USD for organizing an armed provocation during the opposition's procession to the presidential residence on April 12.

According to the record of interrogation conducted by the RA Prosecutor General's office and demonstrated by Armenia's Public Television, the suspects were to shoot into the air to create panic among the demonstrators. The Investigation ascertained that the detainees, who has a cellular telephone, made four calls to the Parliament member of the "Justice" bloc Sambat Aivazyan. The detainees testifies that they met with Aivazyan after coming from Moscow on April 6. During the meeting they received two "Makarov" pistols. The detainees pointed out that they agreed to do that for money. The Investigation is currently specifying the version of attempt on the life of one of the rally organizers. In his earlier interview to ARMINFO Smbat Aivazyan stated that interrogation record is absurd and "does not correspond to the facts."

Gevorg Mesrobyan and Artur Mangasarov have been charged with terrorism and unlawful possession of arms.

[xBaron Dants]

I read about that. Did you read about the thugs the government had hired in order to create ruckus and throw eggs at Geghamian while he was making a speech?

The reason why I read a1plus is because anything government-approved is always pro-government.

The conclusion to which I have arrived is: Neither the government now nor the opposition are worthy of being in power. I am still waiting for the right alternative. Maybe Raffi Hovanissian in the 2008 elections....?

[A.R.]

No, Demirchyan didn't win. The election was still rigged and undemocratic.



AR
Now listen someone won, ok? If Dermichyan did`nt win than Kocharian won,
if Kocharian did`nt win then Dirmichyan won, you can`t have it both ways..




The "peaceful" protesters were probably jobless men and women who still can not make ends meet, while Kocharian and all are buying new Benzes for the whole family. They were out there out of frustration, caused by the government's inactivity and indifference. And what was the government's answer? Beating them up.



AR
4,000 USD OFFERED FOR ORGANIZING ARMED PROVOCATION IN YEREVAN

YEREVAN, APRIL 12. ARMINFO. Gevorg Mesrobyan and Artur Mangasarov were offered 4,000 USD for organizing an armed provocation during the opposition's procession to the presidential residence on April 12.

According to the record of interrogation conducted by the RA Prosecutor General's office and demonstrated by Armenia's Public Television, the suspects were to shoot into the air to create panic among the demonstrators. The Investigation ascertained that the detainees, who has a cellular telephone, made four calls to the Parliament member of the "Justice" bloc Sambat Aivazyan. The detainees testifies that they met with Aivazyan after coming from Moscow on April 6. During the meeting they received two "Makarov" pistols. The detainees pointed out that they agreed to do that for money. The Investigation is currently specifying the version of attempt on the life of one of the rally organizers. In his earlier interview to ARMINFO Smbat Aivazyan stated that interrogation record is absurd and "does not correspond to the facts."

Gevorg Mesrobyan and Artur Mangasarov have been charged with terrorism and unlawful possession of arms.





Yes, it is the transition from communism, and yes, it will take time. But let me tell you that it would go a lot faster if the ministers were not eating public funds, while the monthly pension is what? 3000 drams?



AR
I agree with you!



The protestors had not attempted anything to my knowledge. Had they tried to take over, then restraining them would be reasonable, as this obviously does not have general public support. However, going in the crowd and indiscriminately beating up anybody in sight is wrong. And still no answer on your part about the beating of journalists...



AR
You break the law you get hurt we will protect the national security of Armenia... I condemn all attacks on Journalists, happy now?

[Anonymouse]

It appears that A.R. is a socialist.

[Anonymouse]

They'd kill Raffi before he made it to the podium.

[xBaron Dants]

happy now?

No. I'll only be happy when we have a good government. :)

And just because Kocharian won (which I believe he did) still doesn't mean that we have to forget about the vote-rigging.

As for "breaking the law, you will get hurt", the protestors' actions did not deserve such harsh reprisal.

[Anonymouse]

Protesting and ultimately overthrowing a government is the natural right of all peoples. People don't exist to serve the government, theoretically speaking. Governments were erected to supposedly serve the people.

[A.R.]

Raffi Hovannessian in 2008



AR
No,no,no, he is from the old authorties of Armenia,how bout Vartan Oskanian or Vaan Ovanesyan? Oskanian is syrian born like my family HALAB but just because he is Syrian born don`t mean sh-it cause gabig LTP was also syrian born.

[Anonymouse]

Speaking of keeping threads civil, let's please keep this on-topic shall we? Thanks in advance.

[xBaron Dants]

Come on people....I'm feeling like Kocharian here, censoring all of you. :)

I don't know what has happened between you guys on other forums, and I don't really care. Stick to the topic. Neither Satanism nor Zionism was being discussed in this thread.

As for Oskanian, I've been the biggest Oskanian supporter, and I think he would make a great president. I just don't see him running for it, and I also don't think he has enough popular support, which is too bad.

I'd be very willing to have Raffi H. in government too.

[Darorinag]

Baron, thanks for the clean-up... sorry about that.. just wanted to make sure nothing of the name-calling happened here. anyway. :cool:

Who is Raffi H.? Sorry, I've no idea... this is what I'm talking about. How am I supposed to know who he is? Is there a biography of him floating around or something? :confused:

[xBaron Dants]

Raffi Hovanissian is the first Foreign Affairs Minister of Armenia. He is now the head of some sort of think tank. He is US born and raised, and seems to be the most trusted person when it comes to wiping out corruption. He was barred from running in the last elections because he did not have armenian citizenship for 10 years.

[dstyle]

His dads Richard Hovanessian of UCLA. ya

[A.R.]

His dads Richard Hovanessian of UCLA. ya




AR
You dad is a great Armenian and he has done so much for the Armenian cause...

[Anonymouse]

His dads Richard Hovanessian of UCLA. ya

Was my professor last quarter. Really an intelligent man. The pleasure was all mine.

[dstyle]

While I agree the govt. needs to be changed, I don't see how those in the "Opposition" would not do the same as Kocharian is doing now.

[xBaron Dants]

While I agree the govt. needs to be changed, I don't see how those in the "Opposition" would not do the same as Kocharian is doing now.

Alright...here is Baron Dants's opinion, after having somewhat calmed down about what happened yesterday.

The opposition is a bloody joke.
They talk about corruption, but forget that Aram Sarkisian is one of the most corrupt men ever.
They talk about change, but refuse to show up to Parliament.
They talk about how the diaspora is only used as a milking cow, but they call Vartan Oskanian a foreigner.
They talk about how the whole population supports them, but they only gather 10-15 thousand at their MAIN protest.
They talk about honest elections, but Geghamian was actually claiming that HE was the rightful winner of the presidential elections (not even Demirchian) and how there would be bloodshed and a revolution if power was not granted to him.

What I was hoping was that these demonstrations would send Kocharian a wake-up call. I did not think the opposition had enough support nor credibility to actually force a change of government. And 10-15 000 also was not enough people. Heck, I didn't even want the opposition to succeed.
What I wanted was for Kocharian to realize that there are 10-15 THOUSAND people unhappy with him, and telling him that right in front of his face. I wanted the government to realize that the corruption was not going unnoticed, and that rigged elections, no matter who the rightful winner would have been, are not acceptable.

It didn't happen. Kocharian responded with violence. And he didn't do so to prevent a coup...there was going to be no coup, let's not kid ourselves. The crowd was neither big enough, nor violent.

I'm just waiting for 2008...

[TigranJamharian]

Yes Vrouyr. Absolutely.

but here again is mr. oskanyan overeacting and talking big when he should be ashamed of what kocharian did.
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=692583&PageNum=0


i have like you come to the realization that the opposition is only "looking for its chance at the feeding through" as Kim Iskanyan puts it. We need someone new. I personally like Baghdasarian. Young, popular, seems keen on defending democratic principles which i think he honestly believes in. I am looking forward to this guy becoming president in 2008 unless Kocharian somehow manages to change the constitution and declare himself supreme dictator of Armenia by that time. Lets hope he has no such intentions, lets hope he is cracking down because he feels threatened. Let us hope Armenia will progress to a working democracy and not turn into the next azerbaijan or god forbid even something like Turkmenistan.

We can only hope and pray right now. Everything is in Kocharian's hands. Lets hope he is not a fool, which i dont think he is.

btw. give this article a read everyone. http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/4/1919C3F9-7A63-4E12-869F-9110554DF12C.html

[dusken]

What are the requirements that qualify an individual for political offices in Hyeastan? Would a spyurkahye be able to hold offices?

[TigranJamharian]

For parliament you must prove that you have been in the country for the past 5 years. And for president you must prove you have been in the country for 10. And of course citizenship.

[xBaron Dants]

Well, Oskanian condemned the attacks on the journalists, and blamed BOTH the authorities and the opposition for the violence.

And this was off a1plus.am, who hates anything done by ministers usually.

Also, don't overlook the fact that he is the FM. He has to worry about the country's appearance on the world stage. If the USA starts circulating rumors about total carnage in Armenia, and Oskanian does not set the record straight, he wouldn't be doing his job.

As for Baghdassarian, I had spoken about him earlier in the year. He does seem like a very good man. Baghdassarian, Oskanian and Hovanissian are people that I would definitely like to have in the next government.

[xBaron Dants]

What are the requirements that qualify an individual for political offices in Hyeastan? Would a spyurkahye be able to hold offices?

Raffi Hovanissan, past FM, and Vartan Osganian, present FM are both spurkahyes. I'm not even sure if Raffi H. had armenian citizenship back then. So was Jirair Libaridian, advisor to Ter-Petrosyan, who himself was born in Syria, but whose family had "nerkaghtadz" ever since he was 2 years old or so.

[TigranJamharian]

[QUOTE=Baron Dants]

As for Baghdassarian, I had spoken about him earlier in the year. [QUOTE]

i am honestly jealous. how did you get the opportunity?

[dstyle]

Man we need that one person that unites everyone, like a haig nahabed, like a sasountzi tavit. I get chills thinking of what our nation can become, yet get so depressed seeing what it is.

[xBaron Dants]

[QUOTE=Baron Dants]

As for Baghdassarian, I had spoken about him earlier in the year. [QUOTE]

i am honestly jealous. how did you get the opportunity?

I had spoken ABOUT him. Not TO him. :)

[TigranJamharian]

haha. oh man i read so quickly. that would be really cool if i got a chance to talk to someone like that though

and dstyle jan i feel exactly the same.

[xBaron Dants]

Next time I go to Armenia (probably 2005), I'll DEFINITELY get my uncle to arrange a meeting for me with Vartan Oskanian. I was kinda disappointed that I didn't get to meet him last summer. Oh well.

As for the one man to unite them all. It won't happen, and it's not even necessary. We NEED an opposition. The only problem is, neither the authorities nor the opposition have anybody's trust. For what I care, government and opposition can disagree on every bloody subject. As long as they follow democratic procedures and actually make their decisions in parliament in a respectful and orderly way, we will be very well off already..

[Anonymouse]

You know Richard Hovannisian said something wise before closing his last lecture last quarter. He said essentially that the leaders in Armenia haven't realized that if they eat, to at least give some to the people. Notice he didn't say to stop eating, since he knows whoever sits on the throne will eat. This was after we talked about Armenia's independence, the diaspora, and the demographic decline.

[dusken]

Out of curiosity, what class was this?

[Anonymouse]

History of the Armenian peoples from from 15th century to modern times.

[xBaron Dants]

You know Richard Hovannisian said something wise before closing his last lecture last quarter. He said essentially that the leaders in Armenia haven't realized that if they eat, to at least give some to the people. Notice he didn't say to stop eating, since he knows whoever sits on the throne will eat. This was after we talked about Armenia's independence, the diaspora, and the demographic decline.

Yeah, I've heard that often from other people too.
Maybe that's why Vazken Sarkisian was appreciated. He was by no means not corrupt, but he did seem to do positive things for the people.