Poverty in Armenia.

[Genuine_Stud]

Ok. I went to Armenia about 5 years ago and I traveled there with a bunch of friends. I don't know how the country is now, but back then.... there was a bunch of people begging for money at almost every other corner we turned. One of my friends seemed as if he had a dollar sign written across his forehead, because they always ended up coming to him and asking for money.

Sometimes the same people would walk up after about 4 days and ask you again as if $30 wouldn't last that long in Armenia. I mean, it's a very good thing to help the needy when you can, but after about a week it got really annoying to the point where the trip started to become less enjoyable, because SO MANY people come and ask.

I wish there was a way so that less and less of our people in Armenia didn't have to beg for money anymore, not because of the fact of them asking us and annoying us, but for the betterment of our people and our country.

My question is, what's your take on this type of situation?
What's your take on poverty in general and how you think we can improve it in Armenia?

[Ducati]

I went there 3 years ago when I was 13, don't remember much, but the good times and a few beggers here and there. Like I said I was 13 and alone and i dont remeber much. I stayed in a small apartment. Not to shabby. But it sure could use some improvment. When I went I had to conserve water, because they had a gay system of you only get a certain amout of water a day. But not bad for a months vacation for a 13 year old to walk around yerevan alone. I'm sure if I went today my perspective would be different than back then. I plan to take my girlfriend there sometimes this summer.

[patlajan]

The country itself is not making money so there's less money to go around. Since it is a small country they can specialize the economy in something profitable. If they take all their foreign aid money and have GE build a state of the art powerplant for them, they can sell energy to the region. Maybe that will persuade the builders of that oil pipeline to build in Armenia.

That being said, nothing will work in a state mired with corruption.

[Anonymouse]

The situation is pretty much, sadly prevalent in alot of the former Soviet Republics. After 70 years of State welfarism, what does one expect? Socialism breeds poverty, slacking, corruption. When you are constantly taught how "business is wrong and unethical" and "making money is wrong", but somehow becoming a "selfless public servant" is a worthy thing, what do you expect? It's going to take a long time for this to change.

As Mises said, "As far as there is unhampered capitalism, there is no longer any question of poverty in the sense in which this term is applied to the conditions of a noncapitalistic society. The increase in population figures does not create supernumerary mouths, but additional hands whose employment produces additional wealth.

Within the frame of capitalism the notion of poverty refers only to those people who are unable to take care of themselves. Even if we disregard the case of children, we must realize that there will always be such unemployables."

[angelik22]

yes, as the rich gets righer and fils their pockets, the poor gets even "poorer"... it's jsut a mess in Armenia, people do't even get enough money (when they work) to support a family on a regular basis--depending on what they do... the government is just messed up- well its not really a government, its like Armenia is headed by a stupid MOB of some sort... haha and Bush is trying to bring democracy to where? oy yeah Iraq, but where is he when other countries need help also? i guess Armenia doesnt have enough oil for him.... besides not like American democracy is any better... just look at all the problems we have here...the root of it being a nimwit president

[Anonymouse]

By the way, this thread belongs in Armenian News or Politics forum.

[Genuine_Stud]

By the way, this thread belongs in Armenian News or Politics forum.

Not really homie.

Because poverty isn't new news or news in itself. It's a situation.

Additionally, there is no mention of politics or political affiliations.

My original question was what's your take on poverty in Armenia and we can improve it?

EDIT: Never mind... I guess it's too late. :(

[Tres Bien]

to educate people, in every aspect , at every social institution there is, get through so that people will get more educated, more efficiant, educate the lazy gjughatsis, create more jobs...
stop to sell out public property and national heritage, so that the profit doesnt go to the pockets of indivuduals but will be beneficial for the hole nation.

[Crimson Glow]

Bush is trying to bring democracy to where? oy yeah Iraq, but where is he when other countries need help also? i guess Armenia doesnt have enough oil for him

There's a tad bit more involved than Armenia not having oil to gain America's attention and help. There's that whole Turkey being one of the only Muslim allies of America, and they wouldn't take too kindly to the US helping Armenia, now would they?

[Anonymouse]

Not really homie.

Because poverty isn't new news or news in itself. It's a situation.

Additionally, there is no mention of politics or political affiliations.

My original question was what's your take on poverty in Armenia and we can improve it?

EDIT: Never mind... I guess it's too late. :(

We have separate forums for everything directly Armenian related. Therefore it goes in here. I think the there should be more of a general Armenian Anything forum instead of news, since news can go under Politics, or Armenian Issues.

[HyeJinx1984]

My feeling is that what Armenia really needs is a strong industry that everyone from the upper class corporate people as well as the regular citizens can profit from. However... what industry can that be?

[MadHandle]

Armenia is currupt...bottom line. People with authority make all the money and the "unimportant' people are left begging for money. Plus, everything there is expensive...if your not a tourist(everything is lot cheaper for tourists with US incomes), and also people living there don't make enough money, thats gettin' looked over. When I was living there(6 years ago) doctors got payed 50-100$ US dollars a month and half the time they didn't even pay it on time. Now if 50-100$ is not enough for a doctor, what you think people with lower class jobs get?

Like I said everything there is currupt...thats right everything. You wanna go to the best college, then pay the guy in charge enough money...and your basically in or it helps to get you in. If you don't wanna go to the army when your 18, again, pay the people in charge money and they will give you a safe and comfortable position for your 2 years of military service. A cop pulls you over, half the time for no reason...other then that their wallets are empty(can't blame them though), you again pay them about 5000 drams and your good to go.

If you think poverty was high 5 years ago, then you should of been there when Armenia was at war with Azerbenjan. I mean people were sluggin' trees from parks to heat their houses, people makin money off illegal electrical connections, etc...that was the real poverty...I don't know about now though, I'm guessing its better then before.

When I was walkin' throught metro stations or whatever and see people begging for money...right, people just told me not to feel sorry for them cuz I would end up the same way, so you did what you did and ignore them. No one got annoyed....but if I go back soon then I'ma whip out whatever change I got in my wallet and give them somethin...and some just use the money to buy vodka, get drunk and sleep in the middle of the street...literally, ignore them.

[Anonymouse]

Armenia is currupt...bottom line. People with authority make all the money and the "unimportant' people are left begging for money. Plus, everything there is expensive...if your not a tourist(everything is lot cheaper for tourists with US incomes), and also people living there don't make enough money, thats gettin' looked over. When I was living there(6 years ago) doctors got payed 50-100$ US dollars a month and half the time they didn't even pay it on time. Now if 50-100$ is not enough for a doctor, what you think people with lower class jobs get?

Like I said everything there is currupt...thats right everything. You wanna go to the best college, then pay the guy in charge enough money...and your basically in or it helps to get you in. If you don't wanna go to the army when your 18, again, pay the people in charge money and they will give you a safe and comfortable position for your 2 years of military service. A cop pulls you over, half the time for no reason...other then that their wallets are empty(can't blame them though), you again pay them about 5000 drams and your good to go.

If you think poverty was high 5 years ago, then you should of been there when Armenia was at war with Azerbenjan. I mean people were sluggin' trees from parks to heat their houses, people makin money off illegal electrical connections, etc...that was the real poverty...I don't know about now though, I'm guessing its better then before.

When I was walkin' throught metro stations or whatever and see people begging for money...right, people just told me not to feel sorry for them cuz I would end up the same way, so you did what you did and ignore them. No one got annoyed....but if I go back soon then I'ma whip out whatever change I got in my wallet and give them somethin...and some just use the money to buy vodka, get drunk and sleep in the middle of the street...literally, ignore them.

War always has a tendency to destroy and create havoc and struggle. It is not a pretty thing, and who benefited in the end? Statists.

[jgm1975]

Armenians (and Russians for that matter) never had a democratic tradition. Sure there was a brief period of independence from 1918 to 1920 but that is nothing. Armenians have either lived under Imperial rule (Ottoman, Byzantine, Soviet) or under a monarchy. 1991 was really the beginning of Armenian democracy. By contrast, it took decades for Britain to move away from absolute monarchy, while France's first experience with democracy in 1789 resulted in the dictatorship of Napoleon and the restoration of monarchy. True democracy in France never came until 1871. And the US has been a democracy since the 18th century. All this to say that it will probably take a few decades before a real democracy with true rule of law is in place in Armenia, which is why we have all those corruption problems leading to severe poverty which resulted in a mass exodus (estimates are that almost 1,000,000 Armenians left Armenia since independence), although the migration issue seems to be getting better.

[JohnCanadian]

:( I went to Armenia a few years ago and it was very disturbing I actually got upset with the poverty, dysfunction and the destruction the Soviet Union had on a beautiful country like Armenia. I had little kids start following me I got scared to say the least. In Canada we have poverty but nothing like this fortunately.

Armenia will get back on its feet it will take a long long time, but im sure Armenia has the strength and the gratefulness to become a prosperous country. I would like to go back to Armenia but I have to wait for my EU and Canadian Passport to come through which will take 2 years:mad:

Its a shame that Armenia is so desperately poor but I love the people they are angels.

[Pazooki]

Read the rules.

Someone lock this thread.

Btw John you sound too into Armenia when your clearly Canadian.

Why is that?

[JohnCanadian]

Read the rules.

Someone lock this thread.

Btw John you sound too into Armenia when your clearly Canadian.

Why is that?

Its because my family know a lot of Armenians, I was brought up around the Armenian culture. But I am Canadian born but my parents are Italian. I used to live in Armenia for a 4 years, I was working there as a Aid Worker. My parents worked in Armenia for 7 years doing Law Courts stuff and Investment stuff

I hope Im not being too much of a problem

[kujirasan]

I do wish the poverty issue is handled by the Armenian Community in a responsible manner, and in well organised way that eliminates abuse and misuse, the situation here is treated as it is a joke, I was in Dubai and came across large number of Armenian women, who worked as prostitutes, they openly told me about harsh life back home, as well they pointed out that there be even large number working in Turkey, for centuries you people have longed for a homeland and home rule, now that you got it, surely you can do better than this, given that 9 million of you lives out side the country and have reasonable income, it is time that well educate Leaders in Diaspora seize the initiative, and take the reins from the ex soviet hacks, aprachiks, and odd few peasants from the former collective farms and restore the dignity that Armenians deserve, lost in the century of Islamo Turkish mire.

[Armanen]

Deal with the poverty issue in turkey or wherever the hell you're from and let Armenians worry about their nation.

[KanadaHye]

The problem is capitalism and greed. Anytime there is money put into the country, its for government infrastructure and tourism. Armenia needs local businesses and industry that work in favour of the people. As far as natural resources go, Armenia does have deposits of copper, gold, silver, zinc, marble, granite. There is also said to be oil and natural gas deposits however it's too costly to exploit due to the mountainous terrain. How much of the profits from mining end up in the pockets of the people? Little to none since foreign workers and investors are the ones profiting. Armenian needs an ultra conservative government that works for the benefit of the people, promoting growth and wealth by bringing business into the country. Right now the government is just making a quick buck by selling out.

[JohnCanadian]

I think its very sad that a former Soviet Country like Armenia fails to deliver and provide the level living standards, and opportunities for the Armenian population. One day that might change but it doesn't look like anything is going to happen positively in a long time.

How much is the minimum wage a month there?

Amazing loads of people are abroad that equate to more the population of Armenia. That must undoubtedly hurt the industry hard. We have a lot of Armenians in Canada and the EU - more there than Canada for obvious reasons.

Its a shame that young Armenian girls or women have to prostitute themselves, but at least they are making more money and can afford to provide for themselves.

It doesn't seem the Armenian government is doing much to bring back the much needed labor or even trying to lift the living standards in the former Soviet Country.

[III888]

Now that is a lot of brass air fittings http://www.liangdianup.com/subpages/airfitting_1.htm there is just about every type
of air fitting that you could want. Wholesale prices too. I guess these could be used as small water pipe fitting also. I
used some of the parts to make my babington wvo bu

[JohnCanadian]

This is an overview of American aid given to Armenia since 1992. The website shows a collection of programmes and other USAID related resources dedicated to Armenia building a viable economy and at peace with its neighbors.

http://armenia.usaid.gov/

[gegev]

I think its very sad that a former Soviet Country like Armenia fails to deliver and provide the level living standards, and opportunities for the Armenian population. One day that might change but it doesn't look like anything is going to happen positively in a long time.

How much is the minimum wage a month there?

Amazing loads of people are abroad that equate to more the population of Armenia. That must undoubtedly hurt the industry hard. We have a lot of Armenians in Canada and the EU - more there than Canada for obvious reasons.

Its a shame that young Armenian girls or women have to prostitute themselves, but at least they are making more money and can afford to provide for themselves.

It doesn't seem the Armenian government is doing much to bring back the much needed labor or even trying to lift the living standards in the former Soviet Country.

John I live in Armenia.

The worldwide economic crisis doesn’t affect very much Armenia, I don’t know how rich you are but most of Armenians here are not poor, although the economic situation is affected by the crisis. If you visit Armenia you will see how distant your thoughts are from reality. Last year most significant donations have been made by Armenian residents to All Armenian Fund, as opposed to the past, and the medium and small size donations have been increased as well. But we all appreciate our Diaspora fellow Armenians contribution to All Armenian assistance fund especially the ones made during the period 1991-2006 Armenian economic collapse.

In addition note please that the non Armenian origin prostitutes abroad have their Labor Unions, but Armenians have not that much prospered in the area, therefore they don’t have the Union yet. It means that you would better talk about the organized ones.

Please don’t cry for poor Armenia residents and prostitutes, no need. The other nations, with bigger problems in the area, always conceal them, but alas we advertise our small one.

Small one deserves small talk.

Let’s talk about worldwide unemployment and who can do what for the fellow Armenians in Armenia and abroad.

Please come and see Armenia, now you can’t see much NGO/PVO activity here; the times had passed and therefore you moved out.

Regards,

Gegev

[JohnCanadian]

John I live in Armenia.

The worldwide economic crisis doesn’t affect very much Armenia, I don’t know how rich you are but most of Armenians here are not poor, although the economic situation is affected by the crisis. If you visit Armenia you will see how distant your thoughts are from reality. Last year most significant donations have been made by Armenian residents to All Armenian Fund, as opposed to the past, and the medium and small size donations have been increased as well. But we all appreciate our Diaspora fellow Armenians contribution to All Armenian assistance fund especially the ones made during the period 1991-2006 Armenian economic collapse.

In addition note please that the non Armenian origin prostitutes abroad have their Labor Unions, but Armenians have not that much prospered in the area, therefore they don’t have the Union yet. It means that you would better talk about the organized ones.

Please don’t cry for poor Armenia residents and prostitutes, no need. The other nations, with bigger problems in the area, always conceal them, but alas we advertise our small one.

Small one deserves small talk.

Let’s talk about worldwide unemployment and who can do what for the fellow Armenians in Armenia and abroad.

Please come and see Armenia, now you can’t see much NGO/PVO activity here; the times had passed and therefore you moved out.

Regards,

Gegev

Actually I have been to Armenia lots of times and I used to live there for some years and I do disagree with you most Armenians being not poor that is not true I encountered very severe poverty after the other there. Im telling you know based on Western (EU Citizen and Canadian) experience that Armenia has poverty that you would not see in the Western (EU, Canada) world. The collapse of the Soviet Union has devastated all of the former Soviet Republics (especially the poorest country in Europe - Moldova). Yes I have seen some small signs of improvement. Armenia has quite a lot of NGO activity especially from the EU and US. I happen to know some mates who worked in Armenia as NGO workers (now moved on with their careers) as little as last year who said it is a bad sight there.

So dont criticize me as me having small talk. Armenia has very high unemployment the elderly in Armenia are living on the edge of survival in terms of financial means where the average wage there is under 200 Euros a month the pensions in Armenia are even lower likely to be under 100 Euros a month.

My mom is owns a Law Firm and she was doing business in Armenia and she had many problems with the Armenian way of doing business it was very underdeveloped way of conducting business something that the Western World where my mom comes from (EU) is very different than the way of doing business in Armenia. My dad is an Investment Banker who also had a lot of problems as well. He was going involve Armenia in some Investment Projects (out of interest) but cancelled it so he moved to the EU (Netherlands) and was involved in high profile projects. It was successful.

Im not crying for Armenia you are very wrong I was concerned for its deep poverty . My thoughts are not distance from reality thats the truth for Armenia whether you like it or not. I have my own views on this country and I am not going to change it just because I disagree from your view Gegev.

The life I have lived in the Western World (EU and Canada) is very different from the Former Soviet times of living and today still in Armenia. Despite Armenia making small steps to improve their living standards etc Armenia has an awful long way to go to get to the medium standard of living.

[kujirasan]

Gegev,
Suffering from Ostrich syndrome can be cured by looking the reality in the face, I cam across first hand, I was asked to assist with Assyrian refugees due to crises in Iraq, news came that women were forced in prostitution, so I headed for Dubai,
I was told by few women they met and Assyrian speaking women by name of SHUSHANA , and she told them of her situation, we managed to find the Armenian pimps and after delivering a decent thrashing to the pimps, located the woman, she was born in Assyrian village but was ethnic Armenian, and spoke fluent Assyrian,
she gave the figure at around 4000, and 40000 in Turkey!
I haven't come across Assyrians who speak Armenian, but among the Iraqi, there large number of mixed marriage and none of the children identified with GHARPETS and KHACHATURS etc, then I headed for Armenia as I was ask to asses the situation and report to elders , and see if situation was serious, there we decided to move to the vulnerable one to the Krasnodar in those village population was 30% mix but once again most children from mixed marriage refused to speak Armenia when engaged in conversation, in Iraq it was Armenia men that had married Assyrian women, and few that question, told me they are reliable not party girls like Armenian ones! in Armenia it was the Armenian women that had married Assyrian men, and the women told me that Armenian men usually are drunks dissolute and gamblers ! Don't bring money home!
In those villages on Sunday in the church service the majority were Armenian, they would come from near by villages , because they had no church in their own villages, what a joke for a Nation that was first to t adopt Christianity as State Religion.
Given that you are around 10 million, and mostly in the Western countries, it is nothing short of disgrace to see this happening! And defending with the Goebbelsian ethos.
I manage to question few of the leading lights of diaspora, and they told me that money is sent, ends up being pocketed , for example, Australian Armenian , annually send 60 Million US Dollars!
In 1914 , Russian trained around 50 000 Armenian irregulars in KHOI in Iran, just off the border from present day Armenia,
However it was the Assyrians that destroyed 3 Ottoman divisions and captured the 9th Army intact! Not to mention that half a million of you people poured across the border into Urmiah, and were housed and fed and taken care of by the Assyrians, with most of the women being raped and giving birth around the clock!

Now listen, you have to take good look at your self and the people running you racket there, and do some hard work and get to a level that the Nation deserves! There is no point having odd millionaires in California or Canada, while the Mother country is a wreck!
Assyrians are 2 million with large portion becoming refugees, from Soviet Union ,and Iraq,as well Syria, we don't have one Millionaire , but just very humble people with no Government and no organization managed to care and re build with 4 churches in Russia, in Krsanodar Moscow and Rostov and Vinitsa! and two Schools! Not one cent from UN or other agency, not one cent!
So get off your arse!

[hipeter924]

Poverty exists everywhere save Singapore. But some countries handle it better than others. The reason Armenia is in poverty is due to it not investing enough in information technology and scientific institutions, or thinking seriously and effectively enough on how it can catch up with the EU and the rest of the world.

If you can't trade much by goods much it would make more sense for Armenia to go into area's that can be done over the internet or with the materials at hand aka manufacturing high quality goods.

I often but forward Singapore as a good model for developing nations as it actually did come from poverty to massive prosperity with little natural resources of its own.

[gegev]

Kosht@ cari dardn a latsum.

I see, alas, unemployment and poverty worldwide is too high!



John I live in Armenia.

The worldwide economic crisis doesn’t affect very much Armenia, I don’t know how rich you are but most of Armenians here are not poor, although the economic situation is affected by the crisis. If you visit Armenia you will see how distant your thoughts are from reality. Last year most significant donations have been made by Armenian residents to All Armenian Fund, as opposed to the past, and the medium and small size donations have been increased as well. But we all appreciate our Diaspora fellow Armenians contribution to All Armenian assistance fund especially the ones made during the period 1991-2006 Armenian economic collapse.

In addition note please that the non Armenian origin prostitutes abroad have their Labor Unions, but Armenians have not that much prospered in the area, therefore they don’t have the Union yet. It means that you would better talk about the organized ones.

Please don’t cry for poor Armenia residents and prostitutes, no need. The other nations, with bigger problems in the area, always conceal them, but alas you are trying advertise our small ones.

Small ones deserve small talks.

Let’s talk about worldwide unemployment and who can do what for the fellow Armenians in Armenia and abroad.

Please come and see Armenia, now you can’t see much NGO/PVO activity here; the times had passed and therefore you moved out.

Regards,

Gegev

When I cry for the poor, I'm becoming rich in no time.

Gegev

[Haykakan]

Gegev,
Suffering from Ostrich syndrome can be cured by looking the reality in the face, I cam across first hand, I was asked to assist with Assyrian refugees due to crises in Iraq, new came that women were forced in prostitution so head for Dubai,
I was told by few women they met and Assyrian speaking women by name of SHUSHANA , and she told them of her situation, we managed to find the Armenian pimps and after delivering a decent thrashing to the pimps, located the woman, she was born in Assyrian village, and spoke fluent Assyrian,
she gave the figure at around 4000, and 40000 in Turkey!
I haven't come across Assyrians who speak Armenian, but among the Iraqi, there large number of mixed marriage and none of the children identified with GHARPETS and KHACHATURS etc, then I head for Armenia as I was ask to asses the situation and report to elders see if situation was serious, there we decided to move to the vulnerable one to the Krasnodar in those village population was 30% but once again most children of mix marriage refused to speak Armenia when engaged in conversation, in Iraq it was Armenia men that had married Assyrian women, and few that question, told me they are reliable not party girls! in Armenia it was the Armenian women that had married Assyrian men, and the women told me that Armenian men usually drunks dissolute and gamblers ! Don't bring money home!
In those villages on Sunday in the church service the majority were Armenian, they would come from near by villages , because they had no church in their own villages, this the first Nation that adopted Christianity as State Religion.
Given that you are around 10 million, and mostly in the Western countries, it is nothing short of disgrace to see this happening! And defending with the Goebbelsian ethos.
I manage to question few of the leading lights of diaspora, and they told me that money is send put is pocketed , for example, Australian Armenian , annually send 60 Million US Dollars!
In 1914 , Russian trained around 50 000 Armenian irregulars in KHOI in Iran, just off the border from present day Armenia,
However it was the Assyrians that destroyed 3 Ottoman divisions and capture the 9th Army intact! Not to mention that half a million of you people poured across the border into Urmiah, and were housed and fed and taken care of by the Assyrian, with most of the women raped and giving birth around the clock!

Now listen, you have to take good look at your self and the people running you racket there, and do some hard work and get to a level that the Nation deserves! There is no point having odd millionaires in California or Canada, while the Mother country is a wreck!
Assyrians are 2 million with large portion becoming refugees, from Soviet Union ,and Iraq,as well Syria, we don't have one Millionaire , but just very humble people with no Government and no organization managed to care and re build with 4 churches in Russia, in Krsanodar Moscow and Rostov and Vinitsa! and two Schools! Not one cent from UN or other agency, not one cent!
So get of your arse!

Hey buddy Armenians are among one of the most religious people there are(not that i think it is a particularly a good thing).I am not doughting what you claim or calling you a liar but just because you have seen these things does not mean that this is the norm, remember you are talking about 10 million people and you have seen so few of us.I personally know a lot of assyrians that come to armenian churches regularly and many married armenians. As for Armenia, sure unlike you we do have a small plot of land but that land is surrounded by mortal enemies intent on destroying us and they are blockading us, so there are some good reasons why Armenia has problems and poor leadership may or may not be one of them but it is not nearly as big a factor as being landlocked and blockaded.

[Yedtarts]

JohnCanadian
Are you saying that there are no Canadian prostitutes or poverty in Canada?

[KanadaHye]

JohnCanadian
Are you saying that there are no Canadian prostitutes or poverty in Canada?

No comment :laugh:

[kujirasan]

we are not here disparaging Armenians, you know too well the closeness of the two people and deep affection that our people have for you, therefore it only evokes profound indignation to see this happening to our kiss and kit! to very people that so dear to us, the only people that we have!

[Anoush]

Armenian needs an ultra conservative government that works for the benefit of the people, promoting growth and wealth by bringing business into the country. Right now the government is just making a quick buck by selling out.

Isn't it sad though, true but very sad.

[Haykakan]

You guys gotta be kidding me. The great conservative policies of trickle down economics and derregulation is what got the USA and the rest of the world into a economic xxxxhole and this is what you want for Armenia?

[KanadaHye]

You guys gotta be kidding me. The great conservative policies of trickle down economics and derregulation is what got the USA and the rest of the world into a economic xxxxhole and this is what you want for Armenia?

When it comes to wealth, people need 3 things
-Shelter
-Food
-A functional system to acquire the above

Armenia has the land for agriculture and farming so that shouldn't be an issue. They also have natural resources that hold value for trade. However, many of these resources aren't working in favour of the Armenian citizens. How can people sit on top of gold but not see a dime of it? When it comes to sustaining growth, all that is needed are the basics. That is all the government should be focused on providing while allowing citizens access to the resources so they can build, grow and retain wealth for the country.

[Haykakan]

When it comes to wealth, people need 3 things
-Shelter
-Food
-A functional system to acquire the above

Armenia has the land for agriculture and farming so that shouldn't be an issue. They also have natural resources that hold value for trade. However, many of these resources aren't working in favour of the Armenian citizens. How can people sit on top of gold but not see a dime of it? When it comes to sustaining growth, all that is needed are the basics. That is all the government should be focused on providing while allowing citizens access to the resources so they can build, grow and retain wealth for the country.

The natural recourses are very limited. To impliment successful economic policy we need open borders.

[Muhaha]

The natural recourses are very limited. To impliment successful economic policy we need open borders.

I'm not against open borders, but the idea that what Armenia has right now isn't enough is silly. Armenia has access to the entire world through Georgia so they can easily be inventing, creating, and exporting. They're not for a number of reasons and I believe these two are the biggest reasons:

- The basic rules of Capitalism aren't followed, such as right to property, you can't expect entrepreneurs to be aggressive and ambitious if they've got no legal framework to make things happen and are instead afraid of the local kingpins or mafia men at every corner.

- There is a serious lack of investment and interest in education. Without this, we can't expect to have an economy of inventors and producers, which is what every strong country is founded upon. Unless the Armenian people and nation develop a serious interest and thirst for education, nothing will ever change for the better and things will only get worse.


Open borders? That's fine, but that's in no way a fix to the current problems.

[KarotheGreat]

I'm not against open borders, but the idea that what Armenia has right now isn't enough is silly. Armenia has access to the entire world through Georgia so they can easily be inventing, creating, and exporting. They're not for a number of reasons and I believe these two are the biggest reasons:

- The basic rules of Capitalism aren't followed, such as right to property, you can't expect entrepreneurs to be aggressive and ambitious if they've got no legal framework to make things happen and are instead afraid of the local kingpins or mafia men at every corner.

- There is a serious lack of investment and interest in education. Without this, we can't expect to have an economy of inventors and producers, which is what every strong country is founded upon. Unless the Armenian people and nation develop a serious interest and thirst for education, nothing will ever change for the better and things will only get worse.


Open borders? That's fine, but that's in no way a fix to the current problems.

The problem with Georgia is that the border with Russia is closed and the price we are paying to use their ports is too high.

The education part: if you don't have enough food you will not care about education. First we need to get the economy going and then we can start talking about the rest. And I agree there should be hell lot more investment in the Armenian economy.

You've got people living in palaces outside of Armenia why aren't they investing a little bit in Armenia.

[JohnCanadian]

Australia has a European Standard of living, it is a very wealthy country. It is one of the leading Regional Powers in Asia Pacific.

I believe Australia is very well suited to becoming an EU State in the future. It has such a European way of doing things. The EU should absorb Australia or put Australia into the EU's Satellite.

In Canada Kevin Rudd - Australia's most popular Prime Minister is a highly competent and very bright man, despite his Asperges like traits. I can tell you that Kevin Rudd is very well received in Canada as well among the Harper Government.

I say this because Armenia as a devastated former Soviet Republic could learn a lot of the European behavior of Australia and its true affirmation of Democracy and mixed Capitalism.

Among my favourite Countries are Australia Asia Pacific Romania a South Eastern European Country/Balkan] Poland Central Europe Slovenia Central Europe Czech Republic Central Europe.

Armenia could also learn a lot of those EU States from Central Europe/South Eastern Europe/Balkan In terms of assisting fledging and the extremely poor former Soviet non Democratic Republics that are still very much struggling very much to develop in many ways.

The CE and the South Eastern European/Balkan EU States can teach the former Soviet Republics to rebuild their severely crippled economies, economic management, micro economics, Democracy.

With Romania (South Eastern Europe/Balkan located EU State) and Poland (Central European Country) being the Regional Powers of each region - Poland Regional Power for Central Europe and Romania Regional Power for South Eastern Europe/Balkans can provide an immense wealth of highly valuable expertise. Poland and Romania were never part of the Soviet Union and not part of Yugoslavia and therefore have the necessary expertise to assist these struggling former Soviet Republics onto the road of economic and political reforms.

As Joe Biden said Poland and Romania should lead the way.

Canada has excellent relations with Romania and Poland right from the early 1900s. This will remain so forever as these increasingly important Countries are part of the EU 2004/07, and also valuable influential NATO Members.

Romania (especially) and Poland are among the top 10 Countries in the world for natural resources and this is very attractive to Canada and Canadian Companies that do business with these competent, well educated EU States. Romania and Poland are among Canada's biggest Trading Partners - Poland Central Europe's biggest trading partner and South Eastern Europe Romania is by far the biggest Trading Partner and most important EU State in SEE. I expect after the crisis to see more Canadian Companies investing in these two rapidly developing and rapidly increasingly wealthy EU States in the years to come

[hipeter924]

Australia has a European Standard of living, it is a very wealthy country. It is one of the leading Regional Powers in Asia Pacific.

I believe Australia is very well suited to becoming an EU State in the future. It has such a European way of doing things. The EU should absorb Australia or put Australia into the EU's Satellite.

In Canada Kevin Rudd - Australia's most popular Prime Minister is a highly competent and very bright man, despite his Asperges like traits. I can tell you that Kevin Rudd is very well received in Canada as well among the Harper Government.

I say this because Armenia as a devastated former Soviet Republic could learn a lot of the European behavior of Australia and its true affirmation of Democracy and mixed Capitalism.

Among my favourite Countries are Australia Asia Pacific Romania a South Eastern European Country/Balkan] Poland Central Europe Slovenia Central Europe Czech Republic Central Europe.

Armenia could also learn a lot of those EU States from Central Europe/South Eastern Europe/Balkan In terms of assisting fledging and the extremely poor former Soviet non Democratic Republics that are still very much struggling very much to develop in many ways.

The CE and the South Eastern European/Balkan EU States can teach the former Soviet Republics to rebuild their severely crippled economies, economic management, micro economics, Democracy.

With Romania (South Eastern Europe/Balkan located EU State) and Poland (Central European Country) being the Regional Powers of each region - Poland Regional Power for Central Europe and Romania Regional Power for South Eastern Europe/Balkans can provide an immense wealth of highly valuable expertise. Poland and Romania were never part of the Soviet Union and not part of Yugoslavia and therefore have the necessary expertise to assist these struggling former Soviet Republics onto the road of economic and political reforms.

As Joe Biden said Poland and Romania should lead the way.

Canada has excellent relations with Romania and Poland right from the early 1900s. This will remain so forever as these increasingly important Countries are part of the EU 2004/07, and also valuable influential NATO Members.

Romania (especially) and Poland are among the top 10 Countries in the world for natural resources and this is very attractive to Canada and Canadian Companies that do business with these competent, well educated EU States. Romania and Poland are among Canada's biggest Trading Partners - Poland Central Europe's biggest trading partner and South Eastern Europe Romania is by far the biggest Trading Partner and most important EU State in SEE. I expect after the crisis to see more Canadian Companies investing in these two rapidly developing and rapidly increasingly wealthy EU States in the years to come

Okay before you even start, Australia is a nation that wants its sovereignty intact and what you talk of will never happen. I have friends that are Australian and I have lived in Australia myself and what you say is insulting. Australia is a free country and doesn't need the EU to take it over.

This whole discussion of yours in this topic (and even on this whole forum) is not on Armenia, and instead seems to just focus on how Canada is doing, how great Canada is, and talk about how great the EU is, and complement allies of the USA, while at the same time you insult Armenia and other countries that aren't doing that well economically.

Why are you even still here? I give up...it seems to be you are just here to cause trouble and insult people for not being born in Canada.

[levon]

- There is a serious lack of investment and interest in education. Without this, we can't expect to have an economy of inventors and producers, which is what every strong country is founded upon. Unless the Armenian people and nation develop a serious interest and thirst for education, nothing will ever change for the better and things will only get worse.


Are you speaking from experience or just assuming that Armenians in Armenia don't care about education, because you're dead wrong.

Apart from the fact that Armenia has a much higher level of literacy than many "Developed countries" (such as the US), the education level in an average school in Yerevan (looking at grades 6 and up) is on par with the best public high schools in the US, especially when it comes to mathematics. But, I admit that teacher's aren't payed as much as they should be.

[Armanen]

Are you speaking from experience or just assuming that Armenians in Armenia don't care about education, because you're dead wrong.

Apart from the fact that Armenia has a much higher level of literacy than many "Developed countries" (such as the US), the education level in an average school in Yerevan (looking at grades 6 and up) is on par with the best public high schools in the US, especially when it comes to mathematics. But, I admit that teacher's aren't payed as much as they should be.


Many of the public schools of major u.s. cities are aweful. The issues I see with the currant state of Armenian primary education is the lack of funding for supplies and as you said the teachers are underpayed. Also, investment in building new schools is a problem too. There has been progress but more should be done in that direction.

[levon]

You're right, public schools in major cities in the US are awful; however, these schools can barely be qualified as best schools. While lack of supplies is a problem, the US has proved that a country can spend extreme amounts of money on education with no success, on the other hand, in Armenia the education level is respectable despite lack of investment.

[levon]

What we need in Armenia is support to open more schools such as "Phys-Math school" and Ananya Shirakaci in Yerevan, and the Phys-Math school in Artsakh.

[JohnCanadian]

Okay before you even start, Australia is a nation that wants its sovereignty intact and what you talk of will never happen. I have friends that are Australian and I have lived in Australia myself and what you say is insulting. Australia is a free country and doesn't need the EU to take it over.

This whole discussion of yours in this topic (and even on this whole forum) is not on Armenia, and instead seems to just focus on how Canada is doing, how great Canada is, and talk about how great the EU is, and complement allies of the USA, while at the same time you insult Armenia and other countries that aren't doing that well economically.

Why are you even still here? I give up...it seems to be you are just here to cause trouble and insult people for not being born in Canada.

I could very well ask the same thing as you. What is a New Zealander doing on an Armenian forum?

I have not insulted Armenia at all, I have been pointing out its weakness that is the truth of the matter. I have no intention to insult any country.

I can say that New Zealand is performing poorly as well. But nothing to the extent of the former Soviet Republics. I have some friends from the US and some from Australia who consider New Zealand to be very backwards. So do not accuse me about me criticizing other countries that I have not been doing anyway.

I have no intention to cause trouble. I am saying that countries like Armenia and other extremely poor countries need to start performing to a higher level if these countries want to deliver the promises to its citizens that they have been denied for so so long.

I also stated that Australia with its very high standard of living and very efficient Government and Institutions could teach a lot to the struggling countries of the world about improving living standards and implementing laws and strategies that will enhance the nation into a more acceptable standard of living.

With Canada's Per Capita, Australia's and Slovenia's Per Capita New Zealand has very poor living standards. Even some of the CE EU States are going to overtake New Zealand's low level of wealth very soon. Poland - EU State has a GDP that is more then 3x higher then New Zealand can ever achieve. So yes I praise many Countries that deserve it and work hard to earn my praise and many people for that matter. I do not consider New Zealand to be a rich country it ranks low on OECD rankings almost constantly. Slovenia even though its not an OECD Member - it will be soon I hope outranks New Zealand in a wide range of indicators. Czech Republic is another country that outstrips New Zealand's performance by a considerable margin.

[KanadaHye]

Hey John Q. Public....

I suggest you read up on how General Motors just screwed Canada and the EU with the Magna/Opel fiasco. Canada would be better off breaking ties with the EU and the US, they are dragging down the wealth of Canadians. And for sakes... it's time to drop that anchor of a monarchy or so called "royal family".

[hipeter924]

I could very well ask the same thing as you. What is a New Zealander doing on an Armenian forum?

I have not insulted Armenia at all, I have been pointing out its weakness that is the truth of the matter. I have no intention to insult any country.

I can say that New Zealand is performing poorly as well. But nothing to the extent of the former Soviet Republics. I have some friends from the US and some from Australia who consider New Zealand to be very backwards. So do not accuse me about me criticizing other countries that I have not been doing anyway.

I have no intention to cause trouble. I am saying that countries like Armenia and other extremely poor countries need to start performing to a higher level if these countries want to deliver the promises to its citizens that they have been denied for so so long.

I also stated that Australia with its very high standard of living and very efficient Government and Institutions could teach a lot to the struggling countries of the world about improving living standards and implementing laws and strategies that will enhance the nation into a more acceptable standard of living.

With Canada's Per Capita, Australia's and Slovenia's Per Capita New Zealand has very poor living standards. Even some of the CE EU States are going to overtake New Zealand's low level of wealth very soon. Poland - EU State has a GDP that is more then 3x higher then New Zealand can ever achieve. So yes I praise many Countries that deserve it and work hard to earn my praise and many people for that matter. I do not consider New Zealand to be a rich country it ranks low on OECD rankings almost constantly. Slovenia even though its not an OECD Member - it will be soon I hope outranks New Zealand in a wide range of indicators. Czech Republic is another country that outstrips New Zealand's performance by a considerable margin.

I would be careful there, some of Australia's corporations are run by you guessed it NZ'ers, and one of the Russian billionaire oligarchs is a NZ'er too, then again there are tons of NZ billionaires living overseas. So while it is true on a whole country basis NZ is not the best, whether it be the World Bank, UN or whatever NZ'ers are always there. NZ does well in educating its people, but not so well in keeping them aka 2 million NZ'ers or something live overseas.

As for this GDP per capita NZ was at 30,000+ before the recession. Which is well above Poland, so you re talking out of your arse. :rolleyes: Give me the actual numbers not predictions and fantasy.

As for NZ's economic future, it is much tied to Australia's economic future and I assure you that if we ever were in dire economic straits we could by terms of Australia's constitution enter the Australian commonwealth.

Also you turn a blind eye to corruption, because NZ is ranked the least corrupt country in the world alongside a few EU states.

Also I think you value human rights below economics, dangerous as far as I am concerned. Because your entire discussion seems to be based on upon the premise a is richer than b therefore a is a better country.

Final note: I did a search on Google.

Typed: "NZ Forward Thinking" it got Results 1 - 10 of about 6,260,000 for New Zealand Forward Thinking. (0.36 seconds)
Typed: New Zealand Forward thinking" it got Results 1 - 10 of about 6,260,000 for New Zealand Forward Thinking. (0.11 seconds)
Typed: "NZ Backward Thinking" it got Results 1 - 10 of about 61,400 for New Zealand Backward Thinking. (0.33 seconds)
Typed: "New Zealand Backwards" it got Results 1 - 10 of about 2,260,000 for New Zealand Backwards. (0.21 seconds)

So you can try variations on this but as a whole most people think NZ is forward thinking. :)

[Armanen]

He also doesn't take into account other factors such as 'national happiness'. One would think that the richest country or countries would be the happiest but that is not the case. The U.S. is not the happiest country in the world, now why do you suppose that is?

[hipeter924]

He also doesn't take into account other factors such as 'national happiness'. One would think that the richest country or countries would be the happiest but that is not the case. The U.S. is not the happiest country in the world, now why do you suppose that is?

I have the OECD 2009 Factbook own my ipod, so that is why I can quote figures knowing I am not talking out of my arse. Latest numbers Canada is $38,500, NZ is $27,431 which is quite close to Greece which stands at $28,432. Poland is at $15,989, Slovenia is at $26,746 which is just behind NZ, and Czech Republic at $24,027.

I will help you with happyness:

Positive experience index ranks 1st Canada 2nd Mexico 3rd United States 4th New Zealand 5th Denmark

As for actual poverty rates:

1st Mexico
2nd US
3rd Poland
4th Turkey
5th Japan
6th Canada
7th Korea
8th Ireland
9th Spain
10th New Zealand

So while GDP may be high, the level of poverty is not correlated necessarily between GDP per capita and actual amount/rate of poverty.

[Armanen]

How is the u.s. number one in poverty? Is that percentage or by population per country living in poverty?

[hipeter924]

How is the u.s. number one in poverty? Is that percentage or by population per country living in poverty?

The one I show is called poverty rates for working age people.

Another one that may be interesting is called Income inequalities for people with low, median and high income.

Here is highest for low income:
1st Luxembourg
2nd Netherlands
3rd Austria
4th Denmark
5th Sweden
6th United Kingdom
7th Switzerland
8th Belgium
9th Finland
10th France
----------------
12th Australia
13th Canada
----------------
17th New Zealand
-----------------
20th United States
------------------
Turkey 29th
Mexico 30th