History of Indo-European Languages...

[dusken]

This is not entirely devoted to Armenian History but has some interesting stuff to say about our language origins and the origins of other Indo-European languages.

Good Stuff (http://www.armenianhighland.com/homeland/chronicle120.html)

[jgm1975]

It is a very good link. I think that a few of the assertions can be disputed, but overall, even if you go to non-Armenian sources, they highlight the unique nature of the Armenian language which forms a family of its own (like Slavic, Germanic, Latin, Greek, Indo-Iranian, etc.). In fact, the beauty of the Armenian language is that it forms the bridge between the Western families (Greek, Slavic, Germanic, Latin, Celtic) and the Eastern families (Iranian, Indian), thus placing the Armenian language in the privileged position of being the language in the middle. The only problem with the Armenian language is how it has evolved into two separate entities (Western Armenian and Eastern Armenian) which is not contributing to Armenian unity:

http://www.geocities.com/jgm1975/Language.htm

[HyeJinx1984]

I haven't read the article yet, but just responding to the post above about different Armenian dialects.. it doesn't bother me at all, in fact I really like the fact that we have such diversity WITHIN our culture. Armenians from certain parts of the world speak completely different than others, have different food, different kinds of music.. but it's all Armenian. It doesn't matter if I can't understand my Baruitsi friend if my life depended on it.. I know he's speaking Armenian and it sounds beautiful. I like to think of us as Diverse, but one. OK, i'm done philosophizing now, lol.

[dusken]

It is a very good link. I think that a few of the assertions can be disputed, but overall, even if you go to non-Armenian sources...

Take a closer look. That article was published in Scientific American Magazine --- a respected and non-Armenian source.

[Darorinag]

How dare you say Armenian is an Indo-European language! That's utterly Indo-European supremacist! :rolleyes:

[dusken]

How dare you say Armenian is an Indo-European language! That's utterly Indo-European supremacist! :rolleyes:

What the phuck are you talking about and to whom are you rolling your eyes?

[Darorinag]

No one in particular. Just criticizing public opinion, that's all. I love the fallacies they use. :D

[xBaron Dants]

The only problem with the Armenian language is how it has evolved into two separate entities (Western Armenian and Eastern Armenian) which is not contributing to Armenian unity:


The differences in pronounciation of the same letters and in the spelling of the same letters can be a problem, I can understand.

But both branches of the Armenian language are beautiful, complete, and have contributed immensely to our culture. It is a richness, and not an obstacle.

[Darorinag]

The relationship between spelling and pronounciation in Eastern Armenian is phucked up. :rolleyes: But I still like the way it sounds (if no Russian is mixed in it). Just that I can't seem to be able to reason out the logic behind the letters and their pronounciation. Ahh well..

[xBaron Dants]

Pronounciation is correct in Eastern Armenian. It's how it used to be in Western Armenian too. The eastern pronounciation makes a lot more sense than the western one.

As for spelling, it's now based on a stupid "spell how you say" method, which has pretty much killed the language. Thank you Stalin!

[dusken]

I believe the Eastern pronounciation is correct and Western spelling and words are correct. I could be wrong.

However, all languages have dialects and all languages evolve.

[Darorinag]

No, what I meant to say is that - when you're reading something from a paper or whatever. Like you write parev with a "pen" (I'm talking about writing the word in Armenian letters, not English letters like we always do here) and pronounce it "barev". Or is parev written with a "beh" in eastern Armenian?!? If you actually pronounce "pen" (the second letter of the alphabet), the sound is "P" not "B". It doesn't matter that the order compared to English is A, B and Aip, Pen.. etc. Anyone get what I'm saying?!?!

[xBaron Dants]

No, what I meant to say is that - when you're reading something from a paper or whatever. Like you write parev with a "pen" (I'm talking about writing the word in Armenian letters, not English letters like we always do here) and pronounce it "barev". Or is parev written with a "beh" in eastern Armenian?!? If you actually pronounce "pen" (the second letter of the alphabet), the sound is "P" not "B". It doesn't matter that the order compared to English is A, B and Aip, Pen.. etc. Anyone get what I'm saying?!?!

Yes, I get what you're saying.

But, the real sound of "pen" is "b". :)

[dstyle]

Ya, the correct dialect is Eastern Armenian, the correct spelling is Western Armenian. DAmn Stalin.

[HyeJinx1984]

Ya, the correct dialect is Eastern Armenian, the correct spelling is Western Armenian. DAmn Stalin.

Since I can't read or write, I wonder what dialect my family speaks. We use the B sounds more than the P sounds.

[Tres Bien]

if you know where youre family is from originally ...then youll know if you speak western or eastern...
If you use b as prounansation- in barev for example, then you speak eastern most probably.

[dusken]

Have we not already discussed the dialectal differences to death in other threads where such a discussion would be on topic?

[HyeJinx1984]

if you know where youre family is from originally ...then youll know if you speak western or eastern...
If you use b as prounansation- in barev for example, then you speak eastern most probably.
Thanks :)


ffffffffffff

[jgm1975]

Indeed all languages have dialects, and they are a source of wealth, diversity and originality. I know of many different French dialects. But all the French write Daniel as "Daniel", while among Armenians, we have "Daniel" and "Taniel". It is as if some English-speaking people referred to a "nav" as "boat", while others referred to it as a "poad". There are dozens of Italian dialects, yet all Italians write the name Marc as "Marco", while among Armenians there is "Markos" and "Margos". The Western Armenian and Eastern Armenian division is a result of the Armenian language having been desecrated by foreign powers bent on eliminating the originality of the Armenian language. While now it may not be seen as a significant problem, compared to the significant economic problems affecting Armenia, it is something that can create further divisions among Armenians, divisions that a small nation can not afford. I speak Western Armenian, yet sometimes when I listen to Eastern Armenian, I really have to pay attention because I may not understand. Also, when a non-Armenian asks me to write his name using the beautiful Armenian alphabet that he enjoys to see, I am embarrassed because if the guy's name is "Brian", based on the first letter that I use, some Armenians will read it "Brian" while others will read it "Prian". Language is the most important element of any culture. Many countries have been torn on this issue (Canada, Belgium), while others have been united as a result of a common language (Italy, Germany). Today we have de-facto two Armenian languages, both with inaccuracies compared to the original language (although the pronunciation of Eastern Armenian is more exact). That is feeding into this "Hayastantsis vs. others" mentality. We already have divisions among Diaspora Armenians (Beyrutsis vs. Halesbtsis vs. Bolsetsis), let's not make things worse. We are notorious for this "battles of the -tsis". We Armenians like to compare ourselves to xxxs and Turks. To xxxs because of the similarities in terms of being an oppressed nation spread around the world that has survived throughout the millenniums, to Turks because of the obvious historical episodes. Yet the xxxs reformed the Hebrew language in the 19th century when they realized that it was drifting apart due to foreign influences on the language, while the Turks adopted the Latin alphabet in the 20s to make the language more modern. If xxxs and Turks can take steps to reform their language, the most important part of a culture, to build cohesion, retain or regain the purity of the language and give generations to come a solid foundation of their identity, so can Armenians. I think that this is more than a mere dialect issue. It is a question of saving the sanctity of the Armenian language, and it is not difficult to reconcile both variants to have a single language. Anyway, if people think it is not a big deal, so be it...

[Tres Bien]

one step forward in percerving the armenian langauge could easily done if those who use russian words or or arabic for example, use the armenian for it instead, as mostly its not very complicated words.

"xi"(incho), "karas",(garokhes), and inputs as "ara"...,
must be REMOVED from your vocabulary list. The best way to percerve the armenian langauge, or at least sparing us sensitive people from getting sick:)

"We Armenians like to compare ourselves to xxxs and Turks."

I have one word to say, -LOL.

[hyebruin]

i find that word "karas" hillarious! every time i hear it i wanna say "cheh! chem kara"...for whatever reason that word brings out the rebel in me!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Archetype8]

Who cares what DIALECT or hemisphere of Armenian is really spoken. Do you see any American relegating anyone else in North America who is from the South as a second class citizen just based upon their DIALECT of southern English? It is the same thing and it varies only because of the outside source of the interactions the south had that the north did not. Like for example, the south had lots of Africans with French who had totally different dialects and ways of pronouncing words. The north mainly consisted of Natives and British or other Northern Europeans. However, there is an original root and way of speaking English and the primary source is England. But even then, NO ONE in America segregates southerners really as much as Armenians segregate their own kind, as second-class citizens. No one in America says "well you speak it wrong." Because they even know that it is all still English being spoken for and from their nationality that they cannot put down.

[Archetype8]

i find that word "karas" hillarious! every time i hear it i wanna say "cheh! chem kara"...for whatever reason that word brings out the rebel in me!! :evil: :evil: :evil: Not really. It just brings out the inner dolt concealed within.

[Archetype8]

Armenian is an Indo-European language. Indo-European= Asiatic & European languages combined. Indo-Sanskrit, Farsi, Urdu. European- Armenian Gaelic Italian German etc.

[Archetype8]

one step forward in percerving the armenian langauge could easily done if those who use russian words or or arabic for example, use the armenian for it instead, as mostly its not very complicated words.

"xi"(incho), "karas",(garokhes), and inputs as "ara"...,
must be REMOVED from your vocabulary list. The best way to percerve the armenian langauge, or at least sparing us sensitive people from getting sick:)



I have one word to say, -LOL. Armenian (modern day) is really spoken using many words from Turks Kurds Russians Arabs Persians etc. For many years, the Armenian language has been contaminated with outside linguistics and for some oafish reason, Armenians have allowed those words to be incorporated into their rich unique language that is gold and like no other and those words have remained there for some reason.

[Archetype8]

This twaddle you guys spew of "eastern/westerm/southern/northern/ Armenian" came later on after Armenians faced their unfortunate invasion way back in 900 B.c.

[Archetype8]

Why have you guys ruined this knowledgeable topic in this thread with nonsense?

[Tres Bien]

Dont mix turkish words, or russian, or even armenian hedamnats dialect, that was hole my point!!!
The easiest way to percerve the language.
and no dialects are not the problem at all i agree.

Persian and armenian has been very close to eachother in the past. To my knowleadge there are many words alive in the armenian language today, that the persians has abondoned and are not in used in Persian today at all, acording to persian lingustics.

[Archetype8]

[QUOTE=Tres Bien]Dont mix turkish words, or russian, or even armenian hedamnats dialect, that was hole my point!!!
The easiest way to percerve the language.
and no dialects are not the problem at all i agree.

Persian and armenian has been very close to eachother in the past. To my knowleadge there are many words alive in the armenian language today, that the persians has abondoned and are not in used in Persian today at all, acording to persian lingustics.[/QUOTE


HAHAHAHA I see you still hold close the myth that our Armenian parents teach us without any evidence or proof. Look, ALL ancient ethnicities were always very close with each other. That whole region from the middle-east extending as far as Rome, Italy has always been at a constant kinship then back to rivals again with perpetual warfare.

You obviously have not read that the Persians come in 2nd next to Turks for slaughtering and cheating naive Armenians like you with their schemes, ever since the 500s BC. Like I said EARLIER TOO, ARMENIANS NEED TO GET THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES AND STOP WORSHIPPING ARABS AND PERSIANS ONLY BECAUSE THEY KILLED US WITH KNIVES NOT GUNS. They are no less guilty except the only thing is the Persians slaughtered and had tolerance for some Armenian customs as did the Romans. The Turks however did not. But really if you put the two and two together neither one is at all any less guilty than the other.

The only reason and time Armenians incorporated Persian words into their little minds and dialogue was AFTER they got conquered. If anything, the Persians mooched off and borrowed a lot of things and learned many ways of life from Armenians and they are just way too stubborn to admit that.

[Archetype8]

Dont mix turkish words, or russian, or even armenian hedamnats dialect, that was hole my point!!!
The easiest way to percerve the language.
and no dialects are not the problem at all i agree.

Persian and armenian has been very close to eachother in the past. To my knowleadge there are many words alive in the armenian language today, that the persians has abondoned and are not in used in Persian today at all, acording to persian lingustics.

You fool, they were never close. It was the same deal with the Spaniards and the British who very similarly conquered and stole many ways of life from the Native Americans. EXCEPT the difference is that the SPANIARDS just like the Persians tolerated a lot of the Natives' customs and beliefs as long as they contracted gold for their greed. That is how we have the modern day "Latino" aka Mestizo. They created a new breed when the Spaniards totally annexed and mixed with the Aztecs thus creating your "latino" or more specifically "mexican." The British however did not tolerate those sorts of acts. They in fact, saw it as a taboo and you were looked harshly down upon if you went with a Native American. The whole racial mixing was entirely forbidden. If a British man was even seen closely intimate with a Native American they were treated terribly and were called "squaw-man." That is the same with the Armenians who were cowardly attacked by a large army consisting of Assyrians Medes and your regular Persians that ganged up with one giant army but had tolerance. The Turks just looked down upon Armenians period as Christians and slaughtered left and right.

[Archetype8]

Dont mix turkish words, or russian, or even armenian hedamnats dialect, that was hole my point!!!
The easiest way to percerve the language.
and no dialects are not the problem at all i agree.

Persian and armenian has been very close to eachother in the past. To my knowleadge there are many words alive in the armenian language today, that the persians has abondoned and are not in used in Persian today at all, acording to persian lingustics.

What in the world are you saying? Anyone who says "persians and armenians were close with each other in the past" is entirely wrong and has an impaired mental mindset. Those words most likely come from "parskahyes" who just want to avoid any challenge or conflict due to their excessive fear and traitor like ways. If you read our entire history from various books you will see that the Persians stand right next to the Turks in terms of those ignoramuses that are guilty of pillaging Armenians and the Persians especially used Armenians as like the mules.

[Archetype8]

Armenians were very close with LOTS of people at one point. It was all based upon the religion they all accepted once upon a time. For instance, Armenians had close ties with the Assyrians at one point, till they decided to sever their ties and try to colonize Armenia and we in return ended their civilization.

[Archetype8]

Are you honestly blind or deaf or stupid? Or all three? Persians are such sycophantic bottom-feeders that they all now a days try to manuever around their own crimes they are guilty of by blaming Islam the very religion that they fought to submit others to. They use cheesy line of "Well those damn Arabs came and forced us into Islam it is not our fault" when it clearly is. That is still no excuse and that does not ABSOLVE Persians from their own stupidity for accepting or allowing that. Arabs and Turks and Mongols all forced Armenians trying to GET us to submit but we did not and we are like this tiny nation. Therefore, being a total conniving bunch of desert cads as the Persians are and were still doesnt pay off. If we put it in their pathetic excuses/arguments the Turks were never muslims either. Muslims come from Arabia and it spread all across the Mediterranean to the middle east and farther into central Asia where the Turks originate from i.e. the Tars. Howcome we still did not submit? The Persians did and in fact they totally were drooling to see Armenian civilization collapse by helping our muslims and tricking us into false promises and treaties that they broke. They even helped the muslims as their "allies" against this time the Christian Armenians and even still then they backpeddle for their own idiocy just to avoid paying the consequences that they all deserve. They failed to make and break our warrior fighting spirits to fall victims to their banal culture and Islamic customs.

[Archetype8]

Here Tresbien, how about this: DO NOT MIX UP OR CONTAMINATE THE ARMENIAN LANGUAGE WITH TURKISH, KURDISH, PERSIAN, RUSSIAN, ENGLISH or any other source of language.

[Archetype8]

This one Persian who was like 45 years old stood up with me in his broken English that needed fixing and goes:

"Dah Greeks force Armenians into CHRISCHANTY beehcoz deh Greeks ver ChrisCHAN I RED DEES"

In translation (I think): He said the only reason why Armenians are Christian is because the GREEKS [who were totally pagan and did not have any sort of Christian background till the mideval times whereas Armenians turned Christian around 300 AD] "made" Armenians supposedly "into christians." And at the end after I fed him a plate of his own rubbish with his bullxxxx on the side by saying "How can a group of people just turn to Christianity when they already were Christians before the Greeks even heard of Christ? I mean like do you guys not learn civility or logic in your desert holes in Iran?" He just laughs and goes "Noh datz meybe I am wrong" I go "it s not maybe YOU ARE wrong. Dont get back here till you learn some logic and or have some valid educational sources to assert whatever bullxxxx you were taunt in your mosque while you work on making sense next time without mixing up crucial facts that your small mind is unaware of as usual."

He just runs rapidly like the middle-eastern desert rats his kind are and he yells "ARMENIANS ARE PERSIANS BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THEY GET THE 'IAN' FROM OK???!!!" :laugh:

I laugh so hard and thought that never will any one reach the limit of ignorance and stupidity all in one package, that is till the day I met this guy, as irksome as that always was and still is to recall, good riddance.
:laugh:

[Tres Bien]

"HAHAHAHA I see you still hold close the myth that our Armenian parents teach us without any evidence or proof. Look, ALL ancient ethnicities were always very close with each other. That whole region from the middle-east extending as far as Rome, Italy has always been at a constant kinship then back to rivals again with perpetual warfare. "

------
Armenian and persian are very close to one another in linguistic form.
They are both indo-european langauges, and are neigbouring countries..
hard enough???

-----
"You obviously have not read that the Persians come in 2nd next to Turks for slaughtering and cheating naive Armenians like you with their schemes, ever since the 500s BC. Like I said EARLIER TOO, ARMENIANS NEED TO GET THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES AND STOP WORSHIPPING ARABS AND PERSIANS ONLY BECAUSE THEY KILLED US WITH KNIVES NOT GUNS. They are no less guilty except the only thing is the Persians slaughtered and had tolerance for some Armenian customs as did the Romans. The Turks however did not. But really if you put the two and two together neither one is at all any less guilty than the other.
"

I dont give a damn about persians or arabs, no more than i do with any other people on this earth Or what they think of us.

i have to say that the most ugliest Armenian I have heard, is not the one mixed with foriegn words, but those who speak "armenian" and do it ugly!!!!! with a "jughatsi" barbar to it.

[Archetype8]

"HAHAHAHA I see you still hold close the myth that our Armenian parents teach us without any evidence or proof. Look, ALL ancient ethnicities were always very close with each other. That whole region from the middle-east extending as far as Rome, Italy has always been at a constant kinship then back to rivals again with perpetual warfare. "

------
Armenian and persian are very close to one another in linguistic form.
They are both indo-european langauges, and are neigbouring countries..
hard enough???

-----
"You obviously have not read that the Persians come in 2nd next to Turks for slaughtering and cheating naive Armenians like you with their schemes, ever since the 500s BC. Like I said EARLIER TOO, ARMENIANS NEED TO GET THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES AND STOP WORSHIPPING ARABS AND PERSIANS ONLY BECAUSE THEY KILLED US WITH KNIVES NOT GUNS. They are no less guilty except the only thing is the Persians slaughtered and had tolerance for some Armenian customs as did the Romans. The Turks however did not. But really if you put the two and two together neither one is at all any less guilty than the other.
"

I dont give a damn about persians or arabs, no more than i do with any other people on this earth Or what they think of us.

i have to say that the most ugliest Armenian I have heard, is not the one mixed with foriegn words, but those who speak "armenian" and do it ugly!!!!! with a "jughatsi" barbar to it. YES all Indo-European languages have A FEW similarities. What is your point? Armenian is similar to Aramaic if you want to take that into consideration.

[Archetype8]

Tresbien, it is not a matter of what they THINK of us. If they had that ability in their narrow minds they would not think of committing a genocide or something similar to us. It is what they DID to us and how you Armenians today still have forgotten that and focused your attentions on just Turks, while slaving and kissing the asses of Arabs and Persians who could care less if you die. It is not just Turks it can go in the following order:

1) Turks
2) Persians
3) Arabs
4) Mongols
5) Romans/Byzantines


And besides, Italy and ALGERIA are neighbors too, what is your point? After all that territory the Persians conquered I dont see why your gap-filled head doesnt see that EVERYTHING that they have that they are thriving upon is and was borrowed from Armenians, mainly. They are not really "neighbors" either I mean if you say that that is like saying the Spanish and Morrocans are neighbors as well. Yea and? They are totally different people with no reason to worship each other as you expect Armenians to do here with those desert cads.

[Archetype8]

"HAHAHAHA I see you still hold close the myth that our Armenian parents teach us without any evidence or proof. Look, ALL ancient ethnicities were always very close with each other. That whole region from the middle-east extending as far as Rome, Italy has always been at a constant kinship then back to rivals again with perpetual warfare. "

------
Armenian and persian are very close to one another in linguistic form.
They are both indo-european langauges, and are neigbouring countries..
hard enough???

-----
"You obviously have not read that the Persians come in 2nd next to Turks for slaughtering and cheating naive Armenians like you with their schemes, ever since the 500s BC. Like I said EARLIER TOO, ARMENIANS NEED TO GET THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES AND STOP WORSHIPPING ARABS AND PERSIANS ONLY BECAUSE THEY KILLED US WITH KNIVES NOT GUNS. They are no less guilty except the only thing is the Persians slaughtered and had tolerance for some Armenian customs as did the Romans. The Turks however did not. But really if you put the two and two together neither one is at all any less guilty than the other.
"

I dont give a damn about persians or arabs, no more than i do with any other people on this earth Or what they think of us.

i have to say that the most ugliest Armenian I have heard, is not the one mixed with foriegn words, but those who speak "armenian" and do it ugly!!!!! with a "jughatsi" barbar to it. The "Jughatsis" are the Armenians who in the 1800s were kidnapped by our kindly "great neighbors" the Persians to Iran for simply labor them into industriailizing the palaces of Ayatollah as sad as that all sounds.

Those are "Parskahyes" who speak with that outsider influenced dialect. That does not mean anything. We can go to the rural south and I will show you regular White people of British descent who speak a totally weird and quaint sounding English than the ones in California or MA.

[Tres Bien]

actually i made a spelling misstake - i meant gjughtsi armenian, or i dont know what else to call it-"simple" armenian- words like xi, karas etc. Weve have had this discusion in another thread If i recall correcly.


Yes i know about the Jughtsiz very well. and i wouldnt exacly call it "simple" labour if you saw what they achieved in iran.

[Archetype8]

actually i made a spelling misstake - i meant gjughtsi armenian, or i dont know what else to call it-"simple" armenian- words like xi, karas etc. Weve have had this discusion in another thread If i recall correcly.


Yes i know about the Jughtsiz very well. and i wouldnt exacly call it "simple" labour if you saw what they achieved in iran.

But I wasnt saying they were incompetent, hahaha omg wow it is true that you really do not read. YES HAHAHAH that is precisely my point. Of course they have ACHIEVED A LOT it is in our blood to do so. That is not my point and you obviously are too deficient to see that. My point was that they were FORCED AGAINST THEIR WILL there by Persians you twit. What they accomplished is another story and yes they did that who said that they didnt?

That is like saying "you would not call the Blacks simple force if you see what they have planted and all of the great crop plantations they have achieved." Yes we know that but the essence of that is that they were brought there forcibly by your gods you worship aka persians and arabs.

As for the villagers, well they speak with a broken slang and we already have established that and we know it. It is colloqualism that they use and yes in every language you have those that always tend to speak every language with slang, of course that needs fixing but that is not the worst of our problems here.

[Archetype8]

My argument was to acknowledge and target this wrath to where it really belongs not just to Turks but to Persians as well. They stand no more or less guilty than anyone.

[Archetype8]

You are in America now, wake up. You have a voice and freedom now that you parskahyes and all of the other "hyes" can use as well. No ridiculous Iranian extremist will come along the way and slit your necks for it, fear not. You don't need to fake pretend you love an ethnicity that wants your heads on sticks. This place is a lot more civil than that and you have a right to be upset at Arabs Persians Turks as much as you can and want. Blacks do it, we can as well. Native Americans do it, we can as well.

[Archetype8]

Is the argument over now, Tresbien? I bet your whole cause and motive with these posts was to stick up for Parskahyes as arbitrary as that sounds, only because your simple-mind thought I was attacking them huh? You thought I was going about putting down parskahyes which is thus why you all of a sudden took matters into your own hands and said what you said: "If you only see what they achieved." :laughs:

[Tres Bien]

I am not parskahay , i am a sheveda-hay, and ive never been to iran, wich makes you a laughing fool.

[Archetype8]

Where did I say YOU specifically are a "Parskahye?" You are a what? A "shveda-hay?" Meaning supposedly from Sweden? Even if you were or werent it would not matter. Trust me, the Armenians in these Northern European nations are largely parskahyes that settled there. Either "parskahyes" or "bolsahyes" and that exemplifies you as a fool which is of no surprise.

[Tres Bien]

The hole population of sheveda hay armenians are fools. Listen to this guy :laugh:
Maybe im a fool, sometimes can BE A FOOL for discussing stupid things like this with you, but why offense all "sheveda-hayer", be it parskahay bolsahay or whatever they might be. Everyone is not shaped in one format.

:wave: this was my last comment:rolleyes:

[kikki88]

Armenian is an Indo-European language. Indo-European= Asiatic & European languages combined. Indo-Sanskrit, Farsi, Urdu. European- Armenian Gaelic Italian German etc.


Indo-European does NOT mean Asiatic & European languages combined, that's just not the correct way of classifying languages, linguistically speaking. In fact, in the science of Linguistics Asiatic is a completely different subgroup from Indo-European and includes language like Turkish etc. Furthermore, there is no Asian and European classification within the Indo-European subgroup. There are simply branches like Slavic, Germanic etc. It was earlier mentioned also that Armenian is a link between European and Asian, another unscientific subjective fact. Armenian has a branch of it's own and the only known languages in the branch are Dacian and Thracian, languages which are both extinct today. It is known that Armenian has many borrowed words from Persian and at one point linguists around the world classified Armenian as a dialect of Persian, however later it was scientifically proven that Armenian belongs to a distinct branch and furthermore based on this we can say that our linguistic ancestor came down to Anatolia from the Balkans (around Thrace). They assimilated with the local inhabitants who called themselves Hayasa (thus we call ourselves HYE) and the language of the Armens mixed with Hayasa language became our language. The beauty and sadness of this is that Armenians as a nation formed in Anatolia and continued living there for thousands and thousands of years only to be erased by Ottoman Turks in early 20th century.

[kikki88]

One of the best websited to read about the IE languages is here

http://www.armenianhighland.com/homeland/chronicle120.html

[dusken]

Thank you for reposting the link.

[IvyLipstick]

Indo-European does NOT mean Asiatic & European languages combined, that's just not the correct way of classifying languages, linguistically speaking. In fact, in the science of Linguistics Asiatic is a completely different subgroup from Indo-European and includes language like Turkish etc. Furthermore, there is no Asian and European classification within the Indo-European subgroup. There are simply branches like Slavic, Germanic etc. It was earlier mentioned also that Armenian is a link between European and Asian, another unscientific subjective fact. Armenian has a branch of it's own and the only known languages in the branch are Dacian and Thracian, languages which are both extinct today. It is known that Armenian has many borrowed words from Persian and at one point linguists around the world classified Armenian as a dialect of Persian, however later it was scientifically proven that Armenian belongs to a distinct branch and furthermore based on this we can say that our linguistic ancestor came down to Anatolia from the Balkans (around Thrace). They assimilated with the local inhabitants who called themselves Hayasa (thus we call ourselves HYE) and the language of the Armens mixed with Hayasa language became our language. The beauty and sadness of this is that Armenians as a nation formed in Anatolia and continued living there for thousands and thousands of years only to be erased by Ottoman Turks in early 20th century.


Actually ever since Armenians got conquered they have been borrowing words, read your history more carefully. Armenian is in a branch of its own but you cannot exactly prove that and just like any language, it belongs with a certain sect. IE languages are Asian and European languages because Sanskrit which comes from India is an Asian language. Yet it is considered an Indo-European language aka Aryan. Those were all misconceived facts that they said about Armenian being linked to another language. IF anything it is the other way around as many scholars as you said "later investigated" all of this spiel. My point is that either way, regardless of where you came from, you guys belong to that original Aryan sect.

[IvyLipstick]

PRECISELY kiki thank you. That was my point that I was alluding to earlier on. We are of European descent but like I said again, THAT of which you said now is simply a theory. No one is certain about your affinities.

[IvyLipstick]

One of the best websited to read about the IE languages is here

http://www.armenianhighland.com/homeland/chronicle120.html

No that is totally flawed and even that .com right away clues you into its not credible assertions. That website contradicts a lot of what regular teachers in Armenian schools teach. All of these that we speak of in detail ARE THEORIES. No one knows which one is correct but you are entitled to think that Armenians "settled into Asia minor from the Balkans" as well as "Armenians are the Hayasa tribe" as well as the other theories about 'Hayk and Bell' and even Noah's son being our forefather, biblically speaking. Either one is pretty valid.

[IvyLipstick]

Does anyone honestly know what language or type of group are these "hayasa" people: I mean are they Aryan or Semitic?

[kikki88]

No that is totally flawed and even that .com right away clues you into its not credible assertions. That website contradicts a lot of what regular teachers in Armenian schools teach. All of these that we speak of in detail ARE THEORIES. No one knows which one is correct but you are entitled to think that Armenians "settled into Asia minor from the Balkans" as well as "Armenians are the Hayasa tribe" as well as the other theories about 'Hayk and Bell' and even Noah's son being our forefather, biblically speaking. Either one is pretty valid.


The article which I used to write my piece was written by Thomas V. Gamkrelidze and V. V. Ivanov and published in Scientific American, March 1990, p.110. If you're doing any kind of university level research let's say on the subject of the Armenian language as an Indo-European language, you can quote these guys who are linguists/scientists, so it's hard to completely invalidate them. Having said that, you are right, a lot of what linguists are putting out there are merely theories some of which change over time or get more validasized (sorry I made up a word there :)

I dont' have much background about the Aryans, except that they either came out of India went through Iran and Armenia or the other way around
went to India through Armenia and Iran. Not sure what "original Aryan" means?
As far as the biblical intrepretations, I am very skeptical about those ;)

From what I know, the Hayasa came from Assyrians but have to look up that one. In any case I believe Armenians are amalgam of many people and tribes because of the geographic location of the nation and the numerous invasions etc. Just like many other tribes have Armenian genes, the modern DNA technology shows this. We all are one happy people!

[dusken]

validasized (sorry I made up a word there)

"Validated" would do the trick.

[IvyLipstick]

The article which I used to write my piece was written by Thomas V. Gamkrelidze and V. V. Ivanov and published in Scientific American, March 1990, p.110. If you're doing any kind of university level research let's say on the subject of the Armenian language as an Indo-European language, you can quote these guys who are linguists/scientists, so it's hard to completely invalidate them. Having said that, you are right, a lot of what linguists are putting out there are merely theories some of which change over time or get more validasized (sorry I made up a word there :)

I dont' have much background about the Aryans, except that they either came out of India went through Iran and Armenia or the other way around
went to India through Armenia and Iran. Not sure what "original Aryan" means?
As far as the biblical intrepretations, I am very skeptical about those ;)

From what I know, the Hayasa came from Assyrians but have to look up that one. In any case I believe Armenians are amalgam of many people and tribes because of the geographic location of the nation and the numerous invasions etc. Just like many other tribes have Armenian genes, the modern DNA technology shows this. We all are one happy people!


Look no one knows for sure. Just because you looked up a few interested linguists it still does not indicate that that piece of information is valid and final. There are LOTS of theories and very quotable ones from everywhere. What is your point?

[IvyLipstick]

Oh please here we go again:
"From what I know, the Hayasa came from Assyrians but have to look up that one. In any case I believe Armenians are amalgam of many people and tribes because of the geographic location of the nation and the numerous invasions etc."


WHERE do you draw that conclusion? You seem like you have to look up more than that. Armenians are original of and within themselves. THE PEOPLE yes have gotten mixed over the years with various people, hence the dark skin and complexion on some. That suggests that there was either an Arab or a Persian invasion. But then again every culture had that. No one is "pure."

[IvyLipstick]

Look, the source of Aryans= Armenia. That region many evidence points to that. They settled on the left to Asia minor, Greece and Italy and on the right they settled in India and Iran.

[IvyLipstick]

If Hayasa= Assyrians and ARmenians come from Hayasa then that means logically speaking Armenians= Assyrians.

And no given person with a heart of knowledge or scholar will say that ever because Armenians and Assyrians are totally different types of people who YES they had contact. Assyrians are Semitic and Armenians are not. Therefore, that theory alone can be discarded as invalid.

[kikki88]

Ok, I looked up about Hayasa and this is what it says "The oldest known ancestors of modern Armenians, the Hayasa-Azzi tribes, also known as Proto-Armenians, were indigenous to the Armenian Highland in Eastern Anatolia." The Assyrian link in my head came from the fact that the Assyrian cuneform transcriptions confirm about a tribe living North of them called Hayasa. So that was the link I was thinking about, I did not confirm that Hayasa came from Assyrians.

[kikki88]

also another armenian forum website has a similar discussion that I found interesting to read, take a look...they also discuss who is Hayasa etc.

it's on xxxxxxxx

under

How Is Urartu The First Armenian Kingdom?

(I am new to this, can someone explain to me how come the website I am trying to type in above does not show up? Thanks)

[Anonymouse]

Hayasa does not have anything to do with Assyrians, although the Assyrians did describe other peoples, it does not mean they were Semetic, no different than Greek and Roman ethnography and describing the "other peoples". The influence is more readily that of Hayasa and Indo-European, mixed with Urartean which is a Caucasian language, than anything else. But even that is a theory.

Even in Armenian lore, and other Indo-European legends the pure Aryans have always considered to be blond haired and blue eyes, and myths come down of how the Gods of the time of Hayk possessed this. This is what Hitler built upon, nothing about the blond hair and blue eyes is made up. This is what the Viracochas is about who referred to themselves as "The Sons of the Sun", which means "the white man with the red beard". And hence the Swastika and sun worship and Aryans, etc. When the Spanish came to conquer South America the Indians thought that they were the grandchildren of the peoples who were called the Viracochas.

[dusken]

... although the Assyrians did describe other peoples, it does not mean they were Semetic, no different than Greek and Roman ethnography and describing the "other peoples".

Assyrian is a branch of Akkadian which is an Eastern Semitic language.

[Anonymouse]

I believe we all know Assyrian is a Semetic language, that was not the issue. The issue is Assyrians in relation to other peoples, such as Urartu, which is an Assyrian name given to them, even though the Urarteans went by Biani, no different from Greek or Roman ethnographers in how they classified the barbarians.

[kikki88]

Anonymous, Hitler was lunatic and I think it's been written over and over that the Germans have nothing to do with Aryans. And finally I don't understand the Armenian fascination with proving that we were once blond/blue (I should admit I am one of them sometimes) Who cares? Is being dark haired with olive skin tone (which we are today) bad? Can anyone comment about this?

[Anonymouse]

Anonymous, Hitler was lunatic and I think it's been written over and over that the Germans have nothing to do with Aryans. And finally I don't understand the Armenian fascination with proving that we were once blond/blue (I should admit I am one of them sometimes) Who cares? Is being dark haired with olive skin tone (which we are today) bad? Can anyone comment about this?

It is not a fascination it is simply little sketches of facts and theories that we talk about. Because something is discomforting does not mean we can't talk about them. As far as Hitler being a lunatic, that is stupid, and in fact, reflects the stupidity of court historians and court psychologists who have made a lucrative career in trying to smear the man, as opposed to trying to have an objective study of the man. Armenians are white, at least for the most part, such as my family. No one said anything about olive skinned, it only shows Arabic and Persian mixtures. I apologize, my white skin and green eyes don't mingle with some.

[kikki88]

Try not to sound racist


I personally find "darker" Armenians very attractive ;)

[Anonymouse]

"Try not to sound racist".

Oh please be quiet. Stop trying to smear me with a political construction that came into use in the 1960s. Such invented words mean nothing. As for your attraction, good for you. Only nerfbrains would confuse talking about theories and facts surrounding Aryans or Hitler, or my own Armenians, with being racist. Armenians are not even a race.

[jgm1975]

Historians have so far been unable to assert beyond any reasonable doubt that the Urartu people were either Indo-European or Semitic. One theory that seems to have some credibility is that the Urartu were related to the present-day Georgians. There are a lot of words in the Armenian language that are of completely non-Indo-European origin, probably from the original language of the Urartu. In fact, for a while, both Armenian and Urartu were spoken (Armenian by the elite, Urartu by the masses), until Armenian took over.

[IvyLipstick]

Ok, I looked up about Hayasa and this is what it says "The oldest known ancestors of modern Armenians, the Hayasa-Azzi tribes, also known as Proto-Armenians, were indigenous to the Armenian Highland in Eastern Anatolia." The Assyrian link in my head came from the fact that the Assyrian cuneform transcriptions confirm about a tribe living North of them called Hayasa. So that was the link I was thinking about, I did not confirm that Hayasa came from Assyrians.


Your mind and words do not coincide then. You did say that that is why I took matters all into my hands to correct you. Well yes they are the oldest "known ancestors of Armenians" but who or what are they? Are they dark light tall short from where? Listen, do not rely upon Anti-Armenian scriptures to prove you some point you are curious because LOTS of scripts said LOTS of things not just in the Akkadian writings but like all over the world. Yes there are lousy sources that point or talk about them, of course. They only came in contact in their silk roads and paths like what 100 times before?

[IvyLipstick]

Historians have so far been unable to assert beyond any reasonable doubt that the Urartu people were either Indo-European or Semitic. One theory that seems to have some credibility is that the Urartu were related to the present-day Georgians. There are a lot of words in the Armenian language that are of completely non-Indo-European origin, probably from the original language of the Urartu. In fact, for a while, both Armenian and Urartu were spoken (Armenian by the elite, Urartu by the masses), until Armenian took over.


Right thus far that is the most valid theory but they also say like because the Urartu was dying off Armenians simply absorbed them into our culture. You can tell that is true because the Urartu were dark red complected and black haired people kind of tall. Others also concur that it was one of the Armenian tribes a while back that was fortunate enough to form its own kingdom.

[IvyLipstick]

Try not to sound racist


I personally find "darker" Armenians very attractive ;)

How is that racist? Only a racist person has those racist intentions and thoughts and confuses others with it.

As for your taste, well if you find Bin Laden look alikes very sexy, then fine. :coughs: *lack of taste*

[IvyLipstick]

Anonymous, Hitler was lunatic and I think it's been written over and over that the Germans have nothing to do with Aryans. And finally I don't understand the Armenian fascination with proving that we were once blond/blue (I should admit I am one of them sometimes) Who cares? Is being dark haired with olive skin tone (which we are today) bad? Can anyone comment about this?


That is what the xxxs PORTRAY Hitler to be because they demonize those they hate. That really has no bearing in this discussion. And if you looked at your history, kid, GERMANS have all that there is to do with ARYANS.

I implied this earlier and you still are at loggerheads. One more time:

ARYANS and ARYAN PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH NAZI GERMANY. THEY USED THE ARYAN TITLE FOR A DIFFERENT CAUSE JUST LIKE THE SWASTIKA. THAT LITTLE SYMBOL WAS ONCE USED BY ROMANS AND ARMENIANS FOR A DIFFERENT MOTIVE. ARYANS ALL HAVE A RICH HISTORY BEHIND IT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NAZIS. Are we clear now?

[IvyLipstick]

Anonymous, Hitler was lunatic and I think it's been written over and over that the Germans have nothing to do with Aryans. And finally I don't understand the Armenian fascination with proving that we were once blond/blue (I should admit I am one of them sometimes) Who cares? Is being dark haired with olive skin tone (which we are today) bad? Can anyone comment about this?


WHAT?! Kid, listen ALL White people were light complected with blue/green eyes. It is not a "fascination" it is a true genetically biological fact. The red blonde hair with the blue green eyes is a WHITE GENETIC MUTATION going back to Biology. And who is we?! Most of the Armenians I know are really light colored. Please do not mold your Arabic/Persian mixed genes with the rest of my friends, thank you. Every WHITE person or culture from Italians to Spaniards and Armenians were very LIGHT skinned and light eyed and haired. It is just that the several culture clashes they had with the dark people e.g. Arabs and Persians, and since DARK genes dominate, they turned and came out looking like them.


Italians (all white at first) 400 years later after Rome had Arabs from North AFrica invade them and pillage THUS spreading and turning all of their genes (south Italy) dark with dark eyes hair and skin.

Spaniards (all white at first) before the unification of Aragon and the two divided Kingdoms (Isabella and Ferdinand) they also were pillaged by darkies (Moors aka Arabs) from northern Africa THUS GIVING and SPREADING all of that dark gene inside them (southern Spain).

Armenia (all white at first) but unfortunately they had a myriad of pillagings from dark people from the middle east that carried that dark gene i.e. Arabs and Persians then finally Turks who came from central Asia. Then, 1000 years later after that Aryan movement and Armenia slowly becomes a kingdom in Anatolia, the dark genes also dilate and SPREAD amongst Armenians thus now giving THEM the dark genes and or skin (southern Armenia and all around).

[IvyLipstick]

And just because a certain group of people POINT OUT and ACKNOWLEDGE in their texts of that place slapping it every label it does not mean that it is automatically a product of that race or ethnicity. The Romans refer to Armenia a little bit as well and France and Germany saying they were "barbarians." What, that means it is true? Germans are a product of Romans except they were the ugly "barbarian half?"

[IvyLipstick]

also another armenian forum website has a similar discussion that I found interesting to read, take a look...they also discuss who is Hayasa etc.

it's on xxxxxxxx

under

How Is Urartu The First Armenian Kingdom?

(I am new to this, can someone explain to me how come the website I am trying to type in above does not show up? Thanks) No no, it is just like the Etruscans and the Romans. They say they were both ETHNICALLY STILL Italians. However, since among those two groups one always dominates the other, the Romans came up on top. Same with Urartu they say like it was an Armenian kingdom whom 1st all of the Assyrians refered to as "arartu" to supposedly classify it as Ararat. But really, no one knows for a fact what they exactly were. Most scholars say it was just another Armenian kingdom that prospered a little too fast. Just like Nairi. Again, another unification of a few tribes but not ALL of the Tribes as it was done during the 200s AD.

[IvyLipstick]

Armenians I am afraid have a lot of enemies such as the xxxs that publish a lot of skewed perspectives to really tamper with your facts. Some say Armenians did not even exist, that is why every piece of false info. you read that is too stupid to appear true, you probably should question its validity and source.

[kikki88]

Armenians I am afraid have a lot of enemies such as the xxxs that publish a lot of skewed perspectives to really tamper with your facts. Some say Armenians did not even exist, that is why every piece of false info. you read that is too stupid to appear true, you probably should question its validity and source.

I've heard xxxs refer to Armenians in Israel/Palestine as Arabs. I also heard Arabs classifying Armenians as type of Arabs. Sounds bizarre, right? In fact, recently there was an article published in the UC Irvine online newspaper that appeared in Groong where an Egyptian Arab was claiming how Armenians are Semitic (???) and that we are brothers. I wrote a letter correcting this mistake. Basically I felt like if we don't have "the guns" in our hands constantly proving who we are, we'll be thrown into some category of Arabs and pretty soon be wiped out of the history books.

[kikki88]

Also, I want to mention one thing. Like written before, I am new to this forum (btw much older than most of you ;) and I am glad Armenians are interacting in these forums. However, what's with the name calling. If we don't respect ourselves how do we expect others to respect us? These kind of intellectual arguments need to be intellectual idea/thought exchanges and we should respect each others opinions because without diverse opinion we can never have a healthy Armenian nation. We post things to exchange thoughts, we are not competing on who knows more or who is better or who has the best facts. We simply want to learn from each other. Let's respect each other! Thanks.

[Anonymouse]

I've heard xxxs refer to Armenians in Israel/Palestine as Arabs. I also heard Arabs classifying Armenians as type of Arabs. Sounds bizarre, right? In fact, recently there was an article published in the UC Irvine online newspaper that appeared in Groong where an Egyptian Arab was claiming how Armenians are Semitic (???) and that we are brothers. I wrote a letter correcting this mistake. Basically I felt like if we don't have "the guns" in our hands constantly proving who we are, we'll be thrown into some category of Arabs and pretty soon be wiped out of the history books.

See, this is the danger with alot of Americans who classify Armenians as "Arabs" or "sand niggers". I personally new a Lebanese Armenian girl, whos father was arrested due to the 911 charges, but when the authorities found out he was Christian, they let him go. What sort of bullshyt is this?

[Anonymouse]

Also, I want to mention one thing. Like written before, I am new to this forum (btw much older than most of you ;) and I am glad Armenians are interacting in these forums. However, what's with the name calling. If we don't respect ourselves how do we expect others to respect us? These kind of intellectual arguments need to be intellectual idea/thought exchanges and we should respect each others opinions because without diverse opinion we can never have a healthy Armenian nation. We post things to exchange thoughts, we are not competing on who knows more or who is better or who has the best facts. We simply want to learn from each other. Let's respect each other! Thanks.

I agree, but just as a side note, you have to kind of get used to the forums. Do not take things seriously at all, that is the first mistake anyone makes here. Nothing is as it appears.

[kikki88]

I agree, but just as a side note, you have to kind of get used to the forums. Do not take things seriously at all, that is the first mistake anyone makes here. Nothing is as it appears.

Thanks for the comment Anonymouse! Of course, I thought that it's just a forum thing but was kinda skeptical at the same time. It's an Armenian thing, we express our LOVE through obscenities.

[kikki88]

See, this is the danger with alot of Americans who classify Armenians as "Arabs" or "sand niggers". I personally new a Lebanese Armenian girl, whos father was arrested due to the 911 charges, but when the authorities found out he was Christian, they let him go. What sort of bullshyt is this?

American foreign policy is only aimed at OIL. For this same reason Armenia, the only Christian country, was enlisted as a terrorist country (by mistake as later corrected) of whose people had to register with INS. And "suprisingly" Turkey's sneaky lobbying had a role in it.

[Anonymouse]

American foreign policy is only aimed at OIL. For this same reason Armenia, the only Christian country, was enlisted as a terrorist country (by mistake as later corrected) of whose people had to register with INS. And "suprisingly" Turkey's sneaky lobbying had a role in it.

I wouldn't be surprised. As far as America's foreign policy driven by oil, that is only a third of it. It is mainly the interests of xxxs and Israel.

[IvyLipstick]

I've heard xxxs refer to Armenians in Israel/Palestine as Arabs. I also heard Arabs classifying Armenians as type of Arabs. Sounds bizarre, right? In fact, recently there was an article published in the UC Irvine online newspaper that appeared in Groong where an Egyptian Arab was claiming how Armenians are Semitic (???) and that we are brothers. I wrote a letter correcting this mistake. Basically I felt like if we don't have "the guns" in our hands constantly proving who we are, we'll be thrown into some category of Arabs and pretty soon be wiped out of the history books.'

Look it is UP TO YOU ARMENIANS to correct them. They are all doing this on purpose.

[IvyLipstick]

THE ONLY REASON why these xxxish zionists think that is because ARMENIANS convey the impression that they are Arabs like that idiot Darorinag and the other Persian waste that constantly boasts about middle eastern islamic culture. See., to us Americans that conveys the impression that 1) you support them or 2) you are a part of them because otherwise why would you play their music at your weddings and try to dress like them and protect them?! It is time for you Armenians to wake up.

[IvyLipstick]

My best advice to Armenians to save yourselves from the MISCONCEPTION and false notions in people's minds here that will later cost you your lives: STOP PLAYING ARABIC MUSIC IN YOUR TRADITIONAL WEDDINGS. CLEANSE YOUR PEOPLE STOP TRYING TO LOOK OR DRESS LIKE PERSIANS OR ARABS.

[IvyLipstick]

Bush MADE A MISTAKE when he realized that Armenia was not a middle-eastern country. That comes to show you halfwits like darorinag who say "they are not after middle eastern people come on one person s views cant mess anything up.'

BOOM that is your proof, YES IT CAN and Anony s incident is all the proof that you need to serve as a caution and warning.

[Anonymouse]

American foreign policy is only aimed at OIL. For this same reason Armenia, the only Christian country, was enlisted as a terrorist country (by mistake as later corrected) of whose people had to register with INS. And "suprisingly" Turkey's sneaky lobbying had a role in it.

I believe that to accept only this view in itself would by myopic. Oil is self-evident. People always try to blame America for the oil, but that is not the real issue. Sure, America is an empire, sure it needs oil to maintain its hegemony. However, oil was not the main issue for this war, it was xxxish Zionist interests in the Bush Administration ( namely Paul Wolfowitz and RIchard Perle, dual citizens of Israel ) that perpetuated falsehoods in an effort to start war, because Islam threatens their Zionist utopia.

www.nowarforisrael.com

[dusken]

THE ONLY REASON why these xxxish zionists think that is because ARMENIANS convey the impression that they are Arabs like that idiot Darorinag and the other Persian waste that constantly boasts about middle eastern islamic culture. See., to us Americans that conveys the impression that 1) you support them or 2) you are a part of them because otherwise why would you play their music at your weddings and try to dress like them and protect them?! It is time for you Armenians to wake up.

I am not sure what it is we are doing. Can you explain it differently? There is no denying that Armenians come from the Middle East and that cultural elements of that region are very undefine. Like who came up with the beat boom tam tiki tam boom tiki tam tiki? Who knows? And Armenians are no different from other races in that they adopt certain tastes for the culture of the country they reside in. When I listen to jazz I am not less Armenian. When I listen to Pink Floyd I am not losing my culture to England. Also, I have not read anyone here boasting of Islamic culture unless it is to defend it against xxxish propaganda. Oh and Armenians do not dress like Muslims. I do not know where you got that one. People just like to ignore the fact that Armenia is Christian and has been for seventeen hundred years and that they have been in that region for much longer still.

[IvyLipstick]

I am not sure what it is we are doing. Can you explain it differently? There is no denying that Armenians come from the Middle East and that cultural elements of that region are very undefine. Like who came up with the beat boom tam tiki tam boom tiki tam tiki? Who knows? And Armenians are no different from other races in that they adopt certain tastes for the culture of the country they reside in. When I listen to jazz I am not less Armenian. When I listen to Pink Floyd I am not losing my culture to England. Also, I have not read anyone here boasting of Islamic culture unless it is to defend it against xxxish propaganda. Oh and Armenians do not dress like Muslims. I do not know where you got that one. People just like to ignore the fact that Armenia is Christian and has been for seventeen hundred years and that they have been in that region for much longer still.


Are you honestly slow? Armenia is a mountainous, landlocked country, on the southeastern edge of Europe, and at the gateway to the Middle East, and all of Asia. WE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT ARMENIANS ARE NOT MIDDLE EASTERN. You guys do not come from the middle east. Just because a few of you guys resided there during the diaspora of the genocide, it still does not mean you come from that region, learn to wise up kid. Look at that map, the URAL mountains are what divide EUROPE from ASIA and any country LEFT of the Ural moutains and above the ARAS river is EUROPEAN. ARMENIAN IS LEFT OF THAT MARGINAL LINE. Just because you cannot stomach your own lack of knowledge does not mean you should start throwing daggers. Look here this is an accurate recent map:

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eu.htm

Look at where Armenia is. You guys had the misfortune of dealing and intermixing with those people that oppressed your people i.e. the middle eastern groups: Arabs and Persians.

[IvyLipstick]

I am not sure what it is we are doing. Can you explain it differently? There is no denying that Armenians come from the Middle East and that cultural elements of that region are very undefine. Like who came up with the beat boom tam tiki tam boom tiki tam tiki? Who knows? And Armenians are no different from other races in that they adopt certain tastes for the culture of the country they reside in. When I listen to jazz I am not less Armenian. When I listen to Pink Floyd I am not losing my culture to England. Also, I have not read anyone here boasting of Islamic culture unless it is to defend it against xxxish propaganda. Oh and Armenians do not dress like Muslims. I do not know where you got that one. People just like to ignore the fact that Armenia is Christian and has been for seventeen hundred years and that they have been in that region for much longer still.


What it is you are doing? YOU ARE BOASTING FOR ARABS AND ROOTING FOR ALL OF THESE PERSIANS THAT ONCE USED YOU ALL LIKE BUTT WIPES and nowadays the U.S. despises those cretins for simply being that conniving yet ARMENIANS ARE STILL supporting Arabs and Persians. Look at that, at your own traditional weddings you guys play Turkish Arabic and Persian music, when these people see you guys are morons who once pillaged Armenia and still do not care to acknowledge that. THAT is what you are doing. You are selling out your own people to a bunch of nothings and conveying the impression that you guys are middle eastern sympathizers. You tell the American gov. that "yes we are these people from the desert too yes these people are related to us that you are bombing" when there is not even one iota of desert in Armenia nor is there islam.

[IvyLipstick]

Dunceken, you proved you are not qualified and lost credibility from the start in your assertions because you just refered to Armenians as a "race" when you are not. You already proved you are stupid by saying all of that.

[IvyLipstick]

First of all you are in a country that is a product of England therefore listen to all of the Led Zeppelin you want and Pink Floyd you want. However, you can listen to it on your free time as many times as you want BUT YOU GUYS DO IT IN YOUR CULTURAL TRADITIONAL WEDDINGS. That is embarassingly wrong. OMG LOL You guys moan about how bad you had it amongst Turks yet I see a lot more Armenians supporting their music than anyone else. You really make no sense and you should honestly for your own safety stop. IF you were to listen to it on your WEDDING day as your cultural traditional music gets substituted for that metal music, then you pretty much expose yourself as something you are not. Remember, there is a certain time and place for all of these things and Turkish music at an Armenian baptizing is not the right place or time for it.

[IvyLipstick]

I am not sure what it is we are doing. Can you explain it differently? There is no denying that Armenians come from the Middle East and that cultural elements of that region are very undefine. Like who came up with the beat boom tam tiki tam boom tiki tam tiki? Who knows? And Armenians are no different from other races in that they adopt certain tastes for the culture of the country they reside in. When I listen to jazz I am not less Armenian. When I listen to Pink Floyd I am not losing my culture to England. Also, I have not read anyone here boasting of Islamic culture unless it is to defend it against xxxish propaganda. Oh and Armenians do not dress like Muslims. I do not know where you got that one. People just like to ignore the fact that Armenia is Christian and has been for seventeen hundred years and that they have been in that region for much longer still.


When and where did I say otherwise? How can you even twist my words logically around to say that I said that about Armenia? Yes Armenia was the first nation to adopt Christianity as its religion. We know that. I never said they "dressed like muslims." I said they supported their culture LIKE IT OR NOT by listening to their music on their traditional ceremonies thus presenting their culture as one of those desert tribes who bow to a rug. You guys leave that impression and again for your safety you should look a little outside your own box to put an end to that nonsense ASAP, otherwise the PAtriot Act will take its toll and people will reject your "genocide" argument more than they already do, since you prove to us that you are advocates of the enemy. You sleep with the enemy when you do that and the enemy for America now= Arabs Persians and anything else islamic and middle eastern. Armenia being a CHRISTIAN nation has already served as schism to divide you from being middle eastern and as a part of those ethnic groups in the middle east.

[IvyLipstick]

The present-day Republic of Armenia occupies but a fraction of the ancient Armenia, which extended from the lesser Caucasus Mountains south across the Armenian plateau to the Taurus Mountains. Armenians' main roots are all sources derived from that Aryan movement dating back about 1200 B.C. from the Balkans and that is WHY Armenians are the original Europeans (aka the real white men). Geography undoubtedly played a key role in the history and culture of Armenia. Forming an important highway of great value for trade and commerce between Asia and Europe, Armenia it seems was destined to be at grips with adversity.

Armenians now a days look the way they look because for a succession of centuries, the Armenians were in constant warfare with invaders and conquerors - Assyrians, Romans, Byzantines, Parthians, Arabs, Persians and Turks - all of whom are dark complected (minus the romans and byzantines) and who rolled over their homeland, although certainly not without meeting the most stubborn resistance. Throughout these turbulent centuries, the Armenians successfully asserted their historical identity and upheld their national heritage against great odds but sadly were transformed physically and socially due to that.

[dusken]

There was nothing in any of that pure phucking bullshyt worth responding to. Go mastur6ate somewhere else. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[dusken]

Dunceken, you proved you are not qualified and lost credibility from the start in your assertions because you just refered to Armenians as a "race" when you are not. You already proved you are stupid by saying all of that.


Oh and, by the way:

a definition of "race":
A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution

No need to make stupid, over-used puns like "dunceken." You would bow to me if you knew me.

[IvyLipstick]

Oh and, by the way:

a definition of "race":
A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution

No need to make stupid, over-used puns like "dunceken." You would bow to me if you knew me.
Oh arrogance at its height again with you? He is here defaming you you dupe. What the hell are you attacking me for? Yes that is ONE definition of "race" and I hope you did not burn your last 2 brain cells thinking of that.

[IvyLipstick]

World's races are as follows (the categories that is don't argue with me argue with anthropology experts):

1) White (Caucasian)
2) Black
3) Yellow (middle east and asia)
4) Red (Native Americans)
5) Brown (present day "latinos")

Armenians fall under WHITE and I do not see why you are trying to refute that.

[dusken]

Again, you are calling me a dupe for no reason. You are upset because when I used the word "race" I was not using it with the definition you like the most. Phuck off.

[IvyLipstick]

Again, you are calling me a dupe for no reason. You are upset because when I used the word "race" I was not using it with the definition you like the most. Phuck off.



I like accuracy therefore no I disliked the way you distorted the definition.
Here is the only way I can sum this up in a nutshell for you:


Around the year 2000 BC, originating in the Caucasus, a sun worshipping Indo-European tribe calling themselves Aryans, using a language known as Sanskrit, invaded central Asia and occupied territory as far as the north of India. These invaders were what became known as the original Aryans.

In fact, all of those countries spanning their age of conquest bear names directly related to them - India, Iran, Iraq are all corruptions of the original word "Aryan". (Far off distant racial cousins of the Aryans went west, penetrating as far as Ireland, giving the name "Eire" to that land - also a derivative of the word Aryan).
Is that clear? Thank you good bye. :wave:

[Armenian]

Within the Armenian highlands (comprising the present territories of north-eastern Iran, eastern Turkey, south Caucasus), the sun was revered second to none. The sun was the physical manifestation of the supreme deity in the heavens. During the classical period, Aramazd (an Armenianized version of the Iranian supreme god Ahura-Mazda of Zoroastrianism) symbolized by the Zoroastrian sun/fire, was the supreme deity of the Armenian highlands. Sun worship was so profound within Armenian territories that many of its rituals and theosophies were incorporated within Armenian Apostolic Church, which was officially founded in 301 A.D. and even as late as the nineteenth century, there were isolated pockets of sun worship being practiced. Of historical importance is a medieval Armenian source (eight centuries after the conversion of Armenians to Christianity) describing a resilient Armenian sun cult whose adherents were known as "Arevorti", sons (children) of the sun (light).

It is suggested by Armenologists that even the essence of the compound word "Ar-men-ia,” implies sun worship. The prefix Ar, the first syllable of Armenia, is the primordial root word for Areg or Arev (sun). This pre-historic root word for the sun also manifests its-self as the pre-historic Armenian god Ara popularly known in Armenian historiography as Ara the Fair, the primordial god most commonly associated with agriculture and spring. The second component of the compound word men obviously designates group of people. The final component of the compound word ia designates a geographic location.

It should be noted here that the Armenian Highlands were not the exclusive location were the god Ara was revered and worshiped. According to Armenian scholars Ghapantsian and Kavookjian, the worship of the cult of Ara s they term it, could be observed within the worship of various peoples throughout the ancient Near-East and Europe. For the Urartians the deity was known as Ardi; within the Hellenic world he was known as Ares, Aras and Er, Germanic tribes recognized him as Ertag; among the Celts of Ireland he was manifested as Ir, within Georgia he was called Arali, among Slavic tribes he was know as Yar or Yarilo, within Mesopotamia Ar was worshiped as Aria and Aru. It is interesting to note at this time that the sun god Ra (Ra-Amon) of ancient Egypt might very well have been a corrupted (reversed) form of the root word of the god Ara. Ar or Ara may very well have been introduced into Egypt by the conquering Hyksos tribes who Armenian historians speculate originated somewhere within the territories of the Armenian Highlands. Thus, the compound word Armenia may very well imply – the land of the god Ar or the land of sun worshipers.

[Lothar]

We have heard genetic explanation. But now we should look at what even forms and moulds such genetics.Environment and nutrition: our genes are shaped by these factors. The reason why darker skin and eye colors appear as they are is because there is an increased concentration of the pigment, melanin in the body and cells. When sunlight hits the skin it initiates and causes the process of melanogenesis (melanin pigment formation) which darkens the skin. When we go to area where there is an increased amount of sun and exposure we see darker skin, e.g.: Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, India, South America, Mexico, especially Africa. Now when we go to an area where there is less sun or people are less exposed to the sun, there is typically lighter skin, eye and hair colors (e.g. Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Russia, Switzerland, Germany, etc). Nutrition is also a significant impactor of skin color, because as humans we constantly expose ourselves to food and other nutritional sources that promote (vitamin D, L- tyrosine, etc) or inhibit (alpha-linolenic acid, lipoic acid, vitamins C, B3, E, L-tryptophan, lactic acid, etc.) the process of melanogenesis occurring within the cells of our bodies. For example, sauer kraut is a food which contains lactic acid (so does yogurt but this also contains vitamin D), maybe that is why the Germans are still so light :.) And: "Nutritional environment combined with genetic inheritance yields what is called the "phenotype" of the individual, his or her observable size, shape and function." (Genetic Nutritioneering by JS Bland, Ph.D. (1999), pg. 3). Thus, throughout time these genes add up and being dominant traits they tend to suppress or rid of the lighter colors and shades.