U.S. House of Representatives adopts Armenian Genocide Amendment

[HyeJinx1984]

Has this been talked about yet? if not, here ya go. Found out about on the System of a Down website of all places...

PRESS RELEASE (http://www.anca.org/anca/pressrel.asp?prID=603)

However, there has been opposition to this amendmant coming from the conservatives. To rip them a new one and hear what they have to say, go here:

REDNECKS COMPLAIN ABOUT HELPING ARMENIANS AND BUGGING THE TURKS (http://capwiz.com/anca/mail/compose/?alertid=6135466&agencyid=6135186&agencyid=6135196&agencyid=6135201&target=CU&target=CU&target=CU&customid=6135186&customid=6135196&customid=6135201&type=CU)

[Anonymouse]

I bet, that the leading oppositions come from those who have their loyalties not only to Turkey, but Israel as well.

[HyeJinx1984]

Politically, you can look at Israel and Turkey as the same, their caught in a perpetual 69 with th U.S. constantly coming up behind one of them at one point or the other. But the amendment has been passed, and we're good.. for now. The thing is, if we don't do anything with this oppertunity it's possible that down the line this thing can be reversed.

Just the other day i was talking to my friend about how movies about the armenian genocide, such as "40 days of musa dagh," a film my friend wrote, always come under constant fire from the Turkish and Israeli lobbyists and are always backed by the U.S. government. Those days are over it seems like, we can start spreading the news about the Genocide without people stepping on our toes as much.

So... what do we do now?

[Darorinag]

Umm, last time I checked, Turkey and Israel WERE allies anyway. No wonder the USHMM mentions nothing about the Armenian genocide on its website, while having tons of material on Darfur, and the Simon Wiesenthal Centre removed an Armenian genocide exhibition...

Someone is in Turkey's bed, and likes it there. (or maybe it's the other way around?)

[HyeJinx1984]

What does this mean for us as a people though, undoubtedly it's a good thing.. but some doors have just opened that could help our agenda along.. I'm just not sure what doors those are. Any ideas?

[Darorinag]

I don't think it means anything at all. It's just a bait to keep us happy for some time.

[HyeJinx1984]

I don't think it means anything at all. It's just a bait to keep us happy for some time.

A stupid fish takes the bait and gets caught. a smart fish sees the bait and grabs onto the line, yanking the fisherman into the water. Are we stupid fish or smart fish?

[Anonymouse]

This belongs in the Armenian politics thread. You have a history of posting shyt in the wrong forum "homie".

[Darorinag]

I think we're stupid fish. If we hadn't been, we would've had the genocide recognised long before the xxxs got theirs recognised (not that it's a contest or antyhing). Now, as for smart fish, I would define it as xxxs. No matter how much I dislike him, I must admit, they know what they're doing. Not that I advocate their actions. But it doesn't mean they're not smart.

[Darorinag]

This belongs in the Armenian politics thread. You have a history of posting shyt in the wrong forum "homie".
Or the Armenian genocide section. You have a history of making the wrong suggestions/corrections. :laugh:

[HyeJinx1984]

Originally this was in the political forum, but I moved it because I actually wanted people to respond to this, and I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have happened in the political forum since basically no one goes there anymore. It gets the most exposure here.... even thugh so far only you two have said anything.

[xBaron Dants]

Just for you HyeJinx...

It seems to be a purely symbolic amendment, with interesting potential. From what I understood, it says that Turkey cannot spend any money given by the US on genocide denial. This won't prevent genocide denial obviously, and I don't think that the US will actually track how Turkey is spending the money.

Why it can be very positive is that it would de facto imply that the House of Reps recognizes the Armenian genocide, or rather, will not participate in its denial. Now, can anyone give me a crash course on US policy-making? As this amendment news is rather old, and I did read some things about it being removed, and the White House opposing it. Any news on that? If the House of Reps adopts it, is it a done deal, or can it be revoked?

[HyeJinx1984]

Well, the fact that it's an amendment means it can probably be amended again, which is why people are worried that these three republican congress men are trying to do.

However, I got the link of the System website, and the way they worded it was interesting.. saying that Turkey could no longer use the money to "Lobby against people trying to expose the genocide."

As a filmmaker this means something very special to me, because films like the recent Ararat which got such limited release as well as any other film that tackles the Armenian genocide may now be allowed to be released in large theater chains and not come under too much pressure by the Turkish lobbyist groups.

[xBaron Dants]

The fact remains that they can't use US given money, right?
They can still use their own money all they want..

[HyeJinx1984]

True... damnit, stupid Kerkorian, now I'm gonna jump to the other thread to talk about Kerkorian and movies.

[Darorinag]

Why it can be very positive is that it would de facto imply that the House of Reps recognizes the Armenian genocide, or rather, will not participate in its denial.
I think what the U.S is doing is trying to just put an end to all this Armenian genocide talk in the States, and this is a step towards that. It just doesn't want to be involved in anything that has to do with it - I think the government has figured out that's the best policy. This doesn't mean, however, that the U.S is not expressing an opinion towards the genocide. For to ignore a simple human rights issue as the Armenian genocide is the equivalent of denying it, because no justice is being done to those who perished, those who survived, as well as historical truth. Year after year they make a speech about the "tragic death" of Armenians. It's a way of numbing the mind. :rolleyes:

[HyeJinx1984]

Or maybe this is the attitude that makes Armenians so unenthused when it comes to being active. I mean, Armenians themselves don't really do as much as they can. I look at Serj Tankian who is at the moment my favorite Armenian of all time. Through charities, music, orginizations, programs and Armenian-agenda pushing projects he is an inspiration to me.. and I really don't see many people in the Armenian community doing the same. Maybe if we didn't sit around and say "Eh, nothing will come of it" we may actually be able to stand up and make a difference.

[xBaron Dants]

Agreed HyeJinx.

There are many, many ways to get involved, and most people would just rather b!tch anyways.

[HyeJinx1984]

Well, we are b!tchers by nature... we just have to know who to b!tch too and where to b!tch at

[xBaron Dants]

Builders by nature. We became b!tchers with time.

[HyeJinx1984]

So where are we building Neo-Ani?

[xBaron Dants]

So where are we building Neo-Ani?

Oh, we're not going to build that. We're just going to build a fence on its North, South and West sides. After that, some renovations will suffice.

[Darorinag]

Or maybe this is the attitude that makes Armenians so unenthused when it comes to being active. I mean, Armenians themselves don't really do as much as they can. I look at Serj Tankian who is at the moment my favorite Armenian of all time. Through charities, music, orginizations, programs and Armenian-agenda pushing projects he is an inspiration to me.. and I really don't see many people in the Armenian community doing the same. Maybe if we didn't sit around and say "Eh, nothing will come of it" we may actually be able to stand up and make a difference.
Umm, there's nothing wrong with being realistic and assessing your enemy's actions and coordinate changes.. It doesn't mean you're saying "it's pointless" or "nothing will come out of it." :rolleyes:

[HyeJinx1984]

Oh, we're not going to build that. We're just going to build a fence on its North, South and West sides. After that, some renovations will suffice.

Speaking of Ani, I was gonna name my company "The Lion Gate" but since there's already a "Lion's Gate" that would get all confusing.. oh well.

[HyeJinx1984]

Umm, there's nothing wrong with being realistic and assessing your enemy's actions and coordinate changes.. It doesn't mean you're saying "it's pointless" or "nothing will come out of it." :rolleyes:

True, but arm-chair warriors don't help either, not that I'm saying in any way that you are one. Simply by being here an dsharing ideas and talking about these things we';re being more active than 90% of the people out there.. but we're still not doing as much as we can..... simply because there's no such thing as enough.

[Darorinag]

True, but arm-chair warriors don't help either, not that I'm saying in any way that you are one. Simply by being here an dsharing ideas and talking about these things we';re being more active than 90% of the people out there.. but we're still not doing as much as we can..... simply because there's no such thing as enough.
So what should regular Armenians do? Yes, the rabiz folk in glendale aren't helping at all, but your average Armenian is not born a propagandist, really. Or an activist. Plus, if you want to be heard these days, you must have connections or money (like the book publishing business). I suppose we could produce more genocide historians than we have right now, but I think we're clear on that anyway. Our concern is mainly politics. And politics is where we're failing. Anyway, Armenians should spend less time worrying about which party (Rep. or Dem.) to lobby for. :rolleyes: It's not gonna make any difference which party they lobby for, because both are faithful to Israel, and as long as they are, nothing will come out of it. And it doesn't hurt to be realistic about these things. On the contrary, I think it provides us with a better perspective, that would enable us, in the future, to find other means to enhance our cause.

[HyeJinx1984]

Before I ever allow my dreams to get TOO big (yea right...), is there any loop hole in which we could undo that treaty signed years ago between Turkey and Armenia stating that the territories taken by us would remain in Turkey's possession?

[Darorinag]

At the risk of sounding pessimistic - It matters very little. Who's going to enforce it? Armenians? Yeah right. Like we could. USA? Yeah right. Like it would..

Armenians should do what xxxs did. Focus more on propaganda. Yes, propaganda. Damn, at this point, it doesn't matter who's right historically and who's wrong. I see the Turks producing huge amounts of propaganda, while Armenians naively sticking to their "historians" without even providing ANY propaganda support to these intellectuals. How long can they last against the propaganda dished out by the deniers? The problem is, we're too "moral" in our attempts to get the genocide recnogised. We must use more propaganda, even at the risk of sounding like xxxs. At this point, I care very little. Because if we wait for another 80 years, you better scratch genocide recognition off your list of things to support. Propaganda is the answer.The Soviets did it. The Allies did it. The xxxs did it. The Nazis did it (and it brought them the immense support). In other words, they all succeeded.

[jilbagh]

http://speaker.house.gov/library/intrelations/040716SchiffAmend.shtml

[HyeJinx1984]

I've never been against propoganda as a way to get your point across.

[HyeJinx1984]

http://speaker.house.gov/library/intrelations/040716SchiffAmend.shtml

And my mom gets mad at me when I say "xxxx America"

and my dad gets mad at me when I say "republicans are full of xxxx"

[Darorinag]

lol... I read the stuff on that page... that's totally idiotic.. what does that have anything to do with economic ties with Turkey? Why do they need to whine about Turkey not being allowed to use U.S aid money to deny the genocide? It's not like they're prohibiting them from spending the money on other things...