The Year 2084?

[dikranjohn]

[FONT=Garamond]The Year 2084? (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dikran.yegye/Exodus%20of%20Armenians%20and%20the%20year%202084. htm)

i have decided to write this article to inform the Armenian Diaspora what is really happening in Armenia regarding Immigration based on actual figures from Ministry Immigration, of instead of pure Speculation.

The question is when Armenia will adopt a policy to increase the population and in order to score a higher economical growth

[Thai-Samurai]

thats kind of funny, goerge orwell's 1984, and now Armenia's 2084. lol anyway actually no dont worry there will always be armenians in armenian, its impossible for every single last person to leave.

[Anonymouse]

This is nothing new. I have been saying this all along, and it is only a matter of time. But the stupid apathetic Armenians here in the Diaspora are anything but tuned in to this. With some reality TV and "clubbin" who cares if a nation goes asunder. One look at the idiots on the profiles here on Armenianclub will show you the future of the Diasporan Armenians. Sad, but the quality is defunct.

Samurai, please don't be naive.

[Thai-Samurai]

dude im not being naive, think about it, Armenia is a country w/ some resources atleast. There will always be people there. It's not like every last villager is gonna sell his cows, and move to LA. There will always be someone who realizes it would be better to stay and become president of Armenian than to move to LA and work construction. And entire nation is not going to abandon their country.

[Thai-Samurai]

hold on I JUST changed my mind. I hope everyone leaves Armenia; I'll move in, take all the lands, make it my own country. YAAY problem solved.

[Anonymouse]

dude im not being naive, think about it, Armenia is a country w/ some resources atleast. There will always be people there. It's not like every last villager is gonna sell his cows, and move to LA. There will always be someone who realizes it would be better to stay and become president of Armenian than to move to LA and work construction. And entire nation is not going to abandon their country.

What does having resources have anything to do with people being there? What resources does it have? Nothing in demand that's for sure. Furthermore, it is precisely its lack of resources that is debilitating. Apparently, for someone who is well versed in wishful thinking, history and politics cannot phase him, for he is better off in his imaginitive fancy, than coming to grips with actual demographics and population shifts.

[Thai-Samurai]

what im saying is if everyone leaves armenia, someone else will take it. So why dont Armenians just keep it.

[Anonymouse]

Not just someone else, Turks. Precisely what the dilemma is. And it won't be called "Armenia" either. Do you get it now?

[Thai-Samurai]

Yeah thats why the day wont come where there will be no armenians in armenia, besides the less armenians there are, the more land will belong to each individual, making politics less complicated, that's always a good thing.

[nairi]

I think Armenia has great potential to grow into a modern functioning society. Even if it won't end up attracting (old) diasporans back, it will attract people to stay there. Armenia is going through very big changes as we speak. No. It has not gone backwards, as far as I can see. It's definitely moving forward, albeit very slowly and painfully.

[Thai-Samurai]

thanx, thats my point exactly

[CatWoman]

I really think (hope) the immigration will stop soon because Armenia has been improving.... The government (or people) just need to create more JOBs so all the unemployed population can work and afford having more kids and supporting them. What's sad it seeing people go to universities there and graduate and having to move to foreign countries to work!

[HyeJinx1984]

At the end of the day, we need jobs. End of story.

[Thai-Samurai]

wait a second, no one wants a job at the end of the day. thats what you want during the day, the last thing you want at the end of the day is a job.

[Anonymouse]

Yeah thats why the day wont come where there will be no armenians in armenia, besides the less armenians there are, the more land will belong to each individual, making politics less complicated, that's always a good thing.

Do you even know what you are talking about? Numbers are everything. The less Armenians, the far more easier it is for someone else to march in and take it. Don't be a fool as usual.

[Anonymouse]

I really think (hope) the immigration will stop soon because Armenia has been improving.... The government (or people) just need to create more JOBs so all the unemployed population can work and afford having more kids and supporting them. What's sad it seeing people go to universities there and graduate and having to move to foreign countries to work!

You mean emigration not immigration, and no the government doesn't create jobs or improve the economy. That's what we call socialism, and it is utter failure.

[dikranjohn]

Yeah thats why the day wont come where there will be no armenians in armenia, besides the less armenians there are, the more land will belong to each individual, making politics less complicated, that's always a good thing.

Can you give us an example of one country that decreases in its population helped improves things in that country?

[Thai-Samurai]

Although the general way of life may not improve from population decreasing, what I meant was that less people Does make things simpler.
Think of this, if you drive somewhere, the longer you drive the higher your chances are of having an accident, and every intersection you cross is a higher chance of accident than driving straight on a one way road. So if you wanted to decrease your chances of an accident, drive as little, and through as few as intersections as possible. So if there's less people in a country, there will be less people to deal w/ meaning some things will be easier. I said that just to give atleast one optimistic view of the pessimistic example Anonymouse had.

[spiral]

Where can we get the records for prior to 2000?

And as far as the records for people arriving in and leaving form Armenia, does this include tourists, or people who became residents and then left again?

[spiral]

Although the general way of life may not improve from population decreasing, what I meant was that less people Does make things simpler.
Think of this, if you drive somewhere, the longer you drive the higher your chances are of having an accident, and every intersection you cross is a higher chance of accident than driving straight on a one way road. So if you wanted to decrease your chances of an accident, drive as little, and through as few as intersections as possible. So if there's less people in a country, there will be less people to deal w/ meaning some things will be easier. I said that just to give atleast one optimistic view of the pessimistic example Anonymouse had.


Your metaphor sucks.

[HyeJinx1984]

A nations strength lies in it's population and economic stability. Armenian is suffering in both catagories.

[HyePrincess]

I no this wont ever happen but...............

well xxxx i wish and pray to god that one they the goverment says to everyone leave and go back to your homeland that would be great cause then we would all have to go back to Armenia that would be great dont you think ?

[HyeJinx1984]

I no this wont ever happen but...............

well xxxx i wish and pray to god that one they the goverment says to everyone leave and go back to your homeland that would be great cause then we would all have to go back to Armenia that would be great dont you think ?

Yes and no. I don't think it should be forceful becayse there is a time for everything and some people may not be ready for whatever reason, financially, emotionally, whatever...

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't depend on any government, including our own, to help us. Armenia will be improved when all these sucessful entrepenurs (I butchered that word alright) and business men from all over the world move back to Armenia and create jobs there for items to be exported out. I stress that these be companies run by armenians, because I'd rather watch a thousand armenian infants starve to death before I'd allow a Gap or an American Eagle to set up a sweat shop in my country and force little armenian girls to work for fifteen cents a day.

[dikranjohn]

No end in sight to emigration from Armenia

The exodus of Armenians from their homeland continues. Data show that in the first eight months of 2004, 497,000 people left the country against 450,000 who entered it for a total loss of about 50,000. Compared to 2003, the emigration rate was up by 38 per cent which represents an extra 13,000 emigrants.

Although experts believe that the data should not be taken at face value—departures are often temporary—, they do highlight the fact that Armenia is experiencing a real loss in population. Men are the most likely to leave, seeking employment in neighbouring Russia, returning only for the Christmas holidays. Because of the skewed migratory patterns, Armenian women now represent 56 per cent of the population compared to 51 ten years ago.

Emigration is a sign of the tough economic times that followed the war with Azerbaijan (1991-1994) and the serious energy crisis that came with it.

Today, the economy is picking up—12 per cent annual growth—but not sufficiently to stop Armenians from going abroad.

Armenia has a population of about 3.8 million people. More than two thirds (67 per cent) live in the country’s urban centres, more than 1.2 million in the capital Yerevan alone. Almost two Armenians in three (64 per cent) are Orthodox; about 150,000 are Catholics.

According to the latest data (1999), the Armenian Diaspora stands at 15 million people. The largest communities are in Russia (2.8 million), the US (1.5 million) and France (400,000).

[CatWoman]

You guys this is pretty exciting... :)

Yerevan, November 10, Armenpress: People permanently residing in Armenia made up 3 mln 213,000 as of October 1. According to Armenian National Statistics Service, population increased by 1,400 against the beginning of the year and by 3,000 against 2003.

During the 9 months of the running year, the increase in number was conditioned by increase of birth rate over mortality rate growing up by 24.5% over the same span of the last year. Birth rate grew by 7.8 % from 25,579 in 2003 to 27,576 in 2004. The mortality rates, however, are higher in Stepanavan and Meghri and rural communities of Tumanian, Jambarak, Kapan, Meghri and Tavush.

Some 13.1% growth is reported in marriages and 11.2 growth in divorces. Most popular name for newly born girls are Anna, Mariam, Anahit and most popular boy names are Davit, Narek, Arman and Arthur.

[Thai-Samurai]

cool, that is good news.

[HyeJinx1984]

According to the latest data (1999), the Armenian Diaspora stands at 15 million people. The largest communities are in Russia (2.8 million), the US (1.5 million) and France (400,000).

Fifteen Mil? That's a lot more than I thought. Wow, you'd think a group of 15 million people doing even the least amount of work individually would be able to help a nation smaller the than the county of L.A.. 15 Mil? That's a huge support system right there... Armenia should be in a great shape right now...... shouldn't it?

[Hayq]

It is not 15mln, I read somewhere at the most to be 10mln, and I even think it is 6mln sometimes. 15mln sounds like some propaganda to make us similar to xxxs, there are 15mln xxxs in the world (maybe more who dont register)

[Che_Ka]

Often, I think Diaspora population figures are inflated.

The total number of Armenians in the world is, at most, 8 million.

That includes 3 million in Armenia, 5 million outside.

USA - 1 million
Russia + CIS - 2-2.5 million
Europe - 1 million is generous
Middle East - 500k-600k (Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey)

The rest are made up on small communities in South America (Argentina, Venezuela, Brazil), Australia (Sydney -- I saw an Ararat Day Care center in a Sydney suburb when I was there this year!), and tiny communties in Asia and Africa.

We must also factor assimilation. Sure, there may be half a million Armenians in California, but how many consider themselves Armenian? How many will contribute to Armenian causes? A Diaspora is only as effective as its contributions.

[Hayq]

good point, Che.

[CatWoman]

SAD END

"If emigration continues the same pace as it is, population of Armenia will decrease by 1/3 in 2050", Hranush Kharatyan, head of Governmental Department for Religion and National Minorities says being guided by the results of a public poll recently conducted. Mainly 15-59 age group population will reduce.

Unlike this, in 2 Moslem states neighbouring Armenia – Turkey and Azerbaijan, population will increase – 47% in Turkey and 43% in Azerbaijan.

According to Hranush Kharatyan, it is possible to prevent the sad future of Armenia if the Authorities, parties and the society think over and jointly fight against evils like injustice and corruption.

A1 plus News (http://www.a1plus.am/eng/?go=issue&id=23728&PHPSESSID=0e9c2f53be1b45321ff93873ea1beffa)

:(

[Hayq]

Catwoman (presuming that you ARE a woman) why dont you have more kids? More babies! yay yay!

[CatWoman]

Catwoman (presuming that you ARE a woman) why dont you have more kids? More babies! yay yay!

And that is related to emigration from Armenia in what way?

[Thai-Samurai]

It could be related to Immigration.

[EYYBABA23]

Year Arrived Left Balance (arrived -left)
2000 399663 457162 -57499
2001 508211 568600 -60389
2002 590654 593373 -2719
2003 618348 628509 -10161
2004 until june 363426 392647 -29221
Total 2394756 2566493 -171,737 person left the country since 2000, about 5.00% left of the total population left the country. In 2084 don’t even ask?

Total population in 2004 = 3,434,740 million

First of all, I have a problem with the way this person has analyzed this data!
Check out the dramatic change from 2000-2001 57-60 thousand to 2002-2003 2-10 thousand. I don't think you can average these numbers out and say by 2084 we won't have any Armenians left there. How do you know, by year 2034 which is 30 years from now, Armenia's economy won't boom and major changes won't take place and people won't start to go back? Look at Japan now, and it was just 55 years ago or so that they got messed up in Hiroshima and Nakazaki. Tell me "menk Japonatsinerits inch kich unenk"?

But still people are leaving there for a reason, however I'm positive that we have enough Hayaser Armenians that love Armenia and won't let it vanish away. You guys keep forgetting that Armenians throughout the history have been attacked by many nations in the world, gone through a genocide, and we still exist. I don't think immigration should be of anyone's concern, however as I said there's a reason people leave the country and how do you know in a few years things won't be fixed?

My uncle just went to Armenia about 3 years ago and has opened up a company with some partners! I'm sure there are alot of people like him. (the company [or factory] is on that new highway that connects to gharabagh.