Sumgait/Baku Gone Unrecognized

[ArmoBarbi]

Does anyone else think that Sumgait didnt get the appropriate recognition within the Armenian Diaspora? In case you dont know what I mean by Sumgait:

The vigorous but mainly peaceful political activity in Karabakh and Yerevan was accompanied by a resumption of killings. On February 27, fanatical Azeri-Turks went on a three day rampage in Sumgait, a new industrial town 20 miles from Baku, murdering members of the town's large Armenian minority and destroying their property. According to the official Soviet account 32 died, but eyewitness reports strongly suggest the true figure runs into the hundreds. Marina Pogosyan, a young survivor of the Sumgait massacre, testified:

"On the twenty-sixth, a Friday, a friend of mine warned me to stay inside over the weekend. Still, I went to work - I taught in a nursery schood - and walked home at noon. That afternoon, there was another Azerbaijani rally, in downtown Sumgait, and then crowds of people went through the shopping area where Armenians worked, and broke windows and smashed things. I heard cries of 'Death to Armenians! Blood for blood!' It was mostly young people, and the police didn't stop thepn. Late that night, after we had gone to bed, we heard yelling on the street, and through the window I saw thousands of people in a mob marching through the street, most dressed in black, carrying clubs and Turkish flags with the half-moon. They were yelling, 'Get out! Armenians are killing our people and you're sitting here! We must purge our city! The next day, we went to a neighbor's in the building for. her birthday party. We talked about what we had seen, but we thought it was just young hooligans, fhen a neighbor boy came in, looking pale. We asked him what was happening, and he said: 'You don't know? They're killing and burning people out there, breaking into people's apartments.' We called the police, and they said: 'Stay where you are. You're not the only ones. We can't help you.' A Russian neighbor came to us and invited us to wait in her apartment. There were about three families with her - fifteen people. We spent the whole night there. The mob came and knocked on our door, and she went outside and told them that we were not there - that we'd moved a week ago. A few times after that, they passed by and broke into neighbors' apartments. By that time, no Armenians were home. So there were no killings (in her building-ed.), but there was a lot of destruction. They threw the chairs and the dishes out of the window. I had absolutely no hope that we'd survive. I figured they'd kill us all sooner or later. The mob came again, but on Monday soldiers came in tanks and took us to the Party committee building." (Cullen, 1991, pp. 66-7)

Marina Pogosyan and her family were allowed to collect money and a few possessions before being flown to Yerevan. Most of Sumgait's Armenian community survived the attacks. Many, like Miss Pogosyan, were sheltered by brave Russian and Azeri-Turk neighbours. But the fate of those who fell into the hands of the mob was cruel. Lola Avakyan, a 37-year-old Armenian resident of Sumgait was one of the unfortunate. Seized by an Azeri-Turk crowd, she was stripped and forced to dance before having her breasts slashed and body burned with cigarettes. She was raped and then killed. Several AzeriTurks were arrested and convicted for their involvement in the mayhem.

Sumgait postscript: On March 2, 1993, the Office of Azerbaijani Procurator announced that it had recommended that President Eichibey grant an amnesty to those convicted of violent offenses against Armenians during the Sumgait pogrom. The Procurator's Office reported that it expected the President to act according to its recommendation. On the same day, a proposal for the amnesty to be announced on May 28, 1993 - the 74th anniversary of the founding of the first Republic of Azerbaijan - was made in Azerbaijani parliament.





***My family is from Baku, and had to run because the same thing was starting to happen there. I have heard accounts from other Bakvahyes about how babies were being thrown against walls. :crying: Hundreds of people were killed. (in Sumgait and Baku both) Many more lost their homes and jobs because they had to run for their lives. Many lost contact with family and friends. (I just finished crying after reading that article)

Amazingly, most Armenians outside of the former Union dont even know about this. :confused:

[CatWoman]

I do... I do...

Honestly, I read about this like two weeks ago. I was reading somewhere about the 'khojaly genocide' of azeris (yeah the copy cats had to take the term 'genocide') by Armenians and that US Congressman from Indiana called for its recognition and that azerbaijanis gathered infront of the Armenian embassy in Washington like two weeks ago to condemn the Khojaly massacre, so I got interested. I never heard of khojaly before either. Then I did some 'research' lol, and guess what I found. The barbaric killigs in Sumgait that happened prior to the khojaly was the cause of the khojaly incident! Like you kill our people, we'll kill yours kinda thing! I was shocked to read about Sumgait myself, I never knew about it and we don't really talk about it much yet those azeris are making a huge deal of khojaly oh and by the way I later read that the Congressman from Indiana was paid to do that . :mad:

I suppose since we can't even get the real genocide recognized (so pathetic I know) we don't even bother with Sumgait. But yes, every Armenian, specially the ones like that 'kaf' person comming here complaining about our bad relations with our neighbors should know about this.

You're awesome! Thanks for bringing it up!!! :)

[winoman]

...in response to a Turk calling himself "Mr Truth" who was aledging that Armenians commited Genocide in Khojaly....

There has been a great deal of propaganda and misinformation from the Azeris concerning Khojaly in specific and Artsahk/NK in general. It would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that Armenians have generally done a very poor job countering these baseless acusations and once again (as in 1915) turning the blame on the victims. A chronology of this conflict clearly shows the Azeris initiating the violence and commiting massacre against Armenians. Eventually - of course - the pathetic Azeris gut their butts kicked by an undermanned and undersupplied Armenian opposition who were just more motivated (as it was their families and homes that were being theatened) as well as clearly being more capable soldiers. So all that is left for the Azeris to do is to whine about and attempt to twist the events of the war in a manner to disparage Armenians. Sorry Mr Untruth - but again the facts are not on your side. Certainly in any war - particualry one such as this where both sides had civilians in the vicinity - there will be civilian casualties and often atrocities - such is war. However the facts in Khojaly do not support that the Armenians commited such there at all - in fact the opposite - they gave ample warning and allowed for a corridor for civilians to escape. Luckily there are some websites out there which are supplying some very good information concerning the chronology and events surrounding the Khojaly incident (clearly demonstrating it as resulting from Azeri infighting and subsequent blame on the Armenians) - This becomes most clear when one considers the fact that after Armenians had captured Khojaly the Azeris were able to take reporters to the massacre site and show the bodies...well obviously this did not occur in territory held by the Armenians at all! - but in fact occured within Azeri held areas and then the dead were doctored up to show what the Azeri's wished to show - as is evidence by eyewitnesses who saw the corpses before and after. I am glad to see that this information is being brought to light - particualry since the Turks and Azeris are again using this incident and claiming genocide (laughable - they obviously lack understanding of the word...) - and are doing so now to attempt to foil commeration of the real Genocide - that commited 90 years ago by Turks in 1915!

http://www.armenians.com/Genocide/Khojalu/index.html

http://www.nkrusa.org/nk_conflict/khojalu.html

http://www.nkrusa.org/nk_conflict/index.html

Andrei Sakharov on the Sumgait Massacre of 1988:

http://www.nkrusa.org/nk_conflict/sumgait_massacre.html

more:

http://www.nkrusa.org/nk_conflict/ethnic_cleansing_campaigns.html

and check out this rather interesting and extensive bibliography:

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/facts/k_articl.html

[ArmenianKid]

Does anyone else think that Sumgait didnt get the appropriate recognition within the Armenian Diaspora? In case you dont know what I mean by Sumgait:

The vigorous but mainly peaceful political activity in Karabakh and Yerevan was accompanied by a resumption of killings. On February 27, fanatical Azeri-Turks went on a three day rampage in Sumgait, a new industrial town 20 miles from Baku, murdering members of the town's large Armenian minority and destroying their property. According to the official Soviet account 32 died, but eyewitness reports strongly suggest the true figure runs into the hundreds. Marina Pogosyan, a young survivor of the Sumgait massacre, testified:

"On the twenty-sixth, a Friday, a friend of mine warned me to stay inside over the weekend. Still, I went to work - I taught in a nursery schood - and walked home at noon. That afternoon, there was another Azerbaijani rally, in downtown Sumgait, and then crowds of people went through the shopping area where Armenians worked, and broke windows and smashed things. I heard cries of 'Death to Armenians! Blood for blood!' It was mostly young people, and the police didn't stop thepn. Late that night, after we had gone to bed, we heard yelling on the street, and through the window I saw thousands of people in a mob marching through the street, most dressed in black, carrying clubs and Turkish flags with the half-moon. They were yelling, 'Get out! Armenians are killing our people and you're sitting here! We must purge our city! The next day, we went to a neighbor's in the building for. her birthday party. We talked about what we had seen, but we thought it was just young hooligans, fhen a neighbor boy came in, looking pale. We asked him what was happening, and he said: 'You don't know? They're killing and burning people out there, breaking into people's apartments.' We called the police, and they said: 'Stay where you are. You're not the only ones. We can't help you.' A Russian neighbor came to us and invited us to wait in her apartment. There were about three families with her - fifteen people. We spent the whole night there. The mob came and knocked on our door, and she went outside and told them that we were not there - that we'd moved a week ago. A few times after that, they passed by and broke into neighbors' apartments. By that time, no Armenians were home. So there were no killings (in her building-ed.), but there was a lot of destruction. They threw the chairs and the dishes out of the window. I had absolutely no hope that we'd survive. I figured they'd kill us all sooner or later. The mob came again, but on Monday soldiers came in tanks and took us to the Party committee building." (Cullen, 1991, pp. 66-7)

Marina Pogosyan and her family were allowed to collect money and a few possessions before being flown to Yerevan. Most of Sumgait's Armenian community survived the attacks. Many, like Miss Pogosyan, were sheltered by brave Russian and Azeri-Turk neighbours. But the fate of those who fell into the hands of the mob was cruel. Lola Avakyan, a 37-year-old Armenian resident of Sumgait was one of the unfortunate. Seized by an Azeri-Turk crowd, she was stripped and forced to dance before having her breasts slashed and body burned with cigarettes. She was raped and then killed. Several AzeriTurks were arrested and convicted for their involvement in the mayhem.

Sumgait postscript: On March 2, 1993, the Office of Azerbaijani Procurator announced that it had recommended that President Eichibey grant an amnesty to those convicted of violent offenses against Armenians during the Sumgait pogrom. The Procurator's Office reported that it expected the President to act according to its recommendation. On the same day, a proposal for the amnesty to be announced on May 28, 1993 - the 74th anniversary of the founding of the first Republic of Azerbaijan - was made in Azerbaijani parliament.





***My family is from Baku, and had to run because the same thing was starting to happen there. I have heard accounts from other Bakvahyes about how babies were being thrown against walls. :crying: Hundreds of people were killed. (in Sumgait and Baku both) Many more lost their homes and jobs because they had to run for their lives. Many lost contact with family and friends. (I just finished crying after reading that article)




Amazingly, most Armenians outside of the former Union dont even know about this. :confused:

thank u for posting this. i know very little about the sumgait and baku hapenings. it sounds alot like the nazi kristalnact.

[ArmenianKid]

I do... I do...

Honestly, I read about this like two weeks ago. I was reading somewhere about the 'khojaly genocide' of azeris (yeah the copy cats had to take the term 'genocide') by Armenians and that US Congressman from Indiana called for its recognition and that azerbaijanis gathered infront of the Armenian embassy in Washington like two weeks ago to condemn the Khojaly massacre, so I got interested. I never heard of khojaly before either. Then I did some 'research' lol, and guess what I found. The barbaric killigs in Sumgait that happened prior to the khojaly was the cause of the khojaly incident! Like you kill our people, we'll kill yours kinda thing! I was shocked to read about Sumgait myself, I never knew about it and we don't really talk about it much yet those azeris are making a huge deal of khojaly oh and by the way I later read that the Congressman from Indiana was paid to do that . :mad:

I suppose since we can't even get the real genocide recognized (so pathetic I know) we don't even bother with Sumgait. But yes, every Armenian, specially the ones like that 'kaf' person comming here complaining about our bad relations with our neighbors should know about this.

You're awesome! Thanks for bringing it up!!! :)


i dont belive in killling for any cause but it was pure vengance that fuled it. the US congress should know that.

[dstyle]

Blah balh, boo the turks, azeri or otherwise.

Barbi a lot of us know about Sumgait and baku, it was the anniversary last week or so I believe.

[ArmoBarbi]

Yes, the "anniversary" was recently, although the event sadly wasn't just one day. Im glad that a lot of you, as you say, know about it. Where are you from?

I do believe in killing in certain situations (like defending your children or capital punishment for a dangerous criminal etc), but none of these attacks were done out of any reason besides political. The leaders had things to gain (as usual), and the mob was brainwashed into thinking it was good. There was no nobility in it.

I think that anyone who was involved in the behavior is a perverted psychopath and if there is a "Hell" then they deserve the worst it has to offer.

[dstyle]

Me, I was born in Beirut, grew up in the valley.

[Inna]

I think a lot of people are still emotional about what happened in Sumgait...the more they talk about it the more horrible memories come up. My parents dont like to talk about it either...its a touchy subject. My dad sent my mom, sisters, and myself on "vacation" to Georgia after what had happened in Sumgait cause he was afraid the some thing would happen in Baku.

[ArmoBarbi]

I think a lot of people are still emotional about what happened in Sumgait...the more they talk about it the more horrible memories come up. My parents dont like to talk about it either...its a touchy subject. My dad sent my mom, sisters, and myself on "vacation" to Georgia after what had happened in Sumgait cause he was afraid the some thing would happen in Baku.

Your dad was smart about it. Dont you wish that all families had left early on?

I know a woman who witnessed the first attack in Sumgait as a nurse who was called there to help the victims. She came right back to Baku and bought a ticket to Moscow. Everyone told her she is overreacting and nothing will happen etc.... The same people had to run for their lives a few months later. I am soooo glad I dont remember it myself.

[Inna]

Your dad was smart about it. Dont you wish that all families had left early on?


oh...we didnt leave Baku..we just went on a so called vacation..just until things settled down a little, then we went back to Baku....but I remember from then on we spent a lot of times hiding in the sellar. We didnt leave Baku until December of 88, which we then moved to Armenia only to come face to face with another big disaster a few days later. :(

[ArmoBarbi]

you left in 88? Thats still good

My family left in 89

[winoman]

oh...we didnt leave Baku..we just went on a so called vacation..just until things settled down a little, then we went back to Baku....but I remember from then on we spent a lot of times hiding in the sellar. We didnt leave Baku until December of 88, which we then moved to Armenia only to come face to face with another big disaster a few days later. :(


Wow what rotten luck - out of the frying pan and into the fire as it were...so where were you when the Earthquake hit - and I imagine it must have been an incredibly horrible mess and most most sad....

[Inna]

Wow what rotten luck - out of the frying pan and into the fire as it were...so where were you when the Earthquake hit - and I imagine it must have been an incredibly horrible mess and most most sad....

It was rotten luck...but honestly we had better luck than many people.

Here is what I wrote in an old thread about the 1988 Earthquake:

My family and I moved to Leninakan (Gyumri) after fleeing Baku. We didnt actually move there, we were put there, it was one of the cities that had refugees from Baku. All in all, I was there, I dont remember anything, and my parents dont like talking about it much. All I ever got out of them was that there was a man that was working on the house that had been given to us by the government, he apparently saved my life as well as my sisters lives because he quickly grapped us and ran out of the house when he felt the building shake. The tragic part is he saved us, but my parents later found out that he lost his entire family (wife and kids) during the earthquake. That day was also the day my sisters were supposed to start school, but my mom wanted to wait till the next day so we could settle in, thank goodness she waited, because almost all the kids that died that day died because they were in school. Also on that day my dad started his first job, he told me that a few minutes before the earthquake hit he went outside to have a smoke, minutes later the enitre building collapsed and there were few surviviors. Thinking about this is really emotional because I know that I was there, although I dont remember it. Makes you realize that life is a blessing.

Luckily I dont remember any of it, I was only 4 years old when it happened.

[winoman]

Wow! wow! wow! Inna - what a story...and how incredibly lucky you are!(well at least it evened out quite a bit eh?) ...and your family...so sad about the man who saved you...and too bad you don't knwo who he is...perhaps you could adopt him (in a sense). Our family had done such a thing back when I was a child. They helped out and basically adopted a man into our family who was from my Grandfather's village near Divrik back in Anatolia...I used to call him and think of him as my Uncle and he always bought me the latest cool comic books whenever we would see him!

[Inna]

Wow! wow! wow! Inna - what a story...and how incredibly lucky you are!(well at least it evened out quite a bit eh?) ...and your family...so sad about the man who saved you...and too bad you don't knwo who he is...perhaps you could adopt him (in a sense). Our family had done such a thing back when I was a child. They helped out and basically adopted a man into our family who was from my Grandfather's village near Divrik back in Anatolia...I used to call him and think of him as my Uncle and he always bought me the latest cool comic books whenever we would see him!

yeah..that would have been nice to adopt him into our family..but he was an Armenian from Armenia..he lived there his whole life, I'm sure he had parents and siblings that took care of them...at the time we had just moved into a foreign country...yes we were Armenian, but we knew no one and my parents barely spoke the language. In fact, my dad was determined to leave Armenia (and go to Russia) after the earthquake...he didnt see much hope in our families future in Armenia. He only stayed because he met a man who persuaded him not to leave because so many Armenians were already leaving...he told my dad about a place in Echmiadzin that took in refugees so we moved there and lived there for 3 and a half yrs. I got to say though..as a child, living in Armenia was the best childhood a kid could have..so much adventure

[ArmoBarbi]

I just found out this morning in a casual conversation with my mother that I was in Armenia during the earthquake!

We also went on "vacation" during the events. It happened to be at the time of the earthquake. We were visiting with relatives in Yerevan and felt it. My mother said it wasnt anything bad, and they didnt even realize that it was from a serious earthquake until they heard about it hours later.

There is so much I grew up not knowing about my childhood. Its amazing.

[KotayKoskesh]

Wow... I never knew about this ... piss turc pezevenk ....is the only thing i can come up with to say sorry but this is terrible ......wow