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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Army service is not for everybody. That is true, but....

    An all professional army (no conscripts) is a fine idea when you are a larger country and/or part of a large military organization (like NATO) and the only wars you will be waging are in far distant lands....

    For a small country like Armenia located in an almost disastrous geographic place...there is no subsititude to mass scale conscription. Every person should have some degree of military training.

    Lets talk raw numbers. The Armenian army is around 65,000 strong (including the conscripts). If we stop mandatory military service, our professional army will shrink to around half of that...not only is that too small to operate significant amounts of military equipment (tanks, aircraft etc.), but it will not be able to last very long in a possible long proctracted conflict. Now, if we have a reserve force of 300,000 people who had a 2 year mandatory training...

    A good comparison would be Israel. Their standing army is not very large but, they have a huge reserve (previous conscripts) that can be called within 48 hours.

    Of course, a professional army is of better quality....but quantity is a quality itself.

    Remember, the boys and girls who defended Artsakh were able to do so because they knew how to use Kalashnikovs, RPGs and tanks from their 2 year mandatory service in the Soviet Red Army.

    Edit: Hazing, complaints, poor conditions will not go away. Crusader1492 provided an excellent correlation between "training" and "torture".
    One famous army commander (can't remember who) once said "the worse the army food tastes, the braver the soldiers will be"
    Last edited by ZORAVAR; 10-07-2008, 11:36 AM.
    "Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will plough for those who didn't"

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    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Chariots of fire : Tanks


      Artsakh Army T-72 tanks in Stepanagerd


      Azeri T-72 tanks in Baku during parade


      Despite the growing Azeri military budget and their lavish arms procurement program, we still maintain a numerical superiority in the field of tanks and armored vehicles.

      In fact, with over 300 tanks, the Karabagh self-defense forces alone have about the same number of these steel chariots as Azerbaijan. Armenia itself has about 120. Most of the tanks are T-72 models with various degrees of modernization. The Azeris also posess older tanks like the T-55.

      The same applies to armored vehicles. Combined, Armenia and Karabagh have more BMPs, BTRs and MT-LBs than Azerbaijan. Again, Karabagh has more than Armenia itself.

      As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, because of its topography, most of Artsakh’s terrain is not very suitable for tanks. In a tank attack, the Azeris will have to drive through few difficult roads and passes at slow speed making them relatively easy targets for our defenses.

      As they loose their forward momentum and suffer losses, they will become prime targets for a counter-attack. Once we have them on the retreat and out of our lands…from our higher altitude positions, we can look down on them in their plains and soft rolling hills which are better suited for our tanks to push all the way to Baku if necessary. The way to the Caspian sea is downhill and great for our counterattack. Our armored columns can do all kinds of classic maneuvers like pincer movements, flanking and bypassing – basically a Blitzkrig.

      To do all that, we must make sure that we minimize, as much as possible, the potential of their superior air force. More on that in a future post.
      "Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will plough for those who didn't"

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      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        what about minefields Zoravar? How significant can they be in slowing down tank formations? If the air superiority of Azerbaijan were eliminated, how would our army go about getting our tanks to reach Baku if circumstances allowed for such an advance?
        I was taught how to think.

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        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Here's what happens when you join the azerbaboon army http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51OZpSKK6Es
          Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
            what about minefields Zoravar? How significant can they be in slowing down tank formations?
            If artillery is the king of the battlefield, mines are the demons.

            Minefields do not repell an attacking enemy by themselves. Let us not think of them as an impenetrable "Maginot line". All they do is: slow the attacker down, bog them, and even stop them in their tracks momentarily. They allow the defender to regain the initiative by initiating punishing artillery/air strikes or launching flanking counterattacks. Artsakh is heavily mined and that makes the job of an attacker even more difficult.

            If the air superiority of Azerbaijan were eliminated, how would our army go about getting our tanks to reach Baku if circumstances allowed for such an advance?
            The key to achieving such a big objective is swiftness. Once we have them on the retreat, we should immediatly go onto the offensive to wherever we want to reach. Failure to act immediatly will allow the Azeris to regroup and organize their defenses. Ideally, we want to have their high command loose control of the situation and their troops be in a panic mode with morale at its bottom. Something like the Georgian's panic dash from Gori to Tbilissi or the Egyptian retreat all the way to the Suez canal in 1967.

            A swift counteroffensive with far reaching goals requires "fresh" troops that are not exhausted by the initial fighting and have not suffered losses. That's why, it is imperative to hold a sizable reserve armoured force in the back. That will be the spearhead of the counterattack.
            "Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will plough for those who didn't"

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            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              The Armenian army did have problems with discipline..but that was in the 90s...today it's one of the top armies in the region!
              Now this is an army...and accidents do occur! keep in mind that this is an army that's on high state of alert! this is a fighting army!! the fact that they are on alert tends to make soldiers a bit nervous!
              When u combine nervousness and weapon, accidents could happen!

              This isn't the swiss army which basically spends its time cleaning forests..neither its the Swedish army..patroling its shores against whales and sharks! These guys are in a high state of alert 24/7...knowing that the next sniper bullet might hit their heads! It's not an easy fact to deal with!

              For armenia...mandatory service is a must! even if armenia one day does have a professional army! in my opinion the military service must continue!

              IMHO! Armenia must be like Israel! It must have a military community! both males and females must serve!
              This on one hand! on the other we should build several battalions of SPECIAL FORCES! these forces should be formed of professional soldiers!

              So we would have around 100,000 active troops (both males and females)..and 20,000 additional commando battalions!

              I also support the idea of diaspora Armenians following 2 months trainings in Armenia! These diaspora troops must be trained to conduct just 1 military action!

              Meaning some would be trained to become snipers, other to use an AK, others to use ATGMs, others to drive military trucks...2 monthd is enough time to learn a single function!

              I believe this would create an immense military force! But all this requires billions of dollars which the homeland cannot put aside to realize it right now!

              But i do believe this is a right way to go!
              Last edited by Snoopy12; 10-08-2008, 12:16 PM.

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              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                I'm not sure if females should serve or not. I can see the benefits of it, but not sure if Armenian society would support the idea. A diaspora unit would be cool, I would look into if they were ever to establish one.
                For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

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                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Originally posted by Armanen View Post
                  I'm not sure if females should serve or not. I can see the benefits of it, but not sure if Armenian society would support the idea. A diaspora unit would be cool, I would look into if they were ever to establish one.
                  They used to do it in Greece if I'm not mistaken. Not any longer though (at least not as conscripts).
                  You are right, the Armenian society would no support the idea and they would be right.
                  But still don't forget that the best snipers in Artsakh were women.

                  And not only snipers

                  When it comes to defending one's home women can be quite tough.

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                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Originally posted by Snoopy12
                    I also support the idea of diaspora Armenians following 2 months trainings in Armenia!

                    I completely agree with you. I would definitely look into it if they created such a program.
                    Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

                    Ten soldiers wisely led, will beat a hundred without a head.

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                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by Snoopy12 View Post
                      I also support the idea of diaspora Armenians following 2 months trainings in Armenia! These diaspora troops must be trained to conduct just 1 military action! Meaning some would be trained to become snipers, other to use an AK, others to use ATGMs, others to drive military trucks...2 monthd is enough time to learn a single function! I believe this would create an immense military force! But all this requires billions of dollars which the homeland cannot put aside to realize it right now! But i do believe this is a right way to go!
                      I more-or-less agree with everything you said, especially the proposal for giving diasporan Armenians a chance to get military training in Armenia. However, besides the obvious cost obstacle for implementing such a program, such a program would potentially make the Armenian military vulnerable to infiltration by foreign agents. Importing diasporan Armenians into the structures of the Armenian armed forces poses a significant risk to the security of the Armenian Republic. I think many of us have a very romantic view of Armenians in the diaspora, or Armenians in general. Also, take into consideration that Armenians in general are not a warlike people. Before attempting any of your good suggestions we as a nation should first work on implementing a serious indoctrination program in Armenia that seeks to instill - nationalism - in the people. Nationalism/patriotism is fundamental to this particular discussion and to this general topic. A people that does not poses the fundamental tenets of nationalism is doomed to failure. Today, only a small core of Armenians in the Armenian diaspora and the Armenian nation can be considered nationalists. Let's work on creating nationalists first.
                      Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                      Նժդեհ


                      Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

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