Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[bayhye]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

How do we get tactical? We're all talking a lot. We all want to do something. Can we better arm and equip these young men? April 24th is coming up, instead of moaning about genocide recognition from an openly hostile state, let's pull together a planeload of support.

In the second Iraq war, parents of American soldiers were sending over additional ballistic protection because kids were dying from IEDs while the Defense Department dragged their feet on procurement. Yesterday I read that Armenians were gathering old tires to send to the front, but didn't have enough trucks to send them. What's a reasonable plan that the diaspora can pull together?

How much money do we need to raise for the families? 100 families x $5000 each as a stipend? $500K. Nothing for us would be everything for them.
Do we have enough bulletproof vests/leg protection? $1500 each.
Do we have enough medical supplies/tourniquets? These are dirt cheap. I read somewhere that boys were bleeding out for lack of supplies, that is UNACCEPTABLE.
Do we have enough night vision goggles? They are $3500 each
Do we have enough drone copters? We need some autonomous capability to avoid the jamming issues.

[ArmeniaSacra]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You people and your pro this and anti that. Just be pro-Armenia. It was funny when everyone thought Russia had our best interest in mind, and it's just as funny that some people think they're the only thing stopping us from conquering Azerbaijan. Just a reminder, we had the army we have in large parts thanks to our our military cooperation with Russia. And btw the other side is still much better armed, and a hundred families just lost someone, most of them teenage kids.

Let's not get silly. Russia didn't stop anything. How much did you foresee us going forward? How many people were you willing to see die? Were we gonna take Nakhichevan? Would we retake all of Shahumian? We currently don't have the means for such a mission.

Unless you are volunteering to go participate in this offensive, I find it hypocritical to sit thousand of kms away and watch teenagers get mutilated like its some game. We have this mentality in the diaspora far too much. Because we don't have to live through the daily struggles of life in Armenia. We don't have to deal with the political, economic, and social shortcomings, and we are often ignorant. It's not an accident that this is the most popular thread in this forum. So we have this militaristic mentality. Because it's not war for a national betterment or survival. It's war for the hell of it. war hero Shahe Ajemian last facebook post before heading to the front was this:

Who dies for Armenia ? who gets wounds for Armenia ?
Of curse the only ones who lives in Armenia !!!
All other Armenians are just watchers from far far far away ..........
and i don't want to judge them more !!!!!



Defending your own familiar land in a defensive war, in your well entrenched positions is completely different than an offensive war. Specially when the other side is better armed and has many times more soldiers to spare. That motivation and morale we keep talking about? That comes from knowing youre defending your own land, you're ancestral graves, and have no other option. That doesn't apply nearly as well for random adventures. In fact, it gives the other side some real motivation.

Defending your land out of necessity with no other option is a different matter than an incursion sending eighteen year old kids to their deaths and accidentally starting war and hence undoing twenty five years of nation building through choice is something else.

This isn't a video game where you win or lose and you go home. We are losing the real war. That's our economy and demographic. It doesn't matter if the other side is losing that too. This mission isn't to destroy Azerbaijan. It's to advance Armenia. If you start a full scale war, Armenia loses either way. I don't care what happens to the animals on the other side. There's so much to already do in Armenia, and so little money to do it with, a few more billion dollars of damage, or a few hundred thousand more leaving may be enough to end us as a country.

Now if somehow you believe war is imminent and our best defensive and most efficient move is a preemptive attack, that's a different matter. But if that was the case, our army would have moved in. Or if you somehow you think we can make very strategic gains with minimal losses, that's different. And again, our army would have done it. But I don't see how that's currently possible given our arsenal. Or if the enemy is firing mortars and you're just firing back, that's different.But to go get a single hill in the desert of Hadrut seems idiotic. This isn't Azerbaijan where they posted fifty videos from this one hill that nobody had heard of before a week ago, like they had entered Shushi. We already know we won. I don't understand what the objective would be. You're essentially asking exactly for the dumb thing Aliyev has done.

Azerbaijan is on the verge of self-destruction

http://www.brecorder.com/world/global-business-a-economy/285778-azerbaijans-economy-contracts-by-32pc-in-jan-feb.html

Azerbaijan will not have enough time to fail economically. It'll fail politically long before then. They need a war to prevent that.

They are trying to entice a war. It should be our job to not fall for it. If it's possible to deescalate the situation, and focus on advancing our country while the enemy continues to self-destruct. that is what we need to do.

It's certainly not time to turn against Russia just as a prideful emotional move like that moron saakashvili. There would be nothing to gain from that. Russia can hurt us so much more than we can hurt it. Of course we should be tough with Russia and make the best of deals. But to abandon it for no better alternative just as an act of pride? Did people forget that we have indeed gotten cheap weapons from Russia for the past two decades, and that is a reason we have the confidence we do.

Armenia has made many pragmatic moves over the past decade that have paid off tremendously. We joined the EEU over the AA agreement for all the non economic benefits, and somehow we still managed to economically outperform Georgia, who signed the AA. These decisions have resulted in us being able to survive years of enemy having a military budget of almost ten times ours. Their golden years are done. They were done eighteen months ago. Hence why they attacked. We made it through the worst part. So let's calm down and not make dramatic moves now and undo all of that work when we're almost at the finish line. Soon enough they'll destroy themselves and we can take what we need at a much lower cost. At a point when were are much stronger.

From here on out, the military balance will continue to shift towards us as the economic balance turns towards us. The more we wait the better position we're in militarily. It's utterly idiotic to play into their hands and encourage conflict when you know, as a matter of undeniable fact that every day, they get weaker than the day before.

This is by far one of the most intelligent posts I have read in this forum! Agreed brother!

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

How do we get tactical? We're all talking a lot. We all want to do something. Can we better arm and equip these young men? April 24th is coming up, instead of moaning about genocide recognition from an openly hostile state, let's pull together a planeload of support.

In the second Iraq war, parents of American soldiers were sending over additional ballistic protection because kids were dying from IEDs while the Defense Department dragged their feet on procurement. Yesterday I read that Armenians were gathering old tires to send to the front, but didn't have enough trucks to send them. What's a reasonable plan that the diaspora can pull together?

How much money do we need to raise for the families? 100 families x $5000 each as a stipend? $500K. Nothing for us would be everything for them.
Do we have enough bulletproof vests/leg protection? $1500 each.
Do we have enough medical supplies/tourniquets? These are dirt cheap. I read somewhere that boys were bleeding out for lack of supplies, that is UNACCEPTABLE.
Do we have enough night vision goggles? They are $3500 each
Do we have enough drone copters? We need some autonomous capability to avoid the jamming issues.

if you happen to be in the los angeles area, i can put you in contact with a friend who already does this. I'm sure he can always use more people. and they can definitely use a better plan with new ideas or more efficiency. it's nothing dramatic like you see in these facebook posts with guns and rifles and stuff. It's things like boots, and basic essentials. some of what you mentioned.

and I couldn't agree more with the genocide part man. far too many people here in los angeles treat armenia like a history book and far too many people enjoy this victim mentality, and enjoy begging other people for approval.

the only difference between april 24th 1915 and april 2nd 2016 was that we have an army. instead of spending $25,000 on each single performance stage for the protest (real price that was paid last year in los angeles, multiple stages used) begging for things, honor those dead by contributing to existing armenian state so one day the graves of those dead in Mush and Van can be under the armenian flag.

[bayhye]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

if you happen to be in the los angeles area, i can put you in contact with a friend who already does this. I'm sure he can always use more people. and they can definitely use a better plan with new ideas or more efficiency. it's nothing dramatic like you see in these facebook posts with guns and rifles and stuff. It's things like boots, and basic essentials. some of what you mentioned.

and I couldn't agree more with the genocide part man. far too many people here in los angeles treat armenia like a history book and far too many people enjoy this victim mentality, and enjoy begging other people for approval.

the only difference between april 24th 1915 and april 2nd 2016 was that we have an army. instead of spending $25,000 on each single performance stage for the protest (real price that was paid last year in los angeles, multiple stages used) begging for things, honor those dead by contributing to existing armenian state so one day the graves of those dead in Mush and Van can be under the armenian flag.

I'm in the Bay Area, but can you please message me the contact info for your friend? I think we have to get smart with social media (gofundme, etc.) set a specific target, for specific purchases, and get everyone involved. These are our BLOOD BROTHERS. There can be no better use of our money.

Don't get me started on Genocide stuff... ha. It's of course important to honor our heritage but we literally let our current opportunity wither while we buy billboards to convince Americans about a historical event of which they have no impact over. The money that we spent last year on the Centennial just here in the Bay Area was insane-- I cringe thinking how many more of our guys would be alive today if we had spent it on supplies like bulletproofs, night vision, and medical kits. As long as Erdogan runs Turkey, and Turkey is an American ally in NATO, nothing is going to happen on the ground with Western Armenia that we can influence (now the Kurds... another story). Let's make Artsakh a recognized state and fight the CURRENT genocide.

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This is by far one of the most intelligent posts I have read in this forum! Agreed brother!

thank you axperes

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This Lezgin boy died fighting for Azerbaijani dictator regime. But he wasn't listed in fallen soldier list nor honored with a state funeral clearly because he wasn't ethnic Azerbaijani. There are doubtless many more.

http://lezgi-yar.ru/news/s_karabaha_prodoljayut_postupat_trupi/2016-04-12-4267

[HyeFighter2]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This photoshop has eaten my brain completely but here is couple of wallpapers from screenshots of latest news.

BTW i read every time u speak about Mi-35M, it was not Mi35, it was Mi-24G South African modernization.

[bayhye]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Guys my Armenian isn't that great, is this saying that the Russians forced us into a ceasefire even though we had the upper hand against panicked and deserting Azeris, and were about to take back anything that was lost? It's exactly what I thought, and why our guys were laughing at that video of Lale Tepe. WTF.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This is by far one of the most intelligent posts I have read in this forum! Agreed brother!

Agree. We've got some good minds on here.

[haydavid]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This Lezgin boy died fighting for Azerbaijani dictator regime. But he wasn't listed in fallen soldier list nor honored with a state funeral clearly because he wasn't ethnic Azerbaijani. There are doubtless many more.

http://lezgi-yar.ru/news/s_karabaha_...016-04-12-4267

Wtf he looks like 12