Tweet
Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
Haikakan jan, history backs my ideas about Russo/Turkish wars and indigenous populations support for Russians.
First of all, when Peter the great first tried to advance to Baku, he got defeated. Then years later he took it but had to abandon shortly because of Muslim militants kept blocking supply roads and were in constant combat.
He then tried to advance to Crimea and was defeated by Crimean tatars. Only when local Greek,Armenian and growing Slav population united in support of Russian empire, Russia was able to defeat Ottomans and take Crimea, but with only heavy support of Kazaks (non Russians too).
Russian navy had several battles in Black Sea against ottomans and lost to superior ottoman navy. Only when Russian navy was reformed with heavy recruiting of Greek, Bulgar, Romanian, Armenian and Serbian seamen as midrank officers was Russian navy able to defeat ottoman navy.
Russian army did not dare to cross Prut river untill Moldavians gave guarantees of 20000 volunteers joining.
Same way, into Bulgaria and balkans. Russian army would not move a centimeter before mass uprisings would not start against Ottoman Empire. Serbs, Greeks.
Russia used them entirely, sometimes still running out of manpower and materiel, often agreeing to armistices with ottomans and leaving those populations helplessly alone against ottoman ire and jataghan.
Look into all Balkan wars.
In Caucasus, It took many decades of heavy defeats.
Caucasian war lasted an entire century. From 1785, when Russia decided to subjugate Muslim khanates till 1878, when final resistance was put out in Chechnya. Even in WWII Stalin had to exile entire Tatar, Chechnian and part of Abkhazian, Dagestani, Avar and other Muslim populations to Altai in order to secure the Caucasus and Crimea.
Russia would not even dream of entering into Anatolia without Armenian Support and could not have gotten to Van after defeat in Crimean war and severed or weak land connection in northern Caucasus in 19th century.
The only factor that kept Russian Armies from repeated defeats and humiliations and actually helped in keeping an image of empire and strength in southern Caucasus and northeastern Anatolia was Armenians.
Constant replenishment of manpower lost with more resilient and determined fighters. Feeding Russian Army when there was a fiew hundred kilometers gap between front regiments and closest Russian supply posts.
I am not even speaking of our role in Russo/Persian war.
English envoys traveling to eastern Anatolia in 1820-40s kept sending warnings to Buckingham palace of lack of control by ottomans of entire Van area that was populated by Revolting Armenians and dangers of Russian expansion to those areas soon or later which would follow by Russian ports in Mediterranean.
There is a line of thread going through history, connecting those facts and then Berlin conference, where Europe succeeded in fooling us into believing in obtaining our rights by europe's help and later the genocide where Europe helped Turks openly or covertly in wyping out eastern Anatolia of Armenians.
Our existence in any area had become synonymous with opportunity and guarantee of Russia's advancement.
We have kept our eyes shut to our own history.
Look what is happening now. History is repeating. All 102nd base cannot exist without Armenian members and Armenian involvement in border. Do you think it is only happening now because there is Armenia as a country?
In 18th, 19th century too, how many decrees by our church and leaders has sent waves of volunteers and materiel in keeping Russian armies existence there?
There is the history and Russia perfectly is aware of it in establishing joint commands and units today, in anticipation of coming conflicts with turkey and NATO.
History is repeating itself. If war breaks out, Russian soldier is not going to stand up like Armenian soldier. This is not Donbas for Russians. But is Sardarapat for us. Moscow knows this and that is why is investing military on this line of Defence.
In case of war, a couple of hundred thousand Armenians are going to fight like mad in here.
Russia itself can never generate a couple hundred thousand soldiers fighting like that in every 300 km segment of it's vast border or front lines. It can do so only in small (relatively) heartland area.
Originally posted by Haykakan
View Post
Haikakan jan, history backs my ideas about Russo/Turkish wars and indigenous populations support for Russians.
First of all, when Peter the great first tried to advance to Baku, he got defeated. Then years later he took it but had to abandon shortly because of Muslim militants kept blocking supply roads and were in constant combat.
He then tried to advance to Crimea and was defeated by Crimean tatars. Only when local Greek,Armenian and growing Slav population united in support of Russian empire, Russia was able to defeat Ottomans and take Crimea, but with only heavy support of Kazaks (non Russians too).
Russian navy had several battles in Black Sea against ottomans and lost to superior ottoman navy. Only when Russian navy was reformed with heavy recruiting of Greek, Bulgar, Romanian, Armenian and Serbian seamen as midrank officers was Russian navy able to defeat ottoman navy.
Russian army did not dare to cross Prut river untill Moldavians gave guarantees of 20000 volunteers joining.
Same way, into Bulgaria and balkans. Russian army would not move a centimeter before mass uprisings would not start against Ottoman Empire. Serbs, Greeks.
Russia used them entirely, sometimes still running out of manpower and materiel, often agreeing to armistices with ottomans and leaving those populations helplessly alone against ottoman ire and jataghan.
Look into all Balkan wars.
In Caucasus, It took many decades of heavy defeats.
Caucasian war lasted an entire century. From 1785, when Russia decided to subjugate Muslim khanates till 1878, when final resistance was put out in Chechnya. Even in WWII Stalin had to exile entire Tatar, Chechnian and part of Abkhazian, Dagestani, Avar and other Muslim populations to Altai in order to secure the Caucasus and Crimea.
Russia would not even dream of entering into Anatolia without Armenian Support and could not have gotten to Van after defeat in Crimean war and severed or weak land connection in northern Caucasus in 19th century.
The only factor that kept Russian Armies from repeated defeats and humiliations and actually helped in keeping an image of empire and strength in southern Caucasus and northeastern Anatolia was Armenians.
Constant replenishment of manpower lost with more resilient and determined fighters. Feeding Russian Army when there was a fiew hundred kilometers gap between front regiments and closest Russian supply posts.
I am not even speaking of our role in Russo/Persian war.
English envoys traveling to eastern Anatolia in 1820-40s kept sending warnings to Buckingham palace of lack of control by ottomans of entire Van area that was populated by Revolting Armenians and dangers of Russian expansion to those areas soon or later which would follow by Russian ports in Mediterranean.
There is a line of thread going through history, connecting those facts and then Berlin conference, where Europe succeeded in fooling us into believing in obtaining our rights by europe's help and later the genocide where Europe helped Turks openly or covertly in wyping out eastern Anatolia of Armenians.
Our existence in any area had become synonymous with opportunity and guarantee of Russia's advancement.
We have kept our eyes shut to our own history.
Look what is happening now. History is repeating. All 102nd base cannot exist without Armenian members and Armenian involvement in border. Do you think it is only happening now because there is Armenia as a country?
In 18th, 19th century too, how many decrees by our church and leaders has sent waves of volunteers and materiel in keeping Russian armies existence there?
There is the history and Russia perfectly is aware of it in establishing joint commands and units today, in anticipation of coming conflicts with turkey and NATO.
History is repeating itself. If war breaks out, Russian soldier is not going to stand up like Armenian soldier. This is not Donbas for Russians. But is Sardarapat for us. Moscow knows this and that is why is investing military on this line of Defence.
In case of war, a couple of hundred thousand Armenians are going to fight like mad in here.
Russia itself can never generate a couple hundred thousand soldiers fighting like that in every 300 km segment of it's vast border or front lines. It can do so only in small (relatively) heartland area.
Comment