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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Originally posted by Hakob View Post
    “We believe that the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict can be settled. It’s evident in results of multiple meetings, which led to mutual understanding in the issues important for the settlement,” Sergey Lavrov said.

    According to him, those are issues such as “security, humanity, return of certain NK areas and definition of the status of Nagorno-Karabakh”.

    “We agree on most of those points,” Sergey Lavrov noted. “However, there are two or three topics, key parts of the final package, which are still being discussed. To be honest, we are far from the time when the conflict parties form a common approach to these aspects.”

    Elmar Mammadyarov noted that Russia takes serious measures towards settlement of the NK issue.

    “We discussed in detail today the direction we need to move in. There are some preconditions, more or less,” said Azerbaijani Foreign Minister.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So, basicslly Lavrov is still voicing his plan, which means that Russia has not yet given up of using Artsakh to bring Azerbaijan under complete controll.
    For this plan we say "Հարսի ոռով ուզում ա փեսուն լավություն անի։".
    Let's see what is lavrov talking about, what points there are to agree, while Mamediarov is sticking his head out from under Lavrov's armpit with agreement? What base points?
    1) Security... who's talking about security, Azeris? What Kind of security can Azerbaijan and it's main weapons supplier guarantee above what our army does for us? Nothing more....
    2) Humanity... ??? Even any civilized country like ones in Europe have never proven of any reliable or valuable human values to bank on humanity's name let alone Russia (no offense, but expecting anything meaningful will be brainless from our part). But talking about this with azery on his side? Makes the whole thing a clownade doesn't it?
    3) "Return of certain NK areas"... Ahhhaaa... here is all the talk about. Լավրովի ամբողջ փորացավը էս ա...
    This is what all about Lavrov and Mamefiucov talk seriosely and want to agree badly.
    If our government does not put a stop to this and withdraw itself from it, then we can expect it to be a part of a clownade that only leads to dead end.
    Azerbaijan will come out with gains and territory. Russia will come out of it with better position in Caucasus and Azerbaijan under armpit and Armenia under it's feet.
    What will we get from it? "Humanity" and "Security" expressed in Russian and Turkish.
    Are we going to be fooled?
    4) The status of Nagorno Karabakh... the last point.
    This status has been clearly set and cemented by blood of 10000 of our heroes. Does it need any clarification or Russo/Turkish approval?
    Not if we call our selfs "A suverain Nation".
    No deal, no deal...

    Last thing I want to mention is Russia supposedly saving us with giving iskanders and smerches.
    It is a conduct between two geopolitical allies that without it was evidencing the naked truth of Russia arming Azerbaijan out of controll and balance and seriousely creating a headache of widescale Caucasus war which did not need itself at the first place.
    What Russia does not mind is a slow, nerve racking and all absorbing conflict between us and Azeris that soon or later will make one side to blink and give up.
    From what it looks, it's the most nerve racking for us because we get hurt with each dead young man.
    But if we blink and put our head under Lavrov's other arm, then we will withness second "Kars agreement". Another "humanity and security" in Russian/Turkish style.
    We cannot blink even.
    Good analysis, I enjoyed reading it and liked your way of putting things. Something we should be mindful of, yet not lose our heads over though as far as Russia goes. And I know that's what you're getting at.
    BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

    <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
    --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

    Comment


    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

      Originally posted by Lori View Post
      I don't want to dig up feuds from the olden days, but I saw this post by Artsakh. I think its of great earnestness that this becomes common understanding on this thread.

      Artsakh jan, you are 100% on point. A lot of the parskahyes here won't understand, as they don't know Armenia history before 1850. Before 1880-1890 Hamidian Massacres, the relationship between Armenians and Turks was..."mellow". After the 1890s, relations got worse and it soon led to the genocide by Turk nationalists. That is the history we are all aware of and we all know.

      Before 1890, the Turk was nothing but another Muslim group ruling over Armenian lands. The main foe of the Armenian nation was the Iranians. They have been uprooting us, slaughtering us, and stabbing us in the back for 2 thousand years straight. If we go back to the Ottoman-Persian Wars, the Persians undertook a genocide against Armenians and Georgians. (Shah Abbas deportations) The belief that the Iranians are on our side, or that they would side with us if war broke out, or that they are in anyway trustworthy is madness and must end. We only upkeep good ties with them for the sake of our economy and stability. We don't have any other choice.

      This post was Artsakh's answer to Vishap90s post, which was nothing but a load of crap. (He was saying that Iran is more trustworthy than Russia )

      The Russians have done more for Armenia than any other nation. At first, out of Christian solidarity and empire building. Now, out of sheer need for friends and a better position in the Caucasus. If the Russians did not beat the Iranians and kick them over the Arax river, then Armenia wouldn't exist. It was the Russian Army who avenged the Armenians of Ezurum throughout the genocide. The only case of betrayal was the Bolshevik invasion of Armenia. However, I don't think you can liken the Bolsheviks to the Russian imperialists. Their ideologies are unalike, as well as the ethnic makeup of both parties. Many Bolsheviks were even Armenian.

      Anyways, what I'm trying to say is...enough of the Iranophilia, its cancer. They are as untrustworthy as a thief, and they have shown it a lot lately. I believe it was Iran who let the Azeris go through their territory to strike poorly trained Armenian forces near the Iranian-Karabakh border? It takes a true mental gymnast to believe that the Iranians would side against fellow Shia Muslims and their own compatriots. (10 million Iranian citizens are still Turks)

      The Turks we can deal with, they are straightforward in their hatred for Armenia. The Iranians are indeed two-faced backstabbers, even more than Georgians. I am 100% against have a bigger border with them, or having a border with them at all.
      It's not all black and white. We should be mindful that Iranians can never be true allies, for the simple reason that they would love nothing more than to incorporate what remains of Armenia, along with the rest of the south Caucasus, into their state and would not hesitate to do so were the conditions right.

      At the same time, and under the current circumstances, though, Iran in effect serves as a "life line" for the republic of Armenia, without any exaggeration of the term. Therefore, we should be careful to not cast them off as an enemy, because they are not. The contrary, Armenia's existence is crucial for Iran. Without Armenia, Turkey would stretch from Istanbul to the Caspian Sea. Iran's entire north, heavily populated by Turkic Azeris, would become extremely vulnerable to loss. for this reason, not out of love for Armenia per se, Armenia's exiistance is crucial for iran.

      Thus, we have common interests and common grounds for cooperation to the benefit of both our peoples.
      BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

      <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
      --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

      Comment


      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

        If we could just push our exports to be double what we import, we can have strengthened the country in considerable ways:

        1) Industries that actually have market value and competitiveness
        2) Stronger currency allowing for cheaper consumer goods for everyone in Armenia
        3) Less unemployment

        ---

        We should also focus on land reform so more farmers get equal sized plots of land. 3hectares for each family that wants to farm.

        Comment


        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

          Originally posted by HyeSocialist View Post
          If we could just push our exports to be double what we import, we can have strengthened the country in considerable ways:

          1) Industries that actually have market value and competitiveness
          2) Stronger currency allowing for cheaper consumer goods for everyone in Armenia
          3) Less unemployment

          ---

          We should also focus on land reform so more farmers get equal sized plots of land. 3hectares for each family that wants to farm.
          Stronger currency also kills exporting businesses in Armenia.
          Hayastan or Bust.

          Comment


          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by Hakob View Post
            “We believe ==========
            our head under Lavrov's other arm, then we will withness second "Kars agreement". Another "humanity and security" in Russian/Turkish style.
            We cannot blink even.
            wow!

            Comment


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
              Stronger currency also kills exporting businesses in Armenia.
              It really doesn't. Swiss and Germans, Swedes and Japanese, all still manage to be strong exporters. The goal is to create a competitive economy and not live like some kind of peasants.

              A stronger currency means confidence in the AMD. Means that you are not really at the crutch of the toilet paper known as the ruble.

              Comment


              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

                Originally posted by HyeSocialist View Post
                It really doesn't. Swiss and Germans, Swedes and Japanese, all still manage to be strong exporters. The goal is to create a competitive economy and not live like some kind of peasants.

                A stronger currency means confidence in the AMD. Means that you are not really at the crutch of the toilet paper known as the ruble.
                I agree with you on the benefit of a strong currency. I also agree that the perceived downside to a strong currency is more like economic voodoo than a real detriment.
                However, concerning the ruble, I disagree.
                The ruble is paying for all the aid to Syria. The ruble is paying for all the thousands of sorties flown in Syria. All the airport and harbor in Syria. All the production of SU35s, SU30s, KA52s etc, etc, ...
                The west's contrived picture of Russia is in large part propaganda.
                For a country who's economy is radically smaller than USA/cohorts, they (and ruble) are doing incredible things.
                Don't be fooled by the incessant propaganda of the west.
                HARK

                Comment


                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

                  Corruption in azeristan has been going on for decades yet all the shekelists are all singing the same tune on the same day.
                  Even the carpet muncher shekelist is at it now. Video around 6:30 lots of mumbling

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEekXU2pv4

                  Comment


                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

                    Originally posted by Artashes View Post
                    I agree with you on the benefit of a strong currency. I also agree that the perceived downside to a strong currency is more like economic voodoo than a real detriment.
                    However, concerning the ruble, I disagree.
                    The ruble is paying for all the aid to Syria. The ruble is paying for all the thousands of sorties flown in Syria. All the airport and harbor in Syria. All the production of SU35s, SU30s, KA52s etc, etc, ...
                    The west's contrived picture of Russia is in large part propaganda.
                    For a country who's economy is radically smaller than USA/cohorts, they (and ruble) are doing incredible things.
                    Don't be fooled by the incessant propaganda of the west.
                    It is tied heavily to energy prices though. For an industrial nation, the lack of an open economy really puts question to the Ruble's legitimacy. However, totally agree with you that it is supporting the Syrians, and not detracting from Russia is able to do.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia &amp; Azerbaijan

                      http://www.eurasianet.org/node/82696

                      Georgia getting rid of fighter jets and replacing them with drones, this is the correct way for Armenia s well. We can field 5 times as many drones as fighter aircrafts, save on pilot costs/lives.

                      Comment

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