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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • #71
    Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Edit: F-AGOT should be one word. I am typing it this way because our forum system will not accept that word. This is how it is coming up: xxxot.
    F-agot (one word) is a musical instrument.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Solo of the F-AGOT: Anti-Tank Defenses



    The Russian made 9M111M F-AGOT anti-tank guided missile

    08:45 - Nagorno-Karbagh - Somewhere on the front line.
    Ashod Melkonyan was stunned, his body was shivering and his hands were trembeling. All his fellow soldiers had just been killed or badly wounded as a result of the heavy shelling by Azeri artillery and rockets on his forward observation post. There was blood on his hands, face and clothes...the blood of his fellow soldiers.

    He took the radio microphone away from his dead commander's hands and struggled to speak.
    "This is number 4, we are under attack...shelling...do you hear me?..."

    The 19 year old conscript from Stepanagerd was getting impatient.
    "Number 1, do you hear me this is number 4, we are being attacked, do you hear me?..."

    An agonizing 5 seconds later, came the reply from his battalion headquarters.
    "This is number 1, report the situation..."

    Ashod held the microphone with both hands and spoke quickly.
    " We are under attack, everybody is dead or dying send help..."

    He heard the firm voice of his battalion commander.
    "Dgha jan, what do you see on the front, report..."

    The authoritarian voice of the officier made Ashod regain his senses, he took a deep breath and raised his head above the trench he was sheltering in.
    With all the smoke and dust in the air created by the shelling he did not see them first, but he heard the roar of tank engines and the squeeking noise of their threads. Then, he saw them. One, two, three...dozens of Azeri T-72 tanks followed by armoured troops carriers coming....they were only a few hundred meters from his position.

    "Number 4, WHAT-DO-YOU-SEE? ..."

    Ashod took a deep breath, he was fully realizing the situation now. The Azeris had launched a full scale attack on Artsakh. Strangely, he was not afraid anymore, his brain and emotions had reconciled with the worst he could imagine. Slowly he approached the microphone and spoke his last words:

    "Bolor yergire dooshman e..."
    ..........

    09:12
    The 24 year old commanding officer of the 2nd anti-tank platoon, Mher Arakelian, was a native of Mardagerd. He had just receive orders from his company commander to open fire on any enemy vehicle that came within range (2 km) of his Russian made 9M111M F-AGOT (AT-4) wire guided anti-tank missiles. The young officer had his eyes glued on his binoculars. He was observing a column of camouflage-painted tanks approaching the wooded hill he was positioned on. They were within range. He had 2 F-AGOT missile launchers, each with a 2 men crew he had trained himself. The first crew needed another minute to load a missile container on their launcher. He could not wait longer. He gave his order to the second crew members who were ready:

    "Open fire when ready"

    "Ayo, Kommandir" replied 20 year old farmer's son Makar while aiming his missile at the lead Azeri T-72 tank.

    Kommandir Mher, as he was more popularly known, suddenly realized that the 3rd tank in the Azeri battlegroup had extra antennas. That must be the Azeri battalion commander's tank. He resisted the urge to ask Makar to shoot on that one... He did not want to put too much pressure on the youngster, he wanted to make sure he did not miss his first shot.

    19 year old Gagig from Martuni area was softly speaking to Makar who was carefully talking aim with his optical sight.

    "Gamats-gamats, hanatrd-hantard Makar Jan"

    "Ha Gago jan, ha...tsavt danem"...and he pressed the trigger.

    With a cracking sound, the 12 kg missile with an anti-tank warhead came out of the container like a genie out of Alladin's lamp and sped toward the Azeri armour, spinning behind it the 2 km long wire through which Makar was going to give commands to guide the projectile.

    While the Kommandir and Gago where staring at the slow flying subsonic missile flying over the beautifull landscape, Makar was maintening the crosshairs in his sight on the moving Azeri lead tank. By doing so, the F-agot was automatically getting course guidance upto point of impact.

    The few seconds that took to reach the target seemed like hours. Then, came the hit on the right side of the tank's turret. The shaped charge of the missile spit an extremely hot flamejet that went right through the thick armour and killed the tank commander and gunner. it also set on fire the ammunition that was in the tank... a huge exlposion follwed leaving no chance to the tank driver who was trying to get out.

    "Ayyyyoooo" shouted Makar. Gago was speechless he patted on Makar's back. Kommandir Mher contained his emotions and firmly said "reload".

    Little did Makar know that he had destroyed the first tank in this new flare-up of the fighting in Nagorno-Karabagh.

    Kommandir Mher's 2nd platoon was not the only one firing at the tanks. They were just part of a large anti-tank company positioned on the second line of defenses....
    ...........

    09:17
    Colonel Sultan Yusifov was part Azeri, part Turkman and part Hungarian. Born in Baku, he was the Turkish trained commanding officer of the tank Battalion that was spearheding this attack on the Armenian lines. He had clear orders: Breach through the defenses and secure the whole area to form a "bridgehead" through which other Azeri formations were going to go all the way to Stepanagerd.

    He was swearing and cursing through the microphone and all his tank crews could hear him through their headspeakers. He had just lost 4 tanks with their crews killed or badly wounded. 2 other tanks were damaged and had to be abandonned. Everything was going fine until this sneak attack by the Armenian Anti-Tank-Guided-Missiles (ATGM).

    He knew his 2 options:
    Keep advancing through the Armenian defense lines and try to neutralize the ATGMs and loose further tanks or stop the attack momentarily and ask for artillery support. Having taken enough losses, he opted for the second.

    He positioned his tanks behind a small hill to mask them from further missile attacks and provided his regiment commander the coordinates of the Armenian ATGM positions.

    He was unaware that his regiment's D-30 122mm howitzers were involved in an artillery duel with Armenian 2S1 Gvozdika self-propeeled guns of the same calibers. His regimental commander was helpless and was begging the divisional headquarters to supply artillery fire or air support. All he could get was a pair of Mi-24 gunships that swooped low over Yusifovs column and aimed at the Karabagh defenders.

    All up to now, the leader of the helicopter gunships was hoping to target some Armenian tanks with his own anti-tank missiles. He had seen none of the well hidden battlewagons all day. He had to use his unguided rockets against the invisible ATGM crews positioned in the thick forrest. He took aim and opened fire. At the same time he realized that an Armenian anti-aircraft IGLA Man Portable Air Defense System (MANPADS) missile was coming his way. He banked his machine severly to the right and avoided the missile. His own rockets had also missed Kommandir Mher's platoon and caused only a couple of small fires in the forest. Realizing that they were running low on fuel, the Azeri Mi-24s headed back to base.

    Yousefov was contemplating his next move when, like black ghosts, a full batallion of tanks (2 companies from the west side and one from the south)carrying the Karabagh flag came out of the forrest and opened fire on his beleagered vehicles. Yousefov ordered to engage those knowing fully that his attack is now completely stalled.

    When one Azeri tanks was hit by tankfire, the driver of another tank that was beside it panicked. He abandonned his vehicle and ran towards the rear. The other 2 crew members, realizing that they were no longer mobile, came out of their hatches and followed the driver.

    Almost simultaneously, another tank went into a ditch with its crew quickly leaving it to its fate and running away. Another tank driver who was positioning himself to fire on the Armenian tanks collided with Yousifov's tank...

    The crew of the last tank in the Azeri battle group took matters upon their own hands and decided it was not worth risking their lives. They reversed their steel chariot and headed back to Azerbaijan...Out of the 31 tanks of Yusifov's battalion, it was the only one that made it back safely. All the others were either destroyed or captured by the jubiliant Artsakh defenders. Yusifov's charred body was later on repatriated to his country.
    ..............

    14:48
    The anti-tank company (that Kommandir Mher's platoon was attached to) was regrouping east of their original positions - right on the original frontal observation post of the late Ashod Melkonyan. Armenian tanks were now advancing deep inside Azerbaijan with the enemy fully in retreat and abandonning vasts amount of military equipment.

    "Abrek" said the anti-tank company commander with a big smile on his wind battered face.
    Kommandir Mher and the other platoon chiefs realized that they had no Armenian Brandy to celebrate with...


    ZORAVAR
    Last edited by ZORAVAR; 09-20-2008, 11:29 PM.
    "Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will plough for those who didn't"

    Comment


    • #72
      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      The above was an almost poetic way of illustrating a very plausible way events can turn in case of an Azeri all out asault on our lands.

      I wanted to highlight the importance of Anti-tank weponry in this kind of conflict.

      Unlike the wide open deserts of the Middle-east with no cover, the forested mountainous topography of Artsakh does not favour tanks very much. With few roads and little space to maneuver, tanks and other armour will have to pass through bottlenecks, choke-points etc. Ideal for anti-tank ambushes.

      Our military high-command fully appreciates the value of these systems that don't cost an arm and leg to buy and operate. I am certain of this because I am seing (in photos) a proliferation of various types of anti-tank weapons in our army.

      Here is a brief discription of what we have:

      1. Short range systems:


      The famous RPG-7


      The more modern RPG-22 with the rockets taken out of the launch tubes.

      We are talking about the world famous RPGs. Depending on the model, their range is upto 900m.
      Most people have seen the RPG-7 on news clips from the Middle-East, Afghanistan etc. But there ae many different other models with different characteristics.

      RPGs are not missiles that you can guide to the target by making corrections all the time. They are unguided rockets that you aim and shoot.

      Some larger models like the RPG-29 can pierce the latest tanks with the thickest armour.


      2. Medium range systems:


      The 9M111 F-AGOT medium range guided antitank missile complex


      The bigger cousin of the F-AGOT is the KONKURS. Here seen carried on BRDM-2 scout vehicles.


      Kommandir Mher's weapon. The range is up to 2 km. The missile is guided and course is corected during flight. Deadly against tanks or other vehicles on the move.

      The longer range version of the 9M111 F-AGOT is called 9M113 KONKURS. Its range is up to 4 km. It can be retrofitted on F-AGOT launchers, but being heavier it is normally carried on vehicles like the BRDM-2 in the above photo.


      3. Long range systems:


      SHTURM-S long range ATGM carried on MT-LB tracked vehicles.



      Parade in Stepanagerd. In the background, a company of SHTURM-S

      These are our aces. With a range of 5500 m with the SHTURM missile or 6000 m with the newer ATAKA missile they pose a serious threat to any tank. Their guidance system is very sophisticated.

      To make the most of the very long range, they are at their best in open areas with unhindered view. A F-AGOT will be sufficient in Karabagh while this monster will be in his own element in the Ararat plains.
      Last edited by ZORAVAR; 09-20-2008, 03:35 PM.
      "Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will plough for those who didn't"

      Comment


      • #73
        Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by Armenian View Post
        Zoravar, sorry a little off topic but what do you think about this report by Moscow news?

        *************************

        Russian Army’s weaknesses exposed


        Source: http://www.mnweekly.ru/comment/20080911/55345897.html

        The article contains valid points as well as some errors. I found it had positive and constructive tone in its criticism.

        After the break-up of the Soviet Union. The huge military-Industrial complex was left to rot during the years under Yeltsin. Many production facilities were closed down and a lot the original production capacity was lost. Also, many of the talented people had to find other carriers.

        With the improvement of the economy during the 2nd millenium. The government is investing more and more in research, development and modernization of the arms industry. Production capacity is also growing incrementally.

        It will take many years to reverse the damage done.

        The article highlights the main issues. But fails to mention that the 58th army is one of the least modern units. They never bothered because their weapon systems are adequate to fight Chechnian and Georgian wars.

        Some errors in the article: T-90 tanks actually do have thermal night sights (made by Thales- France). The airforce is getting modern targetting systems on the Su-25s that are being modernized these days. There are about a couple of dozen of them ready plus more on the way. It is a slow process. Same story with many other systems.

        The Russians are also adopting various new types of weapons: UAVs, Mi-28 and Ka-52 helicopter gunships, new frigates, submarines, BMD-4 and BMP-3 armoured vehicles, SRUT-SD light tanks, T-90 main battle tanks, S-400 air defense system etc....A lot of types in small batches. As I mentioned, production capacity is increasing. We will have to wait a few more years until we see the kind of massive numbers the people who write such articles would like to see.
        Last edited by ZORAVAR; 09-20-2008, 11:27 PM.
        "Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will plough for those who didn't"

        Comment


        • #74
          Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Originally posted by ZORAVAR View Post
          ...

          "Abrek" said the anti-tank company commander with a big smile on his wind battered face.
          Kommandir Mher and the other platoon chiefs realized that they had no Armenian Brandy to celebrate with...


          ZORAVAR
          Inspiring chain of events...even if ficticious, greater stories of Armenian heroism are numerous.

          Thanks
          ԼՈԼ, Փեփսի Ատտիքթ

          Comment


          • #75
            Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            That was great Zoravar, you must post more!
            “There are truths on this side of the Pyrenees, which are falsehoods on the other.”
            Blaise Pascal

            Comment


            • #76
              Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Armanen View Post
              But do the baboons have nuclear shells as well?
              I am not sure if they do. To be honest, I don’t think we will ever fire atomic shots, unless astvats chani danak@ voskorin hasni. I don’t know why it’s not officially disclosed that we possess these weapons, maybe they are illegal?? I have personally heard from ‘goubitsa’ division leadership where I have served that we have these shells. There was one smaller ammunition storage in the base that was protected with extra personnel and caution and nobody except high ranked officers was allowed to get there. Most of us knew what was it that storage.

              Comment


              • #77
                Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Originally posted by aray View Post
                I am not sure if they do. To be honest, I don’t think we will ever fire atomic shots, unless astvats chani danak@ voskorin hasni. I don’t know why it’s not officially disclosed that we possess these weapons, maybe they are illegal?? I have personally heard from ‘goubitsa’ division leadership where I have served that we have these shells. There was one smaller ammunition storage in the base that was protected with extra personnel and caution and nobody except high ranked officers was allowed to get there. Most of us knew what was it that storage.

                Are nuclear shells the same thing or concept as depleted uranium shells? And could you explain what makes these so powerful?
                For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

                Comment


                • #78
                  Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Originally posted by Armanen View Post
                  Are nuclear shells the same thing or concept as depleted uranium shells? And could you explain what makes these so powerful?
                  Depleted uranium is a by-product of uranium enrichment. As uranium is processed (enriched) it hardens. The end result of this enrichment process is a very heavy/dense metal, much denser than steel. As a result of its characteristics, depleted uranium is used in anti-armor projectiles. Therefore, kinetic energy (supersonic speed) in addition to its dense/hard characteristics allows depleted uranium projectiles to easily cut through steel. Nuclear shells, or tactical nuclear bombs, on the other hand, are small nuclear devices. Perhaps Zoravar can provide us with additional details.
                  Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                  Նժդեհ


                  Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    I have a question for Zoravar and Armenian; would you say that tanks are becoming obsolete because of the latest incarnations of anti-tank weaponry? and if so, what about jet fighters?

                    It seems that Armenia should continue to concentrate on anti-tank and anti-aircraft technology {maybe they are}, would you agree?

                    Comment


                    • #80
                      Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by Armenian View Post
                      Depleted uranium is a by-product of uranium enrichment. As uranium is processed (enriched) it hardens. The end result of this enrichment process is a very heavy/dense metal, much denser than steel. As a result of its characteristics, depleted uranium is used in anti-armor projectiles. Therefore, kinetic energy (supersonic speed) in addition to its dense/hard characteristics allows depleted uranium projectiles to easily cut through steel. Nuclear shells, or tactical nuclear bombs, on the other hand, are small nuclear devices. Perhaps Zoravar can provide us with additional details.
                      Good explanation about DU (depleted Uranium). Yes, they are used against armoured vehicles like tanks and APCs. The Americans used them in Iraq.

                      Nuclear shells, on the other hand, are atomic bombs similar to the ones American bombers dropped on Japan (Hiroshima and Nagasaki). The only difference is the delivery method (artillery vs airplanes). Since world war II, nuclear weapons technology has progressed. Modern nuclear devices are not huge anymore. A small tactical nuclear device can be placed in a 152mm artillery shell and can destroy a whole city.

                      Regarding the posession of nuclear devices by Armenia. I have heard many rumours such as:

                      -We have inherited some ex-Soviet tactical atomic warheads.
                      -We have enriched Uranium from the Medzamor plant and produced our own devices.
                      -We are puting nuclear waste generated in the Medzamor atomic plant inside some of our missiles. In this case, there will be no explosion, just the spilled radioactive material will contaminate the area the missile falls on and make it hazardous for people living there.

                      You can believe in whatever you want.
                      Last edited by ZORAVAR; 09-21-2008, 08:28 PM.
                      "Those who beat their swords into ploughshares will plough for those who didn't"

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