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Politics in Hayastan

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  • Re: Politics in Hayastan

    Originally posted by DieHard69 View Post
    That's 100$ in US dollars, just 100$ to lose your credibility, do you think 100$ is worth losing your credibility?

    Lately there has been criticism of both vote buyers as well as vote sellers.

    I think this is misplaced.

    Imagine the amount of disposable cash that the vote buyer outlays with the view of making it up when elected with a substantial return.

    Conversely the vote seller is in no position to think about tomorrow let alone the future of our hayrenik of a few years on.
    Imagine -- just imagine: seriously, the parent who goes hungry to provide something for his/her kids.
    The sense of failure and hopelessness he feels for not being able to provide for their children. Etc. etc.

    All this suit the governing elite.
    If they are able to keep a substantial percentage of the population in poverty, being elected through vote buying is a piece of cake.

    Commentators express surprise, how a failed government keeps being re-elected?




    Three of ten Armenian citizens are below poverty line



    http://arka.am/en/news/society/three..._poverty_line/



    YEREVAN, November 7. /ARKA/. The poverty rate in Armenia in 2015 was 29.8%, by 0.2% less than in 2014, according to a National Statistical Service’s (NSS) report ‘Poverty and social panorama of Armenia." According to the report, the total number of poor people in Armenia last year stood at 900,000, of whom 310, 000 were very poor and 60,000 extremely poor. Therefore, 19.4% of the population was poor, 8.4% - very poor and 2% - extremely poor.

    The monthly upper threshold of poverty in 2015 was 41,698 drams or $87.2 per adult (in terms of consumption), while the lower poverty threshold was - 34,234 drams or $71.6 and the extreme poverty threshold was 24,109 drams, or $50, 4. According to the report, three of the 10 Armenian citizens were below the poverty line, that is, their monthly income was below 41,698 drams.

    The urban poverty level last year was 29.4%, which was 1.8% higher than in 2008. Moreover, the urban settlements accounted for 61.5% of the total poor population. The poverty level in rural areas increased even more from 2008 - by 2.9%, amounting to 30.4%. The lowest poverty rate of 25% was in the capital city Yerevan.

    In Shirak, Lori, Kotayk, Tavush, Gegharkunik regions of the country the poverty rate was above the average national rate. The highest poverty rate in 2015 was registered in Shirak region - 45%.

    The survey was conducted in 40 cities and 214 rural areas of the country embracing 5,184 households.
    Some 15.6% of respondents identified themselves as poor, and 1.9% - as extremely poor.

    The 17th report ‘Poverty and social panorama of Armenia", prepared by the NSS with the analytical and technical assistance of the World Bank, is designed to assess the social situation and living standards changes in Armenia in 2008-2015. ($ 1 - 476.83 drams). -0-
    Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
    Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
    Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    Comment


    • Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Originally posted by londontsi View Post
      Lately there has been criticism of both vote buyers as well as vote sellers.

      I think this is misplaced.

      Imagine the amount of disposable cash that the vote buyer outlays with the view of making it up when elected with a substantial return.

      Conversely the vote seller is in no position to think about tomorrow let alone the future of our hayrenik of a few years on.
      Imagine -- just imagine: seriously, the parent who goes hungry to provide something for his/her kids.
      The sense of failure and hopelessness he feels for not being able to provide for their children. Etc. etc.

      All this suit the governing elite.
      If they are able to keep a substantial percentage of the population in poverty, being elected through vote buying is a piece of cake.

      Commentators express surprise, how a failed government keeps being re-elected?




      Three of ten Armenian citizens are below poverty line



      http://arka.am/en/news/society/three..._poverty_line/



      YEREVAN, November 7. /ARKA/. The poverty rate in Armenia in 2015 was 29.8%, by 0.2% less than in 2014, according to a National Statistical Service’s (NSS) report ‘Poverty and social panorama of Armenia." According to the report, the total number of poor people in Armenia last year stood at 900,000, of whom 310, 000 were very poor and 60,000 extremely poor. Therefore, 19.4% of the population was poor, 8.4% - very poor and 2% - extremely poor.

      The monthly upper threshold of poverty in 2015 was 41,698 drams or $87.2 per adult (in terms of consumption), while the lower poverty threshold was - 34,234 drams or $71.6 and the extreme poverty threshold was 24,109 drams, or $50, 4. According to the report, three of the 10 Armenian citizens were below the poverty line, that is, their monthly income was below 41,698 drams.

      The urban poverty level last year was 29.4%, which was 1.8% higher than in 2008. Moreover, the urban settlements accounted for 61.5% of the total poor population. The poverty level in rural areas increased even more from 2008 - by 2.9%, amounting to 30.4%. The lowest poverty rate of 25% was in the capital city Yerevan.

      In Shirak, Lori, Kotayk, Tavush, Gegharkunik regions of the country the poverty rate was above the average national rate. The highest poverty rate in 2015 was registered in Shirak region - 45%.

      The survey was conducted in 40 cities and 214 rural areas of the country embracing 5,184 households.
      Some 15.6% of respondents identified themselves as poor, and 1.9% - as extremely poor.

      The 17th report ‘Poverty and social panorama of Armenia", prepared by the NSS with the analytical and technical assistance of the World Bank, is designed to assess the social situation and living standards changes in Armenia in 2008-2015. ($ 1 - 476.83 drams). -0-
      I get what you're saying, but vote selling in Armenia isn't the $100 is going to feed my family tomorrow. It's more of the, "democracy doesn't work, I hate everyone, the country, and the system, so I might as well make a quick $20 and scribble something on the ballot" kind of vote selling. There is a fundamental problem with corruption in Armenia, and it is not just the state, but the people that enable it.

      There are Armenians in Gyumri still waiting 25 years to get a hand out from the government, hoping that someone is going to save them from the sky. That level of helplessness is really hard to figure out. Some people even took homes that the government gave them and tried to resell them. Can you imagine?

      Syrian Armenians come to Armenia looking for work and understand that one needs a skill, a vocation, a drive to thrive. The hayastansi dreams of coming to the USA to make some quick bucks driving a taxi and maxing out his credit cards.

      Comment


      • Re: Politics in Hayastan

        Originally posted by HyeSocialist View Post
        I get what you're saying, but vote selling in Armenia isn't the $100 is going to feed my family tomorrow. It's more of the, "democracy doesn't work, I hate everyone, the country, and the system, so I might as well make a quick $20 and scribble something on the ballot" kind of vote selling. There is a fundamental problem with corruption in Armenia, and it is not just the state, but the people that enable it.

        There are Armenians in Gyumri still waiting 25 years to get a hand out from the government, hoping that someone is going to save them from the sky. That level of helplessness is really hard to figure out. Some people even took homes that the government gave them and tried to resell them. Can you imagine?

        Syrian Armenians come to Armenia looking for work and understand that one needs a skill, a vocation, a drive to thrive. The hayastansi dreams of coming to the USA to make some quick bucks driving a taxi and maxing out his credit cards.
        You are not too far from reality, but small details here make all the differences.
        Despair bears this end of the world psychology. Some People there have had it for a century. Lack of driving ideas and leadership makes elections meaningless for people. That is an opposition problem, the result of absence of an alternative to this sistem with leadership and psichology. Just criticizing current sistem does not give an alternative.
        We spent our national political resources on justifiable and unfortunetly very non justified issues. Justified is the Artsakh struggle. Genocide issue is semi justified. The justice and recognition is very important but does not contribute anything to Armenia's socioeconomic future. But this issue has taken a sizable resources (I am not talking about money) from diaspora and is part why diaspora has not been able to really affect social political life in Armenia.
        We also spent very large resources capital in past 20 years on Europe, west versus Russia and where to go issues. Those valueless and futureless issues in media, political circles, intelligentsia etc, took most of discussions and efforts from social problems which were the most important for population.
        Only now, when situation got so critical, we are reflecting on the real problems.
        This is in part also responsible why our government is of so powerful criminal oligarkhs. Instead of focusing on corruption and monopolies in country we have been beating each other's head for which side is better, europe or Russia? We let the oligarkhs get so powerful that they now can buy every vote, harass or suppress anybody, destroy anybody.
        Ordinary people see this. And what choice the poor have besides doing what is necessary for survival?
        Our opposition only stops its own bs and remembers vote selling when elections are up and it is the roadblock. Some are shaming people or asking to go and vote honest.
        What? You want the simple peasant to go fight the oligarkh for you for all those years that you spent fornicating with Europe or Russia? Instead of being with that peasant and proving your dedication for years.
        So let's take Zaruhi Postanjian for example. For past 4-5 years she has been putting the government in shame and mud in parliament. All based on "democracy, human rights, western values". Good things but valueless for ordinary Yerevan citizen, who had to deal with corruption fraud and robbery from social services to healthcare, pension, schooling, streets, bills etc...
        Now she wants their vote for what? Because she has been good?
        But every voter knows where and from whom their situation depends, where the danger is, who controls their lives.
        Postanjian is absolete allready, she and her fellow oppositionists can't see it.
        Her and fellow Pashinian with their bullhorns clowning in the streets of Yetevan and strengthening the notion that opposition in Armenia is nothing but clownade.
        Last edited by Hakob; 05-11-2017, 08:42 AM.

        Comment


        • Re: Politics in Hayastan

          Originally posted by HyeSocialist View Post
          I get what you're saying, but vote selling in Armenia isn't the $100 is going to feed my family tomorrow. It's more of the, "democracy doesn't work, I hate everyone, the country, and the system, so I might as well make a quick $20 and scribble something on the ballot" kind of vote selling. There is a fundamental problem with corruption in Armenia, and it is not just the state, but the people that enable it.

          There are Armenians in Gyumri still waiting 25 years to get a hand out from the government, hoping that someone is going to save them from the sky. That level of helplessness is really hard to figure out. Some people even took homes that the government gave them and tried to resell them. Can you imagine?

          Syrian Armenians come to Armenia looking for work and understand that one needs a skill, a vocation, a drive to thrive. The hayastansi dreams of coming to the USA to make some quick bucks driving a taxi and maxing out his credit cards.
          I think you are fuzzing the issue by putting the Syrian Armenians, the population of earthquake struck region and the dreamer who wants to become rich by driving a cab in the USA.

          Since you were harsh towards the earthquake struck population ( rather their remnants) I will address that.

          If your house burns down you either get compensation from insurance or use your funds, borrowings etc to rebuild and get on with life.

          If you are a victim of an earthquake or any other calamity then it is the state's responsibility to support the victims since there will be no jobs, homes, infrastructure etc.

          Naturally the Government of the time promised to help but did not.

          Years later external help was provided by Kirk Kirkorian, I understand around $200 million. That disappeared in thin air.

          Any money spent was used through Serge Sarkisyan conduit to squander the money. I have in mind a US company called Glendale Heights.
          I understand they have links to one of the Serjigs brothers.

          For you to cynically to say that “hoping that someone will save them from the sky” is a disgrace.

          You should go and live and work in Gyumry and lets see how dignified a life you will be able to lead.
          Forget about buying a house as well.
          And I do not mean taking your savings with you but the state you would have been in after an earthquake.

          .
          Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
          Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
          Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

          Comment


          • Re: Politics in Hayastan

            Originally posted by londontsi View Post
            I think you are fuzzing the issue by putting the Syrian Armenians, the population of earthquake struck region and the dreamer who wants to become rich by driving a cab in the USA.

            Since you were harsh towards the earthquake struck population ( rather their remnants) I will address that.

            If your house burns down you either get compensation from insurance or use your funds, borrowings etc to rebuild and get on with life.

            If you are a victim of an earthquake or any other calamity then it is the state's responsibility to support the victims since there will be no jobs, homes, infrastructure etc.

            Naturally the Government of the time promised to help but did not.

            Years later external help was provided by Kirk Kirkorian, I understand around $200 million. That disappeared in thin air.

            Any money spent was used through Serge Sarkisyan conduit to squander the money. I have in mind a US company called Glendale Heights.
            I understand they have links to one of the Serjigs brothers.

            For you to cynically to say that “hoping that someone will save them from the sky” is a disgrace.

            You should go and live and work in Gyumry and lets see how dignified a life you will be able to lead.
            Forget about buying a house as well.
            And I do not mean taking your savings with you but the state you would have been in after an earthquake.

            .
            Well said, I couldnt agree more.
            The old native American saying comes to mind ; walk a mile in my moccasins before you accuse , critisize , or abuse .
            the callous response to your considerate post sounds identical to the privileged lambasting the poor for their poverty .
            HARK

            Comment


            • Re: Politics in Hayastan

              Originally posted by Artashes View Post
              Well said, I couldnt agree more.
              The old native American saying comes to mind ; walk a mile in my moccasins before you accuse , critisize , or abuse .
              the callous response to your considerate post sounds identical to the privileged lambasting the poor for their poverty .
              And the criticism of people who have 100% done and are doing their duty to motherland. Fighting in war and winning while their loved ones where hungry, in cold and dark, in early 90's.
              Sending their sons to hold the border and sometimes die by enemy fire despite being in powerty.
              This population is overwhelmed under social and political odds.
              How many fighters did diaspora sent? Few tens (not hundreds) despite constituting 3/4 of nation.
              How much money or political involvement?
              Diaspora should have been boiling now in the face of what's happening in Armenia. Every day should be like aprill 24th anniversary.
              Some may say diaspora is dead.
              Yea, it's dead for homeland issues.
              I was in an honoring evening for a diasporan party leader recently. He is well deserved though.
              But all the gathering and enthusiasm and efforts. Nothing for homeland. Everybody detached like Armenia is still under iron curtain.
              Do this people realize that Armenia is and will be the only guarantor of their identity?
              Without Armenia everything else is a hoax, self illusion.
              Last edited by Hakob; 05-11-2017, 11:51 AM.

              Comment


              • Re: Politics in Hayastan

                Originally posted by Hakob View Post
                And the criticism of people who have 100% done and are doing their duty to motherland. Fighting in war and winning while their loved ones where hungry, in cold and dark, in early 90's.
                Sending their sons to hold the border and sometimes die by enemy fire despite being in powerty.
                This population is overwhelmed under social and political odds.
                How many fighters did diaspora sent? Few tens (not hundreds) despite constituting 3/4 of nation.
                How much money or political involvement?
                Diaspora should have been boiling now in the face of what's happening in Armenia. Every day should be like aprill 24th anniversary.
                Some may say diaspora is dead.
                Yea, it's dead for homeland issues.
                I was in an honoring evening for a diasporan party leader recently. He is well deserved though.
                But all the gathering and enthusiasm and efforts. Nothing for homeland. Everybody detached like Armenia is still under iron curtain.
                Do this people realize that Armenia is and will be the only guarantor of their identity?
                Without Armenia everything else is a hoax, self illusion.
                They do not care. I have sat in those meetings and nothing regarding nation building is ever discussed or considered. I totally understand the bulk of the content of diaspora organizations being about the diaspora, but there needs to be some sort of national identity and effort towards nation building. The diasporans do not seem to get that by ignoring Armenia they are dooming the future of all Armenians.
                Hayastan or Bust.

                Comment


                • Re: Politics in Hayastan

                  Republicans, Dashnaks Sign New Coalition Deal
                  .#### 11, 2017

                  Armenia - Leaders of the Republican and Dashnaktsutyun parties sign a
                  coalition agreement in Yerevan, 11May2017.

                  Just over one month after winning Armenia's parliamentary elections,
                  President Serzh Sarkisian and his Republican Party (HHK) formally
                  extended their power-sharing agreement with the Armenian Revolutionary
                  Federation (Dashnaktsutyun) on Thursday.

                  Top representatives of the two parties, the HHK's Armen Ashotian and
                  Dashnaktsutyun's Aghvan Vartanian, signed a relevant coalition deal at
                  the presidential palace in Yerevan. Both Sarkisian and Prime Minister
                  Karen Karapetian attended the signing ceremony.

                  The joint declaration calls for better governance and "new impetus to
                  the fight against corruption" but says nothing about the government
                  posts that will be given to Dashnaktsutyun as a result. Ashotian and
                  Vartanian also declined to specify them when they held a joint news
                  conference after the ceremony.

                  Dashnaktsutyun is represented in the current Armenian cabinet by
                  Environment Minister Artsvik Minasian, Local Government Minister Davit
                  Lokian and Education Minister Levon Mkrtchian. The three men said
                  earlier this month that they will not take up their seats in the newly
                  elected parliament, suggesting that they will retain their current
                  posts.

                  Dashnaktsutyun received three ministerial portfolios as well as a
                  number of other senior government posts line with a similar
                  power-sharing agreement signed with the HHK in February 2016. The
                  ruling party expressed readiness to extend that deal after the April 2
                  parliamentary elections in which it won 58 of the 105 parliament seats
                  that were up for grabs. Dashnaktsutyun will control only 7 seats in
                  the new National Assembly.

                  "This agreement will be valid during the entire tenure of the new
                  parliament, namely until 2022," Vartanian told reporters. He spoke of
                  the two parties' "joint resolve to effect radical and qualitative
                  changes." He singled out the need to boost the country's security and
                  speed up its economic development.

                  Vartanian claimed that Dashnaktsutyun's year-long presence in the
                  government has created "grounds for optimism" about such changes.

                  The new HHK-controlled parliament will hold its inaugural sitting on
                  May 18. It will almost certainly give a vote of confidence to a new
                  Armenian cabinet which is due to be formed soon. The HHK leadership
                  has made clear that Karapetian will be reappointed as prime minister
                  Hayastan or Bust.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Politics in Hayastan

                    Indeed this is sad but improving depending how good our economic growth is Londontsi, I sadly agree with you and many others stated, but the one thing you guys have stated in common. We are doubtful to ourselves and our people in general, we feel hopeless and anything we do is meaningless, this is to blame on all of us, Armenians, Armenian Diasporan's and Armenians Alike.

                    This is what keeps our country down most of the time despite our great potential, look at that xxxx hole neighbor we call Georgia, that country went from ruins and instability to a progressing democracy in a few years with the parliamentary elections that blew Mikheil Saakashvili's party and gave the Georgian Dream (way to much for their own good) power, we can do that with YELK with the continued Dissatisfaction of the HHK, provided those dumbasses know what the consequences will be if they turn Armenia into a European nation.

                    We have the strength to fix our problems, if we keep our hopes down and doubted all because we have a high poverty rate, a corrupt government or a discouraged diaspora (even if they are supporting us well) we shouldn't keep ourselves down, that was one of my first posts about our biggest problem as a people, and I need our people to know just because a genocide almost wiped us out of existence and Russia Azerbaijan almost destroying our culture, isn't going to take us out. We are in a bad position and feeling doubt is the worst thing we would have as a people and a great tool for our enemies who want to 'Silence' us because of there and our past. Do you get it now, why whats keeping us divided?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Politics in Hayastan

                      Sargsyan is desperate for power in my point of view, should this be in the military thread?

                      https://news.am/eng/news/389394.html

                      Anyways what do we do to Vrej's lair that is Anti Russian propaganda thread mostly posted by him? we shouldn't go full Anti Russian just like the Georgians and Ukrainians did.

                      Comment

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