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Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

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  • #31
    Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

    Im telling you man that guy is a freakin spy just like the bunch of em filling up all these western backed crap like soros foundation bs..so like how much they payin you vrej?
    Originally posted by Hakob View Post
    That's why I say, anybody that bases their political position against one or another factors only, cannot represent our interest overall. No matter how much valid their discussion of history(which again takes only part that suits them) their political capital remains an empty or useless value for Armenia. No matter how much or how strong points they bring about evil Russia, someone can bring equal evidence against west or anybody. Now what? Is it enough to deside our future? I think not. Even the lengthy essays above from lragir about Russia's hand in Azerbaijan's problems with US is a shallow self repeating waste because it misses most important factors or questions. Russia influences Baku. Ok . What about US? Russia is doing it for oil, control. Ok, what about US? Aliev and Putin have secret agreements. What about US and Aliev? Russia will sell Artsakh to Baku, why? Because it did it before. So? Why? Was it the only reason? How about other factors? Why did it sell before? Please don't give me all those black and white reasons. What about US's latest 6 points which appearently were there from 15 years ago? Isn't it selling Artsakh too? Did Russia advertise openly similar points that you know? Nazarbayev tells that Armenia should enter union without Artsakh, like it did all the other international agreements. Ok, not good, but why weren't you talking then? Does EU want to sign association agreement with us including Artsakh? Why are you silent about that? Does EU hold US position on 6 points? Likely yes right, because US pretty much controls EU policies. Then why are you silent about that? Russia bad, Russia bad, Russia bad, Russia bad(it's so easy to throw Armenian government in with Russia and kill 2 rabbits). Ok who's good? Who and why? Stick to that and you'll look more respectfull. "Armenia should have demanded this or that from Russia, rejected this or that". Why don't you look at the whole thing and talk about? Stop pushing us without telling why for a definite end result and not a reaction for your points.
    Hayastan or Bust.

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    • #32
      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
      Im telling you man that guy is a freakin spy just like the bunch of em filling up all these western backed crap like soros foundation bs..so like how much they payin you vrej?
      I don't mean Vrej, he is still a mellow and balanced person.
      But the Proeuro opposition, especially Igor Mouradian, Badalian, Naira Hayrumian and inc. are Armenia's Euromaidan faction. Their existence is more of an anti- something than pro-something. The hatred they harbor against Russia is much much more stronger than the love for Armenian people. That is why Naira was publishing so hatefull comments against public in Armenia, when just 400 people showed up to protest Putin's visit. She shamelessly called the Armenian public brainless slaves that was only good at between Russia's legs doing you know what.
      In their hatered, just like maidan people, they will never realize that they have become mere tools in the hands of foreign power. They will never accept that with their actions they are destroying the country. Just like the maidan people have destroyed Ukraine. Because of the blind hatred, they will even become tools for the very Oligarkhs, that they have despised so much. Just to fight the Russians in a war that was perpetrated by their beloved and idolized western civilization, they will not stop at killing even their own brothers.
      You see, once, the communists did the same in blind hatred of capitalists. We know the results. We know a commy like ideologist when we see one, I hope.
      Last edited by Hakob; 05-30-2014, 03:41 PM.

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      • #33
        Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

        Շառաչուն ապտակ հայ ռուսամետներին

        ՀԱՅԿԱԶՆ ՂԱՀՐԻՅԱՆ, Գլխավոր խմբագիր
        Շաբաթ, 31 Մայիսի 2014,


        Կամ լինել ռուսամետ, նշանակում է լինել թուրքամետ, ցավոք

        Եվրասիական միության հիմնադրման Աստանայի վեհաժողովը ծանր հարված էր հայկական ավանդական «քաղաքական» արժեհամակարգին ու մտածողությանը: Այն բացեիբաց ցույց տվեց հայկական «քաղաքական» մտածողության եւ իրականության ահռելի տարբերությունը, որը սակայն հայերը չեն ցանկանում հասկանալ: Իսկ գուցե հասկանում են, սակայն այլ հանգամանքնե՞ր կան:
        Ի՞նչ կատարվեց Աստանայում, այս տեսակետից: Իրական քաղաքականության, պատմական ավանդույթի ու օրինաչափության տեսակետից՝ ոչ մի արտառոց բան: Վեհաժողովի տանտերը՝ Եվրասիայի ներկայիս իրական առաջնորդ Նազարբաեւը, Հայաստանին ցույց տվեց իր իսկական տեղն ու դերը Եվրասիայում, այն է՝ թուրքական շահերին ենթարկվելը: Նա ցուցադրաբար կարդաց մեկ այլ թյուրքական պետության՝ Ադրբեջանի նախագահի նամակը, որում մատնանշվում էր, թե Հայաստանն ինչ պայմաններով պետք է մտնի այդ միություն: Հիշեցնենք, որ Ադրբեջանը չի մասնակցում եվրասիական գործընթացին, առայժմ:
        Հիմնադիր վեհաժողովը տեղի ունեցավ Աստանայում՝ Ղազախստանի մայրաքաղաքում, իսկ Նազարբաեւը միշտ էլ բացահայտ հայտարարել է, որ այս միության գաղափարն իրենն է, եւ միության կենտրոնն էլ պետք է լինի Աստանայում:
        Եվրասիական միությունը ներկայիս «սահմաններով» ռուս-թուրքական քաղաքակրթական տարածությունն է: Ռուսաստանի տարածքի մեծ մասը թյուրքական ժողովուրդների պատմական տարածքն է, եւ թյուրքական ժողովուրդները ռուսական պետությունում պետականաստեղծ շերտ են: Նրանք հավասար իրավունքներ ունեն ապագա միության մեջ, եւ չեն պատրաստվում այդ իրավունքից «բաժին հանել» ուրիշներին:
        Ռուսները չեն կարող այս հանգամանքը հաշվի չառնել, այլապես կկորցնեն իրենց պետությունը:
        Հայկական «քաղաքական» մտածողության մեջ կա մի կարծրատիպ՝ ռուսները թուրքերի թշնամին են, ըստ այդմ՝ հայերի դաշնակիցը: Այս կարծրատիպը վեր է ածվել դեգեներատիվ մտածողության, որի մեջ քաղաքական որեւէ տարր չկա: Այս մտածողությունը Մոսկվան հետեւողականորեն, հաճախ նուրբ, հաճախ կոպիտ ձեւերով ներդրել է հայերի մեջ, ինչը հնարավորություն է տվել հայկական խնդիրները դարձնել գործիք ոչ միայն թուրքերի, այլեւ ուրիշների հետ հարաբերություններում:
        Հայաստանի եւ Ռուսաստանի շահերը չեն համընկնում որեւէ էական կետում,- սա պատմական ու քաղաքական օբյեկտիվ իրականություն է: Նման պայմաններում, պետությունները սովորաբար պայմանավորվում են համագործակցության շուրջ, շահերի որոշակի համատեղում ապահովելու կամ դիմակայություն թույլ չտալու համար: Հայ-ռուսական հարաբերություններում նման բան չկա, քանի որ Մոսկվան Հայաստանը երբեք պետություն չի համարել, իսկ հայկական անկախությունը համարել է ծաղր: Բացի այդ, Ռուս ուղղափառ եկեղեցին հայերին քրիստոնյաներ չի համարում, իսկ Հայ առաքելական եկեղեցին մինչ օրս համարում է աղանդ:
        Այս իրողությունները մոտ երեք հարյուրամյակ դրսեւորվել են տարբեր հարթություններում: 20-րդ դարասկզբի իրադարձությունները՝ ցեղասպանությունից մինչեւ Առաջին հանրապետության հռչակումն ու կործանումը, հայ-ռուսական պատմա-քաղաքական հարաբերությունների դասական օրինակն են, որտեղ դրսեւորվեցին վերը նշված մեխանիզմներն ու օրինաչափությունները:
        Աստանան վառ կերպով ցույց տվեց այս ամենը: Մասնավորապես այն, որ լինել ռուսամետ, այսինքն՝ լինելով ռուսական քաղաքականության ծիրում, նշանակում է լինել թուրքամետ, այսինքն՝ թուրքական քաղաքականության ծիրում: Հայ ռուսամետները ընդգծված հակաթուրքեր են՝ սա էլ թերեւս «ժանրի» տրամաբանությունից է գալիս: Իսկ գուցե սա ոչ թե մոլորություն է, այլ խորը գիտակցված ընտրությո՞ւն, այսինքն՝ ռուսամետ են, քանի որ ռուսները թուրքերի կողմն են: Սա բարդ հոգեբանական խնդիր է, եւ կարիք ունի լուրջ ուսումնասիրության:
        Միով բանիվ, այս իրադարձություններից մոտ 100 տարի անց Հայաստանը եւ հայությունը հայտնվել են պատմության նույն «պարույրի» մեջ, եւ պատմությունը կարծես թե կրկնվում է: Իսկ հայտնի է, թե ում դեպքում է կրկնվում պատմությունը՝ անզոր, սարսափահար, «տուն պահող» հանրությունների դեպքում:
        Ընդ որում, հարյուր տարվա ընթացքում պետք չեն եկել նոր մեխանիզմներ ու միջոցներ: Պարզվել է, որ հայերի մտածողությունն ու քաղաքական իրողություններին արձագանքը 100 տարվա մեջ որեւէ որակական փոփոխություն չի կրել, ավելին, ավելի է հղկվել ու բյուրեղացել: Նույն կարծրատիպերն են, նույն կենցաղային-դեգեներատիվ պատկերացումները քաղաքականության ու մասնավորապես հայ-ռուսական հարաբերությունների վերաբերյալ: Իսկ դա ռուսներին ու թուրքերին հնարավորություն է տալիս սեփական եւ իրար մեջ եղած խնդիրները «հավասարակշռել» հայկական շահերի հաշվին:
        Ընդ որում, իրավիճակը բարդանում է նրանով, որ այս մտածողության կրողը (համենայնդեպս հրապարակային, իսկ դա նման դեպքերում բավական է) «իստեբլիշմենտն» է՝ քաղաքական ուժերը, մտավորականությունը, ԶԼՄ-ները, քաղաքագիտական ու փորձագիտական շրջանակները (այս հասկացությունները պայմանական ենք օգտագործում, քանի որ նրանք գործում են 5-րդ շարասյան տրամաբանությամբ):
        Աստանայի ապտակը կցնցի՞ հայերին, ինչ որ բան կսովորեցնի՞: Դժվար թե, դատելով վեհաժողովի հանդեպ արձագանքներից եւ նրանից, որ հայերը քրիստոնեությունից ընդամենը մի բան են լավ սերտել՝ մյուս այտն էլ դեմ տալ ապտակի համար:
        Ռուսները երեւի ճիշտ են:
        - See more at: http://www.lragir.am/index/arm/0/com....SsqELICv.dpuf

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

          Armenia ‘No Longer Keen On Eurasian Union’

          Aza Babayan
          Հրապարակված է՝ 30.05.2014

          Armenia has effectively stopped seeking membership in a new alliance of ex-Soviet states dominated by Russia, a prominent Russian pundit reputedly close to the Kremlin claimed on Friday.

          In an interview with RFE/RL’s Armenian service (Azatutyun.am), Modest Kolerov, the editor of the REX news agency, blamed the Armenian government for the latest snags in its membership talks with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan.

          Kolerov referred to Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev’s efforts to ensure that Nagorno-Karabakh is de jure and explicitly excluded from their Eurasian Economic Union in the event of Armenia’s accession to the bloc. He said this is an inevitable reaction to Armenian leaders’ recent statements that Armenia and Karabakh will remain “a single economic territory” in that case.

          According to Kolerov, Russian officials had assured their Armenian colleagues that Karabakh would be “de facto” part of the union if Yerevan avoids commenting on the issue in public. They had also persuaded Nazarbayev not to publicly assert Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity, he said, adding that the recent statements by Prime Minister Hovik Abrahamian and other Armenian officials breached that confidential understanding.

          “Armenia is again trying to pursue a multi-vector policy but that does not instill trust in Russia and the West,” claimed Kolerov, who held a senior position in President Vladimir Putin’s administration in 2005-2007.

          President Serzh Sarkisian and members of his administration have repeatedly stated in recent months that they are keen to make Armenia part of the Russian-led Customs Union currently transformed into the Eurasian Union as early as possible. Speaking at a summit in Astana on Thursday, Sarkisian urged his Russian, Belarusian and Kazakh counterparts to sign an accession treaty with Yerevan by June 15.

          The Sarkisian administration had no plans to join the bloc until last August. The Armenian president unexpectedly changed course under what appeared to be strong Russian pressure.


          _________
          PS: What a crime!
          How can they dare !!!!

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

            Yerevan Silent On ‘Humiliating’ Kazakh Demand
            http://www.armenialiberty.org/conten.../25404893.html
            Ruzanna Stepanian, Sargis Harutyunyan եւ Astghik Bedevian
            Հրապարակված է՝ 30.05.2014

            It remained unclear on Friday whether Armenia’s political leadership will accept a last-minute condition for joining the Russian-led Eurasian Economic Union demanded by Azerbaijan and publicly backed by Kazakhstan.

            A top political ally President Serzh Sarkisian insisted only that Yerevan will not compromise continued Armenian control over Nagorno-Karabakh.

            Opposition politicians, meanwhile, spoke of a “humiliation” suffered by Sarkisian at Thursday’s summit in the Kazakh capital Astana that saw the presidents of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan sign an agreement to establish the economic bloc. They pointed to Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev’s remarks made at the summit.

            Nazarbayev said that a separate accession treaty with Armenia must make an explicit reference to its internationally recognized borders. He said Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev demanded this in a letter sent to the heads of the union’s three founding member states.

            “This is how you joined the World Trade Organization,” Nazarbayev told Sarkisian. “There is a precedent.”

            Deputy Economy Minister Garegin Melkonian appeared to have denied Nazarbayev’s claim on Friday. “Our accession to the WTO [in 2003] did not affect de facto or formally or in any other way Armenia’s relations and projects with Nagorno-Karabakh,” Melkonian told RFE/RL’s Armenian service (Azatutyun.am). In particular, he said, the WTO never required Armenia to set up customs checkpoints on its border with Karabakh.

            Neither Sarkisian’s office nor the Armenian government clarified as of Friday evening whether Yerevan will accept the Kazakh precondition. The treaty signed by Nazarbayev, Russia’s Vladimir Putin and Belarus’s Aleksandr Lukashenko does not stipulate that their union will encompass the internationally recognized borders of their countries.

            “I think that Aliyev’s letter will not have a fateful consequence for Armenia’s membership. I am confident that Armenia’s authorities will not make any decisions at the expense of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic,” said Education Minister Armen Ashotian, who is also a deputy chairman of the ruling Republican Party of Armenia (HHK).

            “I believe that the issue of Armenia’s membership in the Eurasian Union will be solved within the framework of our national interests and within time frames which were mentioned by the presidents in Astana yesterday,” Ashotian told reporters.

            Opposition lawmakers were far less sanguine, expressing serious concern about Nazarbayev’s demand during parliamentary hearings held in Yerevan hours after the Astana summit drew to a close. One of them, former Foreign Minister Alexander Arzumanian, argued that the treaty signed in the Kazakh capital does not address Russia’s recent annexation of Crimea condemned by the international community.

            “We are concerned and don’t have answers,” said Arzumanian. “Why can’t we join, together with Nagorno-Karabakh, a union which Russia is joining with Crimea, a territory annexed from another state?”

            Another opposition lawmaker, Naira Zohrabian, demanded on Friday that Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian personally give explanations to the Armenian parliament. Zohrabian, who chairs a parliament committee on European integration, claimed that Nazarbayev humiliated Armenia during the summit.

            “It wasn’t humiliating at all,” countered Ashotian.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

              Mfffffffffff, Vrej jan inch es anum?
              Hahaha. Read very carefully the Armenialiberty article posted by vrej. I am not talking about that nazarbayev never made demand that Armenia make a separate treaty with them regarding Artsakh. It is a lie by this article.
              But what you should see is that opposition (and I am sure their western sponsors) is trying very very hard these days to insert Artsakh and it's status issues into our discussion center ( I am now seing parallels with sudden announcement by Wallrick about 6 points, which generally recognizes Azerbaijan's suvereinity over Artsakh, and all this coordinated propaganda) and into discussion focus of members of Eurasian Union trade agreement process in hopes of creating obsticle and delay or derail Armenia's entry.
              Now, earlier with the hoax articles in Lraber about russia's hand in Azeri-US conflict, isnt it clear that it is an actually Azeri/US joint action in 6 points announcement which by strengthening Baku's hand it tries to spill Artsakh iisue out of minsk group and into Eurasian economy agreement and derailing it?
              This all, by walrick, Lraber, Armenian opposition, Aliev letter, Bacu's false US conflict is a well orchestrated effort in derailing Armenia's Eurasian economic Union Acession.
              What a propaganda ha? What did I say? Some opposition in us is ready to destroy Armenia, just to get to russia.
              Propaganda and propaganda.
              Actually,the other article above by Hayk Ghahriyan, stating that being prorussia is being proturk, is an attempt of coverup of real alliance developed right now between our Pro euro opposition and/Azerbaijan/Turkey /US in acting in the goal of derailing Armenia's acession into EEU.
              Last edited by Hakob; 05-31-2014, 08:38 AM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

                Armenia president: Nazarbayev's remark was unpleasant, but not harmful



                May 31, 2014 | 18:29
                YEREVAN. – The remark voiced by President of Kazakhstan Nursultan Nazarbayev was unpleasant, but it will not harm Armenia's accession, President Serzh Sargsyan said during a meeting with RPA youth branch in Tsakhkadzor.

                During the meeting, President Sargsyan was asked about Nazarbayev's remark on Karabakh duirng the meeting of Supreme Council of the Eurasian Economic Union in Astana. Nazarbayev spoke about the letter by President Ilham Aliyev calling to to accept Armenia only within its internationally recognized borders.

                “First of all I want to say there is no obstacle to Armenia's accession to Customs Union. When we stated there are 2-3 issues left, we meant 2-3 technical problems regarding trade relations. As to Nazarbayev's remark, it is wrong to speak about borders. What borders do you mean? Karabakh issue is not to be settled in Customs Union. Who said we are going to join Customs Union together with Karabakh? This cannot happen, as Karabakh, at least according to our legislation and at least in our perception, is not a part of Armenia. And, accession to the Customs Union obviously contributes to settlement of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Of course, Nazarbayev's remark was unpleasant, but it will not damage anything,” he said.

                The congress of RPA young leaders brought together 260 members who will discuss cooperation and internal problems.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

                  Originally posted by Hakob View Post
                  Mfffffffffff, Vrej jan inch es anum?
                  Hahaha. Read very carefully the Armenialiberty article posted by vrej. I am not talking about that nazarbayev never made demand that Armenia make a separate treaty with them regarding Artsakh. It is a lie by this article.
                  But what you should see is that opposition (and I am sure their western sponsors) is trying very very hard these days to insert Artsakh and it's status issues into our discussion center ( I am now seing parallels with sudden announcement by Wallrick about 6 points, which generally recognizes Azerbaijan's suvereinity over Artsakh, and all this coordinated propaganda) and into discussion focus of members of Eurasian Union trade agreement process in hopes of creating obsticle and delay or derail Armenia's entry.
                  Now, earlier with the hoax articles in Lraber about russia's hand in Azeri-US conflict, isnt it clear that it is an actually Azeri/US joint action in 6 points announcement which by strengthening Baku's hand it tries to spill Artsakh iisue out of minsk group and into Eurasian economy agreement and derailing it?
                  This all, by walrick, Lraber, Armenian opposition, Aliev letter, Bacu's false US conflict is a well orchestrated effort in derailing Armenia's Eurasian economic Union Acession.
                  What a propaganda ha? What did I say? Some opposition in us is ready to destroy Armenia, just to get to russia.
                  Propaganda and propaganda.
                  Actually,the other article above by Hayk Ghahriyan, stating that being prorussia is being proturk, is an attempt of coverup of real alliance developed right now between our Pro euro opposition and/Azerbaijan/Turkey /US in acting in the goal of derailing Armenia's acession into EEU.
                  Sran assum yen: `Trin e al, OYDZ e` ..........

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

                    There you go. Baku says something inflamatory and US "reacts for the peace, international order and coomon good". Like two matchmakers starting a talk with young man about family life benefits and how bad it is to stay single, before mentioning this beutifull and innocent(ugly and a W.H>O>R.E> in rality) girl to him.

                    State Department: Inflammatory rhetoric damages Karabakh peace process



                    May 31, 2014 | 12:59
                    As a co-chair of the OSCE Minsk Group, United States remain committed to helping the parties reach a peaceful settlement to the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki said during the Friday briefing.

                    State Department official was asked to comment on the recent statements made by Azerbaijani president Ilham Aliyev, in particular the remark saying “Armenia’s fate will be very dark if it does not withdraw from Nagorno-Karabakh”.

                    In a reply to reporter's question, Psaki said: “Let me first say that inflammatory rhetoric and statements that run counter to these – to our principles raise tensions in the region and damage the peace process”.

                    The State Department representative recalled the joint statements by the Minsk Group presidents and co-chair countries from 2009 to 2013 that have made clear that a lasting settlement must be based on the core principles of the UN Charter and the Helsinki Final Act, particularly with respect to the non-use of force, territorial integrity, and equal rights of self-determination of people.

                    “So we call on all sides to redouble their efforts at the negotiation table and to focus on the benefits that peace would bring to people across the region”, she added.






                    In addition, i'd say that recent incursions on border are meant to kinder Artsakh conflict before July signing date. I would not be surprised if things go even further on border in order to derail Armenia's signing into EEU.
                    Create an atmosphere of higher mistrust and dissatisfaction in public for Artsakh situation, then direct it towards EEU signing process.
                    Expect more inflamatory and sensational articles and accusations and desperate acts from our Prowest (promaidan) people like Mouradian, Hayrumian etc...
                    Remember, weeks ago, After Walricks speach, I expressed a fear that This could be start of an effort by US to put pressure on CU alliance and Russia, that could lead to war in Artsakh?
                    Well they'r at it. And our opposition is in with them (worrying for Artsakh Ha ha ha).
                    Last edited by Hakob; 05-31-2014, 01:17 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

                      http://www.lragir.am/index/arm/0/debate/view/99936

                      Comment

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