Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Turkey's bid for the EU - mixed signals

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Turkey's bid for the EU - mixed signals

    While Erdogan and his cronies are bending over and grabbing their ankles in every conceivable way there are signs that the Turkish bid might be in trouble. Though the following article isn't from the European perspective its from someone whom I know to be in pretty good with the current administation and likely reflects their thinking to a great degree.

    'No' to Islamist Turkey

    By Frank J. Gaffney Jr.
    September 27, 2005

    On Oct. 3, representatives of the European Union and the Turkish government of Islamist Recep Erdogan will meet to determine if Muslim Turkey will be allowed to seek full membership in the EU. It will be best for Turkey, to say nothing of Europe and the West more generally, if the EU answer under present circumstances is: "Thanks, but no thanks."
    The reason Europe should politely, but firmly, reject Turkey's bid should be clear: Prime Minister Erdogan is systematically turning his country from a Muslim secular democracy into an Islamofascist state governed by an ideology anathema to European values and freedoms.
    Evidence of such an ominous transformation is not hard to find.
    • Turkey is awash with billions of dollars in what is known as "green money," apparently emanating from funds Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf states withdrew from the United States after September 11, 2001. U.S. policymakers are concerned this unaccountable cash is laundered in Turkey, then used to finance businesses and generate new revenue streams for Islamofascist terrorism. At the very least, everything else on Mr. Erdogan's Islamist agenda is lubricated by these resources.
    • Turkey's traditionally secular educational system is being steadily supplanted by madrassa-style "imam hatip" schools and other institutions where students are taught only the Koran and its interpretation according to the Islamofascists. The prime minister is himself an imam hatip school graduate and has championed lowering the age at which children can be subjected to their form of radical religious indoctrination from 12 years old to 4. And in 2005, experts expect 1,215,000 Turkish students to graduate from such schools.
    • Products of such an education are ill-equipped to do much besides carrying out the Islamist program of Mr. Erdogan's AKP Party. Tens of thousands are being given government jobs: Experienced, secular bureaucrats are replaced with ideologically reliable theo-apparatchiks; 4,000 others pack secular courts, transforming them into instruments of Shari'a religious law.
    • As elsewhere, religious intolerance is a hallmark of Mr. Erdogan's creeping Islamofascist putsch in Turkey. Roughly a third of the Turkish population is a minority known as Alevis. They observe a strain of Islam that retains some of the traditions of Turkey's ancient religions. Islamist Sunnis like Mr. Erdogan and his Saudi Wahhabi sponsors regard the Alevis as "apostates" and "hypocrites" and subject them to increasing discrimination and intimidation. Other minorities, notably Turkey's xxxs, know they are likely next in line for such treatment -- a far cry from the tolerance of the Ottoman era.
    • In the name of internationally mandated "reform" of Turkey's banking system, the government is seizing assets and operations of banks run by businessmen associated with the political opposition. It has gone so far as to defy successive rulings by Turkey's supreme court disallowing one such expropriation. The AKP-dominated parliament has enacted legislation that allows even distant relatives of the owners to be prosecuted for alleged wrongdoing. Among the beneficiaries of such shakedowns have been so-called "Islamic banks" tied to Saudi Arabia, some of whose senior officers now hold top jobs in the Erdogan government.
    • Grabbing assets -- or threatening to do so -- has allowed the government effectively to take control of the Turkish media, as well. Consolidation of the industry in hands friendly to (or at least cowed by) the Islamists and self-censorship of reporters, lest they depart from the party line, have essentially denied prominent outlets to any contrary views. The risks of deviating is clear from the recently announced prosecution of Turkey's most acclaimed novelist, Orhan Parmuk, for "denigrating Turks and Turkey" by affirming in a Swiss publication allegations of past Turkish genocidal attacks on Kurds and Armenians.
    • Among the consequences of Mr. Erdogan's domination of the press has been an inflaming of Turkish public opinion against President Bush in particular and the United States more generally. Today, a novel describing a war between America and Turkey leading to the nuclear destruction of Washington is a runaway best-seller, even in the Turkish military.
    • This data point perhaps indicates the Islamists' progress toward also transforming the traditional guarantors of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's legacy of a secular, pro-Western Muslim state: Turkey's armed forces. Matters have been worsened by Mr. Erdogan's skillful manipulation of popular interest in the European bid to keep the military from serving as a control rod in Turkish politics.

    At the very least, over time, the cumulative effect of having the conscript-based Turkish army obliged to fill its ranks with products of an increasingly Islamist-dominated educational system cannot be positive for either the Europeans or the Free World beyond. Especially as Mr. Erdogan seeks to put into effect what has been dubbed a "zero-problem" policy toward neighboring Iran and Syria, the military's historical check on the gravitational pull toward Islamofascism is likely to recede

    Consequently, the EU's representatives should not only put on ice any invitation to Turkey to join the European Union next week. They should make it clear the reason is Mr. Erdogan's Islamist takeover: The prime minister is making Turkey ineligible for membership on the grounds that the AKP program will inevitably ruin his nation's economy, radicalize its society and eliminate Ankara's ability to play Turkey's past, constructive role in the geographic "xxxxpit of history."
    It is to be hoped this meeting will serve one other purpose, as well: It should compel the Europeans to begin to address their own burgeoning problem with Islamofascism. Both Europe, Turkey and, for that matter, the rest of the world, need to find ways to empower moderate Muslims who oppose Islamists like Turkey's Erdogan. Oct. 3 would be a good time to start.

    Frank J. Gaffney Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy and a columnist for The Washington Times.

  • #2
    We have to read that article with a pinch of salt given that it comes from such a right-wing paper as the Washington Times. But then he shows the U.S. governmet which direction to take.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by nakharar
      We have to read that article with a pinch of salt given that it comes from such a right-wing paper as the Washington Times. But then he shows the U.S. governmet which direction to take.
      Well, we know in which direction the Croats will be sending their payment to. But, in a way, they are keeping it in the family: it's from one group of fascists to another.

      PS, I thought the wino-creature was banned?
      Plenipotentiary meow!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by bell-the-cat
        Well, we know in which direction the Croats will be sending their payment to. But, in a way, they are keeping it in the family: it's from one group of fascists to another.
        Ha ha.

        The public in Croatia is against EU. I'd like to see some of these Balkan countries to grow some balls and tell the EU to f*ck off.

        Nice to see you around Steve.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bell-the-cat
          Well, we know in which direction the Croats will be sending their payment to. But, in a way, they are keeping it in the family: it's from one group of fascists to another.

          PS, I thought the wino-creature was banned?
          The wine drinking human is here to stay.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TomServo
            The wine drinking human is here to stay.
            At least for another round...as it were...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by winoman
              While Erdogan and his cronies are bending over and grabbing their ankles in every conceivable way there are signs that the Turkish bid might be in trouble. Though the following article isn't from the European perspective its from someone whom I know to be in pretty good with the current administation and likely reflects their thinking to a great degree.

              'No' to Islamist Turkey

              By Frank J. Gaffney Jr.
              September 27, 2005

              On Oct. 3, representatives of the European Union and the Turkish government of Islamist Recep Erdogan will meet to determine if Muslim Turkey will be allowed to seek full membership in the EU. It will be best for Turkey, to say nothing of Europe and the West more generally, if the EU answer under present circumstances is: "Thanks, but no thanks."
              The reason Europe should politely, but firmly, reject Turkey's bid should be clear: Prime Minister Erdogan is systematically turning his country from a Muslim secular democracy into an Islamofascist state governed by an ideology anathema to European values and freedoms.
              Evidence of such an ominous transformation is not hard to find.
              • Turkey is awash with billions of dollars in what is known as "green money," apparently emanating from funds Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf states withdrew from the United States after September 11, 2001. U.S. policymakers are concerned this unaccountable cash is laundered in Turkey, then used to finance businesses and generate new revenue streams for Islamofascist terrorism. At the very least, everything else on Mr. Erdogan's Islamist agenda is lubricated by these resources.
              • Turkey's traditionally secular educational system is being steadily supplanted by madrassa-style "imam hatip" schools and other institutions where students are taught only the Koran and its interpretation according to the Islamofascists. The prime minister is himself an imam hatip school graduate and has championed lowering the age at which children can be subjected to their form of radical religious indoctrination from 12 years old to 4. And in 2005, experts expect 1,215,000 Turkish students to graduate from such schools.
              • Products of such an education are ill-equipped to do much besides carrying out the Islamist program of Mr. Erdogan's AKP Party. Tens of thousands are being given government jobs: Experienced, secular bureaucrats are replaced with ideologically reliable theo-apparatchiks; 4,000 others pack secular courts, transforming them into instruments of Shari'a religious law.
              • As elsewhere, religious intolerance is a hallmark of Mr. Erdogan's creeping Islamofascist putsch in Turkey. Roughly a third of the Turkish population is a minority known as Alevis. They observe a strain of Islam that retains some of the traditions of Turkey's ancient religions. Islamist Sunnis like Mr. Erdogan and his Saudi Wahhabi sponsors regard the Alevis as "apostates" and "hypocrites" and subject them to increasing discrimination and intimidation. Other minorities, notably Turkey's xxxs, know they are likely next in line for such treatment -- a far cry from the tolerance of the Ottoman era.
              • In the name of internationally mandated "reform" of Turkey's banking system, the government is seizing assets and operations of banks run by businessmen associated with the political opposition. It has gone so far as to defy successive rulings by Turkey's supreme court disallowing one such expropriation. The AKP-dominated parliament has enacted legislation that allows even distant relatives of the owners to be prosecuted for alleged wrongdoing. Among the beneficiaries of such shakedowns have been so-called "Islamic banks" tied to Saudi Arabia, some of whose senior officers now hold top jobs in the Erdogan government.
              • Grabbing assets -- or threatening to do so -- has allowed the government effectively to take control of the Turkish media, as well. Consolidation of the industry in hands friendly to (or at least cowed by) the Islamists and self-censorship of reporters, lest they depart from the party line, have essentially denied prominent outlets to any contrary views. The risks of deviating is clear from the recently announced prosecution of Turkey's most acclaimed novelist, Orhan Parmuk, for "denigrating Turks and Turkey" by affirming in a Swiss publication allegations of past Turkish genocidal attacks on Kurds and Armenians.
              • Among the consequences of Mr. Erdogan's domination of the press has been an inflaming of Turkish public opinion against President Bush in particular and the United States more generally. Today, a novel describing a war between America and Turkey leading to the nuclear destruction of Washington is a runaway best-seller, even in the Turkish military.
              • This data point perhaps indicates the Islamists' progress toward also transforming the traditional guarantors of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk's legacy of a secular, pro-Western Muslim state: Turkey's armed forces. Matters have been worsened by Mr. Erdogan's skillful manipulation of popular interest in the European bid to keep the military from serving as a control rod in Turkish politics.

              At the very least, over time, the cumulative effect of having the conscript-based Turkish army obliged to fill its ranks with products of an increasingly Islamist-dominated educational system cannot be positive for either the Europeans or the Free World beyond. Especially as Mr. Erdogan seeks to put into effect what has been dubbed a "zero-problem" policy toward neighboring Iran and Syria, the military's historical check on the gravitational pull toward Islamofascism is likely to recede

              Consequently, the EU's representatives should not only put on ice any invitation to Turkey to join the European Union next week. They should make it clear the reason is Mr. Erdogan's Islamist takeover: The prime minister is making Turkey ineligible for membership on the grounds that the AKP program will inevitably ruin his nation's economy, radicalize its society and eliminate Ankara's ability to play Turkey's past, constructive role in the geographic "xxxxpit of history."
              It is to be hoped this meeting will serve one other purpose, as well: It should compel the Europeans to begin to address their own burgeoning problem with Islamofascism. Both Europe, Turkey and, for that matter, the rest of the world, need to find ways to empower moderate Muslims who oppose Islamists like Turkey's Erdogan. Oct. 3 would be a good time to start.

              Frank J. Gaffney Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy and a columnist for The Washington Times.


              How do you feel now mr Winoman?EU started the talks with Turkey and we will be in there in ten years.You can not stop the natural going of politics.but keep on crying. may be you get more sympathy.poor boys.keep living with your hatred in your heart.That will bring you a cancer.And I will be sorry for you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Mad Turk
                How do you feel now mr Winoman?EU started the talks with Turkey and we will be in there in ten years.You can not stop the natural going of politics.but keep on crying. may be you get more sympathy.poor boys.keep living with your hatred in your heart.That will bring you a cancer.And I will be sorry for you.
                Well FYI - I am very much for Turkey (eventually - with certain conditions being met...) being admitted into the EU - So there - a hole!

                Comment


                • #9
                  MadTurk - I wouldn't count that invite anytime soon however - and in fact it will beyour own who will sabotage the process and who are working dilegently to ensure you won't be admitted - shame really - everyone loses...but you in particular...oh BTW - I hope you will enjoy living in the Islamic Republic of Turkey my boy...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by winoman
                    MadTurk - I wouldn't count that invite anytime soon however - and in fact it will beyour own who will sabotage the process and who are working dilegently to ensure you won't be admitted - shame really - everyone loses...but you in particular...oh BTW - I hope you will enjoy living in the Islamic Republic of Turkey my boy...
                    Winoman,ı like you,you are a funny guy.Keep on dreaming.This really is the only and the best thing diaspora can do.But I would expect a more intelligent thinking from you.İf Turkey becomes an İslamic republic or a Turanic Nationalist republic,in both cases you people believe it will be better for the Great Armenian Empire?Shame on you.More untidemocratic we become more likely there will be no Armenia in the world.But diaspora armenians all over the world trying very hard to keep us out of EU.demonstarating in the streets.'Keep Turks out Turks out'assuming that politicians will listen these stupid stereo words.Any way keep up with good work.We will be able to dialog with you when you grow up,and realise that we are cousins in reality(on the contrary that you cliam we are mongolians and you are a pure white race,rubbish) and stop crying buddy...

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X