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Vive La France !!!!!

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  • Vive La France !!!!!

    The lower house of the French parliament has passed a law making it a criminal offence to deny the Armenian Genocide.




    The turc ambassador's house is now empty after he was recalled to ankara.

    Paris (CNN) -- France's National Assembly passed a controversial Armenian genocide draft law Thursday, making it a crime to publicly deny the mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks last century, a press officer said.
    The bill -- applauded by Armenians -- must now be voted on by the country's Senate. But it has been roundly deplored by Turkey.
    The Turkish Embassy in Paris said Ankara is recalling its ambassador to France and he will be returning on Friday. The Turkish government has threatened other steps, such as sanctions.
    Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has deplored "these unbelievable steps," and said such a law will "seriously damage" relations between the two countries.
    Armenian groups and many scholars argue that starting in 1915, Turks committed genocide, when more than a million ethnic Armenians were massacred in the waning days of the Ottoman Empire.
    But modern-day Turkey officially denies that a genocide took place, arguing instead that hundreds of thousands of Armenian Christians and Muslim Turks died in intercommunal violence around the bloody battlefields of World War I.
    The genocide debate is an annual source of tension between Turkey and the United States, two NATO military allies.
    The White House annually beats back efforts in Congress to pass a resolution which would formally recognize the 1915 massacre of Armenians as genocide.
    Erdogan said he hopes the French Senate will vote down the bill.
    "The issue should be researched not by politicians, but by historians," Turkish Parliament Speaker Cemil Cicek said.
    CNN's Yesim Comert and Saskya Vandoorne contributed to this reportencies.
    Last edited by hrai; 12-22-2011, 07:20 AM.
    Sardarabad,1918.

  • #2
    Re: Vive La France !!!!!

    Baku responds to adoption of 'Armenian genocide' bill in French Senate
    Thu 22 December 2011 13:50 GMT | 13:50 Local Time
    Text size:

    MFA of Azerbaijan
    "The turning of a group of members of the French parliament into the hostage of Armenian Diaspora causes regret".
    The statement came from spokesperson for the Azerbaijani Ministry of Foreign Affairs Elman Abdullayev commenting on the French National Assembly’s adoption of a draft law criminalizing the denial of made up “Armenian genocide”, APA reports.

    Abdullayev said that as a country conducting the mediatory mission in the settlement of Nagorno Karabakh conflict, France shouldn’t have been turned into the hostage of Armenian Diaspora:

    'The parliamentarians voting for this law must also seriously approach to Khojaly genocide occurred before the eyes of the world community'.

    News.AzPicket held outside French embassy in Azerbaijan -





    [ 22 Dec 2011 13:35 ]
    Baku. Azer Mustafayev – APA. The members of the International Diaspora Center and Azerbaijan War Veterans Union picketed outside the French embassy in Azerbaijan.

    APA reports that the picketers chanted slogans “Be just, French parliament!”, “Shame on Srakozy!”, “Stop Sarkozy, French people!”, “Stop aid to Armenia occupying Karabakh!”.

    At the end of the picket, a statement was read and submitted to the embassy on behalf of the participants.

    Chairman of the International Diaspora Center Ismayil Agayev told APA that they protest against the bill outlawing the denial of the so-called “Armenian genocide”, which is being discussed at the parliament on demand of French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
    “Our main goal is to support our Turkish brothers. We call on the world community not to close eyes to the illegal actions of the French. First of all, they must properly assess the Khojaly tragedy that was committed 20 years ago. If France unambiguously defends Armenia, it must leave the Minsk Group,” he said.
    Sardarabad,1918.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Vive La France !!!!!

      The bill -- applauded by Armenians -- must now be voted on by the country's Senate.
      If France is doing it in the expectation of the applause to continue, it will be disapointed. There is nothing that will satisfy an Armenian, he will always want more and expect more (while pouring his scorn on the very people he assumes will freely and selflessly provide that "more").

      But I think there are probably darker motives at work in this desire to create what is basically a thought crime. Maybe some French politicians think that if they are successful in creating thought crime laws against those holding extreme and unsustainable positions, like genocide denial, then maybe they can eventually create them to silence more legitimate opinons.
      Plenipotentiary meow!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Vive La France !!!!!

        Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
        If France is doing it in the expectation of the applause to continue, it will be disapointed. There is nothing that will satisfy an Armenian, he will always want more and expect more (while pouring his scorn on the very people he assumes will freely and selflessly provide that "more").

        But I think there are probably darker motives at work in this desire to create what is basically a thought crime. Maybe some French politicians think that if they are successful in creating thought crime laws against those holding extreme and unsustainable positions, like genocide denial, then maybe they can eventually create them to silence more legitimate opinons.
        shut up already. I've never said anything bad to you respecting your age, but don't cross the line.
        There are similar laws across Europe for the Holocaust. According to European standards this is something that should be expected.
        Merci France
        <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Vive La France !!!!!

          .
          The best way to water down the facts relating the Armenian Genocide is to have it open to debate
          creating confusion and making it “a matter of opinion”.

          Long-term aiming it to be only a footnote in history books.

          Turkey has been working at it partly successfully through foul means, threats
          political blackmail, buying influence and of course the infamous article 301.

          This is a first stage to correcting the vulnerability of the truth.

          I hope it will also bury any possibility of a historic commission for good.

          .
          Last edited by londontsi; 12-22-2011, 12:20 PM.
          Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
          Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
          Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Vive La France !!!!!

            Turkey angered by French bill to criminalize 'Armenian genocide denial'

            By Michail Vafeiadis Contributor / December 21, 2011

            Nearly 100 years have elapsed since the killing of thousands of Armenians, but the wounds seem far from healed.

            The French parliament is to vote on a bill on Thursday making it illegal to deny that the 1915 killing of Armenians during World War I was genocide. The bill, which is expected to pass, provides for a one-year prison term and a fine of $58,000 (45,000 euros) to anyone who publicly denies it was genocide.

            The vote in the French National Assembly has stirred a diplomatic frenzy and French and Turkish politicians are jumping into the fray.

            Recommended: Five ways Tayyip Erdogan has shaped Turkey

            “This proposed law targets and is hostile to the Republic of Turkey, the Turkish nation and the Turkish community living in France,” Tayyip Erdogan, the Turkish Prime Minister wrote in a letter to French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Reuters reports.

            During a Saturday news conference, Mr. Erdogan suggested that France ought to investigate her own role and actions in colonial Africa, including Rwanda.

            Turkey maintains that the proposed bill is a political ploy by Sarkozy's political party to win the votes of 500,000 Armenians in France ahead of next year’s parliamentary and presidential elections. Sarkozy has also been an outspoken opponent of Turkey desire to join the European Union.

            Jean Leonetti, the European Affairs Minister of France, dismisses such allegations and says that opposition Socialists will endorse the bill as well. “It has been nearly 100 years since the Armenian genocide took place, those responsible are dead, it is simply a matter of recognizing a fact of history,” he told Radio Classique, The Telegraph in London reports.

            Ersin Onulduran, chairman of the department of international relations at Ankara University, told Today's Zaman, a Turkish daily, that “only historians and archival experts should pass judgment on the merits of historical events.”

            Although there is little consensus, Armenians say that about 1.5 million people were killed during the mass deportations of 1915-16.

            The Turkish government acknowledges the death of many Armenians, yet, it denies that Ottoman forces deliberately exterminated them. Turkey considers the numbers as inflated and says that Turks were also killed due to the upheaval that followed the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire.

            Many Turks, disappointed and disillusioned by European delays over entry into the EU, are now embracing a more assertive rhetoric.

            “I want to state clearly that such steps will have grave consequences for future relations between Turkey and France in political, economic, cultural and all areas,” Erdogan said according to Reuters. While Turkey implicitly threatens to boycott French products if the bill passes, it has ruled out imposing trade sanctions.

            So far this year, bilateral trade between Turkey and France is estimated at more than $13.5 billion. About 1,000 French companies operate in Turkey.

            "We have to remember international rules and with regard to Turkey it's a member of the WTO (World Trade Organization) and is linked to the European Union by a customs union and these two commitments mean a non-discriminatory policy towards all companies within the European Union," said French Foreign Ministry spokesman Bernard Valero, Reuters reports.

            In 2006, a similar bill was introduced and approved by the French National Assembly but was later dropped by the Senate. In France, any legislative initiative requires the endorsement of both parliament and the Senate to be enacted.


            http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Globa...enocide-denial
            <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Vive La France !!!!!

              This is just as dumb as criminalizing Holocaust denial. I think sensorship of speech of any kind is bad. Whether it is "denial", whether it is hate speech, or whether is it propaganda. What we should worry about is criminalizing criminal ACTIONS. What's next? They are going to put a fine on being stupid? (hmmm ... that doesn't sound too bad actually!)

              However I must say I DO appreciate what they are trying to achieve. It's just the way they go about it is not right.
              this post = teh win.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Vive La France !!!!!

                Originally posted by Sip View Post
                This is just as dumb as criminalizing Holocaust denial. I think sensorship of speech of any kind is bad. Whether it is "denial", whether it is hate speech, or whether is it propaganda. What we should worry about is criminalizing criminal ACTIONS. What's next? They are going to put a fine on being stupid? (hmmm ... that doesn't sound too bad actually!)

                However I must say I DO appreciate what they are trying to achieve. It's just the way they go about it is not right.
                My thoughts too when I read about this this morning. Do they not have free speech rights? Apparently these kinds of laws have been passed before, so I guess not. How do you criminalize thought or belief or the expression thereof? How do you even begin to enforce something like this? *shrugs *
                [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Vive La France !!!!!

                  Originally posted by Sip View Post
                  This is just as dumb as criminalizing Holocaust denial. I think sensorship of speech of any kind is bad. Whether it is "denial", whether it is hate speech, or whether is it propaganda. What we should worry about is criminalizing criminal ACTIONS. What's next? They are going to put a fine on being stupid? (hmmm ... that doesn't sound too bad actually!)

                  However I must say I DO appreciate what they are trying to achieve. It's just the way they go about it is not right.


                  Originally posted by Siggie View Post
                  My thoughts too when I read about this this morning. Do they not have free speech rights? Apparently these kinds of laws have been passed before, so I guess not. How do you criminalize thought or belief or the expression thereof? How do you even begin to enforce something like this? *shrugs *



                  I find both of your statements rather daft.

                  Lets get get this straight.
                  This does not criminalize thought, unless you can read people’s mind.
                  No different than if I go Turkey and I think of the Genocide victims despite Article 301.

                  However if I make statements or write articles or give interviews etc. than I would be breaking the law.

                  No different than as an example I advocate rape as something natural (or normal) or paedophilia as something normal and desirable.

                  There is nothing new as far applying the law here.

                  Cannot understand the “difficulty” both of you seem to be having.



                  .
                  Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
                  Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
                  Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Vive La France !!!!!

                    Originally posted by Sip View Post
                    ....... I think sensorship of speech of any kind is bad. Whether it is "denial", whether it is hate speech, or whether is it propaganda. What we should worry about is criminalizing criminal ACTIONS.
                    The answer is straight forward.
                    The aim of this law is to stop the truth being eroded through “debate”.
                    Removes the opportunity for the interested parties (Turkey) through foul methods water down the truth.

                    Originally posted by Sip View Post
                    However I must say I DO appreciate what they are trying to achieve. It's just the way they go about it is not right.
                    Armenia(ians) have been advocating this for quite some time.
                    They are satisfied with what has been achieved so far.

                    It was very interesting to see almost all Armenian party representatives talking with praise towards the ARF,
                    since they seem to have been the driving force behind this effort.
                    Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
                    Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
                    Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

                    Comment

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