Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Their known S-300s are around Baku anyway and their coverage does not reach Karabakh's airspace (just outside it). As its location implies, they are meant to protect the Aliyev throne in Baku and its oilfields from Iran more so than Armenia.

Thank you for the explanation Federate.

The armchair strategist in me was thinking in case of real war and an exchange, how our retaliation could be effective against the s-300 protected assets.
Mind you my thinking is in the comfort that we have in our military far superior strategists working on these issues !!!!

Anyway, my thoughts were around the fact with their “limited” number of s-300 systems could be overloaded with dummy missiles attacks.
Their s-300s would respond to an extend that their system missile tubes would be come empty and require reloading.

This would ( could) create a window of opportunity whereby for the duration of any reloading of their s-300 missile tubes their defended assets would be unprotected ( I have in mind their oil platforms).

This could be the best moment to come on them like a ton of bricks.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Thank you for the explanation Federate.

The armchair strategist in me was thinking in case of real war and an exchange, how our retaliation could be effective against the s-300 protected assets.
Mind you my thinking is in the comfort that we have in our military far superior strategists working on these issues !!!!

Anyway, my thoughts were around the fact with their “limited” number of s-300 systems could be overloaded with dummy missiles attacks.
Their s-300s would respond to an extend that their system missile tubes would be come empty and require reloading.

This would ( could) create a window of opportunity whereby for the duration of any reloading of their s-300 missile tubes their defended assets would be unprotected ( I have in mind their oil platforms).

This could be the best moment to come on them like a ton of bricks.

I have the best plan to take out Azeri energy assets which calls for a coordinated operation between ground and air forces plus a well timed diversion and political help from Iran and Russia.

Dummy targets won't work and a direct attack all the way to the sea will fail as well.
The S-300s will be useless against an SU-25s approaching over the Caspian sea off the deck
what you have to worry about is the other short range surface to air defenses.

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Eddo, there is a cheaper and quicker way with 100% guaranteed results with no loss of planes. It is cheap, affective and there is no counter for it. We don't need a single plane, they will be used for other reasons.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You can pound them all you want, they expect that......but if you are cunning and use the element of suprise then many Armenian soldiers lives wll be saved and the enemy will loose its war efforts early in the game.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Effectiveness of S-300


The S-300 system hit accuracy is around 70-80%
By sending two missiles against a target the hit accuracy go up to 90-95%

Each system of S-300 has 4 missiles.
This means that when 2 targets have been attacked ( defended against ) the the system will have to be reloaded.

No. There are 4 missiles on each launch vehicle. Each S-300 battery has a few launch vehicles.

If the S-300 system was “provoked” with dummy (or real ) missiles it would not take much effort to empty its missiles.
Therefore a window of opportunity will exist during reloading of the tubes.

Intended targets will be vulnerable to “real” attacks.

In theory, yes... But the SAM crews are trained for this kind of situations too. It is not easy to fool them.

The S-300 installation itself could be attacked and destroyed.

Nothing is invincible.
In the cat & mouse game of aircraft versus SAM, it is the better prepared and better trained crew that prevails.

Also how many actual missiles have been sold to the Azeri and will the Russians resupply if they needed more of them

From memory, about 112 missiles were delivered when the 2 batteries were supplied. No further deliveries happened. The Azeris have fired a few of these missiles in trainings.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Probably a silly question --- can an s300 be used against an s300 ?
Artashes

S-300 missiles are just too fast. An S-300 will have very limited (if any) potential against another one.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Thanks for the reply.

Is that 60x4 missile tubes?

We have 3 batteries of S-300. If each battery has 4 launchers (each with a quartet of missiles):that will make 3 x 4 x 4 = 48 missiles ready to fire.

The Azeris have 2 batteries: 2 x 4 x 4 = 32 missiles.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

All the air defense systems work together, Armenia has everything except the pansir.

No we don't. From that video, the only system we have is the good old S-125 (shown at 5.20) and of course the S-300.
We have none of the Tunguska, TOR, BUK and Pantsir systems shown. While the S-300V model is used only by the Russian forces in Armenia.
We also have the old but still usefull Shilkas and Krugs as well as the very good OSA sytems.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Their known S-300s are around Baku anyway and their coverage does not reach Karabakh's airspace (just outside it). As its location implies, they are meant to protect the Aliyev throne in Baku and its oilfields from Iran more so than Armenia.

Those ranges are for targets at high altitude.
As I have explained many months ago on this thread, because of the curvature of the earth, the range of these long range missiles diminishes if the target flies at lower & lower altitudes.
The effective range of an S-300 system against an Su-25 flying at very low altitude (and our pilots train for that) is no more than 30 km.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I have the best plan to take out Azeri energy assets which calls for a coordinated operation between ground and air forces plus a well timed diversion and political help from Iran and Russia.

Dummy targets won't work and a direct attack all the way to the sea will fail as well.
The S-300s will be useless against an SU-25s approaching over the Caspian sea off the deck
what you have to worry about is the other short range surface to air defenses.

Correct.
Unless we want to hit the heartland of Azerbaijan (like Baku or the oil fields), the Azeri S-300s will have no effect on the battlefield because our pilots will not fly at high altitudes and will use the mountainous terrain to their advantage. The main worry will be the shorter range systems on the battlefield itself.
In case the S-300s are brought forward, then they will be targeted by everything (aircraft, helicopters, Tochkas, long range artillery, special forces, etc.). Plus, it will make their juicy targets in the rear very vulnerable.