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    Thread: Atheism and being Armenian

    1. #61
      RAmen Siggie's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by KanadaHye View Post
      I don't see anyone contesting the intelligent stuff but rather avoiding to confront it or pretending it doesn't exist.
      Of course you take it there... Intelligent discussion doesn't require holding any particular position.
      “If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
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    2. #62
      Registered User bell-the-cat's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by Siggie View Post
      Is it difficult being an atheist as an Armenian? It's not easy even if you're not Armenian, but I do think it makes it a bit harder. Religious Armenians love to imply (most imply, the rest come right out with it) that you're somehow less Armenian if you don't subscribe to religion.
      I remember visiting a derelict Armenian church in Malatya with a group of Armenians, some of them were quite religious and insisted that everyone in their group should sing inside the church, and then turned rather viciously on the sole Armenian who declined to do so because he was not a Christian.
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    3. #63
      Anarchist KanadaHye's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by Siggie View Post
      You should review the definition of faith. There's no faith required for lack of belief.
      So why are you preaching your lack of belief?
      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

    4. #64
      RAmen Siggie's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by KanadaHye View Post
      So why are you preaching your lack of belief?
      *reads previous posts* I don't see any preaching and how does that influence the definition of the word faith?
      “If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
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    5. #65
      Registered User bell-the-cat's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by Siggie View Post
      You should review the definition of faith. There's no faith required for lack of belief.
      We don't necessarily need proof or evidence for lack of belief. It's often just a matter of not believing in the most unlikely thing (i.e., some invisible god who was never born, who never dies, and who created everything in 7 days). Lack of belief is the pure, initial form - it is what we are born with. Unfortunately we are also all born with an evolutionary ability to quickly copy and accept things unthinkingly - fine for basic evolutionary survival, but a bad thing in many other ways.

      You said you were "still an atheist by middle school" so maybe I could assume you always were one, even before you could put a name to it?
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    6. #66
      Anarchist KanadaHye's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by Siggie View Post
      *reads previous posts* I don't see any preaching and how does that influence the definition of the word faith?
      You're mocking something in your signature which you don't have evidence exists. Atheism is a concept. Faith is belief in a concept. So you claim there is no God(s) but then blame the world for (something that doesn't exist). Doesn't make much sense. So to solve the problem, you wish to eliminate (something that doesn't exist). Logical no?
      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

    7. #67
      RAmen Siggie's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      We don't necessarily need proof or evidence for lack of belief. It's often just a matter of not believing in the most unlikely thing (i.e., some invisible god who was never born, who never dies, and who created everything in 7 days). Lack of belief is the pure, initial form - it is what we are born with. Unfortunately we are also all born with an evolutionary ability to quickly copy and accept things unthinkingly - fine for basic evolutionary survival, but a bad thing in many other ways.
      That's my point... Faith = belief without evidence
      Atheism = lack of religious belief
      There's simply not evidence for me to believe. If there was, I would be open to changing my mind.
      That's why non-believers use FSM to illustrate. If you're told there's a plate of pasta that rules the universe, naturally you'd want evidence of that.
      You hit on something else that's important as well... Believers like to attempt to get non-theists to concede it's possible as if that's some telling admission. Something with a near zero probability is still technically possible, but at some point, in order to be able to make sense of the world, we must require a minimum likelihood for accepting something as probably true and therefore changing your behavior, thoughts, etc accordingly.

      Quote Originally Posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      You said you were "still an atheist by middle school" so maybe I could assume you always were one, even before you could put a name to it?
      Perhaps. If there was any interest early on it had more to do with rituals and things. It never provided enough or satisfactory answers for me.
      “If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
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    8. #68
      RAmen Siggie's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by KanadaHye View Post
      You're mocking something in your signature which you don't have evidence exists. Atheism is a concept. Faith is belief in a concept. So you claim there is no God(s) but then blame the world for (something that doesn't exist). Doesn't make much sense. So to solve the problem, you wish to eliminate (something that doesn't exist). Logical no?
      Let's say:
      I believe in FSM. You don't. Both our positions are operating on faith? Is that what you think?

      You're not that feeble-minded. What are you trying to trap me with? A funny quote by a comedian? That's all you've got? Really?
      I'm not going to engage in such a frivolous conversation.
      “If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
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    9. #69
      Registered User Jinx's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      By three methods we may learn the pointlessness of Armenian message boards: First, by lurking, which is noblest; Second, by imitating the majority, which is easiest; and third by posting intelligent stuff and allowing experience to eventually tell you it was time wasted, which is the bitterest."

      We may also learn that it is against forum rules to satirise Confucius. If that is not the case, why was my post containing the above words erased?


      That was great!
      "By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest" - Confucius

    10. #70
      Anarchist KanadaHye's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by Siggie View Post
      You're not that feeble-minded. What are you trying to trap me with? A funny quote by a comedian? That's all you've got? Really?
      I'm not going to engage in such a frivolous conversation.
      It's not a funny quote, you took it out of context.
      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

    11. #71
      Registered User bell-the-cat's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by KanadaHye View Post
      It's not a funny quote, you took it out of context.
      And your own "Give us the child for 8 years..... " is what? That one is a actually a reworking of a Jesuit saying that refers to the early indoctrination of children with Christian dogma.
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    12. #72
      Anarchist KanadaHye's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by Siggie View Post
      Let's say:
      I believe in FSM. You don't. Both our positions are operating on faith? Is that what you think?
      Exactly. You can't prove the FSM exists and I can't prove it doesn't exist. You believe it exists, I believe it doesn't exists. Both are based on a belief.
      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

    13. #73
      Anarchist KanadaHye's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      And your own "Give us the child for 8 years..... " is what? That one is a actually a reworking of a Jesuit saying that refers to the early indoctrination of children with Christian dogma.
      Someone with your vast knowledge has surely heard of Lenin and the Bolshevik party of Russia.
      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

    14. #74
      RAmen Siggie's Avatar
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by KanadaHye View Post
      Exactly. You can't prove the FSM exists and I can't prove it doesn't exist. You believe it exists, I believe it doesn't exists. Both are based on a belief.
      Oh FFS... I guess I do need to spell it out.

      1) You can't prove a negative. It's illogical.

      2) The probability that he exists ≠ probability he does not.
      Reminds me of the "science teacher" in this story and his grasp of probability (halfway into video).
      http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...adron-collider
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    15. #75
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      Re: Atheism and being Armenian

      Quote Originally Posted by Siggie View Post
      That's my point... Faith = belief without evidence
      Atheism = lack of religious belief
      There's simply not evidence for me to believe. If there was, I would be open to changing my mind.
      That's why non-believers use FSM to illustrate. If you're told there's a plate of pasta that rules the universe, naturally you'd want evidence of that.
      You hit on something else that's important as well... Believers like to attempt to get non-theists to concede it's possible as if that's some telling admission. Something with a near zero probability is still technically possible, but at some point, in order to be able to make sense of the world, we must require a minimum likelihood for accepting something as probably true and therefore changing your behavior, thoughts, etc accordingly.


      Perhaps. If there was any interest early on it had more to do with rituals and things. It never provided enough or satisfactory answers for me.
      The definition of Faith that you have is incorrect and technically Atheism is a faith.

      Let me give you an example I have faith in my friends, there reason why I have faith in my friends is that there is some evidence that they are trustworthy. While I do agree blind faith is dangerous, but there is also reasonable faith.

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