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    Thread: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

    1. #1
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      Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      .

      .
      The course of the Armenian Apostolic Church is parallel to the course of the Armenian nation.

      The Church has a heavy duty in both spiritual and national sense.

      Dangers are real and big, No room for complacency.

      This is a perspective from one of our spiritual leaders.

      Part 1
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ye8ntYTN4

      Part 2
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bDpq..._order&list=UL

      Part 3
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX6Z1..._order&list=UL
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    2. #2
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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/society/news/66585/

      Sectarians in Armenia use promises of entertainment to lure people


      April 7, 2011 - 20:49 AMT

      PanARMENIAN.Net - In recent days, representatives of a new sect named
      the Awakening Bridge Church have been distributing booklets in Yerevan.

      The sectarians are inviting people to celebrate Easter Holidays, promising
      their guests a concert, refreshments and a dance evening.

      Beside, every Sunday, the sect invites people for joint prayers to a concert
      hall at Sayat-Nova 15 address.

      The sect representatives promised PanARMENIAN.Net reporter a two-hour
      entertainment, insisting on their organisation being a branch of the Armenian Apostolic Church.

      “Almost all religious groups in Armenia are involved in various kinds of
      business activity,” the head of center of rehabilitation and assistance
      to the victims of destructive cults stated earlier.

      “Religious group are engaged in gold and diamond buying and selling,
      foodstuffs production and hotel business,” Alexander Amaryan told a news conference in Yerevan.

      “The failure to establish control over the religious sects is a blunder
      of the authorities,” he emphasized. “Religious organizations have
      matured in soul hunting and are penetrating not only into public but also political affairs.”
      Last edited by londontsi; 05-17-2011 at 10:52 AM.
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    3. #3
      Registered User Odysseus's Avatar
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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      When will the Antelias and Edjmiazin Churches reunite? its so childish to split and start violence between Armenians and even separate the churches which have no difference besides a political idea? common, do Armenians want to survive or not?

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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
      When will the Antelias and Edjmiazin Churches reunite? its so childish to split and start violence between Armenians and even separate the churches which have no difference besides a political idea? common, do Armenians want to survive or not?

      Antelias and Edjmiazin Churches are united.
      They certainly do not have theological differences.

      Antelias never rejected Edjmiazin as the Mayr Ator.

      Antelias has some independence with regards jurisdiction.
      Same can be applied to Patriarchs of Bolis and Jerusalem.

      This type of independance is common in many Churches.

      One good example is the Greek Orthodox Church of Cyprus which is independent from Greece.
      Never heard this being refered as "childish".
      Last edited by londontsi; 06-09-2011 at 01:01 PM.
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    5. #5
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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/country-lrahos22158.html

      On Whose Behalf will Catholicos Speak?

      Catholicos of All Armenians Garegin II will be visiting Georgia June 10-15. During his visit the relations between the Georgian and Armenian churches will be discussed, as well as the issues of disputable churches.
      The latter is the problem of Armenian churches of the Armenian Apostolic Church which are located in Georgia. The Georgians claim these churches are not apostolic and are orthodox, although they do not deny that the builders and churchgoers were mainly Armenians. The Armenian Apostolic Church does not deny that but since there is no Armenian orthodox or Chalcedonic church, the Armenian Apostolic Church is expected to take steps to make Georgia admit those are Armenian churches.

      Will the Catholicos be able to solve this problem as the head of only one of the Armenian religious communities, even though recognized by the government as the dominant one? Because in order to admit that the churches in Georgia are Armenian, the Catholicos must announce that they may not belong to the Armenian Apostolic Church, otherwise he must acknowledge the right to existence of other religious communities. For its part, this may shatter the monopoly of the Armenian Apostolic Church, which is indisputable at the moment, despite the existence of other churches and religious organizations.

      The difference of post-Soviet states from those on the track for democracy is the existence of political, economic, spiritual and cultural monopolies. In Armenia, the political monopoly has been crushed, and the society no longer perceived the Republican Party as an autocratic leader which is free to do everything it wants. The economic monopolies are also being crushed. The oligarchs still draw immense profits but are already trying to appear in public less frequently and cannot openly commit unlawful actions. The crushing of these monopolies has not led to destruction. On the contrary, it has only strengthened the country and the society. The outcome of elimination of the monopoly of the Armenian Apostolic Church could also be a positive outcome.

      The visit to Georgia may be a good opportunity. The times of inquisition, uniformity and monopolies are in the past. The Armenian Apostolic Church takes part in ecumenical forums and is quite tolerant to international religious communities. Besides, not all the Armenians were and are followers of the Armenian Apostolic Church, and it does not define ethnic identity.

      In this context, it is interesting in what pitch the issues of the Armenian churches in Georgia will be solved. If the Catholicos is going to speak on behalf of the Armenian Apostolic Church, this issue will hardly be solved.
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    6. #6
      Truthseeker Armanen's Avatar
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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      Quote Originally Posted by londontsi View Post
      http://www.lragir.am/engsrc/country-lrahos22158.html

      On Whose Behalf will Catholicos Speak?

      Catholicos of All Armenians Garegin II will be visiting Georgia June 10-15. During his visit the relations between the Georgian and Armenian churches will be discussed, as well as the issues of disputable churches.
      The latter is the problem of Armenian churches of the Armenian Apostolic Church which are located in Georgia. The Georgians claim these churches are not apostolic and are orthodox, although they do not deny that the builders and churchgoers were mainly Armenians. The Armenian Apostolic Church does not deny that but since there is no Armenian orthodox or Chalcedonic church, the Armenian Apostolic Church is expected to take steps to make Georgia admit those are Armenian churches.

      Will the Catholicos be able to solve this problem as the head of only one of the Armenian religious communities, even though recognized by the government as the dominant one? Because in order to admit that the churches in Georgia are Armenian, the Catholicos must announce that they may not belong to the Armenian Apostolic Church, otherwise he must acknowledge the right to existence of other religious communities. For its part, this may shatter the monopoly of the Armenian Apostolic Church, which is indisputable at the moment, despite the existence of other churches and religious organizations.

      The difference of post-Soviet states from those on the track for democracy is the existence of political, economic, spiritual and cultural monopolies. In Armenia, the political monopoly has been crushed, and the society no longer perceived the Republican Party as an autocratic leader which is free to do everything it wants. The economic monopolies are also being crushed. The oligarchs still draw immense profits but are already trying to appear in public less frequently and cannot openly commit unlawful actions. The crushing of these monopolies has not led to destruction. On the contrary, it has only strengthened the country and the society. The outcome of elimination of the monopoly of the Armenian Apostolic Church could also be a positive outcome.

      The visit to Georgia may be a good opportunity. The times of inquisition, uniformity and monopolies are in the past. The Armenian Apostolic Church takes part in ecumenical forums and is quite tolerant to international religious communities. Besides, not all the Armenians were and are followers of the Armenian Apostolic Church, and it does not define ethnic identity.

      In this context, it is interesting in what pitch the issues of the Armenian churches in Georgia will be solved. If the Catholicos is going to speak on behalf of the Armenian Apostolic Church, this issue will hardly be solved.

      The author should have mentioned why the AAC has a monopoly. The Church was the de facto Armenian government for the 600 years that we were under foreign, mostly turkish, domination.
      For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
      to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



      http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      http://asbarez.com/96582/etchmiadzin...0%99s-ilia-ii/

      Etchmiadzin Slams Georgia’s Ilia II



      YEREVAN (RFE/RL)—The Armenian Apostolic Church hit out at Georgia’s Catholicos-Patriarch Ilia II on Tuesday for making what it called “inappropriate” references to its supreme head, Catholicos Karekin II, just days after his visit to Georgia.

      Speaking in Tbilisi’s St. Trinity Cathedral on Sunday, Ilia attributed the failure of the two pontiffs to settle disputes between their churches to Karekin II’s perceived young age.

      “Karekin II is young and apparently lacks experience,” the 78-year-old head of the Georgian Orthodox Church was reported to say. “He is intelligent but wants to do things quickly, which will not work. I told him that I have a 30-year experience and that staying calm is the best thing.”

      Senior clerics at the Armenian Church’s Mother See in Etchmiadzin denounced these remarks.

      “Considering the logic of the ethics of relations between church heads, it is inappropriate to make such statements,” said Bishop Arshak Khachatrian, the Mother See chancellor. “I will refrain from making further comments.”

      The bitter exchange highlights lingering tensions between the two churches that center on ownership of Christian worship sites located in Georgia and Armenia. Karekin II, who has headed the Armenian Church 1999 and will turn 60 in August, hoped to ease those tensions when he began a weeklong visit to Georgia on June 10. But he and Ilia II failed to reach any concrete agreements.

      Ilia II insisted last week that the Armenian Church should gain official recognition in Georgia only if the Georgian Church is granted the same status in Armenia. He also effectively dismissed Armenian demands for the unconditional return of six mostly derelict churches in and outside Tbilisi that used to belong to Etchmiadzin. He said they should be repaired only “in case of the restoration of Georgian churches in Armenia.”

      The Georgian patriarch referred to several medieval and mostly abandoned churches located in Armenia’s northern Lori province. The Armenian Church disputes Georgian claims to these churches, saying that they were built and always used by Armenian adherents of the Greek Orthodox denomination.

      Archbishop Yeznik Petrosian, another senior Etchmiadzin cleric, claimed that the Georgian side is exploiting the uncertain status of the Lori churches as a bargaining chip in the long-running negotiations on Armenian religious heritage in Georgia. “This is an artificially created situation,” he said at a joint news conference with Bishop Khachatrian.

      “My impression is that there is too much intolerance and manifestations of extremism in the Georgian Church,” Khachatrian charged for his part. “I cannot explain the reasons for that.”
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      http://asbarez.com/96832/georgian-pa...us-minorities/

      Georgian Parliament Passes Bill on Legal Status of Religious Minorities


      TBILISI (Combined Sources)—The Georgian parliament Tuesday amended the civil code allowing religious minorities in Georgia to be registered as legal entities, reported the Civil Georgia online news agency.

      This came after the introduction of a bill Friday granting five religious minorities—the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Evangelical Baptist Church as well as the Muslim and xxxish communities in Georgia—legal status. It was determined that parliament would vote on the matter after a second and final reading, which happened Tuesday, with extensive amendments to the original bill.

      On Monday, Patriarch of All Georgians, Ilia II, in a written statement, urged parliament to not adopt the resolution.

      “We think it is necessary to stop the procedure of adopting the law –the second and the third hearings and to hold public debates on the issue, at least live television debates, to establish common public opinion and achieve consensus with the Orthodox Church, as majority of the country’s population are Orthodox Christians,” a statement by Ilia II was quoted by the Georgian Interpressnews.ge agency as saying.

      “We remind our citizens that the issues are of utmost importance, as it determines the main principles of forming the state,” Ilia II’s statement continued.

      “The Church has never been against and has always been supportive of giving status to other religions in Georgia and their rights, but the government didn’t set up a state commission to study the issue,” the patriarch’s statement added.

      Evidently, the patriarch’s statement did have an impact on the final bill that was approved. Among the several amendments are the exclusion of the names of the five religious minorities while keeping a formulation that those religious groups will be given the legal status, which have “historic ties to Georgia.” The bill also says that it will be up to a religious group to decide whether it wants to be registered as a private entity or as a legal entity under public law.

      Another contention by the patriarch was that the status of Georgian churches in other countries was not addressed in the legislation, prompting him to oppose the measure.

      During a visit last by His Holiness Karekin II, Catholicos of All Armenians to Georgia, the two church leaders were not able to reach an agreement on the status of the Armenian Church.

      The Georgian Orthodox Church claims ownership of several medieval churches in Armenia, particularly in the province of Lori in northern Armenia, bordering Georgia, including one in the village of Akhtala.

      The Armenian Diocese of Georgia welcomed the parliament’s efforts. In an interview with RFE/RL’s Armenian Service on Monday, prior to the passage of the final bill, Georgian Primate Bishop Vazgen Mirzakhanian described such an approach of the Georgian authorities is one “typical of democratic countries.”

      According to Bishop Mirzakhanian, while the Armenian Church’s de facto presence in Georgia had been acknowledged by this South Caucasus state’s authorities, clergy and society also in the past, the final adoption of the amendment will provide opportunities for registration and a gradual acquisition of ownership rights in regards to churches currently belonging to Georgia’s Ministry of Culture.

      According to Georgian deputy foreign minister, Nino Galandze, said the issue was part of the agenda of talks held last week in Tbilisi between Georgian officials and Armenia’s Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian.
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      I thought he was spending too much time on the symptom and not on the cause.
      At last he touched upon it in the end.

      He admited there are problems, but he omited that these were not tackled on time (at all)
      allowing hostile forces a platform to cause more damage to the reputation of
      the Catholicos and the Church.

      I do not think this is a resignation issue, but certainly a wakeup call.
      Last edited by londontsi; 07-21-2011 at 01:16 PM.
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      Catholicos Warned Obama About Georgia’s Abuse of Minorities

      http://asbarez.com/97885/catholicos-...of-minorities/



      His Holiness Karekin II, Catholicos of All Armenians, in December 2009, wrote a letter to President Barack Obama alerting him to the continued abuses of religious and ethnic minorities in Georgia, a cable released Friday by the whistleblower site WikiLeaks revealed.

      In his letter, the Catholicos brought the “unacceptable situation” of religious minorities in Georgia to Obama’s attention, noting that the situation has worsened since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
      “As head of the Armenian Church, our unfortunate experience over the past two decades leads us to conclude that nothing in the religious sphere within Georgia has changed for the better since the collapse of the Soviet Union. On the contrary, religious life in the Republic of Georgia today “except within the Georgian Orthodox Church” is more restricted, repressed and intolerant for ethnic and religious minorities.

      “After numerous years of effort and countless unsuccessful attempts to work with the Georgian government and the Georgian Orthodox Church to regulate the Armenian Church diocese and communities in Georgia, we are forced to formally bring to your attention the unresolved issues regarding:
      1. The lack of legal status for religious minorities in Georgia; and
      2. The Georgian government’s refusal to return church buildings and church properties. We require your decisive assistance to compel the Georgian authorities to live up to their international obligations, among which are the fostering of an environment where all Christian churches, as well as religious organizations of other faiths, can operate normally and have their human rights respected and protected,” said the Catholicos’ letter.

      “The most recent example of the Georgian government’s indifference and wanton neglect resulted in the collapse two weeks ago of the historic St. Gevork of Mughni Armenian Church (built in 1356) in Tbilisi, Georgia; which is the second church we have lost in this manner. This has caused great indignation among our people and Church,” delineated the Catholicos.

      The Catholicos concluded the letter by expressing hope that the US government “will implement the necessary steps to positively affect this unacceptable situation.”
      Last edited by londontsi; 08-30-2011 at 12:08 PM.
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    12. #12
      451, Spirit of Vartan hrai's Avatar
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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      Londontsi, linked to this topic, what number are the congregations in the London churches? Do you attend?

      I used to go to Manchester, but it's only open the first Sunday of each month....................congregation size varied from @ 50 to 100, packed on holy days though.
      Sardarabad,1918.

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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      Quote Originally Posted by hrai View Post
      Londontsi, linked to this topic, what number are the congregations in the London churches? Do you attend?

      I used to go to Manchester, but it's only open the first Sunday of each month....................congregation size varied from @ 50 to 100, packed on holy days though.
      I attend the Surp Yeghishe church.
      I am not a regular but I do not miss the Holy day periods. Also the occasional “concert”.

      Not generally packed, except Holidays when if late can be very difficult to stand inside let alone find a seat.
      Would not like to guess capacity except its a large church.

      The small church ( Surp Sarkis ) is just too small and reaches capacity very quickly .
      I would say more useful for events, baptisms etc because its cosier and looks more Armenian.
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    14. #14
      451, Spirit of Vartan hrai's Avatar
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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      So pretty much the same as Manchester.
      I remember one Sunday as the regular service finished there was a baptism with maybe 40-50 Armenians who'd travelled from the West Midlands. Never saw them before or after, as someone said, " They only come for hatches, matches and despatches."
      Sardarabad,1918.

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      Re: Challenges Facing the Armenian Apostolic Church

      An interview with

      ԱՐԱՄ ԱՐՔԵՊԻՍԿՈՊՈՍ ԱԹԵՇՅԱՆ` Պոլսո Հայոց Պատրիարքական ընդհանուր փոխանորդ


      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

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