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    Thread: Which Orthodox church to join

    1. #31
      Registered User Sip's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      So which Armenian church is the better one ... the ones that are under Etchmiadzin or the ones under Cilicia?
      this post = teh win.

    2. #32
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      I have observed catholics and they are pretty funny. A catholic will sin like crazy then go confess and feel all better about it. Basically do whatever you want but as long as you confess and apologize then your good.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    3. #33
      Registered User Hyegirl's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by Sip View Post
      So which Armenian church is the better one ... the ones that are under Etchmiadzin or the ones under Cilicia?
      Etchmiadzin was the original. What else would make one better than the other?

    4. #34
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      You neeed to read up on some Armenian history. Cilicia was the last armenian kingdom and it changed its religion to basicaly catholisism so the western states would help it against the muslim invading hoards. Of coarse the west abandoned Cilicia and it was overrun by the mamlukes from egypt. This is a good example of how the west has always betrayed the armenian people and should not be trusted today either. If you believe in the mumbojumbo called religion then the true church is the Etchmiadzin because it did not deviate from original practices to appease anyone.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hyegirl View Post
      Etchmiadzin was the original. What else would make one better than the other?
      Hayastan or Bust.

    5. #35
      Registered User Hyegirl's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      You neeed to read up on some Armenian history. Cilicia was the last Armenian kingdom and it changed its religion to basicaly Catholicism so the western states would help it against the muslim invading hoards. Of coarse the west abandoned Cilicia and it was overrun by the mamlukes from Egypt. This is a good example of how the west has always betrayed the Armenian people and should not be trusted today either. If you believe in the mumbojumbo called religion then the true church is the Etchmiadzin because it did not deviate from original practices to appease anyone.
      I've spoken with an Etchmiadzin priest who explained the creation of Cilicia briefly. I am currently reading a church history book, though it is slow as I am doing several things in addition to working full-time. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to some of the doctrinal differences I may run into between people from the two sees?

    6. #36
      Սասունցի Mos's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      You neeed to read up on some Armenian history. Cilicia was the last armenian kingdom and it changed its religion to basicaly catholisism so the western states would help it against the muslim invading hoards. Of coarse the west abandoned Cilicia and it was overrun by the mamlukes from egypt. This is a good example of how the west has always betrayed the armenian people and should not be trusted today either. If you believe in the mumbojumbo called religion then the true church is the Etchmiadzin because it did not deviate from original practices to appease anyone.
      Kilikia was a symbol of Armenian Statehood. As for West betraying us, well we're not European, so I don't see why West would care for us, unless to use us when convenient. Let's not forget it was because of the Germans that Turks were able to pull off the Genocide.
      Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
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      "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

    7. #37
      Registered User Hyegirl's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by Mos View Post
      well we're not European,
      Near Eastern, Caucasian, and just plain Armenian, right?

      Quote Originally Posted by Mos View Post
      Let's not forget it was because of the Germans that Turks were able to pull off the Genocide.
      Because they finished it during WWI or was there something else?

    8. #38
      Սասունցի Mos's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by Hyegirl View Post
      Near Eastern, Caucasian, and just plain Armenian, right?
      Well I prefer the label just Armenian, because we are native to the Armenian Highland which encompasses Eastern Anatolia and South Caucasus. Since Armenian Highland is located in West Asia, another accurate term is 'West Asian' though kind of broad. Genetically we cluster with other West Asian folks, Assyrians, Turks, Caucasus xxxs, etc.


      Because they finished it during WWI or was there something else?
      They actively helped and planned Turks in the Genocide. They even pushed propaganda against killing the Armenians. The German's were heavily involved, and if it weren't for them, maybe would have had a whole different outcome.
      Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
      ---
      "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

    9. #39
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Before WWI it was the British that helped and supported Sultan Hamid in massacering thousends of armenians. Armenian history is full of sorrow and can be difficult to read about because of that but you should educate yourself.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    10. #40
      Սասունցի Mos's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      Before WWI it was the British that helped and supported Sultan Hamid in massacering thousends of armenians. Armenian history is full of sorrow and can be difficult to read about because of that but you should educate yourself.
      Brits have committed a lot of atrocities in their history. Not to mention, nowadays, they are big supporter of Turkey/Azerbaijan.
      Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
      ---
      "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

    11. #41
      Registered User Sevag's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      You neeed to read up on some Armenian history. Cilicia was the last armenian kingdom and it changed its religion to basicaly catholisism so the western states would help it against the muslim invading hoards. Of coarse the west abandoned Cilicia and it was overrun by the mamlukes from egypt. This is a good example of how the west has always betrayed the armenian people and should not be trusted today either. If you believe in the mumbojumbo called religion then the true church is the Etchmiadzin because it did not deviate from original practices to appease anyone.
      Are you 100% sure of this? Do you have a valid source that states that?
      As far as I know, all those pro-catholic changes were cancelled after the fall of the kingdom.

    12. #42
      Registered User EuroArmenian's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by Hyegirl View Post
      Yeah, I know the Copts say Chalcedon was a matter of translation, but then an other argument from the Oriental/miaphysite perspective is that Chalcedonian dyophysite are closer to Nestorianism, which I do not know much about. Do you know why?
      I'm new here, and I see this post is two years old, but I'll reply anyways. No, there is no connection with Caldenonian churches with nestorianism whatsoever. Moreover, the Armenian Apostolic Church agreed with the Caldenonian Churches about the nature of Christ, and even though earlier they were stounch "monophysites" they are now called "miaphysite". Never earlier in history they used this term, but only "monophysite", and when they saw they went wrong they started using the term "miaphysite".

    13. #43
      Azatavrear Eddo211's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Welcome to the Hyeclub EuroArmenian....
      B0zkurt Hunter

    14. #44
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by EuroArmenian View Post
      I'm new here, and I see this post is two years old, but I'll reply anyways. No, there is no connection with Caldenonian churches with nestorianism whatsoever. Moreover, the Armenian Apostolic Church agreed with the Caldenonian Churches about the nature of Christ, and even though earlier they were stounch "monophysites" they are now called "miaphysite". Never earlier in history they used this term, but only "monophysite", and when they saw they went wrong they started using the term "miaphysite".
      Hello EuroArmenian

      Are you able to give any dates or reference any synod where these decisions were taken.

      I was taught at school the Armenian Church was monophysite.
      In any event never fully understood the concepts nor did I want to go deep into theology.

      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    15. #45
      Registered User Etchmiadzin's Avatar
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      Re: Which Orthodox church to join

      Quote Originally Posted by EuroArmenian View Post
      I'm new here, and I see this post is two years old, but I'll reply anyways. No, there is no connection with Caldenonian churches with nestorianism whatsoever. Moreover, the Armenian Apostolic Church agreed with the Caldenonian Churches about the nature of Christ, and even though earlier they were stounch "monophysites" they are now called "miaphysite". Never earlier in history they used this term, but only "monophysite", and when they saw they went wrong they started using the term "miaphysite".
      That doesnt make any sense if the Armenian church agreed with the Chalcedonian churches about the nature of christ why would they be "staunch" monophysites which are viewed as heresey by both the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches. I thought that the Armenian Church disagreed about the nature of christ and therefore were labeled as monophysites but the Armenian church position was that they did not agree with the Chalcedonian churches but that doesnt make us monophysite.
      The Chalcedonians view was that Jesus had 2 natures human and divine. Monophysite that he had 1 nature only divine or a synthesis of divine and human and Miaphsyite which is what the Armenian church calls itself that Jesus was both divine and human united in one nature.

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