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    Thread: Politics in Hayastan

    1. #586
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by lampron View Post
      What about democracy? In this case the opinion of the majority inside Karabakh?
      The irony is that what Israel accepts abroad seems to go against what Israel does at home, as in the settlements in the West Bank.

    2. #587
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by lampron View Post
      95% or more of Armenians in Armenia, USA, France, Canada, Australia, Beirut, Aleppo, Baghdad, Iran, Greece...are united in one aspect. They believe Armenia needs a sympathetic external power in order to survive (be it, Russia, USA/NATO , Iran etc).

      So when Gorbachev and the western media both appeared to favor the Azerbaijani position Armenians from all geographical and political backgrounds began to fear that Karabakh would be lost
      The only time Armenians are united is during war.......I thought all Turks knew this.

      Armenia realizes their position and dependency on a powerfull ally for national security but are now more independent with Armenia independance and liberation of ancient Artsakh.
      Armenians of today do not follow victim mentality but move forward as victors. Only things would get alot better in Armenia if Turkish blockade would be removed. Illigal blockade.
      B0zkurt Hunter

    3. #588
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by lampron View Post
      What about democracy? In this case the opinion of the majority inside Karabakh?
      Conceptually Democracy sounds great, but in practice there is nothing great about it. That is the problem with democracy and the same problem has persisted for thousands of years. Over that period manipulation of democracies has become more complex and more effective. Democracy has become a tool for those looking to use the masses to do their own bidding. A great comparison would be religion and how it blinds people to the truth and is used to justify any and all evil. It is no surprise that many people take the bait hook line and sinker as that is exactly what the master manipulators want to happen. It was a democracy that put Socrates to death for simply stating the truth thousands of years ago and it is a democracy today that prevents the truth from being heard as well. There are many effective tools in this world that can be used for various purposes but what they are actually used for will depend on the motives of the people using them.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    4. #589
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      Conceptually Democracy sounds great, but in practice there is nothing great about it. That is the problem with democracy and the same problem has persisted for thousands of years. Over that period manipulation of democracies has become more complex and more effective. Democracy has become a tool for those looking to use the masses to do their own bidding. A great comparison would be religion and how it blinds people to the truth and is used to justify any and all evil. It is no surprise that many people take the bait hook line and sinker as that is exactly what the master manipulators want to happen. It was a democracy that put Socrates to death for simply stating the truth thousands of years ago and it is a democracy today that prevents the truth from being heard as well. There are many effective tools in this world that can be used for various purposes but what they are actually used for will depend on the motives of the people using them.
      As opposed to what, haykakan? BLATANT DICTATORSHIP? OLIGARCHY? What is your beef with democracy and why do you think it is worse than the oligarchy right now, or the dictatorship that was the Soviet Union?

    5. #590
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by HyeSocialist View Post
      As opposed to what, haykakan? BLATANT DICTATORSHIP? OLIGARCHY? What is your beef with democracy and why do you think it is worse than the oligarchy right now, or the dictatorship that was the Soviet Union?
      You've missed the point (completly)!!!
      To recognize democracy is and has been corrupted does not mean the only alternative is dictator or oligarch. Thats simply dumb or baiting.
      first, one needs to recognize the corruption. Without this recognition, one cannot move forward.
      Where does moving forward lead ? Thats what we are searching for !!!
      Original democracy in Greece was inherently corrupt, because it was only for the wealthy land owners.
      modern democracy is precisely the same with the uninformed masses being manipulated to come out with the identical outcome desired by the wealthy manipulators.
      To point out that democracy is corrupted does NOT mean dictatorship or oligarchy is the only alternative.
      Thats simply ridiculous.
      HARK

    6. #591
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Artashes View Post
      You've missed the point (completly)!!!
      To recognize democracy is and has been corrupted does not mean the only alternative is dictator or oligarch. Thats simply dumb or baiting.
      first, one needs to recognize the corruption. Without this recognition, one cannot move forward.
      Where does moving forward lead ? Thats what we are searching for !!!
      Original democracy in Greece was inherently corrupt, because it was only for the wealthy land owners.
      modern democracy is precisely the same with the uninformed masses being manipulated to come out with the identical outcome desired by the wealthy manipulators.
      To point out that democracy is corrupted does NOT mean dictatorship or oligarchy is the only alternative.
      Thats simply ridiculous.
      How is democracy in countries like Switzerland corrupt?

    7. #592
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by HyeSocialist View Post
      How is democracy in countries like Switzerland corrupt?
      You dancing around the point.
      The accusation of corruption of democracy is clearly aimed at usa, euro fraudulent manipulation which is leading the world dialog.
      To bring in examples of places like swiss or nordic is adeception to point away from the BLATANT fraud of democracy as practiced by the corruption of democracy by usa/euro which are the undisputed lead democracys.
      Your using miniscule Switzerland. As a definition when the conversation is clearly about the cor ruption of the giants, usa/euro ???
      Your argument is merit less and fraudlent in its represent.
      And for the record, have you seen any documentary wirks on the heroin park in Switzerland ?
      HARK

    8. #593
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Artashes View Post
      You dancing around the point.
      The accusation of corruption of democracy is clearly aimed at usa, euro fraudulent manipulation which is leading the world dialog.
      To bring in examples of places like swiss or nordic is adeception to point away from the BLATANT fraud of democracy as practiced by the corruption of democracy by usa/euro which are the undisputed lead democracys.
      Your using miniscule Switzerland. As a definition when the conversation is clearly about the cor ruption of the giants, usa/euro ???
      Your argument is merit less and fraudlent in its represent.
      And for the record, have you seen any documentary wirks on the heroin park in Switzerland ?
      I would hardly call the Swiss miniscule. And for what it's worth, the EU is a democracy. A functioning one with checks and balances. The United States is as well, but there is a heavy capitalist influence in the USA that is deteriorating it. It seems you have a problem with the United States and some Western European countries, not democracy.

    9. #594
      Registered User Azad's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by HyeSocialist View Post
      How is democracy in countries like Switzerland corrupt?
      That country is not only corrupt it is the world hub for corrupt people from all around the world.
      As for their "democracy", they are just lucky to be surrounded by countries that have been their sand bags.
      Check WWII history and on.

      https://www.theguardian.com/business...ce-switzerland

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-...ery-1445506381

    10. #595
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Artsakh elections are model of democracy......even the west admitted this fact.
      B0zkurt Hunter

    11. #596
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      .



      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    12. #597
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Azad View Post
      That country is not only corrupt it is the world hub for corrupt people from all around the world.
      As for their "democracy", they are just lucky to be surrounded by countries that have been their sand bags.
      Check WWII history and on.

      https://www.theguardian.com/business...ce-switzerland

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-...ery-1445506381
      I think you're taking small instances of illegal activity and trying to make people believe that the entire society or swiss system, or even the EU system is corrupt. I don't see corruption there. See the list below. I think Armenians have lived in so many truly corrupt countries that when they hear of or end up living in functioning societies they have no idea how to explain it.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...ceptions_Index

    13. #598
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      I strongly encourage most of my country men not to confuse democracy and human rights with siding with the West or the USA. Human Rights and Democracy are universal. Don't let the US led wars of imperialism under the name of democracy and human rights sway you away from what those concepts really are! That is how people like Asad and Putin scare their people away from their full potential in order for their authoritarian regimes to thrive. Armenia CAN be a democracy, Armenia CAN have human rights for all, and it doesn't have anything to do with the EU or USA. It's all about empowering all Armenians, in Armenia and the diaspora. There are non-Western models for this success in Uruguay, in Singapore, in South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. Look at the positive society's on this planet for ideas, not the negative ones!

    14. #599
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      btw, the US of A is not a democracy........it is a republic with some democratic values.
      Europe is democracy.
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    15. #600
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by HyeSocialist View Post
      I strongly encourage most of my country men not to confuse democracy and human rights with siding with the West or the USA. Human Rights and Democracy are universal. Don't let the US led wars of imperialism under the name of democracy and human rights sway you away from what those concepts really are! That is how people like Asad and Putin scare their people away from their full potential in order for their authoritarian regimes to thrive. Armenia CAN be a democracy, Armenia CAN have human rights for all, and it doesn't have anything to do with the EU or USA. It's all about empowering all Armenians, in Armenia and the diaspora. There are non-Western models for this success in Uruguay, in Singapore, in South Korea, Japan and Taiwan. Look at the positive society's on this planet for ideas, not the negative ones!
      My problem is not with Democracy but with the notion that Democracy is inherently a good thing and the best option. Democracy is just another form of government and it has its strengths and weaknesses when compared to the other forms. The long history of corruption and wars sets this form apart from the others. There is plenty of evidence that democracy can work and plenty of evidence that it fails miserably. My point is advocating democracy as the best option or as a cure for a country's ills is misguided and usually wrong as the problems facing a country usually have nothing to do with the form of government. Time and context need to be considered when analyzing democracy in today's environment. USA today is using democracy to take over other countries. It is taking advantage of how easy it is to corrupt people and to sway people in the modern era(due to technology and mass media). Democracy provides the ideal platform as the will of the brainwashed will prevail. I would have no problem with any of the forms of government for Armenia so long as the government's motive was improving the lives of the people in that country and strengthening it. I do not rule out the possibility of a successful democracy in Armenia but I am wary of these color revolutions and their track record of democracy being used to destroy countries. I think most people (including you) see democracy as the only good alternative but that is not the case. The form of government is not that important. The motives of those doing the governing are very important!
      Hayastan or Bust.

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