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    Thread: Politics in Hayastan

    1. #61
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Artashes View Post
      Of course I cannot understand what's being said in the above post as I can't speak armanian. However, I've been through enough election cycles in the USA to know that anybody can proclaim their concern for the majority. It's done every single cycle and is 100% of the time 100% crap.
      Does anyone really think dodi is going to change his colors?
      And Raffi, look who he's now supporting! Can we assume he'd support -- anyone -- that furthered his advance?
      Dodi wants what Sergz has, ie... Direct access and control of the wealth. Everything else is a front.
      Raffi ... Still think he's a USA front.
      Sergz... Corruption to the detriment of the country.
      Not a pretty picture.
      We need someone fresh who is -- not -- going to flop for western smooze. Their are no quick fixes, no matter what the west says.
      So who?
      Unlike the USA where it takes millions upon millions to run a campaign , a modestly financed campaign in Hayastan could reach the entire voting population.
      I think the $ is there, but where is the candidate?
      It's too simplistic to say Raffi is a western front. There are instances he is favored by the west, but also many instances where he is highly disliked. Taking a look at western leaked cables, there are many instances of the west being bothered by his actions because he takes nationalistic positions when it comes reconciliation and settlement against Azerbaijan and Turkey which have derailed American led attempts to settle things.
      http://armenianweekly.com/2013/03/21...mbassy-cables/

      He is not as strictly pro russian as others, but its a long stretch to consider that being a western front or pro western.

      The reason I originally supported him was because he was a break from the soviet style corruption stench that was fuming out of every other party including ARF. he was very big on implementing rule of law, and an independent judiciary, and creating some sense of separation between the business owners and those who sit in the parliament.

      But to me his fatal characteristic is his inability to make decisions and stick with them. He has had a very big problem with committing things, and often resorts to drastic measures which have hurt his cause greatly. These include quitting as foreign minister in 1992, quitting parliament in 2009, contributing to the separation in the 2011 opposition protests, quitting the opposition unified group in 2012 elections, and the disorganized chaos that was his 2013 election protests.
      Last edited by Mher; 02-15-2015 at 04:53 PM.
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    2. #62
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      Yes, TP is quite so disgustingly unArmenian. Armenia should always continue to do what has never worked before. If a stance hasn't worked it surely isn't Armenia's fault it hasn't worked - its the fault of everyone else, all those non-human beings. So Armenia should keep on with its stance, don't change one line of it, even if it has been unsuccessful 1000 times or 10,000 times.
      instead of listing your criticism of anything and everything, please explain what you think the correct approach is.
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

    3. #63
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      What a sorry state of affairs Armenia finds herself in now. We have a monarchy in the making and the opposition consists of two spies working for USA and a guy who was a lawmaker by name but has not participated in any government activities ever. If Serj's domestic policy was as good as his foreign policy I would not mind him being leader for life, but he has failed to deal with domestic issues in a effective manner. Gago is fairly popular in Armenia (atleast that is the feeling i had when I was there) but he has never looked nore acted like a national leader. Kocharian I think may be the guy to watch for. He has the connections and experience and may play the very role I had predicted he would when a while back he announced the possibility of his return. I think Armenia's politicians might be simply copying what is done in USA and Russia. They form two different parties and have different leaders to give the people an illusion of choice but in reality it is all a show meant to appease the masses while the elite continue their ways. Perhaps this is the attempt at sophistication I had mentioned in previous posts which was lacking in Armenian politics.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    4. #64
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Now let's have some irony, and have an other Prisma to events:

      - 2015 is (and predictably was long ago) by far, the most challenging date in our national agenda since the end of the war in May 1994. For a small nation like us, with so limited levers on regional geopolitics, it was undoubtedly a date to not miss, no matter how sarcastic others may or might be.

      - No matter how Turkey disdains the Armenian factor, 2015, was and is still, one of its main concerns in foreign affairs, since long ago.

      - For the last 3-4 years, the reshaping of borders in the Big Middle east is in full process. No matter what our levers and chances were and still are, this is the biggest opportunity for us, on a national level, since 1920. Turkey's borders are doomed to change in a very foreseeable future, and regardless our will, the unique or multiple Kurdish states will border us, provided we still do exist. The only real question is the demarcation of that border.... will it be the Arax or Haykakan Bar, or ......

      - Simultaneously, and somehow surprisingly, the stakes got upper since 888, and Russia's destiny and reshaping was mixed with this older project. And of course, that game does imply our destiny too, no matter how unwilling we might be regards it.

      - In all logic, we, as a Nation, must have been long ago focused on this period of 2015 (at least), in best shape, to try to play our very dangerous and daring partition, for OUR common best.... and no matter what blind whishfull thinkers may say, SS was and still is the worst captain ever we might have nightmared off, for this kind of challenge (put aside Dodi Gago and LTP, who are by far worse than the worse...)

      - Now, look what we do have, and who might be behind events:
      1- On our outside borders, the everyday war situation, to divert our attention, is at least clearly turkish made.
      2- On a permanent bases, Russia delivers more and more agressive arms to Baku, explicitly challenging its supposed reliability as a an ally, even for the most slaveminded russophiles among us....
      3 - Inside our own borders, a massacre is committed by a Russian serviceman, with all the psychological elements to strain our psyche, and strain the "russian-armenian brotherhood"... and seemingly, if we judge Russia behaves since the crime, Russia seems to be man orchestrating this. In all other variants first suspected to discharge Russia role, the Russians must have behaved differently AFTER the crime...
      4- On a larger geopolitical arena, Russia and Turkey(&Baku) try to play a new chapter of honeymoon, notoriously and systematically a nightmare for Armenian interests, since Tzarist times...
      5- Now at the end, on our internal front, it is total nonsense and "pre civil-war'' situation, literally out of the blue, just 2 months before April 24 , made by the acts of notoriously Russia controlled entities, that is SS and Dodi Gago clans....

      Could it be that this is part of the service Russia does to please the Turks???

    5. #65
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Կայացել է նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի եւ Գագիկ Ծառուկյանի հանդիպումը
      17.02.2015



      Քիչ առաջ Հայաստանի նախագահի նստավայրում կայացել է նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի եւ «Բարգավաճ Հայաստան» կուսակցության առաջնորդ Գագիկ Ծառուկյանի հանդիպումը։ Այդ մասին NEWS.am-ի թղթակցի հետ զրույցում հայտնեց ՀՅԴ խմբակցության քարտուղար Աղվան Վարդանյանը՝ նշելով, որ հանդիպումը կայացել է ՀՅԴաշնակցության նախաձեռնությամբ։

      Վարդանյանի խոսքով, վերջին օրերին իրենց կուսակցությունն արել է հնարավոր ամեն ինչ, որ երկիրը խուսափի ցնցումներից եւ բախումներից։ «Մենք արել ենք անհրաժեշտը։ Մեր խնդրանքով Հայաստան է ժամանել գործարար Սամվել Կարապետյանը, որը բոլոր ջանքերը գործադրել է իրավիճակը հարթելու համար»։

      Վարդանյանը նաեւ նշեց, որ առաջիկայում հայտնի կդառնան հանդիպման արդյունքները։

      Լուրեր Հայաստանից - NEWS.am

    6. #66
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Vrej1915 View Post
      Կայացել է նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի եւ Գագիկ Ծառուկյանի հանդիպումը
      17.02.2015



      Քիչ առաջ Հայաստանի նախագահի նստավայրում կայացել է նախագահ Սերժ Սարգսյանի եւ «Բարգավաճ Հայաստան» կուսակցության առաջնորդ Գագիկ Ծառուկյանի հանդիպումը։ Այդ մասին NEWS.am-ի թղթակցի հետ զրույցում հայտնեց ՀՅԴ խմբակցության քարտուղար Աղվան Վարդանյանը՝ նշելով, որ հանդիպումը կայացել է ՀՅԴաշնակցության նախաձեռնությամբ։

      Վարդանյանի խոսքով, վերջին օրերին իրենց կուսակցությունն արել է հնարավոր ամեն ինչ, որ երկիրը խուսափի ցնցումներից եւ բախումներից։ «Մենք արել ենք անհրաժեշտը։ Մեր խնդրանքով Հայաստան է ժամանել գործարար Սամվել Կարապետյանը, որը բոլոր ջանքերը գործադրել է իրավիճակը հարթելու համար»։

      Վարդանյանը նաեւ նշեց, որ առաջիկայում հայտնի կդառնան հանդիպման արդյունքները։

      Լուրեր Հայաստանից - NEWS.am
      and the criminal traitors reconcile ....
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

    7. #67
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    8. #68
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      likely just rumors....

      Newspaper: Seyran Ohanyan to run for president from Republican Party of Armenia in 2018
      Tatevik Shahunyan
      Wednesday, December 24, 10:02

      About a month ago, the second and the third presidents of Armenia, Robert Kocharyan and Serzh Sargsyan, held a private meeting. The spotlight of the meeting was the presidential election of 2018, Haykakan Zhamanak (Armenian Time) daily says with reference to reliable sources.



      The newspaper says during the meeting Sargsyan told Kocharyan that in 2018 Seyran Ohanyan, Defense Minister of Armenia, will run for president from the Republican Party of Armenia in 2018 no matter whether the constitutional reforms on the republic's transition to parliamentary regime are completed or not.



      According to the source, Kocharyan replied that Ohanyan's candidacy is actually acceptable to him. At the same time, Kocharyan failed to promise that he himself will not run for president in 2018.



      The thing is that Kocharyan is going to run for president in 2018 if his candidacy is supported by the Prosperous Armenia Party (PAP), Haykakan Zhamanak says. "But if the PAP advances its leader Gagik Tsarukyan's nominee, Kocharyan will support Ohanyan", says the newspaper.


      http://www.arminfo.am/index.cfm?obje...160EB7C0D21663
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

    9. #69
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Eddo211 View Post
      Maybe we need a military leader like Ohanian in charge.
      The problem is Armenia though are not due to not having military leaders. Yes Kocharian's and Sarsyan's service doesn't compare to Ohanyan's, but nonethless the problems are due lack of rule of law, and lack of having a independent judiciary system. Having said that, I think just having a president that is less corrupt and connected to business interests would be an improvement. However, he would still need a strong reform minded prime minister. At the moment though, he would be the only decent candidate out of the many potential animals interested in the position.
      Last edited by Mher; 02-17-2015 at 07:47 PM.
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

    10. #70
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      What a sorry state of affairs Armenia finds herself in now. We have a monarchy in the making and the opposition consists of two spies working for USA and a guy who was a lawmaker by name but has not participated in any government activities ever. If Serj's domestic policy was as good as his foreign policy I would not mind him being leader for life, but he has failed to deal with domestic issues in a effective manner. Gago is fairly popular in Armenia (atleast that is the feeling i had when I was there) but he has never looked nore acted like a national leader. Kocharian I think may be the guy to watch for. He has the connections and experience and may play the very role I had predicted he would when a while back he announced the possibility of his return. I think Armenia's politicians might be simply copying what is done in USA and Russia. They form two different parties and have different leaders to give the people an illusion of choice but in reality it is all a show meant to appease the masses while the elite continue their ways. Perhaps this is the attempt at sophistication I had mentioned in previous posts which was lacking in Armenian politics.
      Haykakan, what is your proof that Raffi is a "spy working for USA". please explain
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

    11. #71
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Prosperous Armenia MP decides to give up parliamentary seat


      YEREVAN. – Prosperous Armenia party deputy Melik Manukyan has filed a petition to give up his parliamentary seat.

      The MP has addressed parliament speaker Galust Sahakyan, spokesperson for the speaker Arsen Babayan told Armenian News-NEWS.am.

      Other two deputies from Prosperous Armenia party Aragats Akhoyan and Karo Karapetyan submitted applications on Monday to leave the party. They plan to continue their work in the parliament as independent MP s.

      http://news.am/eng/news/253076.html
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

    12. #72
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Mher View Post
      Haykakan, what is your proof that Raffi is a "spy working for USA". please explain
      Every time there is anything important going on either in our region or inside the country, Raffi says nothing, runs of to either England or USA, and then he comes back and says something. From this alone it is very clear that he is a puppet serving foreign interests but it does not end there. Talking to people here in USA who have deep political connections with the USA government, I have time and again been told that he is a part of USA foreign policy in Armenia and serves American interests-not Armenian interests. These same people who for decades swore that USA was the answer to Armenia's problems are singing a very different tune now and telling me that Russia is Armenia's only hope. Mind you that these are people who have every reason to be proamerican and have been just that until they to realized the dirty games played by the west and its antiarmenian policies. These are the facts of our present reality on which I base my opinion of Raffi on. There is also other circumstantial evidence where like the rest of the opposition groups he and his party have absolutely no answers to Armenia's many problems and are simply trying to get power rather then to fix any issues. The proof is very much there but most people either do not know what questions to ask to get the truth or they simply do not care enough.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    13. #73
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      Every time there is anything important going on either in our region or inside the country, Raffi says nothing, runs of to either England or USA, and then he comes back and says something. From this alone it is very clear that he is a puppet serving foreign interests but it does not end there. Talking to people here in USA who have deep political connections with the USA government, I have time and again been told that he is a part of USA foreign policy in Armenia and serves American interests-not Armenian interests. These same people who for decades swore that USA was the answer to Armenia's problems are singing a very different tune now and telling me that Russia is Armenia's only hope. Mind you that these are people who have every reason to be proamerican and have been just that until they to realized the dirty games played by the west and its antiarmenian policies. These are the facts of our present reality on which I base my opinion of Raffi on. There is also other circumstantial evidence where like the rest of the opposition groups he and his party have absolutely no answers to Armenia's many problems and are simply trying to get power rather then to fix any issues. The proof is very much there but most people either do not know what questions to ask to get the truth or they simply do not care enough.
      When were these instances? Can you provide exact examples with dates? And how is that proof that he is taking directions in the United States. Lol why would he feel the need to physically travel somewhere to take directions and come back lol? I think maybe you're trying really really hard to create some causation out of some very weak correlation to support your predetermined view

      And your evidence is people you can't name who you say are important who claim "he is a part of USA foreign policy in Armenia and serves American interests". How is that substantiated evidence? I can just claim I know people who say Dodig is a foreign agent for Venezuela. It would be exactly as valid as what you're saying-which is not very valid at all considering the lack of evidence

      There are dozens maybe hundreds of leaked cables from US officials, diplomats, representatives, discussing Raffi (and other Armenian politicians) when they assumed those emails would have remained confidential forever, and there is never any mention of such a thing. You think if you were right, maybe something would have come up somewhere? Moreover, in these emails he is often looked upon as an inferior choice for US interests compared to other political leaders in Armenia.


      "There is also other circumstantial evidence where like the rest of the opposition groups he and his party have absolutely no answers to Armenia's many problems and are simply trying to get power rather then to fix any issues"

      And lmaoo how is that proof of ANYTHING???!!!!! let alone proof that he's a US agent?



      "The proof is very much there but most people either do not know what questions to ask to get the truth or they simply do not care enough. "

      Yeah based on that reasoning, there is proof there for anything. Based on that reasoning creationism is supported by facts and evolutions is imaginary. Only if you look hard enough, and try to find almost nonexistent facts to support your predetermined view.

      Like I said, I think he's too idealistic and noncommittal to be president. However it has nothing to do with him being a foreign agent.
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

    14. #74
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Mher you are free to think whatever you like. I will not compromise my sources because I am afraid doing so could harm them. During the last presidential campaign Raffi made it very clear he is taking orders from others because during the whole fiasco he would leave for a few days then return with a new agenda and every time there was change it was the same thing again. I do not know who he talked to or what he talked about during these trips but it was common knowledge he was meeting with western agents. I am not the cia nor kgb so I do not have recordings nor youtube videos to share with you. The answers are there for those who can put facts together and draw inferences or you can just believe what the news tells you to believe..the choice is yours.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    15. #75
      Registered User Mher's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      Mher you are free to think whatever you like. I will not compromise my sources because I am afraid doing so could harm them. During the last presidential campaign Raffi made it very clear he is taking orders from others because during the whole fiasco he would leave for a few days then return with a new agenda and every time there was change it was the same thing again. I do not know who he talked to or what he talked about during these trips but it was common knowledge he was meeting with western agents. I am not the cia nor kgb so I do not have recordings nor youtube videos to share with you. The answers are there for those who can put facts together and draw inferences or you can just believe what the news tells you to believe..the choice is yours.
      "Raffi made it very clear he is taking orders from others because he would leave for a few days then return with a new agenda"
      So the fact that he said come back tomorrow and I'll tell you what we should do was not only proof that he was taking directions from someone above, but that the someone was America? I mean do you not see the absurdity of that assumption? How is that proof of anything? Not only are you taking the implausible leap from "he didn't decide on the spot" to "he was going to take directions", but then of course you jump to "he was taking those directions from the US"
      To most people, the more logical answer was that he was too indecisive to make a snap decision on the spot in front of the crowd (like he should have), and had to go home, and discuss it with his people.

      "but it was common knowledge he was meeting with western agents"
      Common knowledge to who? can you please explain and give me sources of people who say this is common knowledge. Because this is literally the first time I have heard this and I have discussed those events to death from every angle with a lot of different people

      "or you can just believe what the news tells you to believe"
      again what news? I assume you mean the US news? whose telling me these things. lol It's just basic interpretation of the facts in front of me. Nobody has to tell me anything for me not to take these implausible leaps of faith that have no justification or any basis in reality.


      You're entire assumption is a conspiracy theory for lack of better words. Can I foresee a situation where the US seeks out candidates with foreign policies that favor its interests, and does its best to support those candidates? Maybe, (to me this would be something any country might do) But there's a big BIG gap from that to he is a US agent planted there to do what's best for America, and not Armenia

      To me the guy is irrationally nationalistic and idealistic and on the two issues the US cares about the MOST: settlement of Karabakh & the Turkish protocols, he is the worst candidate of them all for US interests because of his strict Dashnak views. So in whose reality is this guy serving US interests?

      Is it because he is just not willing to serve every single last Russian interest? is that it? Is that what makes him a US spy in your eyes?
      <<եթե զենք էլ չլինի' ես քարերով կկրվեմ>>

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      By deniz in forum Armenian Politics
      Replies: 21
      Last Post: 11-12-2005, 01:55 PM

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