Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

To set the record straight.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • To set the record straight.

    The number --- 1.5 million --- that is referred to in the Armenian Genocide as the accepted number is completely false.
    That number was arrived at over much haggling as the --- minimum --- acceptable number by the main body of legitimate involved historians of the day.
    The true number for Armians alone is almost or exceeds three (3) times that number.
    The --- way --- these people were killed in there vast majority were murdered reaffirms what has been known for centuries --- the turks are heartless and cruel by nature.
    Those who occupy our ancient lands are the direct decendents.
    The word or sound --- turk --- brings heartlessness and lying to mind.
    Artashes

  • #2
    Re: To set the record straight.

    The above is a timely reminder that one should never assume that what Armenians say about the Armenian Genocide is accurate.
    Plenipotentiary meow!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: To set the record straight.

      Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      The above is a timely reminder that one should never assume that what Armenians say about the Armenian Genocide is accurate.
      Bell, cannot tell by your sentence if you are contesting my statement or agreeing with it?
      Might you clarify?
      Are you saying 1.5 million is murdered is about right or greatly reduced for politicle reasons?
      Artashes

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: To set the record straight.

        Originally posted by Artashes View Post
        Bell, cannot tell by your sentence if you are contesting my statement or agreeing with it?
        Might you clarify?
        Are you saying 1.5 million is murdered is about right or greatly reduced for politicle reasons?
        Artashes
        I'm saying that a lot of Armenians talk about being knowledgable on Armenian history while seemingly bypassing the time consuming requirement of actually researching into it. You cannot make claims like "4.5 million died" (if that is what you mean by "three times that number") without giving ANY justification or reasoning and then expect to be taken seriously. Don't you know that 4.5 million is far more than the total 1914 Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire and Russian Transcaucasia combined!

        I'd say that the most correct figure IS going to be in the range of 1.4 to 1.6 million, with maybe 1.8 million as the extreme top end (if those who died in the post-WW1 massacres in Cilicia are included, as well as those killed in what was to become Soviet Armenia and Azerbaijan). Beyond the obvious Turkish propaganda, the only "political" manipulations I see are the sometimes removal of the post-WW1 deaths in Cilicia from the total as well as the deaths in what would become Azerbaijan. It is arguable whether those who died in Armenia as a result of starvation or disease in the aftermath of WW1 should be included - I'd say that yes they should be, given that most of those dead had fled their homes to escape the genocidal massacres and so would not have died from disease or starvation if there had been no massacres.
        Plenipotentiary meow!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: To set the record straight.

          Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
          I'm saying that a lot of Armenians talk about being knowledgable on Armenian history while seemingly bypassing the time consuming requirement of actually researching into it. You cannot make claims like "4.5 million died" (if that is what you mean by "three times that number") without giving ANY justification or reasoning and then expect to be taken seriously. Don't you know that 4.5 million is far more than the total 1914 Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire and Russian Transcaucasia combined!

          I'd say that the most correct figure IS going to be in the range of 1.4 to 1.6 million, with maybe 1.8 million as the extreme top end (if those who died in the post-WW1 massacres in Cilicia are included, as well as those killed in what was to become Soviet Armenia and Azerbaijan). Beyond the obvious Turkish propaganda, the only "political" manipulations I see are the sometimes removal of the post-WW1 deaths in Cilicia from the total as well as the deaths in what would become Azerbaijan. It is arguable whether those who died in Armenia as a result of starvation or disease in the aftermath of WW1 should be included - I'd say that yes they should be, given that most of those dead had fled their homes to escape the genocidal massacres and so would not have died from disease or starvation if there had been no massacres.
          Well written response in my opine.
          Thanks for the lack --- rudeness.
          As I read it, your first complaint --- I by pass "time consuming research ---
          Bell, in all honestly , it is me that read all those freaking horror stories and statistics..... Ad Nosium.
          It is true the things I have researched (and been told by family members) has caused -------------------------------------- HATRED ----------------
          I am actually (most regrettably) not "making this up. Wish I was.
          I need to add up the two figures -- (Cilicia ,post WW1 + "died of starvation & disease after WW1 in Armenia)
          Am attempting to get(read) -- The jihad rampant in Persia -- by Rev. Robert M Labree --
          Reporting from Tabriz, 1915.
          Do you count that?
          Do you count --- ALL --- those who were sold, traded, given, or somehow suddenly found themselves --- without their entire family and they were now another -- nationality? Family? Slave?
          My modest study showed me the "rigors" required by the contesting paties --(truth vs. lies) left -- OUT -- vast numbers of "accurate but not verifiable" murders because of --- undue --- consideration.
          Also I do disagree with 4.5 million Armenians --- as --- greater than total Armenian pop.
          Will address that in next day or two , to see where discrepincy in figures is occurring.
          Bottom line is all my studies showed clearly an --- extreme --- undercounting by disallowing ligitimate statistics on MURDER because of politicle reasons.
          If the numbers are on hand I'd appreciate it.
          Artashes

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: To set the record straight.

            Even according to the records of the Armenian Church in Cilicia there were only 2.2 million Armenians in Ottoman territories in 1914. Therefore Bell in right. The total number of Armenians in the world likely didn't add up to 4.5 million.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: To set the record straight.

              Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
              I'm saying that a lot of Armenians talk about being knowledgable on Armenian history while seemingly bypassing the time consuming requirement of actually researching into it. You cannot make claims like "4.5 million died" (if that is what you mean by "three times that number") without giving ANY justification or reasoning and then expect to be taken seriously. Don't you know that 4.5 million is far more than the total 1914 Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire and Russian Transcaucasia combined!

              I'd say that the most correct figure IS going to be in the range of 1.4 to 1.6 million, with maybe 1.8 million as the extreme top end (if those who died in the post-WW1 massacres in Cilicia are included, as well as those killed in what was to become Soviet Armenia and Azerbaijan). Beyond the obvious Turkish propaganda, the only "political" manipulations I see are the sometimes removal of the post-WW1 deaths in Cilicia from the total as well as the deaths in what would become Azerbaijan. It is arguable whether those who died in Armenia as a result of starvation or disease in the aftermath of WW1 should be included - I'd say that yes they should be, given that most of those dead had fled their homes to escape the genocidal massacres and so would not have died from disease or starvation if there had been no massacres.
              Well written response in my opine.
              Thanks for the lack --- rudeness.
              As I read it, your first complaint --- I by pass "time consuming research ---
              Bell, in all honestly , it is me that read all those freaking horror stories and statistics..... Ad Nosium.
              It is true the things I have researched (and been told by family members) has caused -------------------------------------- HATRED ----------------
              I am actually (most regrettably) not "making this up. Wish I was.
              I need to add up the two figures -- (Cilicia ,post WW1 + "died of starvation & disease after WW1 in Armenia)
              Am attempting to get(read) -- The jihad rampant in Persia -- by Rev. Robert M Labree --
              Reporting from Tabriz, 1915.
              Do you count that?
              Do you count --- ALL --- those who were sold, traded, given, or somehow suddenly found themselves --- without their entire family and they were now another -- nationality? Family? Slave?
              My modest study showed me the "rigors" required by the contesting paties --(truth vs. lies) left -- OUT -- vast numbers of "accurate but not verifiable" murders because of --- undue --- consideration.
              Also I do disagree with 4.5 million Armenians --- as --- greater than total Armenian pop.
              Will address that in next day or two , to see where discrepincy in figures is occurring.
              Bottom line is all my studies showed clearly an --- extreme --- undercounting by disallowing ligitimate statistics on MURDER because of politicle reasons.
              If the numbers are on hand I'd appreciate it.
              Artashes

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: To set the record straight.

                Originally posted by Mher View Post
                Even according to the records of the Armenian Church in Cilicia there were only 2.2 million Armenians in Ottoman territories in 1914. Therefore Bell in right. The total number of Armenians in the world likely didn't add up to 4.5 million.
                My memory is starting to come back some.
                Both you and Bell are in agreement , 4.5 million Armenians is too great a number.
                All my politicly non motivated sources shows literally at minimum 2 - 3 million more, easily.
                Will look for the --- wide --- discrepincy.
                But, my memory is telling me the "contest" for the -- final -- DEATH toll was a well known(highly well known) -- contest -- fought with politicle bs and posturing.
                From that well known(world academia associated at that time) contest was --- I think where I'm getting my info , will research (sadness) again.
                Artashes

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: To set the record straight.

                  Originally posted by Artashes View Post
                  My memory is starting to come back some.
                  Both you and Bell are in agreement , 4.5 million Armenians is too great a number.
                  All my politicly non motivated sources shows literally at minimum 2 - 3 million more, easily.
                  Will look for the --- wide --- discrepincy.
                  But, my memory is telling me the "contest" for the -- final -- DEATH toll was a well known(highly well known) -- contest -- fought with politicle bs and posturing.
                  From that well known(world academia associated at that time) contest was --- I think where I'm getting my info , will research (sadness) again.
                  Artashes
                  Even a quick closer look shows the large disparity.
                  If you look closer at the count that is given today and ask --- what "formula" was used to arrive at that figure (census - Arm), and then --- ask --- was this formula and statistics accurate --- ?
                  Here is what I'm seeing ---
                  ---- closer study of ottoman census numbers --- as one (1) example --- from 1894 - 1905, shows values of turkish motives (and) not true values.
                  It -- is -- a well known fact that Armenians purposely undercounted, especially in times of increased barbarity.
                  It is also well known that Armwnians were -- forced -- to overstate turk pop., while understate Armenian population.
                  Also, many Armenians "slipped under the wire" by claiming to be Muslim. Look to sudden dramatic increases of Muslim pop., as discrimination and threat of brutality increase. That "sudden" increase is both stark and dramatic.
                  The total figure fore"auttoman" easily can be twice your figure.
                  Are you both telling me you (a) never heard of these accusations as to the woeful undercounting
                  Or
                  (b) you don't believe they have merit ?
                  We were and are the indigenous people, there were actually a great many of us.
                  They as well as others have been murdering us for many centuries.
                  Artashes

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: To set the record straight.

                    Hmmm ... this is strange because according to my estimates, the number of Armenians that were killed in the Genocide was closer to 14 million.
                    this post = teh win.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X