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    Thread: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

    1. #16
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Again Testing Armenia's Loyalty, Russia Offers More Tanks To Azerbaijan
      May 25, 2014 , by Joshua Kucera



      Russia is offering Azerbaijan another 100 tanks, on top of 100 that it has bought over the last three years, in a move that will surely have Armenians asking what more they need to do to prove their loyalty to Moscow.

      Speaking at Kazakhstan's KADEX defense expo in Astana, Konstantin Biryulin, the deputy director of Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation told Russian news agency ITAR-TASS that Azerbaijan's order of 100 T-90S tanks had been completed a month ago. And he added that Azerbaijan has an "option" to buy another 100, but that the option hasn't yet been exercised.

      News last summer that Russia completed a $1 billion arms deal with Azerbaijan (which included those 100 tanks) prompted outrage in Yerevan. Armenia has been a loyal ally of Russia, and so selling such a large number of weapons to its enemy seemed like a betrayal.

      But that was when Armenia was flirting with signing an Association Agreement with the European Union. Not long after the arms deal was announced, Armenia announced that it had changed its mind about the EU and would instead be joining the Russia-led Customs Union. Now Armenia is scheduled to formally join the Customs Union in June. So another big arms sale to Azerbaijan would seem like an even bigger betrayal.

      Writes RFE/RL: "Armenia’s Defense Ministry on Friday refused to comment on Moscow’s apparent readiness to sell more tanks to Baku. Biryulin’s revelation is certain to spark fresh anti-Russian statements by Armenian opposition groups and the media."

    2. #17
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Russian Tank Manufacturer ‘Clarifies’ Shipments To Azerbaijan





      ՏԵՔՍՏԻ ՉԱՓԸ
      Հրապարակված է՝ 27.05.2014

      A Russian defense company reportedly clarified on Tuesday that it has not yet completed the delivery of 100 battle tanks to Azerbaijan stemming from a Russian-Azerbaijani contract signed in 2012.

      The Azerbaijani news agency APA cited unnamed representatives of the state-own Uralvagonzavod enterprise as saying that shipments of the advanced T-90 tanks began last year and are continuing “according to schedule.” They said the next batch of this military hardware will reach Azerbaijan in August.

      “We are not talking about an additional order,” one of them said. “Right now we are carrying out the outstanding order.”

      Konstantin Biryulin, the deputy head of a Russian government agency overseeing arms deals with foreign states, told the Itar-Tass news agency on Friday that the Russian side completed the tank order last month. He said the 2011 contract entitles Baku to buying 100 more T-90s.

      According to the Uralvagonzavod source quoted by APA, the two sides are currently negotiating on the possibility of more tank sales. “At the moment Azerbaijan is Uralvagonzavod’s biggest client,” added the source.

      Citing an unnamed Russian official dealing with arms exports, the Moscow daily “Kommersant” on Monday confirmed Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev’s August 2013 claims that the total volume of Russian-Azerbaijani defense contracts signed since 2010 is worth around $4 billion. The official said that the figure could rise to $5 billion by the end of this year.

      The Russian weapons supplied to Azerbaijan include not only tanks but also sophisticated air-defense and artillery systems and attack helicopters.

    3. #18
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Արսեն Ավակովի ծանր հարվածը Մոսկվային

      ԻԳՈՐ ՄՈՒՐԱԴՅԱՆ, Քաղաքագետ
      Երկուշաբթի, 26 Մայիսի 2014,

      Ռուսական քարոզչությունը հանկարծ հիշել է հայերի, հայերի ցեղասպանության, ձեռքի հետ էլ Բաքվի հայերի մասին, դատողություններ անելով Ուկրաինայի ներքին գործերի նախարար Արսեն Ավակովի մասին, հայերին կոչ անելով ազդել նրա վրա: Ընդ որում, դա արվում է այնպիսի տոնով, որ հայերը պարզապես պարտավոր են դա անել, քանի որ նույնիսկ անհատական մակարդակում էլ հայերը ռուսների վասալն են:

      Ավակովը ներկայում գործնականում ոչ միայն ներքին գործերի նախարարն է, այլեւ ուկրաինական զորքերի հրամանատարը: Բայց նա ոչ միայն հայ է, այլեւ ղարաբաղցի հայ եւ շատ լավ հիշում է, որ 1991 եւ 1992 թվականներին ռուսները պատժիչ արշավ են իրականացրել Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի հայ բնակչության դեմ: Այն ժամանակ սպանվեց 1000-ից ավելի հայ եւ ոչնչացվեց 40 բնակավայր:
      Ի դեպ, մոտենում է ռուսական այդ ագրեսիայի 22-ամյակը՝ հունիսի 13-ին: Հնարավոր է, Ավակովը, պաշտպանելով Ուկրաինան, չի մոռացել այդ իրադարձությունները եւ գիտե, որ Ռուսաստանը ժամանակակից զենքով հագեցրել է Ադրբեջանին: Որքա՞ն է Ռուսաստանն աշխատել զենք մատակարարելու վրա, 4 միլիա՞րդ: Իսկ որքա՞ն է կորցրել Ուկրաինայում:
      Դա լիովին օրինաչափ է, քանի որ ավելի ու ավելի շատ հայեր են պատրաստ եւ իրականացնում են հակա-ռուսական գործունեություն: Հաջորդ փուլում հայերի կազմակերպված հակա-ռուսական աշխատանքն է: Մեծացել է հայերի հակա-ռուսական սերունդ: Սակայն, երբեմն «մեկ հոգին էլ է ռազմի դաշտում զինվոր». Լիովին արդյունավետ սկզբունք է:
      - See more at: http://www.lragir.am/index/arm/0/pol....7WEON9HC.dpuf

    4. #19
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      The usual crap from the usual crappy source..I guess Avakov conveniently forgot that Ukrain helped the Azeris or that right now is helping the Azeris or that it along with Georgia and azergayjan are the western axis working to isolate Armenia.. as usual you can count on Vrej and Lragir to omit and twist the truth so that people get the exact opposite impression of what is really going on. I am sure Vrej is very proud of himself and his crappy source of disinformation.

      Quote Originally Posted by Vrej1915 View Post
      Արսեն Ավակովի ծանր հարվածը Մոսկվային

      ԻԳՈՐ ՄՈՒՐԱԴՅԱՆ, Քաղաքագետ
      Երկուշաբթի, 26 Մայիսի 2014,

      Ռուսական քարոզչությունը հանկարծ հիշել է հայերի, հայերի ցեղասպանության, ձեռքի հետ էլ Բաքվի հայերի մասին, դատողություններ անելով Ուկրաինայի ներքին գործերի նախարար Արսեն Ավակովի մասին, հայերին կոչ անելով ազդել նրա վրա: Ընդ որում, դա արվում է այնպիսի տոնով, որ հայերը պարզապես պարտավոր են դա անել, քանի որ նույնիսկ անհատական մակարդակում էլ հայերը ռուսների վասալն են:

      Ավակովը ներկայում գործնականում ոչ միայն ներքին գործերի նախարարն է, այլեւ ուկրաինական զորքերի հրամանատարը: Բայց նա ոչ միայն հայ է, այլեւ ղարաբաղցի հայ եւ շատ լավ հիշում է, որ 1991 եւ 1992 թվականներին ռուսները պատժիչ արշավ են իրականացրել Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի հայ բնակչության դեմ: Այն ժամանակ սպանվեց 1000-ից ավելի հայ եւ ոչնչացվեց 40 բնակավայր:
      Ի դեպ, մոտենում է ռուսական այդ ագրեսիայի 22-ամյակը՝ հունիսի 13-ին: Հնարավոր է, Ավակովը, պաշտպանելով Ուկրաինան, չի մոռացել այդ իրադարձությունները եւ գիտե, որ Ռուսաստանը ժամանակակից զենքով հագեցրել է Ադրբեջանին: Որքա՞ն է Ռուսաստանն աշխատել զենք մատակարարելու վրա, 4 միլիա՞րդ: Իսկ որքա՞ն է կորցրել Ուկրաինայում:
      Դա լիովին օրինաչափ է, քանի որ ավելի ու ավելի շատ հայեր են պատրաստ եւ իրականացնում են հակա-ռուսական գործունեություն: Հաջորդ փուլում հայերի կազմակերպված հակա-ռուսական աշխատանքն է: Մեծացել է հայերի հակա-ռուսական սերունդ: Սակայն, երբեմն «մեկ հոգին էլ է ռազմի դաշտում զինվոր». Լիովին արդյունավետ սկզբունք է:
      - See more at: http://www.lragir.am/index/arm/0/pol....7WEON9HC.dpuf
      Hayastan or Bust.

    5. #20
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Quote Originally Posted by Vrej1915 View Post
      Ավակովը ներկայում գործնականում ոչ միայն ներքին գործերի նախարարն է, այլեւ ուկրաինական զորքերի հրամանատարը: Բայց նա ոչ միայն հայ է, այլեւ ղարաբաղցի հայ եւ շատ լավ հիշում է, որ 1991 եւ 1992 թվականներին ռուսները պատժիչ արշավ են իրականացրել Լեռնային Ղարաբաղի հայ բնակչության դեմ: Այն ժամանակ սպանվեց 1000-ից ավելի հայ եւ ոչնչացվեց 40 բնակավայր:
      You forgot to add that NATO and the EU countries stayed silent during these operations (and during the 1988-1990 pogroms and the 1955 pogrom in Istanbul...)

    6. #21
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      The usual crap from the usual crappy source..I guess Avakov conveniently forgot that Ukrain helped the Azeris or that right now is helping the Azeris or that it along with Georgia and azergayjan are the western axis working to isolate Armenia.. as usual you can count on Vrej and Lragir to omit and twist the truth so that people get the exact opposite impression of what is really going on. I am sure Vrej is very proud of himself and his crappy source of disinformation.
      We agreed to disagree.
      No point in discussing with you.
      So be kind, do not mention me, pass your way, or counter the content.
      Concerning the container, should I remind you the thread link?

    7. #22
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      ՌԴ դեսպան «Վոլինկա». Ոչ մի անձնական բան, պարզապես՝ բիզնես
      Lragir.am
      Չորեքշաբթի, 28 Մայիսի 2014,

      Սարդարապատի հուշահամալիրում լրագրողների հետ զրույցում Հայաստանում ՌԴ դեսպան Իվան Վոլինկինը հայտարարել է, որ Ադրբեջանին ՌԴ կողմից զենք վաճառելը զուտ կոմերցիոն գործարք է, տեղեկացնում է News.am-ը:
      «Դա կոմերցիոն հարց է, այստեղ քաղաքականություն չկա, եւ պետք չէ այս հարցերի վրա կանգ առնել, ես այստեղ որեւէ կրիմինալ չեմ տեսնում, սարսափելի ոչինչ չկա»,-ասել է Վոլինկինը:
      - See more at: http://www.lragir.am/index/arm/0/pol....t4HJevxV.dpuf

    8. #23
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      How about we agree to pay you double what the CIA is paying you so you can stop disinformation campaign? I bet we could do that just with the forum members here.
      Quote Originally Posted by Vrej1915 View Post
      We agreed to disagree.
      No point in discussing with you.
      So be kind, do not mention me, pass your way, or counter the content.
      Concerning the container, should I remind you the thread link?
      Hayastan or Bust.

    9. #24
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      How about we agree to pay you double what the CIA is paying you so you can stop disinformation campaign? I bet we could do that just with the forum members here.
      Andaghant FSB achkhadagtzitz sranitz avel tchi bidi el sbassel .....

    10. #25
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Ivan Volynkin: "It Was Simply a Commercial Transaction; I See Nothing Criminal Here"
      Tigranuhi Martirosyan
      http://hetq.am/eng/news/54858/ivan-v...inal-here.html


      May 28, 2014
      Russian Ambassador to Armenia Ivan Volynkin see nothing preposterous or criminal in Russia's move to sell arms to Azerbaijan.

      Recall, Armenia's strategic partner Russia continues to equip rival Azerbaijan. After the incident on the night of May 21 on the line of contact between Karabakh and Azerbaijan armed forces, Azerbaijan suffered three casualties. The following day, news media reported that Russia supplied Baku with 100 T-90C tanks.

      In conversation with Hetq and responding to the question whether Armenia's friend Russia is acting appropriately by again selling tanks to Azerbaijan, Ambassador Volynkin said: "This is a commercial issue — there are no politics here. And attention should not be drawn to these issues. Thus… I don't see [anything] criminal here; nothing dangerous is happening; it was simply a commercial transaction. We are tied also to Armenia through military equipment relations; there are arms sales also in this case, so there is nothing absurd."

      To Hetq's comment that Russia does not sell as much arms to Armenia as it does to Azerbaijan, the ambassador disagreed, saying: "Let's not talk about the volumes. I can only say that the amount is sufficient and good."

    11. #26
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Russia's Arms Sale to Azerbaijan Doesn't Shadow Armenia's Partnership with Russia, Assures Deputy Foreign Minister
      Tigranuhi Martirosyan

      May 29, 2014


      Responding to Hetq's questions is Armenia's Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Manasaryan.

      RA President Serzh Sargsyan extended an invitation to Turkey's president to participate in the 100th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. If he agrees, what will that visit provide?

      It will develop the process. I consider it very positive; we are waiting for the answer.

      Will there be an answer?

      I can't say.

      The RA Ministry of Foreign Affairs repeatedly speaks of friendly relations between Armenia and Russia, but on Republic Day, the president of the Russian Federation congratulated only Azerbaijan. What does this mean?

      We shouldn't draw conclusions from whether there was a congratulation or not that Russia is not our strategic partner. It's not right…

      What about that our strategic partner is selling arms to Azerbaijan — we shouldn't draw conclusions from that?

      The process of arms sale was always there, and one of Russia's officials said I can't welcome that, but at the same time it's a process that's being carried out.

      Is Armenia taking any steps for Russia to discontinue selling arms to Azerbaijan?

      Steps are being taken: there are international agreements according to which the amount of arms is fixed and so on. A lot of work is and will be carried out in this direction, so that all remain within the framework of these agreements.

      Does Russia remain within the framework of these agreements?

      We have to work…

      You mean, it doesn't, if you have to work [toward that end]. What steps are you taking for it to remain [within the framework of these agreements]?

      I'm not talking about Russia. I'm talking about the number of arms.

      We're talking specifically about Russia because it is Russia that every time sells arms to Azerbaijan.

      Why are you talking only about Russia? Have you forgotten Israel?

      Because Russia is our strategic partner, not Israel.

      You know what, we shouldn't mix up these formats. Russia sells arms to a second, third country, including a country you know quite well, with which we do not have friendly relations, and we should not conclude from that that our relations with Russia have waned, that the strategic partnership isn't working, and so on and so forth. They are parallel processes: we shouldn't look at all this in a simple way.

      So what should we conclude, Mr. Deputy Minister?

      Nothing… [you can] conclude that life continues.


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      Comments (1)
      1. Վարազ Սյունի (Ամստերդամ)20:46 - 29 May, 2014
      Ո՞նց կարող է (ՀԱՊԿ-ի համանդամ) քո «ռազմավարական» գործընկերը Ադրբեջանին մլրդ.-ավոր դոլարների ժամանակակից-հարձակողական զենք վաճառել ու դա «չի ստվերու՞մ» հայ-ռուսական հարաբերությունները: Այդ նույն Ադրբեջանի նախագահը չէ՞,որ ՀՐԱՊԱՐԱԿԱՎ հայտարարում է,որ՝ պիտի վերացնի Հայաստանը քարտեզի երեսից:Բա էլ Ի՞ՆՉԸ պիտի ստվերի հայ-ռուսական հարաբերությունները . որ ռուսաստանը ատոմային ռունբ նետի՞ Հայաստանի վրա:

    12. #27
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Quote Originally Posted by Vrej1915 View Post
      What about that our strategic partner is selling arms to Azerbaijan — we shouldn't draw conclusions from that?
      The conclusion we have to draw is that Russia looks at the world differently to Armenia, and its main concern appears to be to stop NATO taking over countries on its borders. Maybe Russia sees her function as guaranteeing the Armenia-Turkey border and its position on Azerbaijan from the beginning was less clear. Azerbaijan has important influence in Russia too - Lukoil's head is Azerbaijani
      Our "allies" during World War I signed the Treaty of Lausanne with Turkey in 1923 fixing today's borders of Turkey, that did not even mention the Armenian genocide. What was our conclusion from that?
      Last edited by lampron; 05-30-2014 at 12:44 AM.

    13. #28
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      Quote Originally Posted by lampron View Post
      The conclusion we have to draw is that Russia looks at the world differently to Armenia, and its main concern appears to be to stop NATO taking over countries on its borders. Maybe Russia sees her function as guaranteeing the Armenia-Turkey border and its position on Azerbaijan from the beginning was less clear. Azerbaijan has important influence in Russia too - Lukoil's head is Azerbaijani
      Our "allies" during World War I signed the Treaty of Lausanne with Turkey in 1923 fixing today's borders of Turkey, that did not even mention the Armenian genocide. What was our conclusion from that?
      My Dear,
      You seem to have a predilection to partial history.
      Before Lausanne, there was Brest Litovsk.
      Who signed it?
      Who did arm Kemal, with the gold he did not have, when his people was starving? Who did sent loads of arms by rail, via Alekpol?
      Who did foment internal dissent, whith chakals like Mikoyan, in full complicity with the Turks, invading the country on two fronts....??

      Your name is Lampron.
      Lampron was selled by the French, you forgot to mention....

      Before expecting anybody else defend our interest, we should begin to do it ourselves first.
      In that way, N1 step should be to stop defending Russia`s policies, costing the lives of our boys, against all logic.
      Let the Russians do that.
      Do you know any other country, who behaves like us?

    14. #29
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      I wonder if anything besides "Russia wants to kill Armenia" ever crosses the ever shrinking mind of Vrej. Ok so lets say Russia stops selling azeris arms so now what? You think they will not buy arms elsewhere? Instead of USA or Israel taking the money Russia takes it instead and uses some of that money in arming us. The Russian weapons can be countered since we and Russia know their capabilities and we have the weapons to counter them (which we got from Russia for free or at a fraction of the cost the azeris pay). As usual people with a fixation on hate get tunnel vission and miss the important things happening around them because all they can possibly see is what they want to see. Does anyone understand or talk about what is going on with Iran?? No of course not because vissions of blowing up matrushkas is all some people focus on. The shift of US policy towards Iran is a killer for us but the sale of Russian weapons to azeris is niether news nor that important yet no one talks of the first and some choose to obsess over the later.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    15. #30
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      Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

      That's why I say, anybody that bases their political position against one or another factors only, cannot represent our interest overall. No matter how much valid their discussion of history(which again takes only part that suits them) their political capital remains an empty or useless value for Armenia. No matter how much or how strong points they bring about evil Russia, someone can bring equal evidence against west or anybody. Now what? Is it enough to deside our future? I think not. Even the lengthy essays above from lragir about Russia's hand in Azerbaijan's problems with US is a shallow self repeating waste because it misses most important factors or questions. Russia influences Baku. Ok . What about US? Russia is doing it for oil, control. Ok, what about US? Aliev and Putin have secret agreements. What about US and Aliev? Russia will sell Artsakh to Baku, why? Because it did it before. So? Why? Was it the only reason? How about other factors? Why did it sell before? Please don't give me all those black and white reasons. What about US's latest 6 points which appearently were there from 15 years ago? Isn't it selling Artsakh too? Did Russia advertise openly similar points that you know? Nazarbayev tells that Armenia should enter union without Artsakh, like it did all the other international agreements. Ok, not good, but why weren't you talking then? Does EU want to sign association agreement with us including Artsakh? Why are you silent about that? Does EU hold US position on 6 points? Certainly yes right? because US pretty much controls EU policies. Then why are you silent about that? Russia bad, Russia bad, Russia bad, Russia bad(it's so easy to throw Armenian government in with Russia and kill 2 rabbits). Ok who's good? Who and why? Stick to that and you'll look more respectfull. "Armenia should have demanded this or that from Russia, rejected this or that". Why don't you look at the whole thing and talk about? Stop pushing us without telling why for a definite end result and not a reaction for your points.
      Last edited by Hakob; 05-30-2014 at 12:01 PM.

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