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The first time the following essay saw light within this forum, it got shut down after a bunch of Turks decided to cause trouble. I want to revive this essay with the intent to discuss, hopefully without Turkic intrusion, the futility of discussing the Armenian Genocide with Turks. I hope we can keep things civil this time around.
Armenian
To all "Hai Dat" champions and Armenian Turk lovers
Discussions about the Armenian Genocide with Turks are senseless exercises in futility. Such debates, more often than not, degenerate to the point that it only serves to undermine the national ideology and cohesiveness of us Armenians. Nevertheless, the fundamental answer of all self-respecting Armenians to every single Turkic inquiry regarding Turko-Armenian relations is a simple one: There was a historic crime perpetrated by Turks against the Armenian people that yet needs to be punished.
Since some of you here seem capable of varying degrees of rational thought, you should realize that all crimes, regardless of severity, needs to get punished accordingly. That is how the universal order works, that is how rational works that is how human behavior works. Through my experiences, I have noticed that there are two fundamental types of Turks regarding their ideological approach to the Armenian Genocide. The first type (most probably the majority): Is very satisfied with what happened to the Armenians during the First World War and, moreover, would not hesitate one bit at attempting it again (as we have seen on countless occasions during the past fifteen years). The other type (who is subservient to the first type): Just wants to "whitewash" and make "excuses" for what happened back then and wants us to move "forward."
I far as I am concerned, its simple folks: We move forward by punishing, sooner or later, the guilty nation that committed the barbaric crime - and this cannot happen by trying to "reconcile" with those who still wish us dead. Speak to me about "reconciliation" with Turks when the Turkish state is reduced to rubble - then and only then will I even consider reconciliation with a Turk. As I keep repeating: "well meaning" Turks need to preach to their primitive brethren - NOT US. I, personally, do not want engage in futile practices such as "explaining" and "convincing" anything to any moron that does not know the obvious. The bottom line is: just a few decades ago there was a large Armenian population living within its aboriginal lands and, today - there are none.
Therefore, I do not want to engage in verbal gymnastics by discussing "why did it happen," "how did it happen," "what was the exact number of dead," "who was responsible," "how do we move forward..." Whether Turks come within Armenian forums to apologize "sincerely," or come here because they are 'told' to do so - does not matter within the larger context. For that matter, some of self-defeating rhetoric of the self-hating Armenian filth that these Turks converse with do not matter either. There have been self-hating Armenians throughout our long and bloody history - during the Ottoman years they were known as the Sultan's lapdogs.
Nevertheless, in order to emphasize and highlight the utter pointlessness, futility and counter-productiveness of a debate with Turks regarding the Armenian Genocide, I have written the following 'dialogue,' which in essence, is a typical progression of a rhetorical discussion a typical Armenian will potentially have with a typical Turk. I have "projected" this dialogue based on numerous discussions and debates I have been personally engaged in, or been exposed to previously. Therefore, with the following I am confident that I will successfully highlight the pointlessness of discussing the Armenian Genocide with Turks.
Turks are going to start by asking: What is the problem with you people regarding us Turks?
Armenians are going to say: Turks persecuted their loyal Armenians to the point of extinction within Anatolia.
Turks are going to reply: No way, your people had a great life living under the progressive Ottoman Turks.
Armenians are going to respond: There was a systematic genocide of the Armenian population of Anatolia and Cilicia by the Turkish authorities during the First World War.
Turks are going to reply: There was a major war and many people died on both sides. Turks suffered just as much as Armenians. So please, lets move ahead in our lives. Besides which, that was so long ago.
Armenians are going to respond: No. No. No. You are not being fair nor honest, a lot more Armenians died. It was absolutely horrible what happened to the Armenians, my grandparents still talk about it to this day.
Turks are going to reply: Well, if Turks overreacted at the time, it was because you Armenians were helping the Russians and stabbing us, benevolent Turks, in the back.
Armenians are going to respond: Not all Armenians were helping the Russians, only a few revolutionaries who were justifiably seeking independence. Why did Turks kill or deport the entire Armenian population of Anatolia and Cilicia?
Turks are going to reply: Well, you know what, I was not there. I don’t know what exactly happened. In any case, please allow me to say - I am very sorry that all that stuff happened to you people. I am really, really sorry, but we Turks are different now. Times are different now, let move ahead in our lives, it will benefit us all.
Armenians are going to respond: Yes, lets move ahead, but, it is essential that your government officially apologizes and begins to implement friendly policies toward the Armenian nation. Also, why is your government openly helping the Azeris against us? That problem should have nothing to do with our relations with Turkey.
Turks are going to reply: As far as the Nagorno Karabagh issue is concerned, we support the territorial integrity of all nations. Clearly, Armenian are the aggressors there. However, I do not want to talk about that problem. Lets get back to our issue. Turks will not officially apologize because they are afraid of land and money compensations. You have to understand that Turkey is not a rich nation.
At this point, some Armenian low-lives are going to reply: Very well, but please, even if its some kind of a token recognition and compensation, it needs to be made in order to appease the masses who are still suffering from a posttraumatic condition brought upon by the Genocide.
And at this point, Turks will get encouraged by the Armenian response and say: My government has similar problem with the Kurds and the Greek, thus, no such compensation can be acceptable for us Turks. Please people, accept our apologies and lets move a head in life, we don't have another choice.
The Armenian low-lives are going to respond: Well, ok, as long as we can be "good neighbors" and have no more problems, we will accept your apology and we'll live happily ever after.
And at this point, Armenians like me are going to tell Turks: Go to hell, you and your Azeri brothers, we will not rest until your nation is destroyed. After what happened between our nations, Turks and Armenians can never live side by side. Besides which, Armenians and Turks never have lived side by side with Turks. What's more, as long as the Turkish government holds our sacred lands, as long as the Turkish government supports our enemies, as long as the blood of our ancestors are not avenged somehow -- there cannot even be any discussions regarding 'coexistence' between Turks and Armenians.
Despite the aforementioned futility in dealing with such types of Turks, we have morons within the Armenian community that entertain them: In my opinion, these Armenians are the sad off-springs of cowards and peasants. I have even heard absurd talk by these so-called Armenians about the "closeness" of Armenian and Turkic cultures and centuries of the "happy-go-lucky" existence of us Armenians within the Ottoman Empire. I mean how stupid, how idiotic! The centuries of Turkic rule reduced Asia Minor, the epicenter of western civilization and Christendom, into and bloody Turkic/Islamic cesspool. And "that" is supposed to be our centuries of "happy" coexistence with Turks?!?!?! Nevertheless, even after centuries of Turkic rule, we Armenians are still "vastly" different from the Turk - culturally, socially and ethically. Anyone that claims otherwise is either a certified idiot or a registered pornik.
As a concerned Armenian: I do not want the government of Turkey to "ever" recognize the Armenian genocide. If it does so, I am confident that the entire Armenian population of the Diaspora will disappear into the pages of history within two or three generations. Unfortunately, for most of our brethren the "Hai Dat" is the only "psychological anchor" they have that maintains their Armenian identity. Moreover, I do not want the Turkish government to "ever" end its trade embargo against the Republic of Armenia. the Republic of Armenia needs to desperately emphasize trade and cooperation with Iran and Russia - not Turkey. Besides which, we Armenians really don't need the garbage produced within Turkey for the betterment of Armenia's economy. Most sane economists within Armenia understand this. Opening Armenia's borders with Turkey can only benefit the Turkish nation and a few traveling porniks within Armenia economically and Washington and Tel Aviv, antagonists of Yerevan, strategically. Furthermore, I want the Turkish government to continue supporting Anti-Armenian terrorist nations such as Azerbaijan, Israel, Georgia and Chechnya - this is the only way to convince all Armenians that our nation's best interests are served by our nation's alliances with the Russian Federation and the Islmic Republic of Iran.
There needs to be absolutely no talk about "coexistence" and/or "reconciliation" with Turks - it is absurd: Besides the obvious fact that Turkey, unlike Armenia, is a relatively primitive nation with an Islamic Turkic heritage and a bloody past, Turkey has serious geo-political problems with virtually everyone of it's neighbors. Turkey has serious territorial disputes with Armenians, Greeks, Cypriots, Iraqis, Iranians and Syrians. Most importantly, however, is the fact that the Turkish state has a very terminal "internal" problem with its Kurdish population that, in essence, is a cancer that will eventually destroy it. Besides which, Armenians and Turks are drastically different - socially, culturally, morally and genetically. Besides which, there can be no talk of our coexistence with Turks as long as our sacred lands are occupied by barbarians. There can be no talk of coexistence as long as the blood of our countless forefathers have not been avenged.
Thus, in final analysis: Sooner or later, the crimes of the Turkish nation against the Armenian people will get punished. Just in case there are any Turks who are hopeful that they will succeed in fooling certain self-hating Armenian 'xxxxxs' into thinking that the modern Turk is progressive and western oriented, they should also realize that it is Armenians who more-or-less portray the attitude that 'I' have conveyed here are the ones who essentially end up making political policy and implementing them - not the Sultan's lapdogs.
Armenian
To all "Hai Dat" champions and Armenian Turk lovers
Discussions about the Armenian Genocide with Turks are senseless exercises in futility. Such debates, more often than not, degenerate to the point that it only serves to undermine the national ideology and cohesiveness of us Armenians. Nevertheless, the fundamental answer of all self-respecting Armenians to every single Turkic inquiry regarding Turko-Armenian relations is a simple one: There was a historic crime perpetrated by Turks against the Armenian people that yet needs to be punished.
Since some of you here seem capable of varying degrees of rational thought, you should realize that all crimes, regardless of severity, needs to get punished accordingly. That is how the universal order works, that is how rational works that is how human behavior works. Through my experiences, I have noticed that there are two fundamental types of Turks regarding their ideological approach to the Armenian Genocide. The first type (most probably the majority): Is very satisfied with what happened to the Armenians during the First World War and, moreover, would not hesitate one bit at attempting it again (as we have seen on countless occasions during the past fifteen years). The other type (who is subservient to the first type): Just wants to "whitewash" and make "excuses" for what happened back then and wants us to move "forward."
I far as I am concerned, its simple folks: We move forward by punishing, sooner or later, the guilty nation that committed the barbaric crime - and this cannot happen by trying to "reconcile" with those who still wish us dead. Speak to me about "reconciliation" with Turks when the Turkish state is reduced to rubble - then and only then will I even consider reconciliation with a Turk. As I keep repeating: "well meaning" Turks need to preach to their primitive brethren - NOT US. I, personally, do not want engage in futile practices such as "explaining" and "convincing" anything to any moron that does not know the obvious. The bottom line is: just a few decades ago there was a large Armenian population living within its aboriginal lands and, today - there are none.
Therefore, I do not want to engage in verbal gymnastics by discussing "why did it happen," "how did it happen," "what was the exact number of dead," "who was responsible," "how do we move forward..." Whether Turks come within Armenian forums to apologize "sincerely," or come here because they are 'told' to do so - does not matter within the larger context. For that matter, some of self-defeating rhetoric of the self-hating Armenian filth that these Turks converse with do not matter either. There have been self-hating Armenians throughout our long and bloody history - during the Ottoman years they were known as the Sultan's lapdogs.
Nevertheless, in order to emphasize and highlight the utter pointlessness, futility and counter-productiveness of a debate with Turks regarding the Armenian Genocide, I have written the following 'dialogue,' which in essence, is a typical progression of a rhetorical discussion a typical Armenian will potentially have with a typical Turk. I have "projected" this dialogue based on numerous discussions and debates I have been personally engaged in, or been exposed to previously. Therefore, with the following I am confident that I will successfully highlight the pointlessness of discussing the Armenian Genocide with Turks.
Turks are going to start by asking: What is the problem with you people regarding us Turks?
Armenians are going to say: Turks persecuted their loyal Armenians to the point of extinction within Anatolia.
Turks are going to reply: No way, your people had a great life living under the progressive Ottoman Turks.
Armenians are going to respond: There was a systematic genocide of the Armenian population of Anatolia and Cilicia by the Turkish authorities during the First World War.
Turks are going to reply: There was a major war and many people died on both sides. Turks suffered just as much as Armenians. So please, lets move ahead in our lives. Besides which, that was so long ago.
Armenians are going to respond: No. No. No. You are not being fair nor honest, a lot more Armenians died. It was absolutely horrible what happened to the Armenians, my grandparents still talk about it to this day.
Turks are going to reply: Well, if Turks overreacted at the time, it was because you Armenians were helping the Russians and stabbing us, benevolent Turks, in the back.
Armenians are going to respond: Not all Armenians were helping the Russians, only a few revolutionaries who were justifiably seeking independence. Why did Turks kill or deport the entire Armenian population of Anatolia and Cilicia?
Turks are going to reply: Well, you know what, I was not there. I don’t know what exactly happened. In any case, please allow me to say - I am very sorry that all that stuff happened to you people. I am really, really sorry, but we Turks are different now. Times are different now, let move ahead in our lives, it will benefit us all.
Armenians are going to respond: Yes, lets move ahead, but, it is essential that your government officially apologizes and begins to implement friendly policies toward the Armenian nation. Also, why is your government openly helping the Azeris against us? That problem should have nothing to do with our relations with Turkey.
Turks are going to reply: As far as the Nagorno Karabagh issue is concerned, we support the territorial integrity of all nations. Clearly, Armenian are the aggressors there. However, I do not want to talk about that problem. Lets get back to our issue. Turks will not officially apologize because they are afraid of land and money compensations. You have to understand that Turkey is not a rich nation.
At this point, some Armenian low-lives are going to reply: Very well, but please, even if its some kind of a token recognition and compensation, it needs to be made in order to appease the masses who are still suffering from a posttraumatic condition brought upon by the Genocide.
And at this point, Turks will get encouraged by the Armenian response and say: My government has similar problem with the Kurds and the Greek, thus, no such compensation can be acceptable for us Turks. Please people, accept our apologies and lets move a head in life, we don't have another choice.
The Armenian low-lives are going to respond: Well, ok, as long as we can be "good neighbors" and have no more problems, we will accept your apology and we'll live happily ever after.
And at this point, Armenians like me are going to tell Turks: Go to hell, you and your Azeri brothers, we will not rest until your nation is destroyed. After what happened between our nations, Turks and Armenians can never live side by side. Besides which, Armenians and Turks never have lived side by side with Turks. What's more, as long as the Turkish government holds our sacred lands, as long as the Turkish government supports our enemies, as long as the blood of our ancestors are not avenged somehow -- there cannot even be any discussions regarding 'coexistence' between Turks and Armenians.
Despite the aforementioned futility in dealing with such types of Turks, we have morons within the Armenian community that entertain them: In my opinion, these Armenians are the sad off-springs of cowards and peasants. I have even heard absurd talk by these so-called Armenians about the "closeness" of Armenian and Turkic cultures and centuries of the "happy-go-lucky" existence of us Armenians within the Ottoman Empire. I mean how stupid, how idiotic! The centuries of Turkic rule reduced Asia Minor, the epicenter of western civilization and Christendom, into and bloody Turkic/Islamic cesspool. And "that" is supposed to be our centuries of "happy" coexistence with Turks?!?!?! Nevertheless, even after centuries of Turkic rule, we Armenians are still "vastly" different from the Turk - culturally, socially and ethically. Anyone that claims otherwise is either a certified idiot or a registered pornik.
As a concerned Armenian: I do not want the government of Turkey to "ever" recognize the Armenian genocide. If it does so, I am confident that the entire Armenian population of the Diaspora will disappear into the pages of history within two or three generations. Unfortunately, for most of our brethren the "Hai Dat" is the only "psychological anchor" they have that maintains their Armenian identity. Moreover, I do not want the Turkish government to "ever" end its trade embargo against the Republic of Armenia. the Republic of Armenia needs to desperately emphasize trade and cooperation with Iran and Russia - not Turkey. Besides which, we Armenians really don't need the garbage produced within Turkey for the betterment of Armenia's economy. Most sane economists within Armenia understand this. Opening Armenia's borders with Turkey can only benefit the Turkish nation and a few traveling porniks within Armenia economically and Washington and Tel Aviv, antagonists of Yerevan, strategically. Furthermore, I want the Turkish government to continue supporting Anti-Armenian terrorist nations such as Azerbaijan, Israel, Georgia and Chechnya - this is the only way to convince all Armenians that our nation's best interests are served by our nation's alliances with the Russian Federation and the Islmic Republic of Iran.
There needs to be absolutely no talk about "coexistence" and/or "reconciliation" with Turks - it is absurd: Besides the obvious fact that Turkey, unlike Armenia, is a relatively primitive nation with an Islamic Turkic heritage and a bloody past, Turkey has serious geo-political problems with virtually everyone of it's neighbors. Turkey has serious territorial disputes with Armenians, Greeks, Cypriots, Iraqis, Iranians and Syrians. Most importantly, however, is the fact that the Turkish state has a very terminal "internal" problem with its Kurdish population that, in essence, is a cancer that will eventually destroy it. Besides which, Armenians and Turks are drastically different - socially, culturally, morally and genetically. Besides which, there can be no talk of our coexistence with Turks as long as our sacred lands are occupied by barbarians. There can be no talk of coexistence as long as the blood of our countless forefathers have not been avenged.
Thus, in final analysis: Sooner or later, the crimes of the Turkish nation against the Armenian people will get punished. Just in case there are any Turks who are hopeful that they will succeed in fooling certain self-hating Armenian 'xxxxxs' into thinking that the modern Turk is progressive and western oriented, they should also realize that it is Armenians who more-or-less portray the attitude that 'I' have conveyed here are the ones who essentially end up making political policy and implementing them - not the Sultan's lapdogs.
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