Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

    Watertown Tab and Press
    Watertown, MA



    DiMascio: `No Place for Fat-Free Lard'
    By John DiMascio, Common Sense
    GateHouse News Service
    Thu Aug 09, 2007, 08:49 AM EDT

    WATERTOWN, MA -

    The Aug. 1 Boston Globe reported that Abraham Foxman (national director of
    the Anti-Defamation League), said that it would be quote - bigoted - end
    quote for Watertown to rescind its involvement with `No Place for Hate'
    simply because the ADL refuses to recognize the Armenian Genocide.
    Foxman's assertion is so asinine that even long-time ADL supporters like
    Boston University professor Dr. Michael Siegel are scratching their heads in
    disbelief.
    Quite simply, Foxman and the ADL consider themselves the presumptive
    prelates of pluralism, endowed with the sole power to arbitrarily define the
    term `bigotry.' If you agree with their position, you are the incarnation of
    tolerance. If you do not, you are the manifestation of hatred and bigotry.
    In reality, these self-anointed demi-gods of diversity are saying: their
    definition of tolerance will not tolerate any intolerance towards their
    views about tolerance. And if you don't tolerate their definition of
    tolerance, than you must be an intolerant bigot.
    Huh? A college full of the foremost philosophical minds couldn't decipher
    that position.
    Let me simplify it. Or dare I say, put it in more `tolerable' terms. The
    ADL's notion of tolerance makes as much sense as fat-free lard!
    Clearly, Foxman's hypocrisy provides sufficient and just cause for Watertown
    to end this ill-fated fling with the ADL. We can't knowingly keep sleeping
    with genocide deniers and still respect ourselves in the morning. Let's just
    say the `No Place for Hate' committee unwittingly set us up on a really bad
    blind date. It's time get over it and move on, lest we find ourselves
    married to this `Bridezilla!'
    There are however, some equally important issues at stake that can't be
    forgotten in the righteous furor over Foxman's foibles. Not the least of
    which is: any municipal involvement in a program that arbitrarily defines
    terms will result in marginalizing those who disagree with the program's
    definitions.
    Bloggers and pundits have commented that the `No Place for Hate' controversy
    originated because one man wants the freedom to hate gays.
    I strongly disagree with that premise. But for the sake of argument, let's
    assume it's the case. Isn't that the price we pay for democracy? No one
    needs a municipally sanctioned inquisition to condemn a man's views. If
    anybody thinks this guy is a bigot, they have every right to call to him
    one. Just like this guy has every right to his views, whatever they may be.
    Period. End of controversy. Exclamation!
    The real debate revolves around the definition of terms and just as
    important, who gets to define them.
    Let's look at the related portion of the `No Place for Hate' proclamation
    and you'll see what I'm driving at.
    `Whereas, all acts of subtle and overt ... homophobia ... substantially
    undermine ... the promise of equal justice.'
    Ok, that sounds good. But what does it mean? Who gets to define homophobia?
    Does it simply mean we are not going to tolerate denying homosexuals their
    legitimate rights as citizens of the United States? If that's the case, I
    see no problem with that language; other than it's superfluous. We already
    have state and federal Constitutions that protect everyone's rights. The
    Town Council doesn't need to waste its time restating the obvious.
    On the other hand, many world religions have historically professed that
    homosexual acts are contrary to their teachings on sexual morality.
    Are we going to include religious teachings in the definition of homophobia?
    Some would advocate exactly that course of action. And if `No Place for
    Hate' ascribes to that definition, then the Town Council unanimously (even
    if unintentionally) condemned the religious convictions of many
    constituents. Not to mention: Municipal participation in any such program
    arguably violates the free practice of religious expression.
    But this debate transcends beliefs about human sexuality. Any number of
    controversial opinions, religious convictions and statements can fit
    someone's definition of hatred, bigotry or ant-Semitism.
    Even my editor, Chris Helms, questioned the use of the phrase `fat-free
    lard.' He feared some might construe any reference to pork as anti-Semitic.
    Actually, the connection to pork never crossed my mind until he mentioned
    it. I was simply thinking of lard and fat as one in the same. Hence, my
    point is the ADL's position, like fat-free lard, is nonsensical.
    This `high-caloric' exchange about pork, fat and lard actually provides a
    not-so-lean illustration of my point. Just about anything you say can be
    interpreted by someone as hate. I suppose soon it will considered hate
    speech to ask: `Where's the beef?' in the presence of vegetarians!
    Putting my sarcasm, hyperbole and headache-inducing wordplay aside, let's
    look at what is really at issue.
    At the core of this controversy is whether or not municipal participation in
    `No Place for Hate' encroaches on our civil liberties. So long as any
    program raises such serious questions, the town has no business sanctioning
    it, let alone providing said program with taxpayer resources.
    History teaches us that the road to tyranny is often traveled one step at a
    time. What seems like an innocuous proclamation or a feel-good measure can
    soon lead to restrictions on what we can believe and publicly profess.



    What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.

    Comment


    • #22
      Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

      This evening the Town Council of Watertown, Massachussetts, rescinded its partnership of the "No Place for Hate" campaign co-sponsored by ADL on the basis that the ADL denies the Armenian Genoice and cannot continue to join with such organization.

      As the ADL's "No Place for Hate" campaing is also active in Los Angeles and Santa Barbara, I encourage Armenian residents of these cities to contact their council members and let them know that they have joined with genocide deniers and demand that they act reasonably and expeditiously in rescinding their partnership with the ADL on the same basis that the courageous council members of Watertown, Mass. have.

      The citizens of Watertown, Mass. should be proud that they have taken a stance to call out the ADL for what they are - Anti-armenian, genocide deniers.

      I shall be posting an unsigned copy of the proclamation shortly.
      Between childhood, boyhood,
      adolescence
      & manhood (maturity) there
      should be sharp lines drawn w/
      Tests, deaths, feats, rites
      stories, songs & judgements

      - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

      Comment


      • #23
        Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

        As promised, below is an unsigned copy of Watertown Council's proclamation issued today rescinding its partnership of the "No Place for Hate" campaign co-sponsored by the ADL on the account that it cannot join with such an organization because the ADL denies the Armenian Genocide.

        Click image for larger version

Name:	WATERTOWN.JPG
Views:	1
Size:	88.6 KB
ID:	538170




        --------------------------------------------------------------------------


        In light of the fact that the NO PLACE FOR HATE CAMPAIGN is being co-sponsored by Austin, Denver, Houston, Las Vegas, New York, Omaha, Philadelphia and Santa Barbara, I encourage you if you live in one of these cities to write to your city council members and your mayor, educate them re: the ADL's biased position towards non-recognition of the Armenian Genocide and encourage them to follow Watertown's courageous lead in dissassociating themselves from the ADL and its NO PLACE FOR HATE CAMPAIGN as the ADL is anti-Armenian and comprised of genocide deniers.

        Moreover, I bring to your attention the little, if any, national leadership that ANCA, AAA and ARMENPAC have provided on this matter and encourage them to belatedly take the helm on this matter, open up the dialogue on why American j-ewish advocacy groups have chosen to be on the wrong side of history re: Armenian genocide recognition and influence the existing municipalities still joined in the NO PLACE FOR HATE campaign to rescind their partnership in the campaign.

        Our cities, our nation and the world must be apprised of the ADL's choice to act as genocide deniers while making the world a party to Holocaust recognition. Enough is enough.
        Last edited by freakyfreaky; 08-14-2007, 09:34 PM.
        Between childhood, boyhood,
        adolescence
        & manhood (maturity) there
        should be sharp lines drawn w/
        Tests, deaths, feats, rites
        stories, songs & judgements

        - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

        Comment


        • #24
          Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

          Here is a copy of the letter that I just wrote to the editor of the Las Vegas Review Journal:
          __________________________________________________ _______________

          The city of Las Vegas participates in the No Place For Hate Campaign which is co-sponsored by the Anti-Defamation League.

          Yesterday, August 14, 2007, the Town Council for the Town of Watertown, Massachussetts rescinded its partnership in the "NO PLACE FOR HATE" Campaign co-sponsored by the ADL on the account that it could not join with the ADL as the ADL denies the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.

          I encourage you to publish an article re: Watertown's courage in electing to choose to be on the right side of history and divest itself of participating in anti-bias programs led by genocide deniers like the ADL and educating your readers that the city of Las Vegas is currently participating in the ADL's NO PLACE FOR HATE CAMPAIGN and, thus, has chosen to partner with genocide deniers.

          Sincerely,

          --------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Please take the time to write similar letters to the editors for the local newspapers in Austin, Denver, Houston, Las Vegas, New York, Omaha, Philadelphia and Santa Barbara.
          Between childhood, boyhood,
          adolescence
          & manhood (maturity) there
          should be sharp lines drawn w/
          Tests, deaths, feats, rites
          stories, songs & judgements

          - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

          Comment


          • #25
            Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance



            (Boston Globe confirms that Watertown cuts ties with No Place For Hate and ADL)



            (No Place for Hate given the boot)
            Between childhood, boyhood,
            adolescence
            & manhood (maturity) there
            should be sharp lines drawn w/
            Tests, deaths, feats, rites
            stories, songs & judgements

            - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

            Comment


            • #26
              Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

              J-e-wish media reports as 'breaking news' that the ADL was sacked by Watertown, Mass.

              Between childhood, boyhood,
              adolescence
              & manhood (maturity) there
              should be sharp lines drawn w/
              Tests, deaths, feats, rites
              stories, songs & judgements

              - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

              Comment


              • #27
                Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

                Asbarez gets on the bandwagon...



                --------------------------------------------------------------------------

                WATERTOWN, Mass.--The Watertown, Massachusetts Town Council voted unanimously this evening to cut ties with the Anti-Defamation League, citing concerns about ADL National Director Abraham Foxman's denial of the Armenian Genocide and opposition to Congressional legislation reaffirming that crime against humanity, reported the Armenian National Committee of Eastern Massachusetts.
                “The ANCEM applauds the Town Council for stating clearly and unequivocally that there is no place for Armenian Genocide denial in Watertown,” stated ANCEM chairperson Sharistan Melkonian “We hope that this action will prompt the ADL and its National Chairman Abe Foxman to rethink their flawed policies on this issue, recognize the Armenian Genocide and end their efforts to stop its reaffirmation by Congress.”
                The proclamation, introduced by Watertown Councillor-At-Large Marilyn Petitto Devaney, stated: “The Town Council has become aware that the ADL, denies the facts of the horrific Armenian Genocide, that occurred from 1915 to 1923, in which the premeditated, systematic and deliberate murders of more that one and one half million Armenians from 1915 to 1923 took place, as well as continuing to deprive the Armenian people of a right to their history - The Town Council can not continue to join with such an organization.”
                The proclamation went on to reaffirm Watertown's commitment to “celebrate its diversity and continue to honor its tradition of tolerance and respect for all people for which it has always been known.”
                Watertown residents spoke poignantly before the capacity crowd in attendance to express their concerns about local affiliation with the ADL's genocide denial policies, moving Town Council members to take decisive action and encourage other Massachusetts towns to follow in their footsteps.
                In her remarks before the Town Council, ANCEM representative Grace Kulegian stated that “We are confident that the just resolution of this matter will deepen Watertown's commitment to tolerance, strengthen No Place for Hate's ability to speak with real moral clarity, and - for the sake of its members and its own future as an organization - end the ADL's truly unfortunate affiliation with genocide denial."
                The Watertown - ADL controversy erupted in recent weeks, with Boston area civil rights advocates, and local Armenian and xxxish American community members expressing disappointment and outrage at recent statements by ADL National Director Abe Foxman denying the Armenian Genocide. Editorials and community letters in the local Watertown Tab and Boston Globe cast a shadow on the credibility of the anti-racism program, No Place for Hate, due to its affiliation with the ADL.


                Text of Watertown Town Council Proclamation

                WHEREAS: the Town Council on July 12, 2005 voted unanimously to proclaim Watertown a "No Place for Hate" municipality; and,
                WHEREAS: The Town Council committed to fulfill the criteria in good faith, to join with its sponsors: the anti-defamation league, (ADL) Massachusetts Municipal Association and other coalition members to take specific actions to combat bias and promote respect for people, and
                WHEREAS: The Town Council has become aware that the ADL, denies the facts of the horrific Armenian Genocide, that occurred from 1915 to 1923, in which the premeditated, systematic and deliberate murders of more that one and one half million Armenians from 1915 to 1923 took place, as well as continuing to deprive the Armenian people of a right to their history - The Town Council can not continue to join with such an organization.
                THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Town Council of the City known as the Town of Watertown hereby rescinds its partnership of the "No Place for Hate" co-sponsored by ADL.
                BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Town Council of the City known as the Town of Watertown, although it withdraws from the aforementioned group of municipalities, hereby proclaims that Watertown will continue to celebrate its diversity and continue to honor its tradition of tolerance and respect for all people for which it has always been known.
                SPONSORED BY: MARILYN M. PETITTO DEVANEY, COUNCILLOR-AT-LARGE
                IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Great Seal of the Town of Watertown to be affixed on this fourteenth day of August, 2007.

                CLYDE L. YOUNGER, COUNCIL PRESIDENT

                ANCEM Statement at Watertown Town Council Meeting August 14, 2007
                Presented by ANCEM Representative Grace Kulegian

                I rise today to briefly offer the Armenian National Committee's views on an issue of profound meaning to the Armenians of Watertown - and to all of our town's residents who share our commitment to tolerance, respect for diversity, and - ultimately - to creating a world without discrimination and genocide.
                Like all of you, we regret that the controversy over the Anti-Defamation League and No Place for Hate has reached this point.
                But we could not remain silent in the face of such blatant hypocrisy on a core issue of our common morality - in the face of those who preach tolerance but practice divisiveness and denial.
                We had hoped to resolve this issue based on our shared values.
                But for the sake of our town, for the sake of No Place for Hate, and on behalf of the many kind and decent members of the ADL, we have taken a principled stand for the truth.
                We did not invite this controversy - sparked by the hateful words spoken on behalf of the ADL, by one its misguided officials Abraham Foxman.
                Words far outside the proud tradition of the ADL and entirely alien to noble legacy of the American xxxish community as a powerful voice for truth and justice.
                Words that have grown more offensive and insulting with each new interview and article.
                Words that echo the denialist rhetoric of the Turkish government.
                Hypocritical words that strikes at the very heart of the ADL's credibility, that undermine No Place for Hate's ability to make a difference, and, sadly, stain Watertown's reputation as a town that fosters diversity.
                Although, we did not begin this conflict, we are committed to seeing this difficult issue through.
                We are confident that the just resolution of this matter will deepen Watertown's commitment to tolerance, strengthen No Place for Hate's ability to speak with real moral clarity, and - for the sake of its members and its own future as an organization - end the ADL's truly unfortunate affiliation with genocide denial.
                This is an issue that demands action - clear and decisive action by the Council.
                On behalf of Watertown's Armenian community - and our century-long history of service and sacrifice for our town - we call upon the Town Council to dissociate itself from the ADL until such time that:
                The Anti Defamation League, through its National Director, Mr. Foxman, openly and unequivocally acknowledges the Armenian Genocide and supports congressional affirmation of this crime against humanity.

                Thank you.
                Between childhood, boyhood,
                adolescence
                & manhood (maturity) there
                should be sharp lines drawn w/
                Tests, deaths, feats, rites
                stories, songs & judgements

                - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

                Comment


                • #28
                  Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

                  Originally posted by freakyfreaky View Post
                  In light of the fact that the NO PLACE FOR HATE CAMPAIGN is being co-sponsored by Austin, Denver, Houston, Las Vegas, New York, Omaha, Philadelphia and Santa Barbara, I encourage you if you live in one of these cities to write to your city council members and your mayor, educate them re: the ADL's biased position towards non-recognition of the Armenian Genocide and encourage them to follow Watertown's courageous lead in dissassociating themselves from the ADL and its NO PLACE FOR HATE CAMPAIGN as the ADL is anti-Armenian and comprised of genocide deniers.

                  Moreover, I bring to your attention the little, if any, national leadership that ANCA, AAA and ARMENPAC have provided on this matter and encourage them to belatedly take the helm on this matter, open up the dialogue on why American j-ewish advocacy groups have chosen to be on the wrong side of history re: Armenian genocide recognition and influence the existing municipalities still joined in the NO PLACE FOR HATE campaign to rescind their partnership in the campaign.

                  Our cities, our nation and the world must be apprised of the ADL's choice to act as genocide deniers while making the world a party to Holocaust recognition. Enough is enough.


                  As I have said earlier, I would like to see a nation wide confrontation; I think that the time is right and this is a good opportunity.
                  What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

                    The signs come down in Watertown, the message about the ADL's hypocrisy spreads to other surrounding "No Place for Hate" campaign communities and the ADL does their best General Custer imitation claiming that Watertown has lost a valued resource.



                    Story makes another Armenian media outlet.

                      Ռադիոանոնս Ռադիոանոնս․ «Ազգ» շաբաթաթերթ, 25.01.24 25/01/2024 Ռադիոանոնս․ «Ազգ» շաբաթաթերթ, 18.01.24 18/01/2024 Ռադիոանոնս․ «Ազգ» շաբաթաթերթ, 23.12.23 23/12/2


                    Still no mention from national ANCA, AAA, or ARMENPAC. Still no extra-regional, national or international mainstream media coverage.

                    So let's see press releases by American x-x-wish advocacy groups condemning Iran for conducting a Holocaust symposium in Tehran makes U.S. mainstream media channels but not a peep about how one of these organizations got booted out of Watertown for being genocide deniers.



                    What's really going on here?

                    Obviously, our American Armenian leaders are having little success in broadcasting the genocide recogition platform to the masses.
                    Last edited by freakyfreaky; 08-15-2007, 11:09 PM.
                    Between childhood, boyhood,
                    adolescence
                    & manhood (maturity) there
                    should be sharp lines drawn w/
                    Tests, deaths, feats, rites
                    stories, songs & judgements

                    - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

                      The Watertown press also inquiries if the groundswell re: the ADL's anti-genocide resolution stance which caused Watertown to revoke its participation with the No Place for Hate campain will spread to other "No Place for Hate" communities.



                      ANC for Eastern Massachussetts chimes in too re: Watertown's recent proclamation blasting the ADL.



                      Apparently, ANCA National is taking a wait and see approach until after the dust clears and a winner emerges before it decides to take a stance.

                      Too bad that Mr. Foxman can bring world and religious leaders to their knees but Aram Hamparian apparently has not even found his voice yet.

                      For shiats and giggles, Colbert recently investigates hate speech on the internet with Kos blogger Markos Moulitsas (whose Daily Kos website has written about the Armenian Genocide)

                      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/0...a_n_60690.html (Colbert show video link)

                      http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/13/8455/8796 (Kos contributor blogs on Armenian Genocide)

                      Also, here is the Watertown press's first release, that I inadvertently omitted earlier, briefly reporting on Watertown's giving the ADL the heave-ho.



                      And, here is a Cenral and E. Mass blogger weighing in on Watertown citizens spat with the ADL before Watertown issued its proclamation.

                      Between childhood, boyhood,
                      adolescence
                      & manhood (maturity) there
                      should be sharp lines drawn w/
                      Tests, deaths, feats, rites
                      stories, songs & judgements

                      - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X