Nakhichevan

[Icy]

I'm only 14, so if I say something that is off please
don't insult me, because I'm just starting to study
about Armenian history.

I was wondering what's the point of Azerbaijan having
Nakhichevan? I mean clearly in the map you can see
Azerbaijan has no access to it.



Can someone explain to me why Azerbaijan is still keeping
it, and is there any chance of Armenia possibly retrieving
Nakhichevan back?

[Eddo211]

Barev Icy jan

That is a very good questions, I hope someone can answer that correctly for both of us.

I don’t know about you but it sure smells fishy doesn’t it.................this Armenian land carved by Soviet Union and the new Turkey back in the 1920s, it almost looks like a setup to hang us dry if you ask me.

This Ancient Armenian land has a long and bloody history from day one my young friend, forged with the blood of Armenian warriors, including the scene of many brutal battles of conquering armies throughout history..................waiting to be liberated by its rightful owners.

[Icy]

Thank you for you're reply Edo.
I was wondering do you think Armenia will ever retrieve it back?

[Pazooki]

Well, I know w/e about Nakhichevan but I'll give it a go.

I'm guessing that Nakhichevan was never really Azerbaijan's land. The Azeri's are actually being smart for keeping it(Smart Azeri's - Oxymoron .) If we were to go to war against Azerbaijan, they can attack from both sides thus making it harder for us to deploy them back. But, we are Armenia!!! Azerbaboons will never defeat us!! :P

So yea, I'm guessing it's more of a military thing than anything else.

Other than that, it would be pointless to give Armenia Nakhichevan so they can build stronger ties with one of their best allies,Iran. That would put them in a worser situation IMO.

[Icy]

To be honest I think if Armenia ever goes back to war with
Azergayjan Armenia should concur Nakhichevan.

[hrai]

Originally Posted by Icy

I'm only 14, so if I say something that is off please
don't insult me, because I'm just starting to study
about Armenian history.

I was wondering what's the point of Azerbaijan having
Nakhichevan? I mean clearly in the map you can see
Azerbaijan has no access to it.



Can someone explain to me why Azerbaijan is still keeping
it, and is there any chance of Armenia possibly retrieving
Nakhichevan back?

The baboons have Nakhichevan as a link to the turcs, they wanted/want more. See the link below to what they put before the Paris Peace Conference in 1919 :

http://www.geocities.com/ayafe/Map_ADR_small.gif

Good luck with your studies!!!!

[Icy]

Those greedy baboons, I hope one day we will get most of our
land back.

[Federate]

Parev or Barev Icy and welcome to the forum. Your question is a great one to ask and I am glad to see that you are interested in the topic at such a fresh age. Don't let your age hold you back from your studies or your questions. Also, I would like to congratulate you on using the map you used in your first post in this thread and not many of the bogus ones such as Armenia without Artsakh or one with enclaved "NKAO" borders.

This post explains in the simplest and briefest way why and how Nakhichevan is currently in azerbaboonjan. What is the point of them keeping Nakhichevan? It provides a 9 km border with Turkey and technically acts as a link between both Turkic countries. It deprives Armenia of a long border with Iran too among the many strategic advantages of basically just having land. Also, if you check the former borders of Armenia (without Artsakh), you can see that all that separated Turkey and azerbaboonjan is that narrow fragile piece of land at Vayots Dzor/Syunik...

I suggest reading this interview with Artsakh war hero Jirair Sefilian about Nakhichevan and any future strategy regarding it. There are points I agree and there are points I disagree but it's sadly rare to find any Armenian official talking about a strategy regarding that part of historic Armenia so take it for what its worth. Hope this helps.

"THE NEXT MUST BE NAKHIJEVAN"
An exclusive interview with Jirair Sefilian

- "Jarangutyun" party recently put into circulation the draft law of recognition of Nagorno Karabakh independence. What can you say on this occasion?

- If the issue is settled only with the recognition of NKR independence, I am against it. I will agree with it, if it has a logical continuation, mainly, if after it NKR unites the Republic of Armenia turning into two or more provinces of it. Besides, parallel with this we must correct our mistake of 1988 and lay claim to joining Nakhijevan to Armenia. If it is not logical continuation of the proposal of "Jarangutyun", then I am against it. Without the mentioned steps it seems that NKR becomes independent not from Azerbaijan, but Armenia, and it will do a big harm to our national unity. Before that proposal, the authorities of NKR took seriously the "fact" of being independent. By the way, it is one of the main reasons of contradictions between the citizens of Armenia and Karabakh, when Armenians being citizens of different states forget that Artsakh is part of Armenia. The creators of NKR at that time thought that they would have chances to maneuver in international political sphere. In reality, we lie to ourselves, while the so-called international society continues to regard it as an Armenian-Azerbaijani issue and does not see Artsakh as a separate side of the conflict. We must stop this clownery and organize a new referendum to unite NKR with Armenia.

- Nevertheless, according to recent Gall polls 2/3 of the questioned are for the independence of NKR.

- I don’t think that Gall polls show the real picture. The Gall polls are not for the clarification of the people’s approaches, but for the compulsion of other viewpoints. The results of that Gall poll are not only incorrect, but also very dangerous because of the advocating effect.

- Do you think that it’s the correct time to speak of not only the joining of NKR and Armenia, but also to raise the issue of Nakhijevan parallel?

- Until today, it’s not understandable for me why the Karabakh movement didn’t demand for joining Nakhijevan. Didn’t the members of Karabakh committee know that Nakhijevan was banished at the same time with Artsakh? Didn’t they know that if Garegin Njdeh did not organize the resistance of Syunik, it would also have the same fate? I have heard many explanations, which remind me justifications. But now the most important thing is not to know the real reasons of it, and not to blame the political figures of that time, but to correct the mistake, and it’s the real time and even late. The issue of Artsakh we may consider as settled by 80 percent. Nevertheless, we must not forget of the rest 20 percent: the regions of Shahumian and Getashen. We must also start the process of Nakhijevan today, though we are pretty late to start it. The moment was served two years ago by the scream of Nor Jugha’s crossstones. The Azerbaijani army’s leaders of Nakhijevan must answer for that barbaric crime. Nakhijevan must become the main issue of RA foreign policy. Diaspora must also buckle down to it, having it in the foreground instead of the recognition of the Armenian genocide.

- But Armenians were majority in Artsakh, while the Azerbaijani live in Nakhijevan.

- We are not going to force the population of Nakhijevan, Tatars by origin, to leave their homes. They must understand that they are new comers. I am sure that the population living there is very dissatisfied with its barrack-like form of life. Armenians are ready to live in peace with them, not to be rancorous. Armenia must recommend their security and provide educational, cultural and economic freedom, and roads, but the Armenian authorities must rule the region. The necessity of joining Nakhijevan to Armenia is not conditioned only with the rehabilitation of historical justice. It has also geopolitical and economic importance for nowadays Armenia’s strategy. The Azerbaijani army must leave that region, but the Armenian armed forces will not allocate there, as Nakhijevan will become an anti-military region creating the best conditions for the free market between Armenia and Iran.

- Don’t you think that it will bring to a new war, a new instability and economic collapse?

- The means of pretension must be legal, diplomatic, public, scientific-cultural, etc. All those means must serve the only goal – manifestation of the national will to re-possess Nakhijevan. The authorities of the provinces of Syunik, Vayots Dzor and Ararat must have contact in connection with it. It doesn’t mean that we rouse a war. If our enemy wants a war and is ready for it, it will not ask our opinion. It’s a well-known truth that only the week are attacked. Iran may be a good means to settle the issue and not to re-start the war, as it is a highly respected country for both sides.

- What about the economy, I am sure that the main reason that impedes the progress of the Armenian economy is the present infirm regime of Armenia, and not the Karabakh conflict.

- The transport network, which has a big role in the economy, is insufficiently developed in Armenia. With the help of Nakhijevan we could recover the railway communication with Syunik and Artsakh, and also make a railway connection with Iran, which has a strategic importance for Armenia. The gas and oil pipelines could easily go to North within the territory of Nakhijevan. It would be also possible to create an oil refining industry. Being the continuation of the Ararat valley and a significant granary of wheat, Nakhijevan could transfer Armenia from an importer of wheat to an exporter of it, and to multiply the export of other agronomical cultures. A new opportunity would be given to build a hydroelectric power station on Arax River. The benefits are evident also in the sphere of defense: instead of 150 km we would protect only 8 km border after the join of Nakhijevan. With this, we would make more invulnerable "the Armenian wedge" and will protect and develop the Northern-Southern strategy of our country.

- Do you think that it is realistic to carry out this program?

- Unfortunately, it’s not possible to carry out national programs of strategic importance under the present-day regime. Nevertheless, I think that it’s time to speak and discuss these kind of programs, in order to realize it without delay under the future national government.

Translated by L. H.

http://azg.am/?lang=EN&num=2007092106

[Icy]

Thanks a lot Federate, do you mind if I call you that
since I don't know you're real name.
I've seen your past posts and threads, and I have to say you
are like a living encyclopedia
Thank you for the wonderful information.

My only question now is, do you think Armenia will ever be
able to retrieve Nakhichevan back?

[Federate]

Originally Posted by Icy

Thanks a lot Federate, do you mind if I call you that
since I don't know you're real name.
I've seen your past posts and threads, and I have to say you
are like a living encyclopedia
Thank you for the wonderful information.

No problem.

My only question now is, do you think Armenia will ever be
able to retrieve Nakhichevan back?

I don't want to speak in extremes here. All I can say is it will be much harder to get Nakhichevan back than it was for Artsakh. Why? There are zero Armenians living there. However, there used to be a few hundreds of thousands "azeris" in entire Artsakh and now there are zero so I would not rule out an Armenian Nakhichevan at all . The region also currently experiences a negative migration rate and the only people who actually settle in the region are Kurds. Check this article out... while it should be viewed with caution since the original comes from an "azeri" source, I find it's pretty credible:

THE VILLAGES ARE IN SALE IN NAXCIVAN: KURDISH FAMILIES WHO COME FROM TURKEY BUY HOUSES OF LOCAL PEOPLE

Yeni Musavat
June 8 2008
Azerbaijan

We have informed many times about the activities of the PKK [the
Kurdistan Workers Party] supporters in Naxcivan, their self-management
in the universities of this autonomous republic, the distribution of
the symbols and the flags of the unrecognized state of Kurdistan, the
harassment and the proscription of local people and the transfer of
the sales outlets to the people who sympathize with the PKK. The other
newspapers have also alarmed on this issue. The situation has reached
its peak. Various Azerbaijani officials have started talking about the
threat to the country by the PKK. The press secretary of the Ministry
of Foreign Affairs, Xazar Ibrahim, made such statement last week.

Inflow of Kurds from Turkey continues

Despite the statements and the media alarm, there have not been taken
any serious step at the official level. Therefore, the Kurdish flow
into Naxcivan from Turkey has intensified. According to information
that our editorial office received from Naxcivan, there have been
observed the settlement in the centres of the districts up to
now. The process has spread on villages lately. The families who
have the Turkish citizenship settle in the villages in Naxcivan that
have been become deserted due to economic problems. "They come to
villages and look for the owners of the houses that are locked. The
majority of the owners have moved either to Baku or to Turkey. The
local authorities mediate the meetings of the local people who have
moved to Baku with Turkish citizens. The landlords are called from
Baku to Naxcivan and the Turkish citizens pay them 10-12,000 dollars
in order to buy the property. The local people who moved to Baku many
years ago are happy to get that price for the houses where they have
not lived for many years. They think that they live in Baku and do
not need the property in the village".

It is interesting that the Turkish citizens who buy houses in the
villages of Naxcivan say that they are the Turks. The local people
do not doubt that the new comers are the Kurds.

Naxcivan - out of sight, out of mind

A former officer of the Ministry of National Security who has
[anonymously] talked with us about the issue has said that the
processes in Naxcivan may generate huge problems for Azerbaijan in
future. He thinks that the processes should have been prevented
at the early stages. "The tension in Naxcivan is caused by the
absence of the land frontiers with the autonomous republic and that
the Azerbaijani public and media are not able to influence it. The
second factor is that the local branch of the Ministry of National
Security in Naxcivan that is supposed to give information about the
processes either does not give information or the given information
has no impact. The local authorities in Naxcivan are not influenced
in appropriate manner. This is because the authorities in Naxcivan
enjoy an extraordinary status. None of the state institutions in
Azerbaijan except for the president may influence the authorities in
Naxcivan. The relevant state institutions may not use information
that they have. The fact that they are not able to influence the
situation might cause serious problems in Naxcivan in future. The
increasing settlement of the Turkish citizens with the Kurdish origin
in the villages of Naxcivan may cause serious problems for the local
inhabitants in future as well. A number of experts have also warned
that if the abovesaid settlement is not prevented, it may cause that
the separation of Naxcivan from Azerbaijan will come to the agenda
in near future. If the process continues this way, it may happen
in few years. It will result in the loss of more territories in
prospect. There are no doubts that the countries which are unfriendly
to Turkey have a serious interest in creating a hot spot on the border
of Turkey and Azerbaijan. It is also obvious that if the migrants
moving to Naxcivan will put forward political and other demands,
they will get support from Armenia that has land border with Naxcivan".

Our interviewee has stressed that the population of Naxcivan who have
always been distinguished with the spirit of resistance have lost their
it now. "The economic problems and unbearable political conditions
have caused the migration of the local people from Naxcivan. It is
not a secret that there are empty villages in Naxcivan. People have
moved either to Baku or to Turkey".

No media access to exclave

The officer of the Ministry of National Security has reminded that
it is impossible to send a correspondent from Baku to Naxcivan and
this is a serious challenge. This does not serve to the interests
of Azerbaijan. "The opposition politicians who are originally
from Naxcivan are not able to travel there. This behaviour of the
local authorities in Naxcivan and the fact that foreign dangerous
powers have found a fruitful ground there will cause a tragedy for
Azerbaijan. Naxcivan is settled by strangers who dislike the Turks
and Turkey and when the war starts with Armenia they will not protect
Naxcivan. They will either leave Naxcivan or support the Armenians. It
may result in the loss of Naxcivan. The process in Naxcivan may have
such causes that one shudders with horror while thinking of them. There
has appeared a chasm between Azerbaijan and Naxcivan. The fact that
the strangers who do not protect the interests of Azerbaijan are
brought to Naxcivan means that there is a time bomb in Naxcivan".

Our interlocutor says that there is a way how the country can escape
the tragedy. "Security services should combine information that they
have about the migration of strangers to Naxcivan with information
published in media and report to the president. Further, there should
be taken very serious measures. If steps are taken with the support of
the president, the above mentioned facts in Naxcivan can be neutralized
in few days. It is easy to put the problem to the end. There should
be just determination and the will.


http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg234487.html

[Icy]

So if Armenia goes to war over Nakhichevan, they would have to face
more Kurds that Azeris?
If they do go to war, and if we do win? what possitive outcomes
will it have on Armenia?
And what challenges will Armenia face?

[Federate]

Originally Posted by Icy

So if Armenia goes to war over Nakhichevan, they would have to face
more Kurds that Azeris?
If they do go to war, and if we do win? what possitive outcomes
will it have on Armenia?
And what challenges will Armenia face?

Not at the present moment but the fact that the azeris are leaving and Kurds are coming in is a telling story. To win a war like this and to maintain the victory, you need to either have local support or you will need to drive the population out. Having at least a sizable Kurdish minority in this poor enclave makes the job a little easier since we can make deals with the turk-hating Kurds. The main challenge Armenia will face is the 9 km stretch of border with Turkey. It could be devastating if Turkey decides to interfere and invade Nakhichevan and then through it, Armenia. Keep in mind that Russia only guards the borders with Turkey and Iran and not with "azerbaijan". The positive outcomes are enormous as Jirair Sefilian details in the last part of his interview.

However, it is obvious that at the present moment, we are bogged down with the Artsakh war and a direct war will not happen in the near future. But this should not prevent us from waging an information war filled with propaganda against this blockaded territory. And as long as we continue to not have a single Armenian in the region, we face a big obstacle. Jiro has a couple of debatable solutions to the Nakhichevan problem.

[Icy]

Thank you again, but since the turks hate the kurds, won't the turks actually
help us in that war, and since now a days Armenia and Turkey are thinking of
opening the borders, why would Turkey even think of attacking us?

[Federate]

Originally Posted by Icy

Thank you again, but since the turks hate the kurds, won't the turks actually
help us in that war, and since now a days Armenia and Turkey are thinking of
opening the borders, why would Turkey even think of attacking us?

No because the Kurds will most probably never become a majority in Nakhichevan but they could potentially become a large minority in the region which we could use to our own benefit.

Turkey would possibly attack us IF we attacked Nakhichevan but this will not happen in the near-future so don't worry about it. It would attack because Turkey does not give a sh!t about Armenia and would like nothing more than to find an excuse to finally crush us. As much as Armenia and Turkey are negotiating on opening the border, the talks are very fragile since Az and Turkey are still allies.

[Icy]

The Armenian government should plan a lot of threats
to Azergayjan, and just keep bombing them with threats, until
Azergayjan finally breaks, then we attack!