Dashnak... Ramgavar... Within the Diaspora... ?

KotayKoskesh · 07-30-2005, 06:42 PM

Hi, I grew up in Montreal... here is how it works here... Dashnags are known as muslimized Armenians who think Armenia should be Pro-American and Ramgavar are a pro-Russian party who is logically not muslimized ( when I say muslimized I mean either Ottomanized or people who have Armenian names but think Beirut is a nicer place than Yerevan )

..Ok ..I have read quite a few articles on the internet that would prove this description of the two parties completely false..

Now I did research and even websites who claim to be official offer completely different descriptions for the parties.

Would someone please care to tell me how the parties really are in Armenia because all I know about is how they are in Canada..

Thank's

TomServo · 07-30-2005, 06:47 PM

Here in sunny California, I'd say the ARF/Dashnags are the predominant party. Yes, they're mostly Armenians from Mideast countries (Lebanon/Syria, Iraq, Iran, UAE, etc.), but I wouldn't exactly call them Muslimized...

KotayKoskesh · 07-30-2005, 06:53 PM

no no of course lol no Armenian would be like "hey, the koran is cool" lol I just used the term to identify them I could also have said middleeasternized... heh...

and are the dashnags pro-American in Cali or Pro-Russian ?

TomServo · 07-30-2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KotayKoskesh

no no of course lol no Armenian would be like "hey, the koran is cool" lol I just used the term to identify them I could also have said middleeasternized... heh...

and are the dashnags pro-American in Cali or Pro-Russian ?

Hmm, they're pro-Lebanon.

KotayKoskesh · 07-30-2005, 06:58 PM

hmmmm ....if I follow what you think about dashnaks... they are the same everywhere lol

TomServo · 07-30-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KotayKoskesh

hmmmm ....if I follow what you think about dashnaks... they are the same everywhere lol

How is Montreal by the way? I haven't been there in such a long time.

KotayKoskesh · 07-30-2005, 07:09 PM

hehe ..same as always ..one of the nicest cities in the summer ..one of the ugliest ones in the winter ...thers alot going on right now the Jazz festival just ended like 2 weeks ago now its the Francofolies festival ..its like francophones from all over the world singing in 1 festival ..its pretty nice ..when did you last visit Montreal ?

TomServo · 07-30-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KotayKoskesh

hehe ..same as always ..one of the nicest cities in the summer ..one of the ugliest ones in the winter ...thers alot going on right now the Jazz festival just ended like 2 weeks ago now its the Francofolies festival ..its like francophones from all over the world singing in 1 festival ..its pretty nice ..when did you last visit Montreal ?

When I was a kid, heh. I visited my relatives there and it was fun. We also went to Quebec City where you can ride around the city on a horse and it smells like shi...

Dave · 07-30-2005, 08:02 PM

Speaking about Armenians and Montreal... There will be an Armenian Festival in Vieux-Port Aug. 6-7.

Tashnags were anti-Soviet in the old days, because they wanted an independant Armenia. Now, they strongly encourage relations with countries other than Turkey and gang. There were also a lot of problems between the Cilician Catholicosate of Antilias, and the Catholicosate of Echmiadzin. Stories of pro-Echmiadzin Armenians peeing in the Antilias church and stuff...

TomServo sh*tty horses are also available in Old Montreal.

Baron Dants · 07-30-2005, 10:40 PM

Tashnagtsutyun and Ramgavarutyun are both outdated and should be extinct (in the diaspora) *gasp!*.

In Montreal, Ramgavars are usually people with higher education, with a large knowledge of the Armenian language and culture, but whose children are much more English-speaking, and much less involved. Tashnags usually have a less affluent background, and more xxxelers and mechanics among them...and while they speak in a sometimes downright ugly Armenian (briz, reyiz, agas, etc), they, and their kids, tend to speak Armenian most of the time. Now this can also be because Ramgavars (many Yekibdahays) have usually been established in Montreal for a longer time.. Or it can be because the Tashnags usually do a lot to instill Armenian pride among their kids, although I find that it can too often be based on heroes and Antranigs and Tros...or Lisbon 5, etc, and not always about the culture.

The problem is, many of the main people in these parties have been around since the Cold War era, and have kept their own personal issues even after Armenia's independance. If these organizations adopted a non-political attitude, we could get a lot more done, in a lot less time. Many decisions are still made on whether or fact it benefits the party, and not necessarily the community, and that is the biggest shame of all.

Baron Dants · 07-30-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

Stories of pro-Echmiadzin Armenians peeing in the Antilias church and stuff...

And the story of pro-Antilias people assassinating an Echmiadznagan bishop...

Bottom line is..that was then, this is now.

KotayKoskesh · 07-31-2005, 09:59 AM

hmm thx for replying and dave ill be in Armenia the 6th of august ...too bad

hehe ...
and dants what you say about Yegiptahye is very true alot of them are ramgavar but their kids dont even speak Armenian ( me ) ...as for what you say about tashnags who instill "fake" Armenian pride in their kids I think this is very true ... so in the end both parties have their pro's and con's I guess..

Baron Dants · 07-31-2005, 02:46 PM

Yep. But in my opinion, the pros could be a lot stronger if everything were done outside of a political party mindset.

What school have you gone to? Do I know you? lol

Dave · 07-31-2005, 05:57 PM

There's nothing ''fake'' about the Armenian pride tashnags teach to their children. Tell me why it's fake.

Quote:

hmm thx for replying and dave ill be in Armenia the 6th of august ...too bad hehe ...

and don't come back!

... jk

Diar Dants Tashnag and pro-Tashnag Armenians have a better school here. I'm pretty sure you've heard bad comments about Sourp Hagop but Armenian is tought until sec.5 Which means tashnag kids will know better Armenian than anybody else in this part of the Armenian diaspora.

In some other school they even let Arab kids to enter

TomServo · 07-31-2005, 05:59 PM

Yeah, Sourp Hagop in Montreal. Is it a K-12th school?

07-30-2005, 06:42 PM	#1
KotayKoskesh Masis Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 104	Dashnak... Ramgavar... Within the Diaspora... ? Hi, I grew up in Montreal... here is how it works here... Dashnags are known as muslimized Armenians who think Armenia should be Pro-American and Ramgavar are a pro-Russian party who is logically not muslimized ( when I say muslimized I mean either Ottomanized or people who have Armenian names but think Beirut is a nicer place than Yerevan ) ..Ok ..I have read quite a few articles on the internet that would prove this description of the two parties completely false.. Now I did research and even websites who claim to be official offer completely different descriptions for the parties. Would someone please care to tell me how the parties really are in Armenia because all I know about is how they are in Canada.. Thank's __________________ Vorovhetev konn e arkayutyune yev zorutyune yev parke, havityans havitenits.

07-30-2005, 06:53 PM	#3
KotayKoskesh Masis Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 104	no no of course lol no Armenian would be like "hey, the koran is cool" lol I just used the term to identify them I could also have said middleeasternized... heh... and are the dashnags pro-American in Cali or Pro-Russian ? __________________ Vorovhetev konn e arkayutyune yev zorutyune yev parke, havityans havitenits.

07-30-2005, 06:58 PM	#5
KotayKoskesh Masis Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 104	hmmmm ....if I follow what you think about dashnaks... they are the same everywhere lol __________________ Vorovhetev konn e arkayutyune yev zorutyune yev parke, havityans havitenits.

07-30-2005, 07:09 PM	#7
KotayKoskesh Masis Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 104	hehe ..same as always ..one of the nicest cities in the summer ..one of the ugliest ones in the winter ...thers alot going on right now the Jazz festival just ended like 2 weeks ago now its the Francofolies festival ..its like francophones from all over the world singing in 1 festival ..its pretty nice ..when did you last visit Montreal ? __________________ Vorovhetev konn e arkayutyune yev zorutyune yev parke, havityans havitenits.

07-31-2005, 09:59 AM	#12
KotayKoskesh Masis Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 104	hmm thx for replying and dave ill be in Armenia the 6th of august ...too bad hehe ... and dants what you say about Yegiptahye is very true alot of them are ramgavar but their kids dont even speak Armenian ( me ) ...as for what you say about tashnags who instill "fake" Armenian pride in their kids I think this is very true ... so in the end both parties have their pro's and con's I guess.. __________________ Vorovhetev konn e arkayutyune yev zorutyune yev parke, havityans havitenits.

07-30-2005, 06:47 PM	#2
TomServo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 6,166	Here in sunny California, I'd say the ARF/Dashnags are the predominant party. Yes, they're mostly Armenians from Mideast countries (Lebanon/Syria, Iraq, Iran, UAE, etc.), but I wouldn't exactly call them Muslimized...

07-30-2005, 08:02 PM	#9
Dave Savior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Great North Posts: 76	Speaking about Armenians and Montreal... There will be an Armenian Festival in Vieux-Port Aug. 6-7. Tashnags were anti-Soviet in the old days, because they wanted an independant Armenia. Now, they strongly encourage relations with countries other than Turkey and gang. There were also a lot of problems between the Cilician Catholicosate of Antilias, and the Catholicosate of Echmiadzin. Stories of pro-Echmiadzin Armenians peeing in the Antilias church and stuff... TomServo sh*tty horses are also available in Old Montreal.

07-30-2005, 10:40 PM	#10
Baron Dants Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 169	Tashnagtsutyun and Ramgavarutyun are both outdated and should be extinct (in the diaspora) gasp!. In Montreal, Ramgavars are usually people with higher education, with a large knowledge of the Armenian language and culture, but whose children are much more English-speaking, and much less involved. Tashnags usually have a less affluent background, and more xxxelers and mechanics among them...and while they speak in a sometimes downright ugly Armenian (briz, reyiz, agas, etc), they, and their kids, tend to speak Armenian most of the time. Now this can also be because Ramgavars (many Yekibdahays) have usually been established in Montreal for a longer time.. Or it can be because the Tashnags usually do a lot to instill Armenian pride among their kids, although I find that it can too often be based on heroes and Antranigs and Tros...or Lisbon 5, etc, and not always about the culture. The problem is, many of the main people in these parties have been around since the Cold War era, and have kept their own personal issues even after Armenia's independance. If these organizations adopted a non-political attitude, we could get a lot more done, in a lot less time. Many decisions are still made on whether or fact it benefits the party, and not necessarily the community, and that is the biggest shame of all.

07-31-2005, 02:46 PM	#13
Baron Dants Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 169	Yep. But in my opinion, the pros could be a lot stronger if everything were done outside of a political party mindset. What school have you gone to? Do I know you? lol

07-31-2005, 05:59 PM	#15
TomServo Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 6,166	Yeah, Sourp Hagop in Montreal. Is it a K-12th school?

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