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Reasons of our defeat

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  • Reasons of our defeat

    We lost the war:

    1/ Because we were nominally "allied with Russia", and the western world hates Russia. As long as we are the "ally" of Russia, western superpowers have not much incentive to defend our cause.

    2/ Russia never was our ally in facts, and never considered our right to statehood, or national interest since day one, when they placed their damned boots on our soil 300 years ago. Their state policy was and still is, "Armenia without the Armenians". At best vassals and mujiks, predestined for willy suicide, for the sake of "Mothr Russia"!!
    Examples are endless since 1728..... only we do not want to remember them, and thanks to their propaganda and fake history books, we portray them as our saviors.

    3/ In no way excusing our risponsability in the last 30 years of corrupt and treachery governance, let us remind, that the main orchastrator of that system was the russian KGB, we never had the will to expell from our country. Even the wildest guerilla organisation in the most retarded part of the world, established its internal security organ first of all, no matter how brutal or retarded their methods are. We, after 30 years of independance, could not have the courage to establish our state independant structure. Our internal security was left under factual KGB control from Moskwa, our highest security officials still end their career in Moskwa, their retirement is still paid by Moskwa, that is our enemy! How can a state survive in theese conditions?

    4/ Our army was 99% armed and equipped by russian arms. Or russian arms are of very low quality, have no chance against western technology. At least not till 1973 . Never russian material did win against US technology since, anywhere in the world. Even their supposedly invincible anti aircraft systems, the S 300, the Buks, the Tors, were wiped out in the first hours of the conflict, against very cheap western technologies like the turkish Bayraktars, that are only low grade NATO techs refurbished in Turkey, but all parts are US, EU, or Canadian made.....
    The russians waited our near extinction, to finally give us their most advanced radioelectronic anti uav system named Krasukha 4 !
    Krasukha (electronic warfare system) - Wikipedia
    Thanks to it we managed to down some of the Bayraktars.... but it took only 3 days, to the israyeli specialists to find its weak points and to neutralize it!
    Morality : ruusian technology is just junk against the western one. As long as we do not have access to the modern technology, we have no chance in this kind of war, with russian arms.

    5/ Our military were all trained and educated in the russian academies. Russia did all it could, to force us out of any collaboration with NATO. The structure of our army was a pale copy paste of the russian one. Or the russian one is based on its huge territorial space, huge human, financial and technical means, nuclear power.... we have none of them, and our country in no way can use the russian model. Our first Artsakh war model based on semi guerilla structure was much more adapted, than the retarded russian model established during Napoleonic wars and last refurbushed in WWII ....
    And after all, at its highest point, in the 70's, the soviet:russian army was smashed by NATO, and lost the cold war.
    Since then, there is virtually no development in russian technologies, all they present is fake or continuation of already soviet era projects...
    While corrupted russia and its army regressed, the west continued to invest and develop...
    Facts are cruel, but undeniable.
    If we do not find a way to have access to western arms, we have no chance against the turks.
    And russia, in full love affair with the turks, will in no way help us. And even, in a fantastic move wished to help us, CAN in NO WAY match the Western tech in turkish hands.

    6/ to be continued....
    Last edited by Vrej1915; 12-17-2020, 03:00 AM.

  • #2
    6/ Regardless of what Nikol is ordered to declare concerning the fake russian help during 44 days of full war as part of its obligations, Russia did not help its ally. No arms were delivered to replace the hundreds destroyed by the western uavs in turkish hands, and only some old ammunition was gived from the stockpiles of Gyumri base..... Armenia is a small country, and everything is quickly known to anyone interested, or with a basic mental capability. During those 44 days, Armenia was in full land blockade concerning arms shipments, only air deliveries could work. Or virtually no cargo flights landed in Yerevan airports during those days. Anybody living in the Ararat valley witnessed it. While the russian helicopters showed unusual training activity during the two weeks preceding the launch of the war, they virtually disseapeared from the skies during the war... and only when the capitulation was signed, unprecedented air activity was launched by the rusted Mig 29 s, with very low flights on Yerevan suburbs, with the use of afterburners and black smoke... (useless against the turkish F16), just to show us their victory and force us to respect their will, and hundreds of heavy cargo planes landed day and night, to bring as quickly possible, as much of aquipment and men for the occupation of the last enclave of Artsakh....

    7/ Back during the cold war, the US saved its allies in Western Berlin with an air bridge for months.... as an ally is supposed to behave. Russia used its capacity only to destroy its 'ally'....

    8/ To be continued...


    • #3
      Great work Vrej1915.
      I agree with you, Russia is the big enemy for armenian integration in the western world.
      But the reason for the outcoming of this war is simply that asezis paid 5 billion $ to Pashinian and the armenian elite. I mean with this amount of money he had simply no other choice, than to give away Artsakh.
      From military point of view the armenian army had the same equipment like azeris and better organization.
      But armenian politicans and generals were simply on azeris side.
      I mean its hard to resist to this amount of $$$.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Vrej1915 View Post
        We lost the war:

        1/ Because we were nominally "allied with Russia",
        You are such a geopolitics genius!
        Georgia IS NOT allied with Russia and what is your beloved West/NATO/EU are doing about Abkhazia or South Ossetis? NOTHING!
        Saakofshetvili destroyed Georgia and ate his tie, so did your beloved Pashinyan and he will eat his tie on his way out.


        • #5
          Originally posted by TIGR2000 View Post
          Great work Vrej1915.

          From military point of view the armenian army had the same equipment like azeris and better organization.
          But armenian politicans and generals were simply on azeris side.
          I mean its hard to resist to this amount of $$$.
          You have no idea what you are saying.
          The turks had full control over skies from day 1, H1, thanks to the western arsenal of NATO.
          The AWACs flying inside turkish occupied Western Armenia, coordinating turkish F 16 on Yevlakh-Ganzak-Horatiz line, and more than 20 Bayraktar type UAVs, and thousands of smaller uavs.
          We hade virtually none.
          They had 2000 pieces of artillery, versus less than 10% of that number on our side, from which 90% were destroyed in the first days, due to their air supremacy.
          Their artillary was biger, smarter, and longer range.
          More than 50% of our losses are due to cluster bombs, that is smerchs.
          The smerch rockets they were provided by Russia had a range of 90 Km.
          The ones we had, were of 50 Km.
          They had 100 times more ammunition than what we had.
          Just for your info, from the 22 Grad units (virtually useless in this war due to the range of the enemy's artillery) of one given X artillery battalion , each with a crew of 6, 15 were blown the first day of engagement, the 7 remaining next day. All due to enemy's UAVs...
          They saw each soldier or citizen walking 200 Km deep in our rear, live, with GPS coordinates, we did not see their artillery at all: reason?
          We relied on our russian allies... they gave us the enemy artillery coordinates previously thanks to their satellites (not as effective as the uav's), and that was the reason our artillery was so brillant in 2016... and this time they refused to give us any coordinates!
          They had T 90s, that is 2010 , we had T72s, dating 1980....
          Our tanks were wiped due to their air supperiority...
          Their tanks were destroyed mainly due o the senseless courage of our infantrymen...
          We did not invest in an air force for 26 years, since there was Russia, supposedly doing the job...
          We ordered and paid for 12 Su 30 SM, from which we received only 4, with no adequate ammunition, neither trained pilots....

          Our soldiers were the best in the world.
          Our people was amazingly dedicated.
          Says so anybody having an idea of what he speaks.

          Our leadership was xxxx.
          Our HQ was xxxx for two main reasons: russian education + sabotage from an undercover center on every level....
          It remains to uncover if that center was Yerevan based or Moskwa based....

          And last, if Pashinian was paid 5 billion, how much was paid putinka?
          Hope not less, since hard to imagine the main orchestrator accepting receiving less than the clown he teleguided!


          • #6
            Originally posted by Azad View Post

            You are such a geopolitics genius!
            Georgia IS NOT allied with Russia and what is your beloved West/NATO/EU are doing about Abkhazia or South Ossetis? NOTHING!
            Saakofshetvili destroyed Georgia and ate his tie, so did your beloved Pashinyan and he will eat his tie on his way out.

            Georgia lost less than 10% of what we just lost being russia's ally, genious of all times...
            Abkhazia was 90% lost already, and Ossetia was lost 85% before anything started.
            What the West did for Georgia compared to wat putinka does for us?
            The russian army was in the suburbs of Tiflis, they evacuated avery inch to Tskhinval.
            The Russians had captured Poti, who forced them out to Gali?
            Georgia is no more under russian control, and lost less than 500 men...
            We lost 10 times more, and a third of our motherland, not a region of an ethnic minority we were granted first hand by russians, as was the case with Georgia...
            Plus Georgia managed to 'keep' 3 other regions who were out of their central control, before Saakashvili came to power, thanks to the West...

            I'm not a partisan of Saakashvili the moron, but if you compare what the west gave georgia to what putinka gave to us, you must be as genious as you, to not see the difference...


            • #7
              1. Armenia had +/- the same equipment like azeris, but azeris have +/- the double amount. (The artillery quantity was more 1:2 and not 1:10)
              But armenian army is better organized.
              2. The turkish UAVs arent really a problem for anti-air defence because they are very slow.
              3. Controll of skies means nothing, because of antiair-defence. Airforce was no factor in this war.
              4. If you have less money its better to invest in anti air defence, then airforce.
              5. Armenia doesnt really use their s300, tors and buks.
              They gave them simply away.
              6. You got it, the problem was the leadership....and azeri $$$...
              Why do you think azeri didnt won a meter of Artsakh before Pashinian ?


              • #8

                I mean the outcoming of this "war" was clear from the start on....
                They gave Susha away without a fight, they gave away all the other regions around Artsakh without s fight...


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Vrej1915 View Post

                  Georgia lost less than 10% of what we just lost being russia's ally, genious of all times...
                  Playing stupid is intentional? Georgia lost % of their internationally recognized territories (British dividing maps). Armenia lost 0 from our internationally recognized territories.
                  The best thing we Armenians can do and should have done with ALL of Artsakh before the war had issued dual citizenship Armenian and Russian and be a protectorate of Russia. No different from the Brits with their British territories. And let us see who will take over Armenia. Stupid Armenians that live all around the planet holding others nationalities yet they get upset when you tell them anything in that line to protect our existence.


                  • #10
                    They were also rumors that Pashinian gave Artsakh away to improve relationships with turkey and for a small chance of NATO integration (turkey and azeris are big us allies, so Armenia had to pay their price)
                    But i believe more simply to the 5 billion $$$ offer.