Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

[Armenian]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

Russia is leaving the caucasus. Who is going to be the ally of Armenia in the region when Azeris in Iran dump Armenia??? The only strategy is to work together with Turkey and bring down the Pan Turks in Iran. Persians would be your ally then.

What an asswipe!

[oslonor]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

Geography is geography. Somehow certain people don't like staying in the land that spawned them and like going around uprooting other nations.
Good joke. Although I suppose it could be worse.
Yes. It can be solved peacefully with Azerbaijan giving up all territorial claims on the land.

Russia is leaving the caucasus. Who is going to be the ally of Armenia in the region when Azeris in Iran dump Armenia??? The only strategy is to work together with Turkey and bring down the Pan Turks in Iran. Persians would be your ally then.

[Armanen]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

These "real persians" you talk about are nuts. Hitler, Iran and Armenia in the same camp. This would be the axis of the unbelievable!

You're the only "nutty" one here, go spread your filth elsewhere.

[skhara]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

You folks are very unlucky with geography

Geography is geography. Somehow certain people don't like staying in the land that spawned them and like going around uprooting other nations.

but very lucky with today's geopolitics.

Good joke. Although I suppose it could be worse.

Having said all that, any of you think the Qarabaq issue can be solved peacefully?

Yes. It can be solved peacefully with Azerbaijan giving up all territorial claims on the land.

[oslonor]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

Persians and Azeri Turks look almost exactly the same. It would be very difficult to tell us apart. I have many Azari relatives ... their complexion is a little lighter than ours, but that is also a geographic factor. Persians from the most Persian city, Shiraz, are a little darker than Persians from the Caspian Sea coast, for example.

Do Azeris look like "Persians"?

Azeris claim that they look like Persians and it is not possible to tell the difference between an Azeri and a "Persian".

The reality is something very different. Firstly "Persians" are not a homogenous group. Persians in Iran have different origin. Some are related to the civilization in Mesopotemia. Some Persians are related to local civilizations such as Elam, Kashan, Jiroft etc. Some Persians have Aryan origin such as Parthian, Bactrian, Sogdian and Original Persians in Pars province and Khorasan. The persians with Aryan origin is only about %10 of the population. But all these persians share common culture, Zoarastrian religion, Persian language, Persian history and civilization and even to some extent ethnicity with each other. Persians are also closely related to Baluchs and Kurds.

Azeris claim they look like "Persians" and point to Tehran as a "Persian City" where both Azeris and Persians live. Also Azeri Turks claim there is a lot of inter-marriage between Persians and Azeri Turks in Tehran and also Azeri Turks are astonished to see some people speak Azeri language in Tehran.

The reality is something entirely different. %70-%80 of Tehran are Azeri Turks. There is a lot of inter-marriage between Azeri Turks and other Azeri Turks in Tehran and also Azeri Turks are very similar to other Azeri Turks. Some Azeri Turks claim they are "Persians" and some admit that they are Azeri Turks. So it gives the impression that Azeri Turks look like "Persians".

Azeri Turks mostly hide their origin and state Persian cities as their origin. Azeri turks claim they are from Mashhad, Shiraz, Caspian Region or they are Lurs. For an outsider who does not even know how a Persian look like, it is very easy to believe Azeri Turks look like Persians.

Also the Azeri Turk regime inTehran tries to confuse people about Azeri identity and phenotypes. The Azeri turk regime strongly promotes Gogoosh, a Persian singer, as a "typical azeri turk". Gogoosh is an ethnic persian whose family has lived in Caucasus and that is why she can speak Azeri language. But she has always stressed in all her interviews that she is not Azeri but ethnically a Persian. After receiving bags of money from the regime, she has changed her view and now Gogoosh claims she is Azeri Turk.!!!!

Strangely the other "Azeri Turk" promoted by regime is Farah Pahlavi, the Shah's wife. Although the Shah himself was related to Azeris, Farah Pahlavi is an ethnic Persian from Mazandaran province in the caspian region. Farah Pahlavi has a typical persian phenotype, speaks with a Persian accent and not an Azeri Turk accent, and displays a Persian culture in her speech and manners. Even if Azeris may change their face with plastic surgery and learn to speak Persian with a Persian accent, to change the culture and manner of speech related to Persians is an impossibility for Azeri Turks as Persian Culture can not be learned in 6 months even if somebody can learn American culture in 6 months. It takes thousands of years to learn Persian culture and it is a barrier that can not be overcome by Azeri Turks.
Persians consider Gilani and Mazandarani as Persians. They are a sub-division within Persians similar to Lurs, Bakhtiarys etc.

This is what Azeri Turks say about Gilani and Mazandarani:

"The Mazandarani and Gilaki groups fall inside a major cluster consisting of populations from the Caucasus and West Asia and are particularly close to the South Caucasus groups—Georgians, Armenians, and Azerbaijanians"

In other words, they claim Mazandarani and Gilani as subgroups of Azeri Turks. Add to that Azeri Turks even claim that Armenians are Azeri Turks!!!!!

[oslonor]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

The key word there is "as far as you know" because you don't seem to know much. Azeri Turks and Persians have been integrated and intertwined for 500 years. Read The Cambridge History of Iran, or Roger Savoy's Iran under the Safavids. They go to length to describe how the Safavid Shahs, starting from Shah Ismail, worked to integrate the Turks and the Persians (called Tadjiks back then).

First of all Tajik is a term used to signify a turk who is speaking Persian language. So much for the Cambridge History!!!

Recently from Hollywood to so called "Academic Research" have been involved to help Azeri Turks to get an "Iranian History" for Azeri Turks by presenting them as natives to Iran. They have never been natives to Iran and they are as alien to Iran as before similar to arab invadors.

Afghans have done research on Azeri Turks which is presented on Afghan forums that shows Azeri turks and Persians being the biggest enemies in Iran and they are still today. My wife is a native of Persia and she does not know anything about this "integration". Azeri Turks live in Azerbaijan and 70-80% Tehran are Azeri Turks. Persians live remotely far from Azeri Turks in other provinces.

The Safavids did end in 1722, by the conquering Afghans. But the Qajars, another Turkic Qizilbash clan came to power in 1795. The Qajars worked hard to emulate the Safavid; their dynasty was a indirect continuation of the Safavi dysnasty. These Qajar Shahs also had Turkish as their mother tongue, but it would be hard to define them an anything other than Iranian.

Actually Zand Lur dyansty and Nader Shah (A Turkoman and not Azeri Turk) succeeded Saffavids. We regard Turkomans as natives of Iran even they speak Turkish language. Most of Nader Shah army was actually Afghans and he had nothing to do with Azeri Turks.

[skhara]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pp-YzLNH4qs


This video was made by a true Persian, not the rat that is masquerading as one.

Very amusing. I especially liked the clip from "The Barbarians are comming" where vikings were slaughtering French monks.

[Armanen]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pp-YzLNH4qs

This video was made by a true Persian, not the rat that is masquerading as one.

[oslonor]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

Can't the moderators track his IP and ban the Turk?

Very good idea. To Moderator: Could you please inform these people that Oslonor is not the same as SattarKhan. We are probably in entirely different continents.

Secondly Armenian on the Armenian Hyestan forum in Armenia has welcomed me very warmly. I do not understand the reason for your attitude here. The forum is in Russian.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Is Iran Developing an Azeri Problem?

Thanks for the link, but your last "empire" was in 1375, basically under Byzantine protection and in the Southern Mediterranean .... and you claim Qarabaq as yours????? What a joke?

First of all, Cilician Armenia was not under Byzantine protection, it actually gained its full independence by driving the Byzantine garrisons out of the region under the leadership of Ruben I. Also, for centuries the Byzantines wanted Armenians to convert to Greek orthodoxy before they sent any military support to them, and Armenians never caved into their demands, which is why Cilician Armenia finally fell to the Egyptian Mameluks (which was not their only enemy, mind you).

And smart guy, even after Cilician Armenia fell, Karabagh was an independent principality enjoying full autonomy until the 16th century. And even after it lost its autonomy to the Safavid Persians, they still rose in arms and successfully defeated the Persian garrison and the invading Ottomans on more than one occasion, but the most famous instance of this involved an Armenian prince from Karabagh named David Bek, who led the Armenian forces to a string of successful victories while being hopelessly outnumbered. And also, during these centuries, Armenian nationalist sentiments were strongest in the region of Karabagh, where another Armenian prince of Karabagh named Israel Ori travelled throughout Europe to gain European support of Armenia's independence from Safavid and Ottoman Empires (with the full knowledge of Armenian rulers and ecclesiastic elite of Safavid Armenia). He began his journey around 1680, travelling throughout Austria, Germany, Italian city-states, France (where he became an officer in their army in order to gain military knowledge for a future Armenian independence movement), and Russia (where he was also deeply involved in their political and military spheres), and where he finally died in the early 18th century at the Caspian port city of Astrakhan.

In the following centuries, Karabagh was an autonomous region within the Russian Empire.


And in case you have amnesia (or are just talking out of your ass, as I suspect), throughout the entirety of the Soviet Union, Karabagh was still an autonomous region with a clear Armenian majority, which answered directly to Moscow, not to Baku. Their seccession was also fully legal, as Soviet law drafted in the early 1990's states that any Soviet autonomous region can break away either from the Soviet Union itself, or from a republic which declares its independence from the Soviet Union (in this case, Azerbaijan).


And it seems your 'evaluation' of Persian attitude towards Armenians is just as misguided as your knowledge of Armenian history. Every Persian I have met not only has nothing but good things to say about Armenians, most of them have close friends that are Armenian.