An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

[levon]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

You continue to generalize Turks like mad, I have no agenda, yet you're obsessed with me having one because you're so deluded that the idea of someone who is not an Armenian showing some level of respect for Armenians offends you in some way? What's wrong with you, do you not think there are already Turks and Armenians who are friends? Do you honestly believe every single Turk living today denies the Armenian holocaust or in some way had something to do with it?



The problem is levon was attacking all Turks, and generalizing. The idea of there being any individuality amongst Turks is foreign to his racist mind.

Mr. Azar. You have just shown how incredibly skilled you are at the art of creating an argument. Unfortunately, it involves dodging actual questions and attacking the other person with demeaning character assassinations, which is a great propaganda tactic (ironically, similar tactics were used by the Nazis), but is not conducive to the actual discussion.

Your otherwise calm demeanor throughout much of your posts has suddenly changed to an incredibly hostile one the moment I posted something negative about Turks, suggesting, at the very least, that you have some very dear sympathies tied to Turks.

Please refrain from insults. If you will not be posting actual responses, keep your insults to yourself.

[levon]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

It's not really a tough stand, but rather a logical one.

It's important to distinguish friendship between individuals and friendship between countries. An Armenian and a Turk can be friends, as individuals are often able to look past ethnic and country lines and see each other as people, and as a result there isn't as much risk introduced by placing some blind trust onto the other person.

This scenario entirely changes when one talks about friendship between large groups of people. Groups of people are often very susceptible to propaganda and herd behavior making it much more risky to trust them. Friendship between countries is like friendship between two very large groups of people. It is usually incredibly tricky, and trust is never actually given, only declared. What we must remember is that no matter what, Turkey as a country will always place its interests above Armenia, even if individual Turks may do the opposite. This means, Armenia can never trust Turkey and thus, there can be no friendship between Armenians and Turks.

Blurring the distinction between friendship between two people and friendship between countries is a recurrent theme used by Turkish propaganda in an attempt to create "good diaspora Armenians", which just means Armenians that won't oppose further Turkish attempts at Genocide Denial. It always involves establishing the fact that individual Turks and Armenians can put their pasts behind them and become friends and encourages the generalization that Armenians and Turks can be friends. This is an attempt to get Armenians to drop their guard and give room for more Turkish propaganda to come in.

Given the way Azar has been conducting himself in this forum, I'm tempted to draw some similarities between his rhetoric and that of the Turkish propaganda machine; thus, I think it's a very reasonable request to have him explain his intentions.

[Azar]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

Firstly, there can be no friendship without knowing at least the important points of each others histories. That being said, a group that identifies itself as Young-Turks is either extremely ignorant or knows the history behind the term and uses it with the same implications in mind. In either case, no Armenian can be friends with those people.

Second of all. I remember your saying that you are an Iranian Azeri with no connections to Turks whatsoever. What do you care of the Armenian-Turkey friendship.

Thirdly, telling someone to grow up in an attempt to evade a question is usually a good indication of hidden motives.

Finally, there can be no friendship between Armenians and Turks. You need to understand what friendship means, and I don't mean the ultra-tolerant-liberal version that encourages forgive and forget. If history has taught anything to us Armenians is that we should actually look at our past to shape our future decisions. Turks have proved again and again that they cannot be trusted, and without trust there can be no friendship. However, friendship is not necessary for business, or other ventures.

And, I'm still waiting to see what your agenda is here. Promoting iranian-azeris? Promoting Turkey-Armenia friendships? What is it, and how does it benefit Armenia and the Armenian communities in the diaspora? What is it?

You continue to generalize Turks like mad, I have no agenda, yet you're obsessed with me having one because you're so deluded that the idea of someone who is not an Armenian showing some level of respect for Armenians offends you in some way? What's wrong with you, do you not think there are already Turks and Armenians who are friends? Do you honestly believe every single Turk living today denies the Armenian holocaust or in some way had something to do with it?

It's hard to be friends with someone who denies the Armenian genocide. I think if a Turk admitted to it, it would be a good start for making friendship possible with that individual.

Of course, there are more things one can talk about with a friend and share in common with, than just the issue of the AG, so I understand those things are being sacrificed by this tough stance... But I think it's important for Armenians who care about keeping the issue alive, and not letting it be erased by "friendliness".

The problem is levon was attacking all Turks, and generalizing. The idea of there being any individuality amongst Turks is foreign to his racist mind.

[jgk3]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

It's hard to be friends with someone who denies the Armenian genocide. I think if a Turk admitted to it, it would be a good start for making friendship possible with that individual.

Of course, there are more things one can talk about with a friend and share in common with, than just the issue of the AG, so I understand those things are being sacrificed by this tough stance... But I think it's important for Armenians who care about keeping the issue alive, and not letting it be erased by "friendliness".

[levon]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

It means not generalizing all Turks like this and going to the point of saying that there should be no friendship between Armenians and Turks.

Firstly, there can be no friendship without knowing at least the important points of each others histories. That being said, a group that identifies itself as Young-Turks is either extremely ignorant or knows the history behind the term and uses it with the same implications in mind. In either case, no Armenian can be friends with those people.

Second of all. I remember your saying that you are an Iranian Azeri with no connections to Turks whatsoever. What do you care of the Armenian-Turkey friendship.

Thirdly, telling someone to grow up in an attempt to evade a question is usually a good indication of hidden motives.

Finally, there can be no friendship between Armenians and Turks. You need to understand what friendship means, and I don't mean the ultra-tolerant-liberal version that encourages forgive and forget. If history has taught anything to us Armenians is that we should actually look at our past to shape our future decisions. Turks have proved again and again that they cannot be trusted, and without trust there can be no friendship. However, friendship is not necessary for business, or other ventures.

And, I'm still waiting to see what your agenda is here. Promoting iranian-azeris? Promoting Turkey-Armenia friendships? What is it, and how does it benefit Armenia and the Armenian communities in the diaspora? What is it?

[Azar]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

Azar, what does "growing up" mean to you? Does it mean adopting liberal attitudes?

It means not generalizing all Turks like this and going to the point of saying that there should be no friendship between Armenians and Turks.

[jgk3]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

Azar, what does "growing up" mean to you? Does it mean adopting liberal attitudes?

[Azar]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

If you can't explain your intentions, then please, refrain from demeaning replies such as the one above.
Now, I ask again. Explain your intentions.

Young Turks? WTF. F&ck turks. There is no friendship with enemies.

Grow up.

[levon]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

Grow up.

If you can't explain your intentions, then please, refrain from demeaning replies such as the one above.
Now, I ask again. Explain your intentions.

[Azar]

Re: An example of Armenian-Turkish friendship

Young Turks? WTF. F&ck turks. There is no friendship with enemies. Cooperation, maybe? Business, maybe? Friendship, f&ck no. What's your agenda here, azar? Turkish propaganda to get the diaspora Armenians more sympathetic with Turkey? If, not, then please explain, because you first come here and start promoting the azeris in Iran as an iranian group not to be confused with turks, then you post this? So, we should read what you have to say because, "obviously" it wouldn't be in your agenda to start slowly pushing the "armenian-turkish" friendship bullsh!t. Please, explain, I'm interested.

Grow up.