Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Good article recalling Genocide Denial---Sounds familiar

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Good article recalling Genocide Denial---Sounds familiar

    Providence Journal, RI
    Dec 31 2006

    Horrors of the Holocaust bring Jews closer to their faith

    01:00 AM EST on Sunday, December 31, 2006


    He told me that the columns I'd written about Auschwitz and Dachau
    had moved him deeply. `What happened in those places was a horror
    show,' he said. Then he added this:

    `But the whole idea of gas chambers, a lot of that was just myth.'

    ----He went on: `Many of the claims surrounding the camps are just
    atrocity propaganda.'------

    I don't often write a series of three columns on the same subject,
    but in this case, I was drawn to explore it one more time.

    Two weeks ago, the Holocaust deniers' conference in Iran prompted me
    to revisit the words of camp survivors I'd interviewed over the
    years. After that article appeared, I heard from an aging Catholic GI
    who had helped liberate Dachau, so last week, I told his story.

    Those columns brought several phone messages from people questioning
    the Holocaust. One such caller went on for almost 10 minutes.

    I'll tell you what left me most surprised about him. You expect such
    people to be angry and less educated. But he was respectful, measured
    and articulate. He signed off by saying, `I've always liked your
    column, and I thank you for your time. I hope you have happy holidays
    and God bless.'

    He did not leave a name, but I'd like to have a conversation with him
    today. Let me begin with some of what he told me.

    `In Europe,' he said, `you can insult Muslims, insult Christians, but
    if you question one iota of the Holocaust, you're subject to censure,
    fines and imprisonment. You're a heretic questioning holy writ, and
    that's a thought-stopping smear.'

    He went on: `I can't imagine the horror that went on in those places.
    But the living in Germany today should not be unfairly demonized for
    things that may or may not have happened.'

    He talked about the deaths.

    `Did millions of Jews die in the camps? Most certainly, and in a
    gruesome fashion.' But he said it wasn't intentional - these were
    meant to be work camps. Many, if not most, of the deaths, he said,
    were from starvation after allies bombed rail-lines. `The food just
    ran out when trains couldn't get to the camps anymore.'

    Typhus, he added, caused many camp deaths, and he said that the real
    function of any gas chambers were not to kill prisoners, but to kill
    the typhus. The infamous Zyklon-B gas used at places like Auschwitz,
    he said, was a known pesticide.

    Finally, he said he didn't care much about Middle East politics, but
    claimed that Holocaust `exaggerations' have long been used to keep
    anyone from questioning Israel in any way.

    `What happened wasn't right,' he concluded. `It just wasn't as
    malevolent as people claim it was.'

    How to respond?

    Let me start by saying he got me thinking about laws in Germany and
    other countries that make Holocaust denial a crime. On the one hand,
    such speech can incite anti-Semitic extremists, in the same way that
    radical Muslim clerics can incite terrorism. But I can see how
    imprisoning Holocaust questioners could backfire by punishing
    controversial ideas.

    As for the rest of what he said, well, for starters, Zyklon-B was
    indeed a pesticide, but even Nazi officials have testified its
    cyanide component made it effective for mass killing in gas chambers.
    And there are libraries of evidence showing that Hitler planned and
    implemented a `final solution' of the `Jewish problem.' Frankly,
    `proving' the Holocaust is as easy as talking to survivors with
    tattooed numbers on their arms.

    So with the little space I have left, I'd like to address a question
    that I think is more central.

    Why do people bother to question the Holocaust? In the Arab world and
    elsewhere, it seems to be a suspicion that Jews obsess on the death
    camps to gain sympathy for Israel.

    I don't think that's true. Partly, it's the same reason people
    `obsess' about, oh, events ranging from the Civil War to 9/11 - these
    are important parts of history with cautionary lessons for today.

    But there's an even deeper reason Jews focus on the Holocaust that
    few understand.

    Although it happened less than 70 years ago, many Jews have begun to
    see it as their faith's version of the Crucifixion. A thousand years
    from now, if Jews survive, it will likely remain that sacred.

    Why focus on something so sad as a centerpiece of identity?

    You could ask the same question of Christians: Why focus on Christ's
    terrible death? Much of it, of course, is the theology that He died
    for people's sins. But I've come to realize that every people finds
    it important, even shaping, to remember and honor the deepest
    suffering of their kind.

    ----I once wrote an almost too-graphic column about the horrible things
    done to Armenians when more than a million were killed in a genocide
    by Turks from 1915 to 1917. I wondered if Armenian readers would
    chide me for being so grisly in print. Instead, I heard from scores
    who thanked me for remembering. Curiously, they were grateful that I
    mentioned the most horrible details. ----

    Why? Because such ancestral suffering is central to them.

    As the Crucifixion is for Christians.

    And the Holocaust for Jews.

    It's not political. It's a matter of the soul.

    And so, to my caller, I thank you for your time, and hope this
    holiday season will bring you peace.
    General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”
Working...
X