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Turkey invades Iraq...

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  • Turkey invades Iraq...

    So has "it" begun? Aparently so...

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...rss_topstories
    Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?
    Adolf Hitler (22 August 1939)

  • #2
    Originally posted by 1.5 million View Post
    We'll see how "limited" this incursion really is. If the Iraqi Kurds get drawn into it, I hope they give the Turks a good fight.
    General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

    Comment


    • #3
      They were allready there heheh!
      This way no one has to lie about no troops crossing over the border at this time.
      "All truth passes through three stages:
      First, it is ridiculed;
      Second, it is violently opposed; and
      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

      Comment


      • #4
        Military buffering the Iraqi border
        Friday, June 8, 2007

        Military buffering the Iraqi border

        Turkish military officials decide to create interim security zones in three provinces bordering Iraq, calling it a routine practice without clarifying what the measure really means

        FULYA ÖZERKAN
        ANKARA - Turkish Daily News

        The General Staff on Wednesday declared three provinces in southeastern Turkey to be interim security zones as attacks by the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in Turkey are escalating.

        The measure amounts to a boost in operations by the Turkish military from June 9 to September 9 in order to stop terrorist attacks in the security zones in Siirt, Hakkari and Şırnak.

        Military officials described the measure as a routine practice aimed at preventing PKK attacks, which tend to increase in spring when snow on the northern Iraqi mountains, where the PKK terrorists are based, melts.

        But the military did not clarify what establishing the interim security zones means in practice. Speaking with the Turkish Daily News, experts said that the Turkish military would create a so-called “buffer-zone” on the Iraqi border.

        “If you take a look at the given coordinates of the security zones, you will see that they are located along the Iraqi border, so it would not be wrong if we say that a buffer-zone is being created on the border near Iraq,” Sedat Laçiner, head of the Ankara-based International Strategic Research Organization (ISRO/USAK), told the TDN.

        He said the Turkish Armed Forces were now in the phase of creating a deep (15 kilometer) and long (up to 120 kilometers) buffer zone on the two sides of the Iraqi border to prevent PKK terrorists from infiltrating into the country.

        “It is not possible to launch such operations all along the border where local Iraqi peshmergas are already based. So far, the Turkish military has carried out maneuvers in the context of shelling, F-16 jets surveillance and hot pursuit to chase terrorists. There will be an increase in the number of operations in the coming days,” he added.

        Two of the interim security zones, Şırnak and Hakkari, border northern Iraq, while Siirt is further north from the border. But all three provinces share a common characteristic of being a scene of clashes between the Turkish security forces and PKK terrorists. The zones have been created under the Turkish Military and Forbidden Security Area Law No. 2565 at the request of the General Staff and at the approval of the Cabinet. In a televised interview on late Wednesday, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said that the military declared numerous areas to be security zones with the government's authorization. Asked if the zones will be expanded in the near future, Erdoğan said that the situation was not an emergency, but also implied at an increase in military buildup in the areas bordering Iraq.



        NOTAM comes after May 24 infringement

        Armağan Kuloğlu, chief advisor for the Ankara-based Global Strategy Institute, said that the fact that the zones would remain in place for three months was a long time, indicating that the military is expected to launch big operations to fight the PKK.

        “This is crystal clear. The military is very determined in the fight against terrorism,” he told the TDN. Explaining further, Kuloğlu said the military initiative to declare security zones meant to be a “Notice to Airmen” (NOTAM) activity aimed at preventing any civilian access to certain areas. In dictionary meaning, NOTAM or NoTAM is described as the quasi-acronym for a “Notice to Airmen.” A NOTAM is filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of any hazards en route to or at a specific location. The authority in turn provides means of disseminating relevant NOTAMs to pilots. Again, according to dictionaries, NOTAMs are issued and reported for a number of reasons such as: dangers including air-shows and parachute flights by prominent people, closed runways, inoperable radio navigational aids and military exercises with resulting airspace restrictions.

        Observers draw attention to the timing of the NOTAM activity on the part of the Turkish military that follows airspace violations by two U.S. F-16 jets on May 24, which some Turkish media described as a deliberate attempt at intimidation at a time when Ankara was discussing a possible cross-border operation into northern Iraq to crush the PKK camps.

        Talabani, Barzani warn Ankara In the meantime, Iraqi Kurdish leaders Jalal Talabani and Massoud Barzani repeated opposition yesterday to a possible Turkish military incursion into northern Iraq, saying that such an operation would be considered to target entire Iraq. Barzani, speaking to reporters following a meeting with Talabani in northern Iraqi city of Salahaddin, said that a possible operation would target not only the Kurdish region but also Iraq's independence and sovereignty. Talabani said that Iraq would staunchly stand against any external intervention.

        "Quite an inventive use of F-16s, for surveillance."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 1.5 million View Post
          Looks like it was/is basically limited at this point. All of us know that at somepoint Turkey really will invade Kurdistan. I hope the Kurds keep building their defenses and make ready for the invasion.
          General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by steph View Post
            Military buffering the Iraqi border
            Friday, June 8, 2007

            Military buffering the Iraqi border

            Turkish military officials decide to create interim security zones in three provinces bordering Iraq, calling it a routine practice without clarifying what the measure really means
            How many nations create "buffer zones" within other soveriegn states that would fall under the mantle of "routine practice" ...perhaps for this Turks this is routine...however I seem to recall another state for which such deployments/occupations were "routine practice" - think the Sudetenland and the Baltics...Bagdad itself must be looking particularly close at the moment...and certainly Mosul...

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            FULYA ÖZERKAN
            ANKARA - Turkish Daily News

            The General Staff on Wednesday declared three provinces in southeastern Turkey to be interim security zones as attacks by the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in Turkey are escalating.
            Funny how the Turks have gotten so used to making claims with no backing/evidence that for them it is "routine practice"

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            The measure amounts to a boost in operations by the Turkish military from June 9 to September 9 in order to stop terrorist attacks in the security zones in Siirt, Hakkari and Şırnak.

            Military officials described the measure as a routine practice aimed at preventing PKK attacks, which tend to increase in spring when snow on the northern Iraqi mountains, where the PKK terrorists are based, melts.
            Much as Armenians were once considered as "potential threats" and thus had to be dealt with in the only manner in which the Turkish State apparently knows how

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            But the military did not clarify what establishing the interim security zones means in practice. Speaking with the Turkish Daily News, experts said that the Turkish military would create a so-called “buffer-zone” on the Iraqi border.
            "we need breathing room!"

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            “If you take a look at the given coordinates of the security zones, you will see that they are located along the Iraqi border, so it would not be wrong if we say that a buffer-zone is being created on the border near Iraq,” Sedat Laçiner, head of the Ankara-based International Strategic Research Organization (ISRO/USAK), told the TDN.
            Sedat Lachiner - now just where have we heard this name (out of the past?)...in fact I know of someone (many years ago) who "outed" this guy as an official Turkish government agent when he was posing as a common (but very comited/determined) Turksih denier of the Armenian Genocide.

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            He said the Turkish Armed Forces were now in the phase of creating a deep (15 kilometer) and long (up to 120 kilometers) buffer zone on the two sides of the Iraqi border to prevent PKK terrorists from infiltrating into the country.
            Perhaps they ought to follow some recent examples and build a fence/wall...lol

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            “It is not possible to launch such operations all along the border where local Iraqi peshmergas are already based.
            Interesting comment...BTW just what sort of "operations" are considered part of creating a "buffer zone"? I don't suppose they have been importing Agent Orange or anything have they?

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            So far, the Turkish military has carried out maneuvers in the context of shelling, F-16 jets surveillance and hot pursuit to chase terrorists. There will be an increase in the number of operations in the coming days,” he added.
            Yes we shall be watching.

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            Two of the interim security zones, Şırnak and Hakkari, border northern Iraq, while Siirt is further north from the border. But all three provinces share a common characteristic of being a scene of clashes between the Turkish security forces and PKK terrorists. The zones have been created under the Turkish Military and Forbidden Security Area Law No. 2565 at the request of the General Staff and at the approval of the Cabinet. In a televised interview on late Wednesday, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said that the military declared numerous areas to be security zones with the government's authorization. Asked if the zones will be expanded in the near future, Erdoğan said that the situation was not an emergency, but also implied at an increase in military buildup in the areas bordering Iraq.
            Increase in military buildup...Turkish hawks grwo restless...and officers have been lacking oppurtunity for aquiring medals it seems...



            Originally posted by steph View Post
            NOTAM comes after May 24 infringement

            Armağan Kuloğlu, chief advisor for the Ankara-based Global Strategy Institute, said that the fact that the zones would remain in place for three months was a long time, indicating that the military is expected to launch big operations to fight the PKK.
            "Big Operations" - always part of "buffer zone" activities I imagine (historically at least...yeah we've seen some "Big Operations" in history in this regard haven't we?

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            “This is crystal clear.
            Crystal.

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            The military is very determined in the fight against terrorism,” he told the TDN. Explaining further, Kuloğlu said the military initiative to declare security zones meant to be a “Notice to Airmen” (NOTAM) activity aimed at preventing any civilian access to certain areas. In dictionary meaning, NOTAM or NoTAM is described as the quasi-acronym for a “Notice to Airmen.” A NOTAM is filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of any hazards en route to or at a specific location. The authority in turn provides means of disseminating relevant NOTAMs to pilots. Again, according to dictionaries, NOTAMs are issued and reported for a number of reasons such as: dangers including air-shows and parachute flights by prominent people, closed runways, inoperable radio navigational aids and military exercises with resulting airspace restrictions.
            They are certainly determined. And they daon't want anyone watching too closely what they are actually up to.

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            Observers draw attention to the timing of the NOTAM activity on the part of the Turkish military that follows airspace violations by two U.S. F-16 jets on May 24, which some Turkish media described as a deliberate attempt at intimidation at a time when Ankara was discussing a possible cross-border operation into northern Iraq to crush the PKK camps.
            I thought the US was Turkey's ally - with a major airbase in that nation - so "Airspace violations" - well that just does not compute. And for the purposes of "intimidation" - much as an attempt by Armenian villagers to defend themselves from utter annhialation and devestation can be deemed "rebellion" I guess...

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            Talabani, Barzani warn Ankara In the meantime, Iraqi Kurdish leaders Jalal Talabani and Massoud Barzani repeated opposition yesterday to a possible Turkish military incursion into northern Iraq, saying that such an operation would be considered to target entire Iraq.
            Well Turkish military forces are crossing the border (and apparently without permission from Iraq)...and they complain of "airspace violations" - ha!

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            Barzani, speaking to reporters following a meeting with Talabani in northern Iraqi city of Salahaddin, said that a possible operation would target not only the Kurdish region but also Iraq's independence and sovereignty. Talabani said that Iraq would staunchly stand against any external intervention.
            And the US? (protector of Iraq, its government and constitution [which I suppose has some clause about the borders/territory of what constitutes the nation) And the UN? ...enough said...

            Originally posted by steph View Post
            "Quite an inventive use of F-16s, for surveillance."
            Turkish F-16s have been equipped with all weather (through the clouds) day/night high altitude surveillance systems (LANTRIN) - they also have Forward looking infared for targetting - and terrain following radar - all very advanced and good for surveillance (not sure how much of this capability is currently in Turkey's inventory - but you can believe it is on the way if not installed already...) - (as well as prescision attack of course). And you want to know why many US Defense contractors reamain firmly in the support Turkey no questions asked/no ugly historical issues brought up category? Well think recent $600 million contract to upgrade f-16s with plans to spend $13 Billion - yup...that pays for and justifys) lots of lobbying on Turkey's behalf...
            Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?
            Adolf Hitler (22 August 1939)

            Comment


            • #7
              What would be the US reaction to any planned Iranian incursions into Northern Iraq to chase their resident Kurds?
              Need I ask?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by steph View Post
                What would be the US reaction to any planned Iranian incursions into Northern Iraq to chase their resident Kurds?
                Need I ask?
                They would react by striking Iran. Its a double standard. They'll placate the Turks but attack Iran.
                General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  http://www.panarmenian.net/details/eng/?nid=767

                  Turkey considers the fight with the Kurds, even on someone else's territory to be the country's home policy


                  What is going on now is just another try to suppress the Kurdish movement for the independent Kurdistan.
                  12.06.2007 GMT+04:00
                  In spite of numerous calls from Washington, the Turkish army launched military operation at the border of North Iraq, bombarding severely Kurdish villages. The missiles naturally fall to the Iraqi territory too; however this doesn't bother Turkey which has decided to once and for all put an end to Kurdistan Workers Party.
                  /PanARMENIAN.Net/ In the announcement made by the Turkish General Staff it was noted that “Turkish armed forces are very decisive in the fight with terrorism and their response to the act of violence will be quite adequate. They expect the Turkish Nation to display mass reaction in answer to the terrorist acts.” That was published on the following day when the General Staff spoke about the “provisional security area” on the south-east of Turkey, on the border with Iraq. It will function in Shirnak, Khakiari and Siirt provinces from June 9 to September 9, where the Turkish Army stirred up operations against the Kurdish separatist troops.

                  The confrontation started long ago, during the times of Abdul Hammed, when the regiments “Hamadi” participating in the Armenian massacres were established. In 1915 the Kurds participating in the Armenian massacres were promised to be settled in the Armenian villages. Yet this promise was never kept. The first Kurdish revolt against Turkey was registered in 1919 in Dersin province. Later on there were some others in 1922-23. By 1971 these uprisings were of sporadic character, unless Kurdistan Workers Party was established. It should be mentioned that the party was the first Kurdish unexpected formation whose danger Turkey felt immediately and started a long and bloody battle against it, though achieved no particular success. What is going on now is just another try to suppress the Kurdish movement for the independent Kurdistan. But on the territory of North Iraq there already exists the Kurdish government, which possesses all the necessary traits for independence. The USA has certain plans of establishing Kurdistan on the territories of Iraq, Iran, Syria and Armenia. “Yet the realization of these plans is unreal for the nearest future. But if Turkey fails to resist the US pressure in this regard, sooner or later the Iraqi Kurdistan will officially proclaim its independence,” says the head of the institute of oriental studies Ruben Safrastyan.

                  The US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice spoke against the invasion to Iraq. She warned the Turkish authorities that this invasion could increase the tension in the region. According to Rice, Washington welcomes only some limited military action to be carried out by Turkey on the Iraqi border in case of need.

                  The response of the official Baghdad didn't wait long. On June 9 Iraq expressed its protest towards Turkey regarding the bombing over North Iraq. This is the reason why the Turkish Ambassador in Baghdad was asked to the Iraqi Ministry of International Affairs, states CNN. The Turkish side hasn't given any response in answer to these events yet. The Iraqi President Jalal Talabani announced that the official Baghdad will qualify the operations held by the Turkish Army in North Iraq as aggression against his country.

                  According to the Kurdish Agency Firat, the Turkish artillery bombarded a number of villages in North Iraq, in the result of which three of them were completely damaged. According to the information provided by the Turkish military sources about 3.5 thousand Kurdish separatists are concentrated in North of Iraq, which regularly organize attacks on the Turkish territory. At present on Iraqi border there is a huge grouping of 50 thousand soldiers settled.

                  Meanwhile along with the US Department of State, the Pentagon is more loyal towards the above mentioned issue. “There is no sign that Turkey has and is going to hold any operation in North Iraq. Turkey has always been with the USA in its global war against terrorism,” quotes newspaper Turkiye the words of Perry Wiggins, Deputy Director for Operations, Joint Staff. One of the leaders of the Turkish opposition Denis Baikal believes that the war against the Kurds is a part of Turkey's home policy, which has the right to fight against terrorism. “Turkey has the right to demand to put an end to the terrorism organized by Kurdistan Workers Party”, he stated in his interview with Aksam.
                  «PanARMENIAN.Net» analytical department
                  General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

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