Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

[Siggie]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

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Still at it...

Clergymen fight with brooms at Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem
Palestinian police break up fight at the Church of Nativity, believed to be Jesus' birthplace, after scuffles erupt between Armenian and Greek Orthodox clergymen.

7:30PM GMT 28 Dec 2011

Riot police were forced to restore order inside the basilica of the Nativity in Bethlehem after rival groups of Orthodox and Armenian clerics clashed in a dispute over the boundaries of their respective jurisdictions inside the church.

About 100 clergymen from the Greek Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic churches, armed with brooms, came to blows during the cleaning of the church in preparation for Orthodox Christmas celebrations.

Witnesses said the former Palestinian Minister of Tourism and Head of the Palestinian forces in the West Bank town were slightly injured during the incident.

Administration of the church is shared by Catholic, Orthodox, and Armenian Apostolic clerics and the relationships among the different groups have frequently been contentious with similar scuffles having broken out in previous years.

[Siggie]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

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Still at it...

Clergymen fight with brooms at Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem
Palestinian police break up fight at the Church of Nativity, believed to be Jesus' birthplace, after scuffles erupt between Armenian and Greek Orthodox clergymen.

7:30PM GMT 28 Dec 2011

Riot police were forced to restore order inside the basilica of the Nativity in Bethlehem after rival groups of Orthodox and Armenian clerics clashed in a dispute over the boundaries of their respective jurisdictions inside the church.

About 100 clergymen from the Greek Orthodox and Armenian Apostolic churches, armed with brooms, came to blows during the cleaning of the church in preparation for Orthodox Christmas celebrations.

Witnesses said the former Palestinian Minister of Tourism and Head of the Palestinian forces in the West Bank town were slightly injured during the incident.

Administration of the church is shared by Catholic, Orthodox, and Armenian Apostolic clerics and the relationships among the different groups have frequently been contentious with similar scuffles having broken out in previous years.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

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Still at it...

This says more about the culture of Jerusalem than it does about our church.

[Siggie]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

This says more about the culture of Jerusalem than it does about our church.

Were clergymen of "our" church behaving badly or not? Why should clergy of any church behave that way?

[Federate]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

I say good job Armenians, don't take xxxx from Greeks. Broomstick their ass! (sounds dirty)

[yerazhishda]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Were clergymen of "our" church behaving badly or not? Why should clergy of any church behave that way?

Along with the turn the other cheek clause, there's also that part about man being imperfect.

Priests/monk are no less subject to this than your regular lay person (obviously).

[Siggie]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

I say good job Armenians, don't take xxxx from Greeks. Broomstick their ass! (sounds dirty)

Along with the turn the other cheek clause, there's also that part about man being imperfect.

Priests/monk are no less subject to this than your regular lay person (obviously).

Yes, that's what I expected you'd say. Now, that requires acknowledging too, that they didn't behave well or in the way their religion would encourage them to, right? Don't just make a comment diverting attention from the fact that regardless of x, y, z, they didn't do the right thing.

Perhaps morality is independent of religion afterall?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Yes, that's what I expected you'd say. Now, that requires acknowledging too, that they didn't behave well or in the way their religion would encourage them to, right? Don't just make a comment diverting attention from the fact that regardless of x, y, z, they didn't do the right thing.

Perhaps morality is independent of religion afterall?

That depends on what you define as moral. Moses only presented 10 commandments to society. The modern law system has an encyclopedia worth of commandments yet none of them prevent the decay of morality.

[Siggie]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

That depends on what you define as moral. Moses only presented 10 commandments to society. The modern law system has an encyclopedia worth of commandments yet none of them prevent the decay of morality.

Certainly. I think a lot of them can also be summarized under fewer "umbrella" rules, but yes... People all over behave badly and the majority of them are adherents to some world religion (in the US and Europe, this tends to be Christianity). If people truly believed that they were going to burn for ETERNITY for "sinning" (some sins don't constitute immoral behavior, imo), how can they still do it? Why doesn't it deter?

Many are good without god and many are bad with god. I just don't think these things are bound as closely as some imply or out-and-out claim. That's all I'm saying.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Certainly. I think a lot of them can also be summarized under fewer "umbrella" rules, but yes... People all over behave badly and the majority of them are adherents to some world religion (in the US and Europe, this tends to be Christianity). If people truly believed that they were going to burn for ETERNITY for "sinning" (some sins don't constitute immoral behavior, imo), how can they still do it? Why doesn't it deter?

Many are good without god and many are bad with god. I just don't think these things are bound as closely as some imply or out-and-out claim. That's all I'm saying.

People may do immoral things because they have no choice. For example, how many people are in debt? If you think of money in practical terms, borrowing money from the future is stealing from your children. Most people wouldn't steal from their children but they do (without seeing the implications) borrow money from the future. Now, if a person died with money, that money used to get passed down to the next generation. What if, debt was treated in the same manner? After all, if you can inherit wealth, you can surely inherit debt.