Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Armenian Church in Moscow Shut Its Doors on Christmas and Sends Congregation Home

http://hetq.am/eng/articles/31898/armenian-church-in-moscow-shut-its-doors-on-christmas-and-sends-congregation-home.html

The doors to the main entrance of the newly constructed Armenian Church of the Holy Transfiguration in Moscow were closed on Jan. 6, and Armenian churchgoers who arrived on Christmas night were told by the guard to go home and come back the next day at 10:30 am.

"On Christmas, we went to church; it was midnight. We were told that the church is closed, to go home and come back tomorrow," says Moscow resident Shoushan A., who didn't want her surname published.

According to Shoushan, there were about 50 people near the gates at that time. "We asked to be let in, [but] they didn't allow us inside the church." After Shoushan pleaded extensively with the guard, he allowed her and her family members, and, after more urging, some of the others gathered to enter the church from the back.

"We were quite offended. I said instead of calling us to church, you dismiss us. They said, we have orders from above not to allow anyone to enter the church at 12 am," says Shoushan.

Surprisingly, those gathered outside saw several people inside the church. They believe that most likely there were VIPs among the guests, and other visitors were turned away in order not to bother the special guests.

Diocese of New Nakhichevan and Russia Press Secretary Alvard Nazaryan, in a telephone conversation with Hetq, said the church was indeed closed at 12 am because the ceremony was over. The ceremony began at 11 am and the church was open the entire day. "Since the Russian Church has ceremonies at night, they thought our church is also open, and they came at night, at a late hour," she said.

"It's not possible for there to have been people inside because the guards said when the flow of people stopped, they saw people aren't going inside, and they closed [the doors]. The guards are not authorized to close the doors when there are people or priests inside," she added.

Nazaryan stated that the church opens every day in the morning and remains open till late in the evening, but since the church is undergoing construction, and taking into consideration security measures, it is not always open, and the priests are not yet completely serving the church.

"The right thing is to come to church during the liturgy and participate in the sacrament and blessing of the water," she said.

[Mher]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

The demon speaks:

The critics are especially unhappy with his
reluctance to speak out against human rights abuses, government
corruption and injustice in the country. Some of them have also
denounced the pontiff for effectively siding with the current and
former Armenian governments in their standoffs with opposition forces.

In particular, Garegin came under opposition fire after endorsing the
official results of Armenia's February 2013 presidential election that
gave victory to the incumbent President Serzh Sarkisian. He personally
delivered a congratulatory message to Sarkisian together with several
other high-ranking clergymen the day after the disputed ballot. `Your
victory in the elections testifies to the fact that our people trust
your programs of reformation,' read the message.

The church leadership went on to criticize post-election street
protests organized in Yerevan by Raffi Hovannisian, the main
opposition presidential candidate who claimed to be the rightful
election winner. Hovannisian reacted angrily to the criticism. He
accused Garegin of `desecrating the Bible' by attending and blessing
Sarkisian's inauguration for a second term.

All national churches do what they must to stick to the regime in power in order to stay relevant, and the regime does its best to work with them to control the masses. The per-soviet Russia, post soviet Russia, hell even soviet Russia, the many south American dictators, etc.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

I know what you are saying bro, like I wouldn't trust him around my sister LOL But you know what he is a very good administrator and that is what we need not a saint. we were given a tour of all the building he had built and all the churches and schools for priests and seminaries. He is pushing for more church presence in television programs and army which is a GREAT thing. Have you seen our priests with camouflage robes? Awesome! he also has the western cults in check. We met him he is very charismatic, he impressed all of us. Look at it this way bro, a hospital administrator doesnt have to be a doktor to be effective. Besides I ain't going to him for my checkups LOL

That says it all.

The leader of the Armenian Church is someone you wouldn't trust being around with your sister.

I also wouldn't trust him being around money (especially other peoples), or cars, or palaces, or casinos, or parks, or historical monuments either - he is guaranteed to abuse at least one of them.

...and I'd especially not trust him to be in charge of that corrupt extremist reactionary fascistic cult that the Armenian Church in Armenia has become. Armenia has enough enemies and problems without having this poisonously devisive organisation at its very heart.

[Serjik]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

I know what you are saying bro, like I wouldn't trust him around my sister LOL But you know what he is a very good administrator and that is what we need not a saint. we were given a tour of all the building he had built and all the churches and schools for priests and seminaries. He is pushing for more church presence in television programs and army which is a GREAT thing. Have you seen our priests with camouflage robes? Awesome! he also has the western cults in check. We met him he is very charismatic, he impressed all of us. Look at it this way bro, a hospital administrator doesnt have to be a doktor to be effective. Besides I ain't going to him for my checkups LOL

.If your doctor said to you “I am not much of a doctor but, I am very smart and a good administrator “
would you let him do an operation on you?.

[londontsi]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

.

...... the Katolikoc ....... He isnt all holy and all that but a very smart man and a good administrator.

If your doctor said to you “I am not much of a doctor but, I am very smart and a good administrator “
would you let him do an operation on you?


.

[londontsi]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

I met with the Katolikoc ......... He isnt all holy and all that but a very smart man and a good administrator.

Is this your judgment or somebody told you this.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

The demon speaks:

Armenian Church Head Bemoans Decline Of 'Traditional Values'

RFE/RL Armenia Report
07.01.2014

Catholicos Garegin II, the supreme head of the Armenian Apostolic
Church, has urged Armenians to stay loyal to the basic tenets of
Christianity in the face of what he called a decline in `traditional
family values' resulting from excessive freedom.

In a sermon read out during the Christmas Mass celebrated at the main
Armenian cathedral in Echmiadzin on Monday, Garegin said freedom of
expression is increasingly abused by people in Armenia and around the
world to the detriment of `the truth' embodied by Jesus Christ.

'Traditional family values are in retreat, and so is, in the face of
difficulties, the spirit of conscientiousness,' he said mid-way
through the liturgy broadcast live by leading Armenian TV
channels. `Unreserved behavior and insult are regarded as courageous;
responsibility is subordinated to rights. Frequently, the right to
express one's personal opinion is wrongly utilized to distort the
truth, in order to spread subjective or biased opinions.

`It is in this mentality that falsehood is veiled with a mask of
truth, debate becomes argument, discussion transforms into scorn and
condemnation, from which the Spirit of God's truth and the wisdom of
God move away; and we have difficulty - yes, even cease - to see the
good and the just; and faith and trust in one another, as well as hope
and optimism for the future, all weaken in our lives.'

Garegin also deplored aggressive human rights advocacy in and outside
Armenia, saying that it sometimes forces conservative societies to
`adopt behaviors that are contradictory with societal thinking and
value structures.' He did not specify those behaviors.

`It is in this manner that morality in the world cedes ground to
immorality, freedom of speech is transformed to licentiousness of
speech, and testimony becomes the distortion of truth,' added the
Catholicos. `The world shall be liberated of these life-agitating
realities when men accept the truth of Christ, when they witness the
presence of the Lord through their faithful works, and like the
Apostle, proclaim, `...the truth of Christ is in me!''

Although Garegin named no names, his critical remarks appeared to be,
at least in part, a broadside aimed at opposition and civic figures
increasingly critical of his leadership one of one of the world's
oldest churches. The critics are especially unhappy with his
reluctance to speak out against human rights abuses, government
corruption and injustice in the country. Some of them have also
denounced the pontiff for effectively siding with the current and
former Armenian governments in their standoffs with opposition forces.

In particular, Garegin came under opposition fire after endorsing the
official results of Armenia's February 2013 presidential election that
gave victory to the incumbent President Serzh Sarkisian. He personally
delivered a congratulatory message to Sarkisian together with several
other high-ranking clergymen the day after the disputed ballot. `Your
victory in the elections testifies to the fact that our people trust
your programs of reformation,' read the message.

The church leadership went on to criticize post-election street
protests organized in Yerevan by Raffi Hovannisian, the main
opposition presidential candidate who claimed to be the rightful
election winner. Hovannisian reacted angrily to the criticism. He
accused Garegin of `desecrating the Bible' by attending and blessing
Sarkisian's inauguration for a second term.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Got the answer. Demon is technically incorrect, since he was summoned not from hell, but from the depths of the worst aspects of the Soviet system. I'd go for demon-like.

Why was Nicholay Tsaturyan meeting with the Minister of Culture

http://en.aravot.am/2013/10/18/162083

October 18 2013


Yesterday, iLur.am news website had released information the Minister
of Culture Hasmik Poghosyan by persuasion of His Holiness Karekin II
and by the order of the President Serzh Sargsyan is going to get rid
of the Artistic Director of Vardan Ajemian State Drama Theatre of
Gyumri, People's Artist of Armenia Nikolay Tsaturyan. The reason was
Nikolay Tsaturyan's sharp criticism voiced over the GALA TV regarding
the authorities of the country, oligarchs and the Catholicos, to whom
the artist called a demon. As conveyed by iLur.am, the Catholicos not
tolerating the criticism voiced against him, had complained to Serzh
Sargsyan urging him to punish the artist, and accordingly, Mr.
Tsaturyan, yesterday, was called to the Minister of Culture for
resignation. And, even though, yesterday, the People's artist had gone
to meet the Minister, however, Ms. Poghosyan refused to accept him.
Today, Aravot.am asked for clarifications on this noised issue from
the head of PR department of the Ministry of Culture Alla Serobyan.
The latter pointed out that all of this is disinformation, because
yesterday's meeting between the Minister of Culture Hasmik Poghosyan
and Mr. Tsaturyan was planned long ago. `Before giving the interview,
Mr. Tsaturyan, still a few days ago, had asked for a meeting with the
Minister, and the Minister had appointed a day and an hour. The
meeting was supposed to take place yesterday, but since before the
meeting Mr. Tsaturyan had voiced unfounded comments, particularly with
regard to writing the resignation, therefore the minister refused to
accept him yesterday,' said Alla Serobyan. To our question of
clarification, whether the Catholicos has nothing to do with this,
Alla Serobyan said, `Of course, it is a fiction.' We also asked for a
clarification from Mr. Tsaturyan, as he was in Yerevan, we could not
be met, but he confirmed on the phone that he really had an
appointment for yesterday to meet with the Minister and to discuss
issues regarding the play `Monte' and a number of other issues, but
the minister had not accepted him. To our observation that according
to the ministry the reason was the comments made by you that you were
called to write a resignation, Mr. Tsaturyan said, `And where I have
made such a comment. I have not said such a thing. I've read about it
from the Facebook, and the media that they want to dismiss me from
work due to the complaints of the Catholicos. All of that is written
by the media and my comment is not there.' And as for his bold
statement, Nikolay Tsaturyan conveyed that he had voiced his opinion
as an artist, and a member of society. To note that many of Gyumri
intellectuals directly welcome Mr. Tsaturyan's speech, according to
their impression, the latter had conveyed the words of their hearts on
air, and they think that any person living and taking his office in
Gyumri should be as bold as Mr. Tsaturyan. The views of intellectuals
in detail will be available soon.


"Catholicos is not immune, let him apply to court, I do not accept his
personality and behavior either."

http://en.aravot.am/2013/10/19/162105/

October 19 2013

Recently, Artistic Director of Vardan Ajemian State Drama Theatre of
Gyumri Nikolay Tsaturyan had called Catholicos a devil over GALA TV.
After Nikolay Tsaturyan's these words, a big fuss was raised in the
media and social networks, because, according to widespread rumors,
Catholicos was offended, was angry at him and complained to Serzh
Sargsyan to dismiss him from the chair of the Artistic Director of the
Theatre. In this respect, in the interview with Aravot.am, to our
question whether Catholicos had the right to get offended from the
opinion of the intellectual, and to what extent he shares Nikolay
Tsaturyan's standpoint about Catholicos, General Secretary of
`Heritage' party Styopa Safaryan answered, `If it is not an abuse of
personal character, or it was not said in this sense, then Catholicos
should understand why not only Nikolay Tsaturyan but many others put a
label on him. Every person must understand what facts and motivations
are laid on the base of criticizing his personality, regardless of
whether you accept them or not. I do not want to say that Catholicos
earned the right to be offended, but Catholicos is not immune, nor
indisputable, consequently his behavior and action may become worthy
of criticism. Personally I do not accept his personality and his
behavior.' We clarified that you considered him a devil, Styopa
Safaryan replied, `I do not want to say with those words. Whatever he
does, or how he behaves in that status, is not the conduct of His
Holiness.' We were interested that this Catholicos is criticized a
lot, whether the society has become freer, or Catholicos is very
vulnerable, Styopa Safaryan replied, `Both. Of course, transparency of
information has increased, opinions are spread very quickly, and the
information is open. I think the control has been increased, but the
public has become matured and many taboos are already broken. For what
they would be shy and would not dare to talk about before, now these
taboos are no more available.' Styopa Safaryan also said that if
Catholicos thinks that he is slandered, he may apply to the court.
`What are the courts for? The courts are not only for us to apply and
be rejected. Let him apply to court.'


Hripsime JEBEJYAN

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Who exactly, if anyone, HAS been calling him a "demon"?

Criticize, but decently

http://en.aravot.am/2013/10/19/162092/

October 19 2013


Our high-rank clergymen need to get used to current situation, when
they are not beyond criticism, and when we, the ordinary believers,
express our dissatisfaction regarding their, to say the least,
intemperate behavior. However, the criticism is beautiful within its
reasonable limits; there is nothing sound in rude and arrogant attacks
of the Catholicos and the Holy See. Calling my church leader a `devil'
is sacrilege, obscenity and injustice. Apart from everything, it is
offensive, first of all, to me as a representative of given faith. (To
the point, despite knowing that ardent opponents `are going to
attack', I must say that I support the harshest critics of present or
former presidents, but insulting, humiliating qualification are
unpleasant to me, they offend my dignity as a citizen). Karekin II is
not a devil at all, he is a ordinary Armenian high-ranking official
with the mercenaries typical to given environment, with intellectual
level and with completely lack of `spiritual fire'. The current
Patriarch is neither the first nor the last Catholicos of our history,
who does not have the qualities of being a spiritual leader. Bishop at
Shirak Diocese of the Armenian Apostolic Church Michael Ajapahyan, to
confirm that `who is not an Apostolic, he is not an Armenian', in my
opinion, a wrong and splitting thesis, says that to understand the
music of Komitas you definitely need to be a man of our faith. Let's
leave aside the circumstance that in this case to understand Bach's
music you should be a Catholic, and thus we admit by default that Bach
belong only to Catholics, and Komitas is only ours. I just wanted to
remind how the relations of our prominent musician and `bosses' of the
Holy See are arranged after the death of Catholicos Khrimian Hayrik.
They were relations between the talented individual and average,
spiritually self-contained leaders. Thus, `shining' among the priests
are as rare as in other specialties. ... As a response to my criticism
to the high clergymen, the following `murderous' counterargument is
usually brought: `and are you perfect to write such things, first,
consider the beam of timber that is in your own eye.' Of course, there
are thousands logical answers to it, but I will try to find the
shortest. No, I am not perfect, I am too far from being perfect. We
all have a long way to go. His Holiness, too.

Aram Abrahamyan
Read more at: http://en.aravot.am/2013/10/19/162092/

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Styopa Safaryan's `shocking information' about Catholicos. `He has
captured public parks.'

http://en.aravot.am/2013/10/19/162098/

October 19 2013

Today, in an interview with the Aravot.am, Secretary-General of
`Heritage' party Stepan Safaryan told that he is receiving `shocking
information' about the Catholicos, about the property that he is
trying to obtain through the church. `It is the first time I am
stating about it. I was deeply shocked when I found out that the park
located in Nor Nork 1st district, near Gayi statue belongs to the
Catholicos and the Holy See and it is not under care of the precinct
authorities because it has another owner.' We clarified whether it has
become the private property of the Catholicos or Etchmiadzin, Stepan
Safaryan replied, `I do not care whether it personally belongs to the
Catholicos or the Holy See. It has become the policy of the Holy See
by the Catholicos, and he has captured the public parks. The
Catholicos displaying such behavior cannot deserve respect, at least
by me, and even if I do not call him a demon, definitely I will not
tell any positive and praising words to his address.' Styopa Safaryan
also added that he has found out that the Catholicos has captured not
only the park in Yerevan, but also other parks, as well as the
territory of the Institute of Language. `He has just acquired them by
using the state leverages. In the same way, now, the Catholicos, if he
does not want the hatred and criticism against him be continued, he
should be abstained from intervening in secular affairs and statuses
of secular people. It should not be allowed for the Catholicos to use
the Minister of Culture or any other levers to dismiss the author of
criticism unpleasant to him from work. The church, itself, has been
persecuted by the Soviet Union for years. And, nowadays, it seems that
the church seems to be trying to become a persecutor of citizens' free
speech and free mind. In this regard, it is just condemnable, and I
think that the society will not allow its church to become a devil.'

Hripsime JEBEJYAN