What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

[KanadaHye]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

FFS. Did you read the very first scenario? WHEN did I ever say that God only commands those things? Quit arguing with the imaginary Siggie in your head. I said no such thing.

The imaginary Siggie is making imaginary scenarios. If someone is hearing voices that doesn't exist, they are either in a dream state or just plain nuts.

[Siggie]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

So God only commands war, death, genocide, murder and self mutilation, etc.? Doesn't God ever command people to do good? Jesus.

FFS. Did you read the very first scenario? WHEN did I ever say that God only commands those things? Quit arguing with the imaginary Siggie in your head. I said no such thing.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

That was the gist of my question above with the different scenarios. If what you're hearing is "God" does it impact the decision about there being mental illness? What about what the voicing is saying? Is that important?

So God only commands war, death, genocide, murder and self mutilation, etc.? Doesn't God ever command people to do good? Jesus.

[Siggie]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

The man that ripped his eye out (and ate it!!) in court killed his family in a gruesome manner. So this man happened to be in church when he lost it. What does psychotic behaviour have to do with church or religion?

That was the gist of my question above with the different scenarios. If what you're hearing is "God" does it impact the decision about there being mental illness? What about what the voicing is saying? Is that important?

[KanadaHye]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

What does your statement have to do with this man's story or my post? Make the connection overtly please.

The man that ripped his eye out (and ate it!!) in court killed his family in a gruesome manner. So this man happened to be in church when he lost it. What does psychotic behaviour have to do with church or religion?

[Siggie]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him” (Jn. 1:1-3)

Below all matter (including light) is information or God's word. Rather interesting philosophy by sheep herders thousands of years ago before "advanced" and "modern" academics.

What's interesting or academic about that? There's zero scholarship or study necessary to say "God did it... he did it all." You never actually have to find out how things happened or came to be. But I don't want to turn this into a repeat of the countless debates we've already had.

What does your statement have to do with this man's story or my post? Make the connection overtly please.

[KanadaHye]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

I think you run into problems marking the line of abnormality or impairment.

Consider these scenarios and assume that social relationships, work, etc have not really been affected and the symptoms are not interfering with functioning in any notable way other than the strangeness of the experience.

If A "hears God" speaking to him and saying go to work, be nice to people, donate every penny you can to the church, etc. and A follows and finds some comfort in the idea of God speaking to him and therefore, doesn't mind it, is this mental illness?

If B has the identical experience, but doesn't believe in God and doesn't attribute the voice to God and is there for bothered and distracted, is this mental illness?

If C thinks he hears God, but God says to set fire to a nearby building because it is used as headquarters by a group in opposition to the church, is this mental illness?

If D thinks he hears Satan, but all Satan does is talk to him and share satanic doctrine (doesn't instruct to perform any action), is this mental illness?

Forget what these hypos do in response to the voice...


---

Also... Are these persons really only harming themselves? No one who witnessed this guy tear out his eyes was harmed by the experience?
What about those who had to pay for the medical care immediately following or provide for long-term care for this now blind person?

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him” (Jn. 1:1-3)

Below all matter (including light) is information or God's word. Rather interesting philosophy by sheep herders thousands of years ago before "advanced" and "modern" academics.

[Siggie]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

It'd be interesting to know whether his schizophrenic symptomalogy was religion-specific or if he's been symptomatic with respect to other areas as well. I think there's a definite bias within the mental health disciplines against any non-western, non-mainstream belief system. Most clinicians tend to consider any form of supernatural or even extreme religious belief a red flag for possible schizoaffective disorders, which is really a shame, in my opinion. Note that most symptoms become diagnosable only when they start to cause "functional impairment"--in other words, interfere with normal daily functioning. Interestingly, there's no concrete definition of "functional impairment" that's widely accepted in the field; mental health folk have some discretion in deciding this. Individual belief/preference is no crime nor disorder (everyone's reality is slightly different, even within the normal range)--we should just let these people be (as long as they're not harming others). If someone wants to poke their own eyes out, by all means, let them! That's not a matter of sane vs. insane, it's just a matter of stupidity brought on by one's own belief system--and everyone has a right to their own belief system.

/dissenting opinion

I think you run into problems marking the line of abnormality or impairment.

Consider these scenarios and assume that social relationships, work, etc have not really been affected and the symptoms are not interfering with functioning in any notable way other than the strangeness of the experience.

If A "hears God" speaking to him and saying go to work, be nice to people, donate every penny you can to the church, etc. and A follows and finds some comfort in the idea of God speaking to him and therefore, doesn't mind it, is this mental illness?

If B has the identical experience, but doesn't believe in God and doesn't attribute the voice to God and is there for bothered and distracted, is this mental illness?

If C thinks he hears God, but God says to set fire to a nearby building because it is used as headquarters by a group in opposition to the church, is this mental illness?

If D thinks he hears Satan, but all Satan does is talk to him and share satanic doctrine (doesn't instruct to perform any action), is this mental illness?

Forget what these hypos do in response to the voice...


---

Also... Are these persons really only harming themselves? No one who witnessed this guy tear out his eyes was harmed by the experience?
What about those who had to pay for the medical care immediately following or provide for long-term care for this now blind person?

[LadyLazarus]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

It'd be interesting to know whether his schizophrenic symptomalogy was religion-specific or if he's been symptomatic with respect to other areas as well. I think there's a definite bias within the mental health disciplines against any non-western, non-mainstream belief system. Most clinicians tend to consider any form of supernatural or even extreme religious belief a red flag for possible schizoaffective disorders, which is really a shame, in my opinion. Note that most symptoms become diagnosable only when they start to cause "functional impairment"--in other words, interfere with normal daily functioning. Interestingly, there's no concrete definition of "functional impairment" that's widely accepted in the field; mental health folk have some discretion in deciding this. Individual belief/preference is no crime nor disorder (everyone's reality is slightly different, even within the normal range)--we should just let these people be (as long as they're not harming others). If someone wants to poke their own eyes out, by all means, let them! That's not a matter of sane vs. insane, it's just a matter of stupidity brought on by one's own belief system--and everyone has a right to their own belief system.

/dissenting opinion

[KanadaHye]

Re: What the...?! Man rips out own eyes in church

Geez... Even among schizophrenics. It's just SOOOO extreme to rip out BOTH your eyes.

Yeah, even the guy that ripped out an eye and ate it while in trial left the other one intact
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_156765.html

It's so hard to meet sane people these days