Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Great Article take a look at it

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Great Article take a look at it

    Men's News Daily, CA
    Feb 11 2004

    The Defamation of Christianity - Part 8027


    by Bruce Walker

    We all know that Christian anti-Semitism caused the Holocaust, right?
    The story goes something like this: (1) Christians, from the earliest
    days, were anti-Semitic; (2) Christians engaged in unprovoked
    persecution of Jews in the ancient and medieval world; (3) Christians
    encouraged massacres against Jews that desensitized Christendom to
    the Holocaust; (4) Men raised as Christians committed the Holocaust;
    (5) Christians want to deny the Holocaust.

    Baseball allows three strikes and "You’re out!" Football gives teams
    four downs to keep their drive alive. Be generous and give this
    8,027th defamation of Christianity defamation, five chances to be
    right, and it is still defamation.

    Christians were anti-Semitic?

    Christianity has never been "anti-Semitic." The first Christians were
    Jews themselves. The early Christians were Semitic people, even if
    they were not always Jewish people. The notion of racial moral
    superiority adopted by the National Socialist German Workers Party
    resembled more Judaism than Christianity (although its ethics were as
    hostile to Judaism as to Christianity.)

    Racism was first and most emphatically condemned in human history by
    Christians. Outside Christian theology, racism was the norm. Why,
    then, describe the conflicts between Christians and Jews in the
    ancient and medieval world as "anti-Semitic"? Simple: it creates the
    false impression that differences between Jews and Christians sowed
    the seeds of Nazi racial policies.

    Christians engaged in unprovoked persecution Jews in the ancient and
    medieval world?

    The first three centuries of Christian existence was one long
    religious holocaust with Christians the principal victims. Pagan
    Romans also persecuted Jews. The Diaspora was a pagan Roman crime
    committed at the same time that Romans were torturing Christians to
    death. Seldom noted is that Jews, ten percent of the population of
    the Empire, helped persecute Christians.

    Constantine the Great may have been converted to Christianity on his
    deathbed, but he was profoundly influenced by Christianity years
    before, which led him to proclaim the Edict of Milan in 313 A.D. This
    edict granted religious toleration to Jews, Christians and all faiths
    within the Roman Empire.

    The peoples of the Roman Empire were not forced to become Christians.
    These most cosmopolitan people embraced Christianity as something far
    better than they had seen before. This did not lead to perfect moral
    behavior, but Christian doctrine denies that we will ever be sinless.


    What naturally did occur, however, was an improvement in the moral
    conditions within the Roman Empire, and that included no crimes
    comparable to the Diaspora or the Babylonian Captivity or the
    Assyrian destruction of the ten northern tribes of the united kingdom
    of Israel and Judah or Egyptian oppression of Jews.

    Christophobes do not even pretend these sorts of atrocities were
    taking place. Float along another few centuries, and the next
    indictments appear: the Justinian codification of Roman law included
    discrimination against Jews. True: almost every people in the ancient
    world, including Jews, discriminated against those who did not adhere
    to the faith of the majority.

    The most notorious crime of one faith against the other in the
    ancient and medieval world was the systematic murder of over 90,000
    men, women and children by Persians and Christians when Jerusalem was
    captured in 614. Jews, who had lived within Christendom for
    centuries, had never been subjected to this religious genocide.

    Christians engaged in massacres of Jews which desensitized
    Christendom to the Holocaust?

    Aside from the holocaust of Jerusalem in 614, other peoples did
    engage in mass exterminations of other peoples because of their
    faith. The most ignored were the tens of thousands of Jews and of
    Christians who were slaughtered in single, horrible holocausts by
    Moslems in Spain.

    Why do we hear so little about this? Bat Y’eor, the Jewish historian
    who came from Egypt and who is the greatest modern student of Islamic
    persecution of others, describes the ideal often presented in history
    books of a wonderful, idyllic Islamic Spain as a "pious lie" by Jews
    to make Christians, who never did anything comparable in Spain, look
    comparatively worse.

    The expulsion of Jews from Spain in 1492 is typically described as a
    comparable episode, but of course it was not. Isabella and Ferdinand
    were simply reimposing edicts already made by prior Moslem rulers
    requiring that Jews become Moslems, convert or die. The greatest
    difference is that Christians did not engage in an organized,
    sanctioned slaughter of Spanish Jews.

    The tragic massacres of hundreds of Jews in the Rhineland during the
    First Crusade are the next "example" of how dangerous Christianity is
    to Jews. The events are not disputed. Mobs of peasants traveled from
    town to town killing entire Jewish communities. Seldom noted is that
    these mobs were strongly opposed by the bishops and archbishops of
    the towns in which these several massacres took place.

    Bishops and Archbishops took in Jews, hid Jews, and tried in every
    way possible to prevent these murders. The mobs tried smashed the
    doors of bishoprics and tried to kill Christian clergy. The courage
    of bishops and archbishops against the wrath of wild mobs changed the
    course of these campaigns.

    The mobs stopped looking for Jews to kill in towns which had a strong
    Christian presence. Saint Bernard warned crusaders that killing Jews
    for being Jews was like killing Christ. Hardly fodder for holocausts,
    is it?

    Cossacks in the 17th Century engaged in some of the most unspeakable
    crimes against Jews in human history. This is also cited as "proof"
    that the differences between Christians and Jews led to mass murder
    of Jews. The Cossacks, however, were ruthless to virtually everyone,
    including other Cossacks. Jews were not the first nor the last
    peoples who suffered horribly at the hands of Cossacks. Moreover,
    Cossacks were notoriously irreligious.

    Salient is the reaction to these crimes within Christendom. Europe,
    still developing in the 1600s and not yet "modern" nevertheless
    strongly and unequivocally condemned these atrocities against Jews.
    There was no denial and no support for this holocaust against Jews by
    Christendom.

    Men raised as Christians committed the Holocaust

    True, except incomplete: Men raised as Christians, and who
    emphatically and contemptuously reviled Christianity, committed the
    Holocaust. The only people who opposed the Holocaust when they could
    have saved their lives by being quiet were Christians in Europe. The
    only people who spoke out against the Holocaust while it was
    happening were Christians.

    No one in 1945 seriously believed that Christianity "caused" the
    Holocaust, but many people believed that the evil which Hitler
    represented was ended by Christians. There are dozens of examples of
    the deep gratitude which Jews felt toward serious Christians in this
    hellish part of human history, but perhaps one example sums it up
    best: Rome has the oldest synagogue, perhaps, on earth; after the war
    was won and Nazism was defeated, the Chief Rabbi of Rome converted to
    Christianity.

    If Christians "caused" the Holocaust, then who caused the greater
    holocaust in the Soviet Union a dozen years earlier? Not serious Jews
    and not Judaism, but it is worth noting that Judaism and Jewishness
    is no more perfect a vaccine against these sorts of crimes than
    Christianity.

    Lazar Kaganovich, perhaps the greatest mass murderer in modern
    history, was the Soviet Himmler. Kaganovich, even as an atheist
    Marxist, considered himself Jewish; he spoke Yiddish; he was raised
    as an observant Jew. Yagoda, the sadistic head of the Soviet secret
    police, was Jewish. Men who reject the moral precepts of Christianity
    and of Judaism will commit unthinkable crimes against humanity.
    Kaganovich and Himmler had the same theology: man is god.

    Christians want to deny the Holocaust?

    The myth that somehow America and Britain "denied" or "concealed" the
    Holocaust is more than just odd. On December 17, 1942 the allies
    denounced the mass murder of Jewish in occupied Europe "in the
    strongest possible terms" what was described as a "bestial policy of
    cold-blooded extermination."

    Anthony Eden introduced the resolution in the House of Commons, and a
    Labour MP asked that all members "rise in their places and stand in
    silence in protest of this disgusting behavior" Lord Samuel, a Jewish
    peer and former Leader of the Labor Party sad "These events are an
    outcome of quite deliberate, planned, conscious cruelty of human
    beings." This is Holocaust denial?

    America and Britain deliberately decided that defeating Nazism in
    Europe was to be given a much higher priority than defeated Japanese
    Imperialism in Asia. Japan, in fact, had more power to actually
    threaten the island democracies of Anglo-America, because the
    Japanese fleet and naval aviation were superb.

    Japan was exterminating Chinese and other Asians at a rate perhaps
    greater than the cold-blooded murder of Jews in Europe. If the
    democracies of Anglo-America were indifferent to that enormous crime
    we call the Holocaust - by the way...what do we call the holocaust of
    Chinese by Japan? I seem to have forgotten - then these Christians
    nations certainly showed that indifference in inexplicable ways.

    Christians as Christians had been condemning the murder of Jews for
    more than one thousand years. This was often not reciprocated. The
    first religious and racial genocide in Europe during the 20th Century
    was not the murder of Jews but the murder of Christians within the
    Turkish empire. Almost every horror later used by Lazar Kaganovich
    against innocent, overwhelmingly Christian, people, and even later
    used by Nazis against innocent, largely Jewish, people was used first
    against Christians in this forgotten holocaust.

    Packing people into cattle cars, torturing innocents, liquidating
    children - all these things happened and millions of educated, decent
    Christians died. As with the Holocaust, Christians who were not in
    harm’s way risked their lives to save the innocent. Also, to his
    enormous credit, an American Jew, Henry Morgenthau, worked bravely
    and tirelessly to help these wretched victims.

    There was holocaust denial, however, in this first pioneering racial
    and religious atrocity. In 1918 Ben Gurion and Ben-Zvi published a
    book projecting an Eretz Yisrael in the Ottoman Empire. Ben Gurion
    says in the book: "it must be said, to the credit of the Turks, that
    their rulers behaved toward the conquered with a degree of tolerance
    and generosity which is unparalleled in the history of Christian
    peoples of the period." Ben Gurion does not mention a single world
    about the Armenian genocide.

    The extermination of the Christian Armenians had been preceded by
    decades of mass murders of Christians in the Turkish Empire. How did
    Theodor Herzl during the Fifth Zionist Congress in 1901 feel Jews
    should react to these decades of torture and mass murder of
    Christians? Herzl urged the Congress to send a message to Abdul Hami
    II (know as the "Bloody Sultan" for his massacres of Armenians) which
    had an "expression of dedication and gratitude which all the Jews
    feel regarding the benevolence which his Highness the Sultan has
    always shown them."

    The best and the worst moral attitude

    Jews should want Christians to be deep and sincere Christians.
    Christians should want Jews to take Judaism seriously. Defaming
    Christianity does not lead to a safer, kinder world for Jews. It
    leads to monsters like Bormann and Eichman. The best protection
    against holocausts are men like pious Christians like George
    Washington and Pope John Paul II. The best protection are honest,
    decent Jews like Henry Morgenthau.

    Monsters like Kaganovich, craven and cynical creeps like Ben Gurion
    are found in all races, all faiths and every age. Some are CINOs
    (Christians In Name Only) and some are JINOs (Jews In Name Only.) One
    of the best ways to seed and to nourish this sort of evil is to
    defame Christianity - like pretending that the Holocaust is the
    logical consequence of serious Christianity.
Working...
X