Turks, turks, turks....

[Էլիա]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

Esther, my point above is not the discussion of the genocide. You can believe that 1915 was a genocide. I may agree with you at some certain aspects such as the number of casualties, the suffering of Armenian population and also may disagree with you on the aim of the government, number of casualties, population facts, etc. But my point is irrelevant to them. What I mean is; why do you (not personally you) still continue a blind racist campain to Turks on the base of hatred? Almost one century have passed after 1915 and still there is no way to make a mature discussion with you about the facts because of your aggressive hatred. We can settle down, sit on the table and discuss about all our problems (history and today) and can reach a solution at the end (which this solution will help Armenia more than Turkey, Turkey is a strong country that can struggle against your campains, but on the other hand, Armenia have to make peace with Turkey to grow. People are suffering from hunger and poverty there)
Why do you act like: "confess the genocide or shut up you bloody asiatic mongolian bla bla bla..."?
Could I make a bit sense now?

Ya, it's so easy to discuss something with you Turks when you killed Hrant Dink for talking about the Armenian Genocide! [/sarcasm] Also, apparently, talking about the Armenian Genocide is an insult to "Turkishness". As for the "You can believe that 1915 was a genocide"... HELLO?! What is the definition of genocide? Genocide: The systematic, planned annihilation of an ethnic, racial or political group How much clearer do I have to make it? Besides the number of people killed and the casualties, there is the evidence of the government planning, yes, planning to destroy the Armenian race for a strong Turkish Empire! And yes, there is proof for that, and I don't care how many times your mommy told you that it's fake, there is proof that Abdul Hamid and Talat Pasha ordered the extermination of Armenians! I rest my case!

[Էլիա]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

-Armenian -No no, you are Muslim we are Christian, you probably killed us.
-Turkish - ???
-Armenian - You can´t find even a word. Because you are guilty, like your grand father.
-Turkish - ???
-Armenian – Yes… yes… you are guilty and a bloody denier. There is no need for dialogue. Accept it or shut up!... There should be no relations between Turkey and Armenia because you killed my grandpa.

Dear Esther, actually this part is really funny (or maybe my sense of humour is very primitive, at the end I am a barbarian, remember)
Regarding "fairytales mommy and daddy tell you" I think Armenians are to be blamed for these things. Because you are grown with horror stories that you families tell you.
Regarding the reason of those horror stories, well for sure Armenians suffer at WW1, during deportation (or you call as genocide) But the problem here is, almost every nation has these kind of horror stories. Turks also suffered at WW1. More that 1 million Turk is annilihated from European Turkey during Balkan wars, but we do not promote these historical pains like you pathetically. We do not wear "Balkan massacres T-shirts" or cry as "hey world, listen to us, Serbians and Greeks killed us at Balkan wars, poor us, we are victim..." So why you have this kind of obsession? Why you are that much "special"? Because Turkey do not accept it? So if Turkey accept it one day, will you forget Turkish hatred? Answers are no.

Retard. The Serbians and Greeks killed you Turks because you took over their land with your idiotic Ottoman Empire! Always count on a Turk to try to make things seem innocent.

[sev_zeytun]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

[I]
Regarding the reason of those horror stories, well for sure Armenians suffer at WW1, during deportation (or you call as genocide) But the problem here is, almost every nation has these kind of horror stories. Turks also suffered at WW1. More that 1 million Turk is annilihated from European Turkey during Balkan wars, but we do not promote these historical pains like you pathetically. We do not wear "Balkan massacres T-shirts" or cry as "hey world, listen to us, Serbians and Greeks killed us at Balkan wars, poor us, we are victim..."

The facts are that the Armenians did not, as a country, fight in WWI, but over 1.5 million of us died. And what is the point of deporting people if they die from starvation? If you move people from within your own empire then you wouldn't want your own citizens to die, would you? Deportation into a desert for "safety" doesn't make sense to me. As for the Balkan Wars, it was only the 1st Balkan War where the Turkish Empire was defending itself against the Bulgarians, Greeks, Serbians, and the Montenegrins and their greed. In the 2nd Balkan War everyone was fighting against Bulgaria so Turkey had lots of support and wasn't even the main combatant in the war anyway. It's a little obvious that they will have casualties but that doesn't make it a massacre if your country was a participant in the wars. (btw: where did you get information on the casualties of Turks in the Balkan Wars because I do not remember there being 1 million Turkish deaths during either the 1st or 2nd war in my European History book, my American History book, or the encyclopedia’s in my house)

[sev_zeytun]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

[I] So if Turkey accept it one day, will you forget Turkish hatred?

To tell you the truth exfo, I do not hate Turkish people and I never will. They are just people just like everyone else. But having many casualties in a war that your country fought in is not the same as having many innocent and unprepared people slaughtered. And if the Turkish people did admit to committing genocide against Armenians I would be very happy. In order to forgive one another, people first need to acknowledge the fact that they did something that they should not have done (or else there is no subject to discuss for forgiveness). Armenians and Turks used to be very good partners and friends but committing genocide was like stabbing your friend (the Armenians) in the back. It wasn't like our countries hated each other from the start and I think that that is what causes even more tension upon the subject.

[Sip]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

You already made up your mind about eveything and what I only have to do is to confess what you want.

You would have a valid point if Armenians were asking the Turks to "confess" that the Earth is flat. But in this case, you don't have much of a point. It doesn't matter what Armenians want. It only matters what is FACT and what is Truth. So stop making excuses how Armenians are so bad and so racist .. it doesn't change anything with respects to the facts revolving around the Armenian Genocide.

[exfo]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

What you have to understand is, that it has been a really heart-wrecking process for all Armenians. Like you've already said, almost one century has passed and the Turkish government is still denying what happened in 1915. And the murdering still continues (Hrant Dink). I don't know if you've recently heard about the murders in Malatya, but don't you think all the recent events proof us, which side is too stubborn-minded to open up? I don't know where you live or if you've ever experienced any Turkish fascism, but I think the hatred of many of us can be, if not justified for you , at least understood.(It is justified for me)
You should complain about your government, and not about people fighting for the truth.

Esther, I am aware of the unfortunate rising of nationalism in Turkey nowadays and I am very uncomfortable of this situation like some other ten millions of people in Turkey. Of course I know Hrant Dink murder and murders at Malatya. I do not try to justify them of course. They are (also the murder at Trabzon) very shameful events which we face nowadays. You mentioned about the murder of Hrant Dink and Malatya, so I guess that you watch the news about Turkey. Also you should know (probably you also know this) that hundred thousands of people on the streets of Istanbul protested the murder of Hrant Dink next day with the famous slogan of "We are all Armenian, we are all Hrant"
But these current news are irrelevant with my point. Yes, we, Turks, should critisize many things (nationalism, paranoia about world events, rising of intolerancy) but also you, as Armenian diaspora in the western world observe yourself and make a self-critisism. I dont only mention about several angry teenagers here, but the narrow minded Turkish hatred obsession covers all of your community. I am sure that most of you are kind, civilised people in your daily lifes. But when it comes to "Turks" most of you suddenly turn into vulgar racist groups. Ordinary good people suddenly turn into stubborn-minded (yes same adjective) militans who even support the murders of innocent people by ASALA for example. ASALA is just an example to face with your own truth. Yes, we Turks did not faced up to the crimes happened at 1915. I would agree with you and critisize the ignorant policy of the government. But also you even can not face with yours. Most of you who is probably nice and humane people can support the murders of ASALA just because they murder Turks. I can count you the wrong attetude of Turks, but I believe that you are not ready to count yours, because you, unlogically, believe that you are the victim and I am the criminal. You already made up your mind about eveything and what I only have to do is to confess what you want.

[Lucin]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

How dare you show up your mongol face at this moment. Leave us alone (at least for these days)...

[Esther]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

Esther, my point above is not the discussion of the genocide. You can believe that 1915 was a genocide. I may agree with you at some certain aspects such as the number of casualties, the suffering of Armenian population and also may disagree with you on the aim of the government, number of casualties, population facts, etc. But my point is irrelevant to them. What I mean is; why do you (not personally you) still continue a blind racist campain to Turks on the base of hatred? Almost one century have passed after 1915 and still there is no way to make a mature discussion with you about the facts because of your aggressive hatred. We can settle down, sit on the table and discuss about all our problems (history and today) and can reach a solution at the end (which this solution will help Armenia more than Turkey, Turkey is a strong country that can struggle against your campains, but on the other hand, Armenia have to make peace with Turkey to grow. People are suffering from hunger and poverty there)
Why do you act like: "confess the genocide or shut up you bloody asiatic mongolian bla bla bla..."?
Could I make a bit sense now?

What you have to understand is, that it has been a really heart-wrecking process for all Armenians. Like you've already said, almost one century has passed and the Turkish government is still denying what happened in 1915. And the murdering still continues (Hrant Dink). I don't know if you've recently heard about the murders in Malatya, but don't you think all the recent events proof us, which side is too stubborn-minded to open up? I don't know where you live or if you've ever experienced any Turkish fascism, but I think the hatred of many of us can be, if not justified for you , at least understood.(It is justified for me)
You should complain about your government, and not about people fighting for the truth.

[exfo]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

My dear exfo, I just wanted to let you know that I haven't accused you of being a barbarian, I accused you of being ignorant to the facts. I don't know where you get your information from, and it would really interest me what source tells you there hasn't been a genocide apart from Turkish News.
Then I would love to let you know, that the thing that happened 1915 was a genocide, while the things you are refering to cannot be called an "ethnic cleansing". So you are asking if we would forget the "hatred, if Turkey recognized the genocide???? Well, I can only speak for myself, but I would say I simply don't know how it would be like. I think you are smart enough to guess why. if you want to discuss this topic, there is a thread for that by the way

Esther, my point above is not the discussion of the genocide. You can believe that 1915 was a genocide. I may agree with you at some certain aspects such as the number of casualties, the suffering of Armenian population and also may disagree with you on the aim of the government, number of casualties, population facts, etc. But my point is irrelevant to them. What I mean is; why do you (not personally you) still continue a blind racist campain to Turks on the base of hatred? Almost one century have passed after 1915 and still there is no way to make a mature discussion with you about the facts because of your aggressive hatred. We can settle down, sit on the table and discuss about all our problems (history and today) and can reach a solution at the end (which this solution will help Armenia more than Turkey, Turkey is a strong country that can struggle against your campains, but on the other hand, Armenia have to make peace with Turkey to grow. People are suffering from hunger and poverty there)
Why do you act like: "confess the genocide or shut up you bloody asiatic mongolian bla bla bla..."?
Could I make a bit sense now?

[Esther]

Re: Turks, turks, turks....

Dear Esther, actually this part is really funny (or maybe my sense of humour is very primitive, at the end I am a barbarian, remember)
Regarding "fairytales mommy and daddy tell you" I think Armenians are to be blamed for these things. Because you are grown with horror stories that you families tell you.
Regarding the reason of those horror stories, well for sure Armenians suffer at WW1, during deportation (or you call as genocide) But the problem here is, almost every nation has these kind of horror stories. Turks also suffered at WW1. More that 1 million Turk is annilihated from European Turkey during Balkan wars, but we do not promote these historical pains like you pathetically. We do not wear "Balkan massacres T-shirts" or cry as "hey world, listen to us, Serbians and Greeks killed us at Balkan wars, poor us, we are victim..." So why you have this kind of obsession? Why you are that much "special"? Because Turkey do not accept it? So if Turkey accept it one day, will you forget Turkish hatred? Answers are no.[/QUOTE]

My dear exfo, I just wanted to let you know that I haven't accused you of being a barbarian, I accused you of being ignorant to the facts. I don't know where you get your information from, and it would really interest me what source tells you there hasn't been a genocide apart from Turkish News.
Then I would love to let you know, that the thing that happened 1915 was a genocide, while the things you are refering to cannot be called an "ethnic cleansing". So you are asking if we would forget the "hatred, if Turkey recognized the genocide???? Well, I can only speak for myself, but I would say I simply don't know how it would be like. I think you are smart enough to guess why. if you want to discuss this topic, there is a thread for that by the way