ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

Well we had communism in the soviet days and yeh it produced far better people because education was available to more people and for many other reasons. You can see the difference easily between two different government types if you go from one country to another.

I see you are looking at the world with nostalgia glasses, where everything that happened in the past seems to be better than it is today. Maybe I should post the text where the Assyrians are complaining how the youth is rotten and how much better the past was. Or would that be too ironic? Hmmmm............
The only good thing about communism was that everyone was screwed as the other one no one got the chance to get ahead, where the mediocre trivet. It is the system set in place to keep the best from reaching the top and the weak from getting stronger, a despicable system!
Yeah, it wasn't like the education was as corrupt as it is today and if you didn't have connections or didn't pay the bribe you couldn't get admitted to a university or couldn't pass the exam. So much has changed when comparing to today! (If you cannot tell, I'm really, really sarcastic.)
If socialism made people so much happier I wonder then why people got rid of it?

A good example is going from the USA which is not entirely capitalistic but more so then other countries- to a country like Canada which is a bit more socialist then the USA. You can easily observe that the Canadians are considerably more relaxed and overall happier and healthier then the people in the USA. If you look at the facts there is really no rooom nor need for sarcasm.

So what empirical tool are you using to calculate the level of happiness? Or are we just going to use stereotypes that cannot be checked?
If that is the case I can do that to. The difference between Eastern and Western Germany is more than enough to show which one can make a man more happy. There are people who described visiting Eastern-Germany, back in the days, as visiting a place where people didn't smile at all and no one seemed to be happy.

[Mos]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

These are typical results of capitalism. Nothing new or surprising there. This is one of the reasons i am against the capitalist system. Sure people don't need capitalism to be materialistic or self involved but this system produces it on a massive scale making it seem like the normal people are the unnormal ones.

Well a result also of us opening our legs to all sorts of filth entering the country, products of globalisation, liberal cultural values, multi-culturalism, etc. They are trying to have a "social revolution" in Armenia, to turn us into something we are not.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

Well a result also of us opening our legs to all sorts of filth entering the country, products of globalisation, liberal cultural values, multi-culturalism, etc. They are trying to have a "social revolution" in Armenia, to turn us into something we are not.

What are those liberal values entering Armenia? Armenia in the SU was culturally more liberal than it is right now. Yeah let us continue the fact that the Caucasus has always been a multicultural place since people started living there. Who are those people trying to change you and do you have any proof? Or are you gonna continue posting catchphrases?

[Mos]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

What are those liberal values entering Armenia? Armenia in the SU was culturally more liberal than it is right now. Yeah let us continue the fact that the Caucasus has always been a multicultural place since people started living there. Who are those people trying to change you and do you have any proof? Or are you gonna continue posting catchphrases?

Actually during SU Armenia was less materialistic, there was more modesty among people, more family values. I think the Western culture of 'materialism' can often pose problems and be a very negative influence for society. When I talk about 'multi-culturalism' I'm talking about a specific Western ideology that has been implemented in several Western European countries with disastrous results, with even the leaders admitting the great failure of this policy. With that policy you lose national sense of identity, you lose patriotism, you in the future lose your country.

The people trying to change it mask their efforts with several Western sponsored NGOs/advocate groups. They are trying to change the social fabric of Armenia because they think if our social values are at par with those of Western Europe, we will be a "better country". A very naive and dangerous mindset.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

Actually during SU Armenia was less materialistic,

Not having enough commodities to buy is not equal to being less materialistic. The Su economy sucked so much that they couldn't provide for the needs of their population.

there was more modesty among people, more family values.

The past always seems so better than what is going on now:
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"

Hesiod, 8th century BC

"What is happening to our young
people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They
ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.
Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Plato, 5th-4th century BC

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Socrates (apparently disputed), 5th century BC

I think the Western culture of 'materialism' can often pose problems and be a very negative influence for society.

Yes it is not like materialism is something human. it is not like people build something called the Silk Road to bring luxury products from the East it is not like the whole Chinese industry in the 16th century was build around the need of luxury goods of the rich and powerful! It is not like the Western Powers went to India to get spices that they didn't need. The only difference is that more people today have access to those things and that means that the living condition of the whole population is much better than it was in the past and that is a damned good thing if you ask me.

When I talk about 'multi-culturalism' I'm talking about a specific Western ideology that has been implemented in several Western European countries with disastrous results, with even the leaders admitting the great failure of this policy. With that policy you lose national sense of identity, you lose patriotism, you in the future lose your country.

How has it been disastrous? Or is it that there are brown people in Europe now? Every great empire in history has been a multi-cultural melting pot, from Rome to Persia to the US today. The only problem is that some people do not want the brown people in their country and the brown people do not want to assimilate. It's funny you as an Armenian are complaining when Armenians do assimilate and when other people don't, it seems some people never can be happy. How do you lose patriotism, look at the US the biggest the biggest melting pot and multicultural country in the world , people are running to go in the military and then you get Armenia where 95% or even more of the people are Armenian and people are running away from the army. So your little theory isn't really correct is it?

The people trying to change it mask their efforts with several Western sponsored NGOs/advocate groups. They are trying to change the social fabric of Armenia because they think if our social values are at par with those of Western Europe, we will be a "better country". A very naive and dangerous mindset.

So your problem actually is that you do not like people to implement things that you do not like?
Armenia today is not the same as it was ten years ago and it will also not be the same ten years later, change is something natural. if something doesn't change it will wither and just disappear. The only thing that is constant is change and if you don't make sure you change the world will move on and you'll be stuck where you were.

[Hyreniq]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

Some good news:

40 Armenian PVO/NGO-es and number of extinguished intelligencia representatives applied to the President to ban/decrease massive antisocial/criminal/prostitute life style propaganda through TV channels.
They presented scientific research which supports their immense concern that the TV programs have bad/antisocial/debilitating impact on our new generation.

What I'm afraid most of all nowadays?

Children that are watching contemporary Armenian TV serials and "learning" know how of becoming criminal/prostitute that are pictured there as the ultimate desirable goal for everyone to reach.

Indeed it's a good news!

I don't see anything's wrong with regulating "antisocial/criminal/prostitute life style propaganda through TV channels". Since whoever has money can have his own TV chanel and broadcast whatever he wants. It's like trowing your garbage wherever you want even when it's toxic. When it's very obvious people can have hidden agendas be it political, social or religious.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

Indeed it's a good news!

I don't see anything's wrong with regulating "antisocial/criminal/prostitute life style propaganda through TV channels". Since whoever has money can have his own TV chanel and broadcast whatever he wants. It's like trowing your garbage wherever you want even when it's toxic. When it's very obvious people can have hidden agendas be it political, social or religious.

Yes and next let us ask the government to tell writers what they can write about and let us not forget those journalists, they should also be told what to write. Why stop there we can start telling singers what to sing about! Also let's give the government the power to decide what we can say or not say. Who needs freedom of speech anyway! Instead of condemning BS and standing up for freedom people are actually supporting it! I can literally hear Tolkien, Tolstoy and Shakespeare turning in their grave.

Most people need dictators to take away their freedoms but Armenians are giving it away it willingly.

[Mos]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

Not having enough commodities to buy is not equal to being less materialistic. The Su economy sucked so much that they couldn't provide for the needs of their population.

No it's more a culture than anything else. I'm not a Communist in my economic beliefs, but I believe Western Capitalism along with benefits has also yielded this culture of materialism/globalisation that easily spills over to harming the social order.

The past always seems so better than what is going on now:
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"

Hesiod, 8th century BC

"What is happening to our young
people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They
ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.
Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Plato, 5th-4th century BC

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Socrates (apparently disputed), 5th century BC

I didn't say kids rebelling is not natural. But a natural childhood rebellion is different from your social norms being changed.

Yes it is not like materialism is something human. it is not like people build something called the Silk Road to bring luxury products from the East it is not like the whole Chinese industry in the 16th century was build around the need of luxury goods of the rich and powerful! It is not like the Western Powers went to India to get spices that they didn't need. The only difference is that more people today have access to those things and that means that the living condition of the whole population is much better than it was in the past and that is a damned good thing if you ask me.

Again, I'm talking about a specific culture of materialism that has risen in the past decades. "Acquisition centrality is when acquiring material possession functions as a central life goal with the belief that possessions are the key to happiness and that success can be judged by people's material wealth.[4]"

How has it been disastrous? Or is it that there are brown people in Europe now? Every great empire in history has been a multi-cultural melting pot, from Rome to Persia to the US today. The only problem is that some people do not want the brown people in their country and the brown people do not want to assimilate. It's funny you as an Armenian are complaining when Armenians do assimilate and when other people don't, it seems some people never can be happy. How do you lose patriotism, look at the US the biggest the biggest melting pot and multicultural country in the world , people are running to go in the military and then you get Armenia where 95% or even more of the people are Armenian and people are running away from the army. So your little theory isn't really correct is it?

Been disastrous if you look at it from a European point of view. There's no more patriotism, cultural identity, and a receding of the dominance of that country's main ethnic group. I honestly don't give a rat's ass about what happens in Europe demographically, if Arabs become majority, I don't care, I actually have better relations with Persians, Arabs than Europeans. I rather interact with Muslims than degenerate European liberals.

I'm not complaining about others not assimilating. I honestly just don't care about others, just care about Armenians.

US army is better funded, they don't need draft, and they pay well to soldiers. Armenian army is not in such a situation, but saying everybody is running away from army is not true. I have several friends/relatives who served and had a great service. Sure it was tough, no one expects army service to be very easy.

So your problem actually is that you do not like people to implement things that you do not like?
Armenia today is not the same as it was ten years ago and it will also not be the same ten years later, change is something natural. if something doesn't change it will wither and just disappear. The only thing that is constant is change and if you don't make sure you change the world will move on and you'll be stuck where you were.

It should change, but we don't have to corrupt our values and culture for the sake of change. You change to have better governance, economy, education, but you stay away from destructive change to your culture and identity.

[gegev]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

Indeed it's a good news!

I don't see anything's wrong with regulating "antisocial/criminal/prostitute life style propaganda through TV channels". Since whoever has money can have his own TV chanel and broadcast whatever he wants. It's like trowing your garbage wherever you want even when it's toxic. When it's very obvious people can have hidden agendas be it political, social or religious.

Sure, many democratic/civilized countries nowadays are banning broadcast of violence antisocial/criminal/prostitute behavior praising TV programs. And that was one of the 40 PVO/NGO-es arguments.

I can’t understand the wild “democrats” that consider prohibiting something on state level; as violating their democratic rights.

The kind of brainless, I guess, may allow criminals owning TV channels and/or closing jails; as it violates criminals democratic rights to live free. Although I see most people in this forum do realize that anarchy is not one of the democracy synonyms.

Normal people (that is majority) have democratic rights too; to demand banning the kind of criminal/antisocial/prostitute behavior praising TV programs that teach/urge their children to become criminal/prostitute.

Even more; they have right to punish the ones, that affect their children. Don’t they?

People can't stay at home all day long to control what are watching their children.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: ShanTV increases singer production assembly line efficiency.

No it's more a culture than anything else. I'm not a Communist in my economic beliefs, but I believe Western Capitalism along with benefits has also yielded this culture of materialism/globalisation that easily spills over to harming the social order.

That's why now the Chinese are turning to one of the biggest

I didn't say kids rebelling is not natural. But a natural childhood rebellion is different from your social norms being changed.

It is the same, looking at the past with pink glasses and complain how bad things have gotten compared to the past.

Again, I'm talking about a specific culture of materialism that has risen in the past decades. "Acquisition centrality is when acquiring material possession functions as a central life goal with the belief that possessions are the key to happiness and that success can be judged by people's material wealth.[4]"

So how is it different to what the rich did in the past? Building their huge mansion, trying to outdo each other in luxury? How is their any difference? The only difference is that more people today have the money and the ability to spend their money on goods. And it keeps our economy growing.

Been disastrous if you look at it from a European point of view. There's no more patriotism, cultural identity, and a receding of the dominance of that country's main ethnic group. I honestly don't give a rat's ass about what happens in Europe demographically, if Arabs become majority, I don't care, I actually have better relations with Persians, Arabs than Europeans. I rather interact with Muslims than degenerate European liberals.

So in some magical way people that don't make up 10% of the population will replace the other 90%? There is more than enough patriotism in Europe, the word you are looking for is nationalism and I am more than happy that there is less of it.

US army is better funded, they don't need draft, and they pay well to soldiers. Armenian army is not in such a situation, but saying everybody is running away from army is not true. I have several friends/relatives who served and had a great service. Sure it was tough, no one expects army service to be very easy.

If an Armenians is given the choice to go and serve most will not do it, you can try and argue as much as you want but that will not change the fact that most people don't want to go and serve for two years. In the US they can chose not to serve and earn more and not risk their lives, but they choose to go and serve so maybe there is an other reason connected than multiculturalism.

It should change, but we don't have to corrupt our values and culture for the sake of change. You change to have better governance, economy, education, but you stay away from destructive change to your culture and identity.

You are again using such subjective terms that cannot be measured at all. Change is a constant, every culture in the world changes if it doesn't change it becomes obsolete and disappears.

Sure, many democratic/civilized countries nowadays are banning broadcast of violence antisocial/criminal/prostitute behavior praising TV programs. And that was one of the 40 PVO/NGO-es arguments.

So you don't mind giving me a list of all those countries that are banning shows because of those reasons?

I can’t understand the wild “democrats” that consider prohibiting something on state level; as violating their democratic rights.

It's really simple, you do not take away my choice to chose what to watch because you cannot raise your damned kid and teach it what is right and wrong!

The kind of brainless, I guess, may allow criminals owning TV channels and/or closing jails; as it violates criminals democratic rights to live free. Although I see most people in this forum do realize that anarchy is not one of the democracy synonyms.

Normal people (that is majority) have democratic rights too; to demand banning the kind of criminal/antisocial/prostitute behavior praising TV programs that teach/urge their children to become criminal/prostitute.

majority doesn't have the right to oppress the minority! There is a right for artistic expression what is next you are going to ban books you don't agree with or are songs the next or start regulating journalists or what people can think or can't think. Or is it what people can say?

Even more; they have right to punish the ones, that affect their children. Don’t they?

It is not TV's responsibility to raise your damned kids people, if you fail at raising your kid it is your fault not TV's!

People can't stay at home all day long to control what are watching their children.

You are kidding me right, that is the weakest excuse I have heard in my life. Because you cannot control your kids my rights can be taken away?