University Applications

[One-Way]

I've been trying to avoid this day as much as possible but I suppose it has to be done.

My applications for school are due pretty soon so let's discuss any questions I, or anybody else, may have.

I am applying to USC and Chapman University for Fall 2009 admission. Both schools require a Supplemental Application which consists of materials, portfolio, and essays for the film school itself. This means for I have to submit two applications for each school; one for the school itself and the other for the film school.

Chapman's applications are both due March 1. They seem less tense and strict about each guideline. I also have to prepare a two-minute video. USC's application for the school is due February 2. The application for USC Cinema is due December 1.

The best thing to do is to take step by step. As in, I should worry about the December 1 application, finish it and then move on to what's due in March. The USC Cinema application seems overwhelming but it isn't all that bad. Five out of the eight materials they want are things I don't have to prepare; photocopy of application form, writing samples, portfolio list, letters of recommendation etc.

The hard part is writing the Autobiographic Character Sketch, Emotional Moment Essay, and Creative Challenge. I'm not going to ask for people to read through my writing when we're done but some encouragement would be nice. Any tips? Suggestions? Remember, I have an ordinary application to fill out for each school (easy, considering there's only one major essay) and another, more difficult one, for film school.

:wave:

[Siggie]

It might be less of an issue w/ 2 schools, but I think it's helpful to get all the materials together organized by date due in a binder w/ a section for each school/app.
Applications suck and so does the GRE (or whatever standardized test, e.g. GMAT, LSAT, etc.; which you should be grateful you don't need to take).
I wanted to ceremoniously burn my GRE books when I got into my current program, but I've resisted as someone might want to borrow them someday, plus the books/class from Kaplan was really expensive).

If they all require personal statements (autobiographical whatever they call choose to call them) you can use the same one. I don't know if film schools are as hard to get into than PhD programs, but you might want to apply to more than 2 so you're not stuck waiting a year if you don't get into either of those 2.

Anyway, it'll be a b*tch now and looking back I'd rather set myself on fire than write another personal statement or take the GRE again, but it'll feel good when you're done. As you're working on them you can motivate yourself by thinking it might be the only/last time you have to do it.

So, Mr. Way... I do not envy the process now, but the idea of starting a film program must be quite exciting. :D

[One-Way]

Well, Siggie, I truly appreciate the motivation. Setting yourself on fire surely sounds fun and it looks like you had a fantastic time!

They all require something different but for the most part, they're quite similar in structure. A little tweaking here and there should be fine. As far as film school goes, USC, mainly, just wants to see how well you can write. Their guidelines, however, seem silly. For the creative challenge I have to write about two very different people who get stuck in an elevator on New Year's Eve. Basically, they want to see how vivid my imagination is and what I'll do with that story. Well, after all, I am applying for a Screenwriting major.

Film school, both undergraduate and graduate, are pretty tough to get into actually. I browsed many forums months ago and spoke with students who applied for Fall 2008. I viewed their progress and got an understanding of what they went through. Unfortunently, the acceptance rate is pretty low. They accept more freshmen than transfers; I'm a transfer. Each department (film production, cinema studies, screenwriting) accepts about 15-20 students a year. Pretty tough. The only PhD in film, as far as California goes, is in Film Studies in UCLA. I'll worry about that later but I'm sure that's much more competitive.

These two schools are my main choices but I'm thinking of also applying to NYU. They're more known for their graduate program but it's worth applying. Their main focus is on a film submission, which I'm pretty much done with editing. No other film school or university really interests me; except UCLA but I have my reasons for not going with them.

[Siggie]

I said rather than do it again... and it's also of note that I went through graduate applications 3 times (once for MA and twice for PhD, though 1 of those was pretty half-assed). I didn't say it was fun and I don't think you expected it to be either. For the programs I applied to, 1-3 students was typical, but there were probably fewer applicants. I think it up ranging between 1-10% for most funded programs.

Could you apply as a freshman even if you've completed some coursework? How far would that set you back. If it was really competitive, I might be willing to repeat a years worth of curriculum rather than getting rejected.

The more programs you apply to the better, but don't apply where you wouldn't go if you got in b/c that's just wasting your time, their time, and your application fee.

I'm curious what you'll come up w/ for the elevator scene too. Maybe you can share once the application deadline has passed. Good luck!

[One-Way]

Unless you're coming from high school, there's no chance as a freshman.

I can apply to a second-choice major for both schools, so if I don't get accepted to my first choice, I'll get in for my second-choice. The thing is, USC wants you to complete the supplemental application for your second-choice too. It's not easy, considering my second-choice would be film production and they require a complete "business" side as in business courses in their school of business. It would be easier to major in film production at USC and minor in screenwriting, but again, the requirements are much higher for production. I perfer screenwriting for USC, anyway.

For Chapman, I'm applying as film production. I can choose a second-major without worries, but I'm not too fond of their other programs. Their screenwriting program for undergraduate is not that great, from what I've heard. Their graduate program is much better constructed. I may try putting down film studies as second-choice; I wouldn't mind actually.

I'm curious what I'll come too for my elevator scene. 2-5 pages is the maximum length. Usually they say you can tell how talented a writer is in a 2-page script. Oh well, it seems difficult now but I'm sure when it comes crunch time, I'll be okay. If not, I'm in the wrong boat. I'll try posting them, maybe.

[Siggie]

I'm sure you'll get the application materials done w/ no problems. Just get started early enough so you there's room for inevitable delays that arise and no reason for panic/stress in the last days.

[One-Way]

I also wish I had some accomplishments under my belt. There are sections where I'll have to fill in any awards or accomplishments, any activities I participate in, clubs and communities I am apart of, etc.

I'll just write "Moderator of ArmenianClub." I'll move to the top of every list, unless Anonymouse/Siggie/nimda are applying to film school. In that case, I'll be right under them.

[Sip]

1. Apply everywhere ... narrow down later. Unfortunately applications cost money and they are not exactly easy to do but the more you can widen your options the better shape you'll be in later.

2. Apply as soon as possible when they start accepting applications. Deadlines don't mean you should submit your apps that day or that week. Deadlines just mean that they won't even look at anything after that. But schools typically start looking at applications as they come in ... and some even start sending out offers of acceptance way before the deadline rolls around.

Rejections however wait till after the deadline so that they can review them or to make sure they fill all their spots :)

[ddd]

I'll second what Sip said...find out if it's a rolling admission. If it is, send them in asap.

[Siggie]

Why wouldn't they wait to make their decisions? Wouldn't they want to get all of them in so they can accept the best of the whole bunch?

I know psych grad programs wait til all the apps are in...

[ddd]

Yeah I'd imagine that's how it is with programs which have a low number of applicants.

[Siggie]

*shrug* If a hundred or so is low. The relationship with the faculty and student and the investment in the student is different too, so making the right choice might be more important as well.

[Sip]

It depends on the school and the numbers I'm sure but most large universities (for example SC) get so many applications that they can't afford to wait to process them. They have to keep screening as the apps come in. Now I'm not sure about SC but from my experience, things typically get piled into 3 categories:

1. Obvious accept .. in which case there is no need to wait.
2. Obvious reject ... goes straight into garbage.
3. Accept if there is room.

Sometimes the very selective grad programs will give offers to the good candidates with a deadline to respond. If they don't decide to come, then they will go ahead and send another round of offers to a set from the #3 stack. But if all good students wait till the last day, you never know ... maybe you'll get an acceptance offer even if you are not the most spectacular candidate but are in the system waiting :)

Also keep in mind that admissions are not usually an exact science .. it may very well be that someone will look at an app and dismiss it as garbage, while another in the same department may look at it and consider it ok. But usually the stellar apps stand out so there's not much controversy over those ... but it still happens.

Another thing that goes on also is that some mid- to highly-ranked schools may pass up on the super candidates for scholarship or research assitantship positions because they may be under pressure to fill those spots ... the problem is that if you send an offer to a SUPER candidate, chances of that candidate accepting and coming to a mid- to highly ranked school is not so good... that super candidate is probably going to go to a TOP ranked school :) Strange but it does happen.

So point of story is every school will be different but if possible, apply early and make yourself stand out in every which way. And most importantly, follow ALL application directions very carefully .. you don't want to end up in the #4 pile of "incomplete app". :(

[Sip]

Ok while I'm in a rambling mood .. the other super critical issue is rec letters ... don't know if your apps require recommendation letters but they can really make or break you. The problem is, most people that don't read/write such letters often don't know how they are supposed to write them.

As someone who has read tons of recommendation letters and written quite a few in my day, I can tell you that there is never really a "bad" letter. They are all good. Afterall, no one is forcing anyone to write a letter. However, a good letter will rarely help. You have to have GREAT or AMAZING letters. The wording has to be very over-the-top. So if you get a work manager to write a letter that says "oh he is a good guy and he is always on time and very dependable etc etc" then that letter will essentially be worthless (and at times hurt your chances).

You need letters that say "WOW this guy is the most amazing guy I have seen in my so many years of doing whatever I am doing. He is so spectacular that he is set to become a superstar in this and that field ..." etc .. you get the point. Also it really helps when they compare like: "This guy is among the top 3% of people I have ever encountered" or something like that :)

So if you are going to ask anyone for letters, if possible, make sure they are going to write a VERY strong letter and not just a "good one".

[Siggie]

Great point about the rec letters Sip. It's really important b/c it's hard to sing all your praises yourself in your personal statement. Haha...

I'd disagree though, there are definitely bad letters. They need to be honest in the letter and the majority of the time (all of the time for me) you are asked to waive your right to see the letter and it gets sent sealed and signed over the flap or it's sent separately from your app. You need to be careful to ask someone who is going to be able to write a good letter because they're not going to lie. Some are nice enough to tell you to ask someone else because they won't be able to write you a strong letter.

Early admissions still came after the deadline for pysch programs, but I think for undergrad or huge programs they might take some before. The app for my current program was due like mid-Jan and I got a phone call early Feb which is reaaaally early. We usually hear back in mid-late March. There was a deadline to accept or reject. It was April 15 I think.

But again I think grad programs are different because the individual prof that will be the adviser will usually select his own student(s). It makes sense in that case to wait until all of them are in to get the best student, but also the best match in research interests.

[One-Way]

Grad programs are different but I believe these are rolling admissions.

I need three letters of recommendation. I'm going to ask my film professor who is Chairman of the Film Department -- as good as it gets. I was also going to ask the owner of a production company I worked for. Since he was once a film student and owns his own company now, I thought that may be a good idea. Third one, still debating.

What do I tell them? Especially, the professor. "Make sure it's absolutely amazing!"?

[Siggie]

Just make sure the people you ask have worked w/ you enough one on one to be able to say more than... yeah he's a good student, he was on time, etc. That sounds very cookie cutter. Of course some of them may write that way anyhow (1 of my profs was notorious for this, but I needed a letter from him because I'd taken 3 classes w/ him TAed for him 3x). I did have 2 strong letters so it turned out to be okay).
Ask them if they would be able to write a positive letter of recommendation. Just be up front if you have a good relationship with them. Say if you don't think you'd be able to write a strong letter, then please let me know so I can ask someone else. Otherwise, if you're worried they might be offended by that, then just ask if they'd write a letter and leave it at that. Most (especially academics) know you don't want one if it's going to be negative.

Make sure you give them enough time (at least 2 wks) and you get them all the materials (e.g. addressed and stamped envelopes, the forms printed out, etc). You might also give them your resume/cv and a copy of your autobiographical statement. That will help give refresh their memory or give them information they can use in the letter. It might also let them know what strengths/abilities you're trying to play up so they can support those.

[Sip]

Siggie speakems truths :D

It depends on what kind of relationship you have with the person. Actually, yah it's pretty important who is writing the letter ... a professor (especially one that has been around for many years) carries a lot more weight as they often write tons of letters and even a "good" letter from someone in that position may carry a lot of weight.

You should meet with them and as Siggie said, ask them pretty much directly if they would feel comfortable writing a strong letter as this is very important in your life and you are really hoping to get in etc etc. Say that you would understand if they are busy or can't do it. Now most people won't have the guts to say it in your face that they don't like you :) So you have to follow it up with a follow-up question to allow them to expand on what they think about you ... but indirectly. So ask something like "What do you think my chances are?" or "Do you think I have a good shot to get in?" something to let them indirectly tell you what they think of you :)

And the most important thing Siggie said is GIVE THEM LOTS of TIME .. and make it easy for them. Email or give them all your details like resume, grades (if they are good ;)) and other personal info. Make it as easy or them as possible to write.

Remember to keep reminding them once in a while ... people forget or get busy. You don't want to pester them every day but at least remind them every couple of weeks or just ask if they need any extra info or anything.

[Sip]

But again I think grad programs are different because the individual prof that will be the adviser will usually select his own student(s). It makes sense in that case to wait until all of them are in to get the best student, but also the best match in research interests.

That's very true ... if a professor wants a student, that student is pretty much in. So it's a good idea to try to build some relationships with faculty. It's not so easy when applying to a different school than where one did undergrad.

Of course not sure how film school works :p

[One-Way]

Wow, I'm getting more answers than I thought. So much so that I really need to sit down and read. Thanks to both of you.

I'll give them enough time, don't worry. The thing is, I wanted a film professor to write me a letter and I've only had two. One of them was an excellent professor who also teaches at UCLA. He's widely respected, has been on TCM and written film-related articles for the New York Times. His problem was that he doesn't like getting "friendly" with students. He keeps a distance and doesn't really like "talking" to them or getting to know them.

For this reason, I took another professor for my filmmaking course. He's also the Cinema-Television Department Chairman. I figured he'll get a good look at my films in class, and he'll be able to speak more about my filmmaking abilities. However, we won't submit any actual short films until after November and December, and I'll need these letters done by then. I actually got my first project back today and received an A so that's all he has to go by.

So in all honesty, he doesn't really "know" me to well, but we've spoke many times in person and through e-mail. I think if I explain my position and how eager I am for film school, he'll be glad one of his students is trying to do something. They're always encouraging us to try new things and get internships and be apart of film festivals. He already knows I made a short film for myself, so maybe I can let him see that too. I'll try talking to him.

Also, since I need three letters of recommendation, I was thinking he'll be one and as I said, a previous boss will be one. The professor will take care of my academia portion, while the previous boss will speak about my work-related abilities in filmmaking. For the third, should I look for another film related person or who should I go to?

I know of two people I can ask. My brother-in-law, who they won't know is my brother-in-law. I've worked for his business many times; written a script for an informercial, designed their website, etc. He's a Software Analyst, so it'll show another side of me -- working with graphic design, being creative in another light.

Or should I ask my English professor. She's a really great person with pretty good credentials. She has a PhD, and something like 6 MA's. She knows me pretty well and I got an A on all my writing assignmets in her class. She can talk about my writing, since afterall, I am applying as a screenwriting major.

Which would you guys say is the better way to go?

By the way, thanks again and Siggie, the A I got was the project I PMed you about. :o

[One-Way]

Okay, I'm going to have questions as I work on these applications so I'll be in and out.

When an application tells you to list three other universities you are applying to, should you tell the truth?

I've heard people say only list schols lower than the one you are applying to. Make it look like their school is the best on on the list. However, that doesn't make sense, it's worse, I'd say.

[Sip]

Sometimes it helps them make a decision on whether you will accept to go there if they offer you admission. They will consider what your chances are of getting into those other places as well.

Believe it or not, some lower-than-top ranked schools will actually not offer scholarships to very top students because they can guess that those students are not going to go there anyway and that ruins the chances for some others students that may need the funding and actually will accept those offers.

I doubt the choice will influence admissions much though ... it is mainly for scholarships and funding planning. They just want to get an idea of the chances you will accept the offers they give you. You don't necessarily want to put junk schools in this section, and you don't really want to make up stuff either. When in doubt, just be honest.

[One-Way]

My film professor wants me to write the letter of recommendation and he said he'll go over and edit it, then sign it and give it back to me. This is exactly what happened when I asked one of the guys I worked for in my internship. They're all so "busy" that they don't mind editing it, but they want me to write it so it's as good as I want it to be.

Can anybody help me out? Can I see some sample letter of recommendations someone as written you? You can PM me if you'd like.

Also, I asked this before but got no answer:

One of the schools wants three letters whereas the rest want two. I already have one from the Chairman of the Film-Television Department, an employeer from my internship from a production company, and for the third I'm thinking one of these two:

1) My future brother-in-law (they won't know he's my brother-in-law) who I've worked for in the past doing creative work. I've helped design his company website, I adapted an informercial, etc. Plus side is he talks about my creative side; graphic design, computer understandings, etc. Nothing academic, nothing film. I pretty much have film covered enough and academic I sort of have it taken care of with the Chairman, although not much.

2) My English professor from a previous semester. She's very, very nice and would do it for sure. I wrote 5 papers in the class including a research paper. I received an A on all of them and an A in the class. Plus side is she can talk about my academics, my writing, how I am as a student. I don't really have that in my other letters, except a little from the Chairman. She also has a PhD, maybe that can help as she signs her name.

I'm thinking English professor, what do you guys say?

[Chillaxin]

Well, if your employer from the internship can comment on your creative skills, then, I'd say go for the English professor. That way, you'll have all the bases covered.

[Sip]

Definitely English professor.

One-way, I'll pm you a couple of the many letters I've written later this weekend (have to dig up an old drive) but not sure how applicable they will be to your situation. But the write the letter for yourself thing is pretty standard... at some point I had to write like 5 for myself and it is VERY hard to make them all super good yet different enough that they don't all sound the same. :D

By the way, a couple of my own letters brought tears to my own eyes :)

[Siggie]

I can send you a couple but i'll have to type it up since they were to a school i ended up not applying to, so I opened them (I know, shame on me). One is more cookie-cutter and the other is fantastic. It's for a completely different field, so what's important in mine won't be in yours but you'll see how they need to be personal to be good. I don't think writing your own is a good idea and I don't think i t was right to ask you to do it.

[One-Way]

I agree.

When I asked my employer, who is more a friend, he said a lot of professors are open about the idea and I should ask my professor first. I didn't, but to my surprise, the professor suggested himself. I guess it is pretty standard, considering my employer also said he had to write his letters because his professors wanted it that way.

Maybe because I'm not applying for graduate level and I'm not/can't get personal enough with my professors. I imagine during film school, I will basically become friends with my professors and have to develop relationships. That way, they will be better equipped to write me a future letter.

Anyway, any PM's will help. I don't want you guys to go through any trouble so anything you have around will be essential. Just so I can get an idea.

[Siggie]

I can't find the cookiecutter one atm, but I have the better one. Can you pm me your email address? It's 1.5 pages and won't fit in a pm.

[Siggie]

..

Are you properly in awe of my awesomeness? ;)


..

[One-Way]

Does the applicant generally send the letters of recommendation out themselves or should the person mail it to the school? My English professor is moving to New York so when she writes it, she'll be living there. Should she send it to me and I put it back in another envelope or should she send it to the school?

This is all the information I'm given about the letters:

Undergraduate applicants should send the letters to the Critical Studies Admission Committee at the appropriate address below. Applicants are responsible for verifying that the letters have been received.

[One-Way]

USC's application is due February 1 and I am officially starting to panic.

I knew the due dates would approach me like a swarm of soldiers waiting to execute me but I am very, very scared. I don't think I'll be on this forum until after March 1, when the last application is due.

I'm so terrified. Bye. Forever, maybe.

[hipeter924]

I am at Uni. I will probably take 6 years to get the hell out of there.:evil:

[One-Way]

USC, guys. I got accepted to USC today.

[Siggie]

USC, guys. I got accepted to USC today.

Yay!!! Congratulations!

[KanadaHye]

USC, guys. I got accepted to USC today.

Cinematic Arts eh? I'd hate to see the tuition costs of attending a school of that nature :eek: Congrats, make us proud young skywalker :)

[Gavur]

USC, guys. I got accepted to USC today.

Congrats. hope your stay will be short!

[Haykakan]

Grats on getting in! Time to learn and party.

[One-Way]

Thank you all.

[Sip]

Hmmmm ... I was pretty sure I posted here after Siggie but not sure what happened. In any case, this is great news so Congrats!!! Again :p!

[Siggie]

I didn't touch it Sip. Maybe you never clicked post?

[Sip]

I didn't touch it Sip. Maybe you never clicked post?

I don't know ... maybe I'm getting old and senile :evil: Funny related/unrelated story ... so yesterday apparently I got a call around 9AM (was still asleep). That's usually the time when my alarm goes off so apprently in my sleep, I had picked up, answered it, and just fell back asleep again with the phone to my ear hahahahaa .. .the person who called me later said she could hear me snoring :laugh::laugh::laugh: I totally don't remember any of this. I did notice my cel was unplugged from the charger when I woke up about 1 hour later though.

[seruven]

I don't know ... maybe I'm getting old and senile :evil:

I'm suffering from Alzheimer as well. Today I took my glasses with me in case I want to take off my lenses, and forgot to take the lens cases.

And I also forgot that I had an exam today. Thanks god remembered that before the exam started .)

[karoaper]

Hey One. Good job buddy.
Have fun and make the most of this chance.

[LadySilver]

Congrats!!!!!!

[PepsiAddict]

Congrats! One-Way

[iFemale]

Achket Luys.

[Wowie]

USC, guys. I got accepted to USC today.

Congratulations to you! I have two Armenian acquaintances who are apart of the USC Flim School. Maybe you might know them. There names are Christopher Minassian and Troy Michael Minassian. The last time I saw them they were enthusiastically explaining camera rigging equipment to me hehe :>

[Wowie]

I don't know ... maybe I'm getting old and senile :evil: Funny related/unrelated story ... so yesterday apparently I got a call around 9AM (was still asleep). That's usually the time when my alarm goes off so apprently in my sleep, I had picked up, answered it, and just fell back asleep again with the phone to my ear hahahahaa .. .the person who called me later said she could hear me snoring :laugh::laugh::laugh: I totally don't remember any of this. I did notice my cel was unplugged from the charger when I woke up about 1 hour later though.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[One-Way]

Congratulations to you! I have two Armenian acquaintances who are apart of the USC Flim School. Maybe you might know them. There names are Christopher Minassian and Troy Michael Minassian. The last time I saw them they were enthusiastically explaining camera rigging equipment to me hehe :>

Nope, I haven't met them yet.

[Wowie]

Has the fall semester started for you yet? For the times that I have visited the USC campus, I have found it quite charming and beautiful.