Importance of Culture

[loseyourname]

How much of an influence does it have on your life? How much say do you have in it? Are you simply going to be your parents and your grandparents, or are you going to forge your own path and be your own person?

I think you all know my feelings on this. Culture is a trap, a brainwashing device that is divisive and factionalizing. If you must factionalize, at least do it based on personal preferences and viewpoints, not on a nearly unidentifiable genetic resemblance. I say learn everything you can, and experience everything you can. Never limit yourself in any way, and don't force your identity to fit in with tradition - create your own identity.

[spiral]

Individual identity is the most valuable possession of man. It is the essence of who a person is. One who does not have an individual identity, is not YET a “whole” person.
A person’s culture and religion form a great part of the person’s identity, however, it is the person’s grounded beliefs which make a person WHO he or she is. Our beliefs are what we live by, what we take actions and make choices upon. By “belief” I don’t necessarily mean religious belief. By “belief”, I mean what a person knows himself to be, and what a person knows/views the world to be.

[loseyourname]

Religion, culture, and politics are all indoctrination techniques that detract from a person's individuality and make you a little more like the crowd.

[spiral]

so you shun everything except for yourself?

so what do you have left to play with?

I'm not saying that these things make up who you are, but they allow you to excersise who you are.

[loseyourname]

I don't shun anything. I give all things equal opportunity. I don't simply stick with what I was born with and what I was taught by others. I learn for myself and I make my own choices.

That said, I don't identify with any religion, nor any culture, nor any political belief system. I don't need a spelled-out codification to pidgeonhole my worldview and make it neat and tidy to pass on to the kids.

And about that. I don't give a xxxx if my kids are anything like me. They'll have my genes; from that point forward, they can be whoever they want to be and they can be with whoever they want to be. They can believe whatever they want to believe.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname How much of an influence does it have on your life? How much say do you have in it? Are you simply going to be your parents and your grandparents, or are you going to forge your own path and be your own person?

I think you all know my feelings on this. Culture is a trap, a brainwashing device that is divisive and factionalizing. If you must factionalize, at least do it based on personal preferences and viewpoints, not on a nearly unidentifiable genetic resemblance. I say learn everything you can, and experience everything you can. Never limit yourself in any way, and don't force your identity to fit in with tradition - create your own identity.

What you are referring to as "culture" is more like a group. Culture is more than a group. No two people in the group are alike. Everyone knows that I am a freak for individuality. I love my culture since it has made me who I am. While I recognize my past, it does not hold me back from any future. No culture is ever isolated and all rely on interaction, but for the most part each takes some thing from others and adds it to his own. With that said, it is of my choosing to marry within my culture, not because I have to, but because I want to. There are many Armenians who do not necessarily abide by this, nor should they, it is only a matter of individual choice, precisely maintaining our individuality, which you are so fond of.

Such blanket generalizations such as "culture is a trap" ignores the fact that even you are a part of a certain culture, whether you might be conscious or not. Language, music, art, they are all culture. Different races have different cultures for cultures are simply an outward manifestation of any given people. If a certain people create a certain culture, then that culture is a reflection of those people. If those people disappear so does their culture, it is only logical. You stating that culture is a trap is tantamount to what Marx believed that our thoughts are merely a product of our class, and culture and family are nothing more than divisions holding us down. This ignores the fact that culture did not make man, but man made culture, for culture and ideas to exist there must be someone to think of them and express them, and culture is nothing more than the creativity of the human individual. The masses do not make culture, individuals do. There people who are culture creating, and there are people who are culture bearing. Most of the people fall in the latter category.

Language was just never adequate for anyone to express their ideas so culture takes other forms, of music and art, and certain myths and folklore, which contain morals and traditions handed down. The past, present and the future are riddled with culture and fused into one and man always finds a way to express himself within that given culture, through language, art forms, science, technology, customs. Expression is equivalent to culture.

Your assertion if taken to its logical consequences would make man nothing more than a silent dupe not able to express his individuality and just a grazing animal that eats and xxxxs.

[loseyourname]

I'm not denying the importance of culture in general as a tool for identification. But culture as indicated by literary and musical tastes, asthetic preferences, and political views is far different from culture as determined solely by ethnicity. It is that which I have a problem with, because it is not individually determined; it is based entirely on circumstances of parenthood and geography. I'm not naive enough to believe that all culture can be escaped, or even that all culture is a trap. I will admit that I am guilty of hyperbole in saying that. Even so, I am right to say that culture based entirely on ethnicity, as well as parentally indoctrinated political and religious beliefs take away from individuality and furthermore, encourage factionalization and are divisive. They lead to segregation that is ill-informed and to hate and vitriol.

Look, I know I've been awfully hard on you, and I know that you aren't that bad of a guy. I really don't care who you marry, and I'm glad that you are proud of what your ancestors did. You should be; just don't let it dominate your thinking. I'm sure it doesn't.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname I'm not denying the importance of culture in general as a tool for identification. But culture as indicated by literary and musical tastes, asthetic preferences, and political views is far different from culture as determined solely by ethnicity. It is that which I have a problem with, because it is not individually determined; it is based entirely on circumstances of parenthood and geography. I'm not naive enough to believe that all culture can be escaped, or even that all culture is a trap. I will admit that I am guilty of hyperbole in saying that. Even so, I am right to say that culture based entirely on ethnicity, as well as parentally indoctrinated political and religious beliefs take away from individuality and furthermore, encourage factionalization and are divisive. They lead to segregation that is ill-informed and to hate and vitriol.

Look, I know I've been awfully hard on you, and I know that you aren't that bad of a guy. I really don't care who you marry, and I'm glad that you are proud of what your ancestors did. You should be; just don't let it dominate your thinking. I'm sure it doesn't.

Of course when you say "culture", you can say the same for family. It is nothing but a tool to divide and factionalize. Actually, perhaps the most violent thing to divide and factionalize humans is politics, not culture, and we come to believe that culture can't be free from political matrimony. Politics is the pastime that thrives off dividing people into races, cultures, ideologies, genders, and religions. Is it any wonder why minorities vote Democrat? Or Christians vote Republican? Divide and rule. I see politics and culture as two different things.

My parents have never told me to hate other people or other cultures, they never raised me that way, and I'm sure neither did many other Armenian families. I don't deny some hardcore nationalists would, but that would pale in comparison.

For the most part, our culture shapes us as individuals, and certain attitudes and mentalities are conveyed in langauge, which I consider to be sacred. I don't see it as haphazard words, but as certain things expressed as a peoples' consciousness. When you learn to speak the language you learn something about those people, for example, romance languages, you learn that Spanish are a very warm people and that warmth is conveyed in their language.

Prior to Rome overrunnin the barbarians and creationg the factional groups and such, Athanaric of the Visigoths stated, "I have authority, not power".

[loseyourname]

There are warm Spanish people, and there are cold Spanish people. The same is true of every race.

Of course I agree with you about partisan politics. Nothing angers me more. But much of that is based on culture. Here in the US, there are very deep undercurrents relating mostly to religion and to what are referred to as "family values" that republicans have pandered to and democrats have largely ignored. There was a decent piece about that in the opinion section of the Times today.

I'm not trying to accuse the Armenian people, or any people, of narrowmindedness or ethnocentricity. I would never stereotype like that. There are individual who suffer these maladies, and there are individuals who do not. The ethnicity of these individuals makes little difference, though certainly there are some, notably xxxs and Muslims (note, a religious distinction, not a racial one) that are typically more insular and divisive than others.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname There are warm Spanish people, and there are cold Spanish people. The same is true of every race.

Of course I agree with you about partisan politics. Nothing angers me more. But much of that is based on culture. Here in the US, there are very deep undercurrents relating mostly to religion and to what are referred to as "family values" that republicans have pandered to and democrats have largely ignored. There was a decent piece about that in the opinion section of the Times today.

I'm not trying to accuse the Armenian people, or any people, of narrowmindedness or ethnocentricity. I would never stereotype like that. There are individual who suffer these maladies, and there are individuals who do not. The ethnicity of these individuals makes little difference, though certainly there are some, notably xxxs and Muslims (note, a religious distinction, not a racial one) that are typically more insular and divisive than others.

Problems between ethnic groups never existed, since prior to the rise of nation-states it was a world of interaction.

xxxs and Arabs are in conflict due to politics. Prior to World War I there was no such problem there, but when you introduce politics, which is really mass mindedness, then you have the problems you have, therefore making their problems not religions, but political which uses religion to deceive. You go there and ask any Arab why they hate xxxs, and most will say because they bulldozed their homes and shot their fathers.

[loseyourname]

There was plenty of fighting that went on well before the advent of the nation state. Tribal warfare was not as deadly, because the scope was not as big and the technology not as destructive. Nonetheless, I think you know damn well that human factions have been fighting each other since written language first came along to record it.

[loseyourname]

Of course, you are right to say that nationalism and politics do not help anything and only exacerbate the problem.

[Anonymouse]

That's not the point dillweed, it has not been the same, for people still interacted. The fighting that went on was between armies or mercenaries, not the entire population as nationalism and total war have done. Now we are at war with "Iraq" meaning all the Iraqis, that is why this country doesn't hesitate to use cluster bombs on civilians. Total war, nationalism, and nation-state, with their mass mindedness have created something unheard of before. Believe it or not there was "civilized warfare" prior to total war.

[loseyourname]

You just said exactly the same thing that I said.

[sleuth]

i assume that loseyourname meant stupid stereotypes by saying ''culture"'...(if it's so loseyourname a agree with you 100%)by following stupid stereotypes takes us nowhere and even more it makes us to look ridiculus..
Culture has different meaning for me though...
Can you deny the greatest impact of Hellenic culture in western civilization stode in oreder to reach its current form...?
Same goes to armenian culture... it makes us who we really are..our past ,present and future.., for me Armenian culture is ShirakaTsi,Horenatsi,Xachaturyan,Ashot yerkat,Komitas,Sayat_Nova(gusanakan arvest) and etc...Don't blend stereotypes with culture...they are NOT equtiable...

[spiral]

I think lose is on a different page here.

He’s talking about people, (Armenians I guess) who do not bother to explore outside their Niche. A lot of people stay inside certain boundaries, never attempting to explore anything outside of it, as they judge those who do. They live in borders, because they think certain actions are not of conventional cultural traditions.

I think that people need to be able to view the world/life in a more objective manner, and not cling on to what they’ve been taught to be right or wrong.
Decide on your own, choose what you want to believe, choose which side you want to take. There is no right or wrong, as long as it’s your decision and not someone else’s.

So is that what you’re getting to or am I off?

[sleuth]

spiral exactly!!! but it has nothing to do with culture :)...and giving enough place or room to ppl be free its a human problem ...that's all about freedom...and this word is provocative as fire. you don't have 2 eyelids in order to look freedom in the face...It's all about being free...Man is free,but not men... simple as ABC...There are no limits to freedom for one,there is no freedom for all.

call it whatever u want boundaries,stereotypees,judjmental ,full of prejudice...it has nothing to do with culture i guess...or i might be wrong...

[spiral]

True, it has nothing to do with culture.

But some people do alter their individuality in the name of culture.


I myself find my culture to be inimitable.

I love everything about our culture. From our music, to our traditions, to our "figures of speech".


Though it does influence all of us in one way or another, I don’t allow cultural “dogmas” to direct my choices towards a direction other than that which I see fit.

[spiral]

spiral exactly!!! but it has nothing to do with culture ...and giving enough place or room to ppl be free its a human problem ...that's all about freedom...and this word is provocative as fire. you don't have 2 eyelids in order to look freedom in the face...It's all about being free...Man is free,but not men... simple as ABC...There are no limits to freedom for one,there is no freedom for all.

call it whatever u want boundaries,stereotypees,judjmental ,full of prejudice...it has nothing to do with culture i guess...or i might be wrong...

Now,
the only thing I understood from this post was the first line.

Would you rephrase, or paraphrase please?

[Anonymouse]

Armenians that stick in their little niche are not the rule, but the exception. One cannot study the history of the Armenian peoples without studying the externalities and the other cultures that it was in contact with throughout the millenias, and how surprisingly it's survival is primarily BECAUSE of its interaction with the outside world, which is why they are resilient - able to draw on from many peoples and apply it to their own.

[Anonymouse]

And it should be noted that whatever Armenians stick to their little niche and boundaries do so primarily based on recent history, due to the behavior of the Young Turks during World War I, and the aftermath of constantly being exposed to "they tried to wipe out Armenians". This is perhaps an unconscious act that one cannot be blamed for, simply a part of the culture reacting differently to unintended consequences.

[spiral]

I don't know much about our history, but im going to take the class this Spring.

I shall pay attention.

[loseyourname]

I'm speaking of clinging to outdated and archait traditions that no longer have any relevance to the individual simply in the name of "culture." I'm not speaking of any one culture in particular. Let me give an example from Native America. Those native Americans who cling steadfastly to tribal traditions are stuck on reservations doing little for themselves or their children. Those who adapted to the times and adopted whatever they needed to suit their individual needs, rather than the needs of their tradition, have ended up successfully breaking the mold and have become important members of the modern world, much as I one day hope to be.

Love of culture is one thing. Cultural obstinance is quite another. The only thing I'm really ranting about is clinging to group needs, trying to keep old group traditions and colloquialisms alive at the expense of individual freedom.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname I'm speaking of clinging to outdated and archait traditions that no longer have any relevance to the individual simply in the name of "culture." I'm not speaking of any one culture in particular. Let me give an example from Native America. Those native Americans who cling steadfastly to tribal traditions are stuck on reservations doing little for themselves or their children. Those who adapted to the times and adopted whatever they needed to suit their individual needs, rather than the needs of their tradition, have ended up successfully breaking the mold and have become important members of the modern world, much as I one day hope to be.

Love of culture is one thing. Cultural obstinance is quite another. The only thing I'm really ranting about is clinging to group needs, trying to keep old group traditions and colloquialisms alive at the expense of individual freedom.

So by your logic, the Amish are backward peoples right? Why is it that certain cultures tend to stick to the past and not want to make the break into the "modern world"? So because the majority of the people are "progressing", those that don't want to 'progress' are backward? So what the majority do is right eh? This is the thinking that is implied by your reasoning, that what most people do is somehow right and this is the barometer of judgement. If you had your chance, the logical ramifications of your thinking would be to make all these people change into the "modern world", whatever that means. You might not like it, but then again, why would someone that is Amish tend to scoff at the "modern world"?

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Anonymouse So by your logic, the Amish are backward peoples right? Why is it that certain cultures tend to stick to the past and not want to make the break into the "modern world"? So because the majority of the people are "progressing", those that don't want to 'progress' are backward? So what the majority do is right eh? This is the thinking that is implied by your reasoning, that what most people do is somehow right and this is the barometer of judgement. If you had your chance, the logical ramifications of your thinking would be to make all these people change into the "modern world", whatever that means. You might not like it, but then again, why would someone that is Amish tend to scoff at the "modern world"?

I have no issue with the Amish. You're misunderstanding me. The Amish are perfectly happy people that do not exist in poverty and suffer from very few problems compared with other groups. Now, if the Amish moved to Los Angeles and attempted to retain the same customs, we would have a problem, as their way of life would not work here. All I'm saying is that every culture and every individual needs to adapt to the circumstances they live with to better their chances for success.