Prayer...

[dusken]

The idea of prayer seems to be inconsistent in the context of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Might it not suggest a lack of trust in God's plan? Might it not combat the idea of free will, which God allegedly granted to humans? Might it not ask for favoritism when all should be equal? Might it not suggest that God does not know you believe unless you tell him so? Am I missing something?

[ckBejug]

The idea of prayer seems to be inconsistent in the context of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Might it not suggest a lack of trust in God's plan? Might it not combat the idea of free will, which God allegedly granted to humans? Might it not ask for favoritism when all should be equal? Might it not suggest that God does not know you believe unless you tell him so? Am I missing something?

Jeez I was kidding about the praying thing! :D I'm sure I can sit here and pray until 3:00 tomorrow and it won't make a damn bit of a difference.

On the other hand, it HAS been found that people in hospitals who pray and believe in a power higher than the white coats who administer medication and such, tend to get better than those who don't believe in anything and don't pray.

I guess that's off topic though. :)

[dusken]

Jeez I was kidding about the praying thing! :D I'm sure I can sit here and pray until 3:00 tomorrow and it won't make a damn bit of a difference.

On the other hand, it HAS been found that people in hospitals who pray and believe in a power higher than the white coats who administer medication and such, tend to get better than those who don't believe in anything and don't pray.

I guess that's off topic though. :)

:) I am not accusing you. It just reminded me of something and thought it would make for an interesting discussion since the forum is so dead; it is either forum meeting talk or Wise being an idiot.

The hospital thing sounds interesting but that is delving more into psychosomatic connections. (Oh, and remember, when someone is in the hospital, their loved-ones pray as well.) As a matter of philosophy it seems to be inconsistent. It seems to go against the defined nature of God which could probably be used by itself to deconstruct the entire faith. As a matter of fact, "praying" seems to be more Satanic than anything else because it suggests power to the individual.

http://forum.armenianclub.com/showthread.php?t=2358

[dusken]

I believe it was in his special entitled "Be More Cynical" where Bill Maher discussed sports teams and how they pray to win. Facetiously of course, he said that if they lose it is because the other team prayed harder. He also observed how they thank Jesus if they win but do not get angry with him if they lose.

[patlajan]

If you read scripture carefuly you would see that the God of the old testament, bible, and kuran is a jealous God. Prayer is like saying "hey I'm still on your team, I havn't forgotten you so don't forget me". And there aren't strong messages of equality either. Especialy for those that don't believe. The difference is Christians are told to help those who don't believe to save their souls. While xxxs have to be born xxxs, and Muslims delclare jihad.

[dusken]

If you read scripture carefuly you would see that the God of the old testament, bible, and kuran is a jealous God. Prayer is like saying "hey I'm still on your team, I havn't forgotten you so don't forget me".

There are different kinds of prayer. There is prayer that requests intervention or favoritism that will suspend freewill.

And does God really not know your thoughts?

And there aren't strong messages of equality either. Especialy for those that don't believe.

Sure there is. Everyone is created in God's image. Love and respect eachother including your enemies. Brothers and sisters. This is not about non-believers because non-believers do not pray.

The difference is Christians are told to help those who don't believe to save their souls. While xxxs have to be born xxxs, and Muslims delclare jihad.

This has nothing to do with prayer.

[patlajan]

Sure there is. Everyone is created in God's image. Love and respect eachother including your enemies. Brothers and sisters.

Only Jesus says these types of things. The old testament and the kuran lean more towards and eye for an eye and tooth for tooth. There is an instance of genocide in the old testament, and mohamed was a warrior.

This is not about non-believers because non-believers do not pray

Sure it is. Throughout scripture there are other "idol gods" to choose from.

[dusken]

Only Jesus says these types of things.

Being created in God's image is Old Testament. And so is the 10th Commandment: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

[Sip]

Praying and the whole concept of prayer makes me sick. It essentially trivializes God and brings him to the same level as man ... who is man to converse with God? And worst of all, the kinds of prayers that are usually done ...

"Oh Lord I have done this and this and this and will do this and that so you in exchange do this and that." ... It's like a god damned sleezey middle eastern bazar with the wheeling and the dealing to get the best deal out of God.

I think Homer Simpson said it best when fighting with Flanders (if I remember correctly) ... "Flanders, there's no point in praying because I just did the same and we can't both win."

[patlajan]

Being created in God's image is Old Testament. And so is the 10th Commandment: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

Yeah but the characters in the old testament have no problem killing under God's command. Notice the difference? Killing and stealing for your own benefit: BAD. Killing and stealing when God says so: Perfectly acceptable.
Such is the trouble with those who speak for god from the xxxish or muslim persuation. If some religious leader says "hey take this land it is yours because the old testament says so" or "kill the infidels they are shameless" the mobs don't ask questions. If a christian preacher told me to hurt somone I would be very puzzled.

[dusken]

Yeah but the characters in the old testament have no problem killing under God's command. Notice the difference? Killing and stealing for your own benefit: BAD. Killing and stealing when God says so: Perfectly acceptable.

What is your point? God never intervened in that manner because he was asked to; he did because he was God. Nobody ever said, "Please God, allow me to phuck my dead brother's wife."

Such is the trouble with those who speak for god from the xxxish or muslim persuation. If some religious leader says "hey take this land it is yours because the old testament says so" or "kill the infidels they are shameless" the mobs don't ask questions. If a christian preacher told me to hurt somone I would be very puzzled.

If, in the New Testament, it said "kill if your priest tells you to and do not ask why," you would probably not be so puzzled.

[töö____müch]

The idea of prayer seems to be inconsistent in the context of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Might it not suggest a lack of trust in God's plan? Might it not combat the idea of free will, which God allegedly granted to humans? Might it not ask for favoritism when all should be equal? Might it not suggest that God does not know you believe unless you tell him so? Am I missing something?

.. LOVE without asking anything .. is my idea about praying .. it's simple
any comments ?

[dusken]

Comments? Yes. This is the Intellectual Forum and you have no place here.

[töö____müch]

I have no place here, you're absolutly right :) But do you think prayer have a place here in your " Intellectual Forum " ?

[dusken]

I have no place here, you're absolutly right

If you agree, you should not be posting.

But do you think prayer have a place here in your " Intellectual Forum " ?

Prayer itself? No. But the questioning of the philosophical basis of something, regardless of what it is, does.

[töö____müch]

You are right I don't belong here... but as long as your thread is available, I will try to say what I decide to say...in anyway I can...
Ok so what is your conclusion about prayer?
Is prayer the noise you make with your mouth? Or maybe without making a noise with your mouth... but still make a noise in your head, maybe..?
Show me your philosophical basis plz... :)

[dusken]

Another thread bites the dust.

Holy shyt. I think I figured out what you do: you open up a thread, you pick out one word and formulate an entire nonsensical post in response to that one word. My initial post is all you need to understand what I am saying. Stop responding to me.

[töö____müch]

I did what you're saying .. "about your initial post" and I responded .. So maybe if you can do the same and "understand my first reply", maybe you too all you need is to understand what I am saying ..
But why should I stop responding to you, it will be like I'm not respecting you, but of course you can stop responding first .. then we'll see
And btw, to figure out what I do .. you have to be me .. so untill then maybe you should stop figuring things for now.. thanks

[dusken]

I think for the first time ever I will utilize the "ignore" function.

[töö____müch]

I am trying to understand why you're Ignoring ..
Be happy, forget about me :)
gtg to sleep.. I would stay and play ignoring .. but I prefer sleeping, it's more healthy :)

[spiral]

There’s different ways in which you can look at prayer.

One- take a more religious stance. As Dusken is probably referring to, and somewhat criticizing., and another is a more spiritual stance. This I think is more of a comfort practice, rather than a belief that “God” will answer your prayer by waving his magic wand, or swaying his hands from side to side.

Spiritual prayer is not so much devoted to the God to which you pray, but more to YOUR God, to whom you seek comfort inn. I think this is a healthy disciplined practice, as opposed to those who pray to God, for some sort of physical or social change.


And as far as the practice contradicting Christianity, I think that the Christian God contradicts itself plenty. Whether it be through his demand of praise and unconditional devotion, or even his willingness to punish. Then again, people made 'God', and thus it has flaws and glitches.

[Anonymouse]

Prayer is no different in my opinion than the art of concentration or meditation all aimed at giving the self power and comfort. It is about reaching your inner self.

[Sip]

Prayer is no different in my opinion than the art of concentration or meditation all aimed at giving the self power and comfort. It is about reaching your inner self.

But unlike meditation or concentration, prayer is disguised as something else which is why I find it disturbing. I have no problem with meditation or concentration but assuming a God exists, to actually bring oneself to the same level as to converse and to make demands of such a being is just gay.

[hyebruin]

prayer is the most powerful and loving act any human can do for any other human(s) :) ---especially knowing that others are praying for you, it's such a humbling feeling...ever wonder how next day can change dramatically for the better compared to the previous?...i do feel the subtle yet powerful effects of grace as others pray for me, and i do the same in turn for them...even for those who do not know i am praying for them; they don't have to know, the act itself carries out what it's supposed to but certainly knowing it is a sweet reinforcement :) why can't we have a world full of love and kindness? :(

[Anonymouse]

But unlike meditation or concentration, prayer is disguised as something else which is why I find it disturbing. I have no problem with meditation or concentration but assuming a God exists, to actually bring oneself to the same level as to converse and to make demands of such a being is just gay.

Anyone who asks God for silly favors or to win a competition or get that car they've always wanted is gay. Moreover, anyone with the assumption that God doesn't exist and has the impression that prayer is something in which one asks God for this or that favor, is misinformed, to say the least. Prayer is not asking, it is a communion with God. Your assertion that prayer is asking something is reflective of material culture and how prayer is portrayed in tv, media, and movies or lame comedies. That is not prayer. Anyone who has read the Bible knows that it is not prayer. It is tuning in your mind with the Cosmic. In that sense, no, prayer is not different from meditation, or attunement. They are all one and the same.

While each may call it by a different name, without exception every religion and spiritual philosophy which has arisen since the beginning of mans experience on earth has universally identified the mysterious process of meditation as mankinds unique method of return to a oneness with God, or the Cosmic, or whichever word you want to call it. Each of these religions and philosophies guarantees that the mystical state of meditation offers wondrous gifts to the seeker who takes but a few halting steps along the spiral path of return to the so called divine center. And much indeed is gained in spiritually by the disciplined supplicant who enjoys the loving silence of the inner way. It is not meant for everyone, nor does one have to agree.

[Sip]

So care to enlighten us what true prayer is?

All prayers I have heard are either thanking God (i.e. trying to get on his good side) or reminding him what one has done in the hopes of favorable outcomes in the future. If not any of these, what other "communication" is there as I certainly haven't been exposed to any. And before you accuse me of not having read the bible which I haven't, I have been to church and I have paid attention to the "religious" around me.

As an example, from Bruin's post above it is fairly apparent that her favorite form of prayer is of the form of asking favors from God for others (i.e. "pray for someone else").

[Anonymouse]

Well, I don't know who you've been in contact with and what "prayers" you've observed but I'll tell you now, that asking for favors as you call it, is not what prayer is. Like I said, it is not asking, but a communion or attunement with God or the Cosmic. It is a nearness to oneness and to God, a mystic state, if you will. It is fixing and meditating your mind on God, or the Cosmic, by that we mean on that which is not you. It is surrending oneself to the Cosmic where the mind and the ego are melted in silence. It is supposed to be uplifting, and showing love in God, showing thanks. This whole "asking for favors" business is some gross perversion which is nothing like what prayer was, is or should be.

[hyebruin]

I think what mouse is trying to say is that prayer is a way of communicating with God/universe/cosmos and that it should be done on a regular basis, whether one is going through a hard time or not; to be connected to the universe is more important than getting the immediate gratifications of life, for they are but temporary, but strengthening the cord with God will empower us with boundless energy and vigor; now, there's nothing wrong with praying for certain things, however!!! He is wise enough to know what we need and what we could do without :) so as opposed to just asking for things, a better way of seeking that which we want is to ask for whatever is best for us and whatever it is that the lord thinks we need; because as 'smart' and intelligent as we are we do NOTTTT know what is best for us, for we do not have access to the master plan, the blue print of the universe; we are only looking at the world, at creation through our myopic sometimes foggy and scratchy spectacles, whereas the graceful force that sees all and knows all is continuosly trying to give us what we NEED as opposed to what we WANT...He wants us to learn certain lessons and grow a bit more spiritually before he gives us our earthly desires one by one or even perhaps all at once :) ~~every life is different, every plot is different, so many characters in the game of life~~

[Anonymouse]

That goes back to what I said, when one is meditating and seeking inner strength to overcome or gain something, it should not be a selfish thing, but that which you seek must not only benefit you, but moreover must benefit others.

[SagGal]

On the other hand, it HAS been found that people in hospitals who pray and believe in a power higher than the white coats who administer medication and such, tend to get better than those who don't believe in anything and don't pray.
That's true. A lot of doctors say that a person's belief in something and their optimism gets their energy high and their body fights to survive or something like that. The prayer is that strength. I don't know how though. This always inderested me.
But unlike meditation or concentration, prayer is disguised as something else which is why I find it disturbing. I have no problem with meditation or concentration but assuming a God exists, to actually bring oneself to the same level as to converse and to make demands of such a being is just gay.You're badmouthing a prayer, and yet it helps so many people.

[hyebruin]

right now there's a study being conducted that's due out in a couple of years where they're looking at the power of prayer BUT!!! here's the thing: the subjects who are being prayed for (long distance by those who do not know them) do not know if they're among the experimental or the control group! neat huh?they're going to look at objective measures such as health and disease assesment of these patients who are critically ill btw; i don't know if they're all cancer patients or if there are other patients afflicted with a life threatening illness; i guess it's also a multi-center experiment such that patients from diffferent centers around the country are participating in the study; it's great how this experiment has good control and is double blind randomized placebo; hopefullly it will have enough subjects to give it statistical power; i can't wait 'till the results come out!!! :)

[Sip]

... You're badmouthing a prayer, and yet it helps so many people.

People have believed in elixirs, potions, youth formulas, magic, witch doctors, exorcists, witch burning, supersition, UFOs, cosmic forces, alignments of planets, and many other things ... but that doesn't change the fact that they have all been idiots.

This is not to down play the power of the mind in the healing process and the health of the body as I have absolutely no doubt that a lot of healing actually begins in the mind. But to think that any of those things listed above have had any real impact is nothing but dumb.

My point in "badmouthing" prayer is not as to whether or not it can have any positive effects on the person who prays or the person whom the prayer is about ... the point I am making is about the rediculous nature of the activity itself and the lack of intelligence shown by those who engage in it or are fooled by it's "magical" powers. The magic that happens is in our MIND ...

... as anon said and I strongly agree with him, the meditation and focusing aspects of prayer are what is important. But majority of people don't think like anon and use prayer as a tool to feed their egos and essentially make deals with their "God" on human terms. :(

[nairi]

Well, I don't know who you've been in contact with and what "prayers" you've observed but I'll tell you now, that asking for favors as you call it, is not what prayer is.

The Armenian church ;)

Hayr mer, vor yerkins es,
Surb yeghici anun qo.
Yekesceh arqayutiun qo
Yeghicin kamq qo
Vorpes yerkins yev yerkri.
Zhac mer hanapazord tur mez aysor.
Togh mez zpartis mer,
Vorpes yev meq toghumq meroc partapanac.
Yev mi tanir zmez i pordzutiun,
Ayl prkea i chare.
Zi qo e arqayutiun
yev zorotiun yev parq, haviteans.
Amen

Eatsern Armenian:

Hayr mer, vor yerknqum es,
Togh surb lini qo anune,
Togh qo arqayutyune ga.
Togh qo kamq@ lini yerkri vra,
Inchpes vor yerknqum e.
Mer hanapazorya hac@ tur mez aysor,
Yev nerir mez mer hancankner@
Inchpes vor menq enq nerum nranc,
Vor hancank en gortsum mer dem,
Yev mi tanir mez pordzutyan,
ayl prqir mez charic,
Vorovhetev konn e arkayutyun@
yev zorutyune yev parq@, havityans havitenic.
Amen.

English:

Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom
and the power and the glory, forever.
Amen.

[dusken]

What a boring thread.

[Sip]

Nairi jan, thanks a lot for that as that is exactly the type of prayer I was talking about! Our standard "Hayr mer" starts of with some Lord ass kissing, then moves to a bunch of demands as you highlighted, then back to some more ass kissing to wrap it up.

When I was in kindergarten they taught us to say that every night and I like an parrot would just repeat it every night before going to sleep. I am so glad I grew out of that!!!!

... and Dusken, why don't you go pray for a more interesting thread?

[patlajan]

Notice the people that pray the most are in the worst situations. Maybe God just needed some space in the last few hundred years. Like the father that threatens to "turn this car right around" if the kids in the back don't shut up.

[spiral]

I was talking to this one weird guy in my class yesterday, about religion, and the existence of God, and he said-- "Oh ya, I do believe in God, no doubt. I mean like the other day...like, I had a 600 dollar parking ticket, and like, I was like dudee how am I gonna pay for this??? And like I prayed to God, and I was like God, you gotta help me get outta this somehow, and like I went to court, and the judge dismissed the case/ticket, just like that, for no reason.... Uh, hu hu, I mean you can say it was luck, say it was chance, but I say it was God..."

[dusken]

He is human. I am ashamed.

[hyebruin]

What a boring thread.

not as exciting as being a registered embalmer :rolleyes: i know, i know ...life's a biiiiiitch! :p

[dusken]

not as exciting as being a registered embalmer :rolleyes: i know, i know ...life's a biiiiiitch! :p

Judging from your impressive display of intelligence, your far more exciting contribution to society would probably be bikini waxer or garbage collector.

Roll your little eyes to your death little girl. Then maybe I will get a hold of you and turn you into the clown you are.

:D

[hyebruin]

thought of the day: ignorance knows noooo bounds!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: aaahhh who you calling "little"??? :laugh: this is just toooo funnnny!! you ARE a dumba$$$ :( i'm not makin cheap comebacks cuz i don't know you...except that you ARE a dumba$$$ based on your behaviour :rolleyes: yeaaaaa those are MY eyes rollllin!! :laugh:

[spiral]

Here's an aphorism I read today which reminded me of this thread-

Incence_ Buddha said "do not flatter your benefactor" This saying should be repeated in a Christian church-right away it clears the air of everything Christian.

[dusken]

Here's an aphorism I read today which reminded me of this thread-

Incence_ Buddha said "do not flatter your benefactor" This saying should be repeated in a Christian church-right away it clears the air of everything Christian.

Well I can see how it relates to this thread but in what context was it said?

And what the phuck is "Incence Buddha"? And should it not be incense.

[loseyourname]

I was talking to this one weird guy in my class yesterday, about religion, and the existence of God, and he said-- "Oh ya, I do believe in God, no doubt. I mean like the other day...like, I had a 600 dollar parking ticket, and like, I was like dudee how am I gonna pay for this??? And like I prayed to God, and I was like God, you gotta help me get outta this somehow, and like I went to court, and the judge dismissed the case/ticket, just like that, for no reason.... Uh, hu hu, I mean you can say it was luck, say it was chance, but I say it was God..."

Remember a couple of months back when I had a $2000 credit card balance completely erased for no apparent reason? I never prayed, I don't believe in God, and I'm a pretty rotten person on top of it all. I wonder how your friend would explain my good luck.

By the way, I've also had a $600 ticket dismissed for no apparent reason. It was a ticket for driving an unregistered car. I still had not registered the car, but the judge let me off with only paying an $80 court fee. I also missed an exam on Tuesday that would have caused me to fail a class, only to find out the next day that the professor had decided to postpone the exam. This kind of thing happens to me so often, I wasn't even surprised; heck, I almost expected that she had done so.

[Sip]

Remember a couple of months back when I had a $2000 credit card balance completely erased for no apparent reason? I never prayed, I don't believe in God, and I'm a pretty rotten person on top of it all. I wonder how your friend would explain my good luck.

Well, if God exists and those kinds of things are act of God, then God is an idiot. :laugh:

Oh wait, sorry, ... I forgot .. his wisdom is sooo vast we just can't comprehend it. :rolleyes:

[ExtraHye]

Praying is nothing but a waste of time and energy, as nothing ever comes out of it. One needs to work for what they need and want.

[sleuth]

God is not a cosmic santa claus granting men their selfish desires, God is a holy God Who ultimately causes His purpose to come to pass in both eternity and history--time.

Prayer is a way to be connected to great and divine source of energy,its way to be connected to nature...it creates balance ,peace and harmony.

*Prayer is the key of the morning and the bolt of the evening. There is no peace without the grace of God, and there is no grace of God without prayer*Mahatma Gandhi ( he is not a Christian).

[spiral]

Well I can see how it relates to this thread but in what context was it said?

And what the phuck is "Incence Buddha"? And should it not be incense.


It was not said in any specific context, it was one of Nietzsche’s seventy-five Aphorisms, this one pertaining to/from the Gay Science.

Incense and Buddha are not together as a term. They’re separate. I typed it up carelessly. (I fixed it)

As far as the meaning of incense goes, In the gay science he makes reference to Frankincense, which I’m guessing is ‘khoonk’.

And as far as its relevance to the aphorism, I do know that Frankincense was burnt in alters during prayer, I think rooting from Pagan tradition, extending to Roman Catholic, to Christians. Israelis use Frankincense in their ceremonies as well.

[spiral]

Remember a couple of months back when I had a $2000 credit card balance completely erased for no apparent reason? I never prayed, I don't believe in God, and I'm a pretty rotten person on top of it all. I wonder how your friend would explain my good luck.


He is not my friend, he's some psycho who looks like a serial killer, and keeps sniffing my hair everytime my head is turned.

And he would say that God saw that you are more-so in love with the idea of being a rotten person, rather than actually being a rotten person, so God waved his hand and poofed away your debt, so that to prove to you, that he sees through you. :rolleyes:


awwwww, I'm so nice.

[patlajan]

It was not said in any specific context, it was one of Nietzsche’s seventy-five Aphorisms, this one pertaining to/from the Gay Science.

Nietzsche was an idiot.

[Anonymouse]

Nietzsche was an idiot.


So is the eggplant.

[patlajan]

So is the eggplant.

The great rat is in no position to judge.

[spiral]

Nietzsche was an idiot.


The great badrjan is no position to judge.

[loseyourname]

You know people, you can always edit your posts, instead of deleting then reposting.

[spiral]

Are you referring to small and great?

[loseyourname]

Indeed that is what I am referring to.

[spiral]

Okie, to answer your question, I didn't think it was worth editing a post made up of one short sentence.

[Inna]

Praying is nothing but a waste of time and energy, as nothing ever comes out of it. One needs to work for what they need and want.

I dont believe that is true. Prayer is not a waste of time nor energy. Prayer isn't ment for you to ask God to let you ace a test, or give you that car you've always dreamed of and I dont think prayer is about having some sort of "connection" with God, b/c you can feel that connection at anytime not just during your prayers. Prayer is a time for you to talk with God, to ask for forgivness, to ask for love and protection, and its also a time to ask him to take care of you and your family and friends during the times when you as an individual have no power or control of such things. For example, you can control the outcome of your test by studying for it and not just praying to God to help you ace it, but when it comes to things like health, war and things you have no control over then that is when you pray.

Speaking from experience: Praying does work, you just have to have patience.

[loseyourname]

Prayer is a way to make you feel that someone important cares about you. If it makes you feel any better, then it's worked. Go ahead and keep it up. It harms no one.

[Inna]

Prayer is a way to make you feel that someone important cares about you. If it makes you feel any better, then it's worked. Go ahead and keep it up. It harms no one.

It's not just caring about you, it's also taking care of you. I would rather have God, someone who knows my past, present, and future, some who knows me better than anyone else, to watch over me than my parents or my husband or my best friend.

Lose, those things that you mentioned before happened not because you didnt pray or you dont believe its because people who do pray and do believe pray for those who dont.

[loseyourname]

Cool, then I don't need to pray or believe. Good luck will come my way anyway.

[Inna]

Cool, then I don't need to pray or believe. Good luck will come my way anyway.

That may be so..but its what happens after you die that you might need to start worrying about. But since you don't believe then I'm guessing you dont believe in any kind of afterlife. I'm not judging here..for all I know I could be going to hell. Believing in God, I always have this idea that if I do something bad, whatever that may be, then I'm going down. (this is my own opinion and I am not saying that this is what everyone else should believe in)

[loseyourname]

I do good things because they are the right thing to do, not to get into heaven. If God cares more that you believe in him, then he is petty and selfish. I don't want anything to do with that God. I'd rather go down.

[Anonymouse]

I do good things because they are the right thing to do, not to get into heaven. If God cares more that you believe in him, then he is petty and selfish. I don't want anything to do with that God. I'd rather go down.

That coming from the man who is pretty narcissistic and selfish himself. One can say you're just as bad as that god.

[spiral]

It's not just caring about you, it's also taking care of you. I would rather have God, someone who knows my past, present, and future, some who knows me better than anyone else, to watch over me than my parents or my husband or my best friend.

Lose, those things that you mentioned before happened not because you didnt pray or you dont believe its because people who do pray and do believe pray for those who dont.


Inna, I admire your simplicity.






(I mean 'simplicity' in a good way)

[loseyourname]

That coming from the man who is pretty narcissistic and selfish himself. One can say you're just as bad as that god.

One can say I'm a lot worse. I'm also human. That behavior from a deity is unacceptable.

[Anonymouse]

That behavior from a deity is unacceptable.

Really? According to who?

[loseyourname]

All right, if you're fine with me as God, then I guess you're cool. I expected a little more from the guy.

[Anonymouse]

No, despite your love of yourself, I wasn't talking about you.

[dusken]

One can say I'm a lot worse. I'm also human. That behavior from a deity is unacceptable.

This is where you falter and attempt to define the nature of God which is one of my criticisms of organized religion.

However, for all you people know, the only ticket into heaven is suicide. Or maybe it is eating avocados. Or maybe it is having a lot of money. Maybe heaven is only for blacksmiths. The chances of prayer meaning anything is infinitesimal.

And that whole idea of "other people pray for you and that is why good things happen" is ridiculous. Again, this is trying to make a fact out of blind faith by asserting something that cannot be proven or disproven. God is a grain of sand; seek him out.

[loseyourname]

This is where you falter and attempt to define the nature of God which is one of my criticisms of organized religion.

Really, it's my criticism of the Christian attempt to define God. They say he is all-good and perfect, then go on to characterize him as if he is no better than a selfish, petty human being. I would like a little consistency at least, if they want to be taken seriously.