Prayer...

[dusken]

The idea of prayer seems to be inconsistent in the context of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Might it not suggest a lack of trust in God's plan? Might it not combat the idea of free will, which God allegedly granted to humans? Might it not ask for favoritism when all should be equal? Might it not suggest that God does not know you believe unless you tell him so? Am I missing something?

[ckBejug]

The idea of prayer seems to be inconsistent in the context of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Might it not suggest a lack of trust in God's plan? Might it not combat the idea of free will, which God allegedly granted to humans? Might it not ask for favoritism when all should be equal? Might it not suggest that God does not know you believe unless you tell him so? Am I missing something?

Jeez I was kidding about the praying thing! I'm sure I can sit here and pray until 3:00 tomorrow and it won't make a damn bit of a difference.

On the other hand, it HAS been found that people in hospitals who pray and believe in a power higher than the white coats who administer medication and such, tend to get better than those who don't believe in anything and don't pray.

I guess that's off topic though.

[dusken]

Jeez I was kidding about the praying thing! I'm sure I can sit here and pray until 3:00 tomorrow and it won't make a damn bit of a difference.

On the other hand, it HAS been found that people in hospitals who pray and believe in a power higher than the white coats who administer medication and such, tend to get better than those who don't believe in anything and don't pray.

I guess that's off topic though.

I am not accusing you. It just reminded me of something and thought it would make for an interesting discussion since the forum is so dead; it is either forum meeting talk or Wise being an idiot.

The hospital thing sounds interesting but that is delving more into psychosomatic connections. (Oh, and remember, when someone is in the hospital, their loved-ones pray as well.) As a matter of philosophy it seems to be inconsistent. It seems to go against the defined nature of God which could probably be used by itself to deconstruct the entire faith. As a matter of fact, "praying" seems to be more Satanic than anything else because it suggests power to the individual.

http://forum.armenianclub.com/showthread.php?t=2358

[dusken]

I believe it was in his special entitled "Be More Cynical" where Bill Maher discussed sports teams and how they pray to win. Facetiously of course, he said that if they lose it is because the other team prayed harder. He also observed how they thank Jesus if they win but do not get angry with him if they lose.

[patlajan]

If you read scripture carefuly you would see that the God of the old testament, bible, and kuran is a jealous God. Prayer is like saying "hey I'm still on your team, I havn't forgotten you so don't forget me". And there aren't strong messages of equality either. Especialy for those that don't believe. The difference is Christians are told to help those who don't believe to save their souls. While Jews have to be born Jews, and Muslims delclare jihad.

[dusken]

If you read scripture carefuly you would see that the God of the old testament, bible, and kuran is a jealous God. Prayer is like saying "hey I'm still on your team, I havn't forgotten you so don't forget me".

There are different kinds of prayer. There is prayer that requests intervention or favoritism that will suspend freewill.

And does God really not know your thoughts?

And there aren't strong messages of equality either. Especialy for those that don't believe.

Sure there is. Everyone is created in God's image. Love and respect eachother including your enemies. Brothers and sisters. This is not about non-believers because non-believers do not pray.

The difference is Christians are told to help those who don't believe to save their souls. While Jews have to be born Jews, and Muslims delclare jihad.

This has nothing to do with prayer.

[patlajan]

Sure there is. Everyone is created in God's image. Love and respect eachother including your enemies. Brothers and sisters.

Only Jesus says these types of things. The old testament and the kuran lean more towards and eye for an eye and tooth for tooth. There is an instance of genocide in the old testament, and mohamed was a warrior.

This is not about non-believers because non-believers do not pray

Sure it is. Throughout scripture there are other "idol gods" to choose from.

[dusken]

Only Jesus says these types of things.

Being created in God's image is Old Testament. And so is the 10th Commandment: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

[Sip]

Praying and the whole concept of prayer makes me sick. It essentially trivializes God and brings him to the same level as man ... who is man to converse with God? And worst of all, the kinds of prayers that are usually done ...

"Oh Lord I have done this and this and this and will do this and that so you in exchange do this and that." ... It's like a god damned sleezey middle eastern bazar with the wheeling and the dealing to get the best deal out of God.

I think Homer Simpson said it best when fighting with Flanders (if I remember correctly) ... "Flanders, there's no point in praying because I just did the same and we can't both win."

[patlajan]

Being created in God's image is Old Testament. And so is the 10th Commandment: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

Yeah but the characters in the old testament have no problem killing under God's command. Notice the difference? Killing and stealing for your own benefit: BAD. Killing and stealing when God says so: Perfectly acceptable.
Such is the trouble with those who speak for god from the jewish or muslim persuation. If some religious leader says "hey take this land it is yours because the old testament says so" or "kill the infidels they are shameless" the mobs don't ask questions. If a christian preacher told me to hurt somone I would be very puzzled.