how do you write the word "guest"...

[NarEkoO]

in armenian with the correct spellinG?

need it ASAP...thanks :wave:

[TigranJamharian]

Hyur Armenian H then Ye then U then soft r

[HyeJinx1984]

...further proof of what I said in the previous thread about this board NEEDING the Masis or Sassoun fonts so we can actually type in Armenian. Is there anything the admin can do about this?

[xBaron Dants]

Gaucho, the way you spelled is the correct one. Tigran spelled it in the stalinian way.

[sleuth]

Gaucho, the way you spelled is the correct one. Tigran spelled it in the stalinian way.


Hiour or hyur (I have been taught in stalinian way:laugh: )..if gaucho spelt it correctly does it mean *huys* should be spelt like *huis*??.Sounds weird.

[angelik22]

i thought it was actually h-y-u-r, although pronounced huyr- argh!! 8 years of learning armenian and i cannot remember how to spell this inky dinky word? im gonna go smack myself in the forehead now....

[xBaron Dants]

huys is written HI-VO-HI-SE

[xBaron Dants]

Keep in mind that hooys and hur do not have the same sound.

One is an "ooy", like "ooy, klookhs zargi" while the other is "u", like the "u" in the french word "ruse" (I can't think of any english words that have the same sound).

[sleuth]

huys is written HI-VO-HI-SE

To be honest,this way of spelling is too complex for me.But which one is right ,anyway?.Or there is no right and wrong.

[xBaron Dants]

In this case, the right one is the spelling used in Western Armenian. The spelling used in Armenia today was developped in 1922, at Stalin's insistence. The reasons for this new spelling was that it was the first step in the creation of a soviet language, and it also helped widen the gap between Armenia and diaspora. It truly is a shame, and should be corrected ASAP. The language suffers because of it.

[sleuth]

In this case, the right one is the spelling used in Western Armenian. The spelling used in Armenia today was developped in 1922, at Stalin's insistence. The reasons for this new spelling was that it was the first step in the creation of a soviet language, and it also helped widen the gap between Armenia and diaspora. It truly is a shame, and should be corrected ASAP. The language suffers because of it.

Aha!!.I know where are you coming from.They even changed the name of the letters ,alphabet (aip,ben, gim ...to A ,B ,G...).And ecxuse was really lame to make the language easy to learn and outcome is obivous,they stuffed up whole language and as you said there is a huge gap between Armenian and diaspora.And not only the language but we all suffer because of it,really.

Personally I have always been very proud of my perfect^ Armenian.
It kind of feels werid that it is not that perfect .
:laugh:

But then again I pronounce Hooys and Hyoor ,so whats the correct spelling??

[xBaron Dants]

Hooys is the way I pronounce it too. The difference is that the "new" spelling stipulates that you need to write both the "vo" and "hun" to make the "oo" sound, while orginally, a "vo" followed by a "hi" automatically produces the "ooy" sound. Same thing goes for my name, Vrouyr. :)

Also, when "ser" (love) is written with a "yech" (5th letter) instead of an "é" (7th letter), it messes with the word's etimology (sp?), because root words that have the "é" sound which changes to an "i" sound must be written with an "é". Ex: SEr becomes SIrel. Now all that probably made no sense at all, but I understood it. :)

[sleuth]

Hooys is the way I pronounce it too. The difference is that the "new" spelling stipulates that you need to write both the "vo" and "hun" to make the "oo" sound, while orginally, a "vo" followed by a "hi" automatically produces the "ooy" sound. Same thing goes for my name, Vrouyr. :)

Also, when "ser" (love) is written with a "yech" (5th letter) instead of an "é" (7th letter), it messes with the word's etimology (sp?), because root words that have the "é" sound which changes to an "i" sound must be written with an "é". Ex: SEr becomes SIrel. Now all that probably made no sense at all, but I understood it. :)

AHA!!Now i really got it!! I was confused hahahaha.Thanks Baron. I though I am lost case:laugh: but it all makes sence now.

[xBaron Dants]

West side of pic is arevmdahayeren, East side is as arevelahayeren..

[sleuth]

West side of pic is arevmdahayeren, East side is as arevelahayeren..

I am crackinggg uppppppppp :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

lollllllllllllllllll

oh well, we have something common...but i am pretty sure jhannam prounouces apush as abush :laugh:

[TigranJamharian]

further proof of western Armenian (arevmdahayeren) being THE solution!
letters have names.
it's AIp, Ben, Gim, DA, YECH, ZA, EH, ET, TO, Jeh, ini, Lun etc...
the way WE say it, aip, pen, kim, ta, yech, za etc...:D
So that in situations like these, you could SPELL the letters, (like normal people do), instead of calling a letter "soft R" :rolleyes:

now keeping that in mind, the word "Hiour" is spelled
Ho - Ini - Hiun -Reh

translation for arevelahyes: Hiun= pokr v
now it is also fair to mention that unfortunately at some points, our spelling is also different(eastern, western) for example, the way Tigran spelled the same word is different. now I don't know how right Tigran(dikran :D ) is, for unfortunately I haven't had the chance to master my arevelahyeren, but the way I spelled it is the proper way of spelling the word "guest" in arevmdahayeren.
thank u thank u

Hang me on the gallows and cut off my balls, im very very sorry mr guacho, but i havent memorized the aybuben. All i was doing was trying to be helpful, i could have gone and read the names. but the guy wanted it quick. Why start getting aggressive and saying things like western Armenian being the solution, I have my dialect you have yours, i happen to like mine better because iv been raised with that dialect in Armenia, I do happen to speak western Armenian too, being that a lot of the people i know in New york use western Armenian, it just doesnt sound natural to me, as im sure eastern Armenian doesnt to you, but deal with it and dont think you are going to get 3 million people in Armenia to suddenly switch dialects.
Now, there is no "hiun" in eastern Armenian, instead we have "u" which as i see western Armenian doesnt have.
Since you like the names let me do it over for you. "ho" then "yi" then "u" then "reh". Is that ok or are you still fuming that im not using western Armenian, or that i am doing a "stalinian" ? spelling. That is what i have been taught in school, as well as most of the Armenian population, now go and implement some reforms in Armenia to change the education system so that future generation be luckier than me and be taught this pure and correct spelling of yours.
Please dont call me Dikran, i hate that fu cking name, and i dont understand why every western Armenian feels the f ucking impulse to change my name, whether it was in Armenian school, where after i wrote down Tigran they would change it to Dikran on the roster or in normal conversation with people. wtf is up with that?
So much for trying to be helpful.

[xBaron Dants]

Wow la...let us all calm down.

First off, the "stalinian" comment I made is not something to be taken as offensive. It is merely a truth, and a sad one. Just like there should be no problems admitting that the Western pronounciation is flawed, there should be no problems admitting that the Eastern spelling is also flawed. It was a Stalin-pushed initiative, rejected by top Armenian linguists. Any truly patriotic person would accept these as facts, instead of hiding from them, and making it a "arevela vs arevmda" issue as it is so fashionable to do these days.

Actually, seeing such reforms in spelling in Armenia is one of my biggest dreams, just like reforms in pronounciation in the Diaspora.

As for people calling you Dikran... I can see how that gets irritating, as people always corrected the way I wrote MY name in Armenia :laugh:

[TigranJamharian]

I didnt take your comment to be offensive but i find it illogical to say that it is not the right way, when that is what has been taught in schools and is now used by most eastern Armenians. It is what is now accepted. Yes it is not what it was originally but what do you mean as the "right way". If the historically correct is what you mean then yes you are right, but it is the official way of spelling in Armenia now is it not? It is what 5 million Armenian would call right. And when i said there should be reforms and all i wasnt being sarcastic but supoorting the fact that the language shouldnt have been changed in the first place and if it is possible should be changed back to what it was before, but for now it is "the right way" in Armenia and for eastern Armenian abroad.

As for the name, yes its very irritating, especially when i would go and tell them to change it and even cross it out and write Tigran and the next class it would again be Dikran. I mean what the hell is that? cant i choose my own name.

No hard feelings of course brother im just getting stuff out there and trying to explain it from my point of view. Davai.

[HyeJinx1984]

You're right, it is the official way of Armenia.

Ararat is also officially part of Turkey. What's your point?

[TigranJamharian]

My point is that it is not only what is official but what is used by people in Armenia, so ask any eastern Armenian how it is spelled and they will spell it like i did. And yes it is part of Turkey, call it our national symbol or whatever else but you will be lying if you tell someone that Ararat is in Armenia. now what in the world is your point?

[xBaron Dants]

It is not right because it does not follow the linguistic rules of Armenian, which have caused the language to stall. This is why there are so many borrowed words from Russian. It is difficult to create new words when the linguistic basics of a language have been artificially tinkered with.

[HyeJinx1984]

My point is that it is not only what is official but what is used by people in Armenia, so ask any eastern Armenian how it is spelled and they will spell it like i did. And yes it is part of Turkey, call it our national symbol or whatever else but you will be lying if you tell someone that Ararat is in Armenia. now what in the world is your point?

My point is just because something is official doesn't mean was have to accept it, we can revolt against it in a way. no one attacked you, we're saying in general this is something we need to reform. Hangeest mina.

[TigranJamharian]

My point is just because something is official doesn't mean was have to accept it, we can revolt against it in a way. no one attacked you, we're saying in general this is something we need to reform. Hangeest mina.

Did you not read my post where i said it would be good to reform the system in the future so that future generations are taught the classical spelling? As for revolt i dont understand what you are talking about, how do you revolt against 5 million people spelling a certain way? all you can do is teach future generations a different way, and the old way will be slowly phased out. The reason i am getting angry is that you dont take the time to read all of what i write.

[HyeJinx1984]

Did you not read my post where i said it would be good to reform the system in the future so that future generations are taught the classical spelling? As for revolt i dont understand what you are talking about, how do you revolt against 5 million people spelling a certain way? all you can do is teach future generations a different way, and the old way will be slowly phased out. The reason i am getting angry is that you dont take the time to read all of what i write.

I did read what you wrote and I agree with you, that's why I'm saying there's no reason to get mad. So calm the xxxx down.

[spiral]

I don’t see how one is right and one is wrong.

However, I would have to say that I like the “stalinian” way much better.
I guess it comes down to which you’ve learned better, and are more comfortable with.


And if Stalin could come ‘fix’ English grammar, and make it so that gh would not be read “h” sometimes, and “f” at other times, I’m sure it would contribute in a positive manner rather than a negative manner.

Language is constantly evolving, growing, changing… Example: gh is written in the word ‘right’ because English originated from some Germanic tribes, the names of which I do not remember…Angles, and some other… I had heard a man speak ‘Enlgisc’ and he pronounced “right” ri-g-e-h-t the g pronounced with the actual g sound. So as the language evolved, the gh was not pronounced, but we kept the letters in the spelling.

So if the g, nor the h are actually pronounced anymore, would it be wrong not to write it in anymore?....no.


English is one of the richest languages, because just like America is the “melting pot”, as is the English language; which has one of the richest vocabulary, since we use words, and meanings from other languages. No other language has so many synonyms to words, as does English. And most of the synonyms have roots from other languages. We’re open to the change, and the open-ness contributes greatly to the language.


Take a look at The Canterbury Tales, compare ‘Chaucerian English’, to the 'Modern English'.


You cannot say that one is better, or more correct than the other.

Back to my point. Who says change isn’t good?

Simply because changes were made does not mean it is not as good. On the contrary usually when things are revised, they are done to make whatever it is, better in some way.


Also Baron, what do you mean by Eastern spelling being flawed, and Western pronunciation being flawed?

If Western Armenian spelling is the “unflawed” version, then this means that the pronunciation reflects off the spelling. So if you spell Tigran, Dikran, naturally you will pronounce it Dikran. My point; How can the spelling be ‘correct’, yet the pronunciation not?

[sleuth]

I think time is coming to abolish the dinstinctions between eastern and western Armenian.Thats plain stupid and childish.As long as someone is devoted to learn the language ,that what matters.They both are beautiful.

[nairi]

You can try using unicode fonts to type Armenian here. Like this:

հյուր
հիւր

There's also this transliterator:

http://www.genocide.ru/translit/convert.html

Type your text in Latin, translit, copy and paste here.

[Anushik]

You can try using unicode fonts to type Armenian here. Like this:

հյուր
հիւր

There's also this transliterator:

http://www.genocide.ru/translit/convert.html

Type your text in Latin, translit, copy and paste here.


Nairi you are my hero :)... thanks a loooooooooooooooooot...

[Anushik]

My point is that it is not only what is official but what is used by people in Armenia, so ask any eastern Armenian how it is spelled and they will spell it like i did. And yes it is part of Turkey, call it our national symbol or whatever else but you will be lying if you tell someone that Ararat is in Armenia. now what in the world is your point?

I agree with you... I wanted to spell the word but I saw your spelling and thought that you found the greatest way to spell... I didn't even thing to spell in Arevmtahayeren, even though I know very well that way of spelling...

[HyeJinx1984]

You can try using unicode fonts to type Armenian here. Like this:

հյուր
հիւր

There's also this transliterator:

http://www.genocide.ru/translit/convert.html

Type your text in Latin, translit, copy and paste here.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.... how'd you do that? Unicode fonts? I'm a complete moron when it comes to stuff like this so go step by step...

[Anushik]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.... how'd you do that? Unicode fonts? I'm a complete moron when it comes to stuff like this so go step by step...
I did it... it works... for example; you want to translate the word "guest"... tipe h y u r ... than click "Convert" (it automaticly converts to Armneian), then click "Copy", and than come to this forum and click "Past" ... and that's it... Wow, it really works :)

[TigranJamharian]

That could be used as a very good tool to teach kids the alphabet. i have an "Armenian keyboard" installed on my computer. basically you open the program and whatever you type is typed in Armenian. It shows you where each letter is and you can put it so that it is close to pronounciation with the english letter it is on or in the order of the alphabet. I will try to find the link.

[nairi]

HyeJinx, I'm not sure what computer you're using, but if you're using something like Windows XP, it should be there somewhere. If it's too much trouble, just use that transliterator link I gave. It converts Latin automatically into unicode Armenian, or Russian if you want. The alphabet system is very easy to learn. Just press ognutyun and it'll give you a guide.

Unicode is just a type of new font that you can post with in any alphabet and everyone who has a compatible computer can read it. If you're able to read my post, then you should also be able to post in unicode and everyone here who has unicode (generally automatic on their browser) can read it too. Great invention, huh? :)

Anushik: you're welcome :) I had posted that link here before, but people must've overlooked it :(

[Anonymouse]

Շատ ուրակհ եմ .

So how do I get the "kh" letter in that converter?

[xBaron Dants]

I don’t see how one is right and one is wrong.

However, I would have to say that I like the “stalinian” way much better.
I guess it comes down to which you’ve learned better, and are more comfortable with.


And if Stalin could come ‘fix’ English grammar, and make it so that gh would not be read “h” sometimes, and “f” at other times, I’m sure it would contribute in a positive manner rather than a negative manner.

Language is constantly evolving, growing, changing… Example: gh is written in the word ‘right’ because English originated from some Germanic tribes, the names of which I do not remember…Angles, and some other… I had heard a man speak ‘Enlgisc’ and he pronounced “right” ri-g-e-h-t the g pronounced with the actual g sound. So as the language evolved, the gh was not pronounced, but we kept the letters in the spelling.

So if the g, nor the h are actually pronounced anymore, would it be wrong not to write it in anymore?....no.


English is one of the richest languages, because just like America is the “melting pot”, as is the English language; which has one of the richest vocabulary, since we use words, and meanings from other languages. No other language has so many synonyms to words, as does English. And most of the synonyms have roots from other languages. We’re open to the change, and the open-ness contributes greatly to the language.


Take a look at The Canterbury Tales, compare ‘Chaucerian English’, to the 'Modern English'.


You cannot say that one is better, or more correct than the other.

Back to my point. Who says change isn’t good?

Simply because changes were made does not mean it is not as good. On the contrary usually when things are revised, they are done to make whatever it is, better in some way.


Also Baron, what do you mean by Eastern spelling being flawed, and Western pronunciation being flawed?

If Western Armenian spelling is the “unflawed” version, then this means that the pronunciation reflects off the spelling. So if you spell Tigran, Dikran, naturally you will pronounce it Dikran. My point; How can the spelling be ‘correct’, yet the pronunciation not?

Language will obviously evolve, there is no doubt about that. Just compare texts from Mashdots's era to texts now. However, it tends to evolve on its own with the evolution of the people that speak it. In the case of Armenian, the spelling changes were forced upon over a single night, and it has done more damage than good both for pan-armenian issues, and also for the sake of the language. Since the words changed their spelling, finding their root becomes more difficult, and this makes it more difficult to create new Armenian words. So instead of evolving, the language actually reaches a stalemate. It's normal that you find it better, because as you said, you have grown up using it. From a linguistic point of view however, the changes can't be considered positive. Anyways, the causes for "revision" was not improvement, rather a poltiical goal. As for english, I will not comment because I do not think that it is one of the richest languages in the world. A language that is unable to express certain thoughts is not a rich one, in my humble opinion.

As for the the western Armenian pronounciation, it refers to letters which are not spelled different in Eastern Armenian. We actually both write Tigran (Dikran) the same way. Yet Western Armenians have lost the pronounciation of certain consonants.

[bell-the-cat]

Do you know where I can get the Armenian unicode fonts, Nairi. I used to have a set installed on my PC. But lost them a while ago when I reinstalled windows. Originally, they were on Microsoft's website but they are not there any more.

[spiral]

Language will obviously evolve, there is no doubt about that. Just compare texts from Mashdots's era to texts now. However, it tends to evolve on its own with the evolution of the people that speak it. In the case of Armenian, the spelling changes were forced upon over a single night, and it has done more damage than good both for pan-armenian issues, and also for the sake of the language. Since the words changed their spelling, finding their root becomes more difficult, and this makes it more difficult to create new Armenian words. So instead of evolving, the language actually reaches a stalemate. It's normal that you find it better, because as you said, you have grown up using it. From a linguistic point of view however, the changes can't be considered positive. Anyways, the causes for "revision" was not improvement, rather a poltiical goal.

So what were the political goals? (I’m not criticizing, just curious. I’m not up to date-at all, with Armenian History.

As for English, I will not comment because I do not think that it is one of the richest languages in the world. A language that is unable to express certain thoughts is not a rich one, in my humble opinion.

What thoughts is it not able to express? The problem you may be having is expressing Armenian thoughts through English, and likewise it is sometimes hard to express English thoughts through Armenian. It has a bit to do with cultural manipulation of expression. It’s more so because of the differences between the cultures rather than the language, that you are not able to express certain thoughts.

As for the western Armenian pronounciation, it refers to letters which are not spelled different in Eastern Armenian. We actually both write Tigran (Dikran) the same way. Yet Western Armenians have lost the pronounciation of certain consonants.

We spell Tigran, Տիգրան,. So you guys spell it the same way, yet pronounce տ-D, and գ-k ?

So what is the difference between loss of pronounciation of certain consonants, and having an accent?

[spiral]

Շատ ուրակհ եմ .

So how do I get the "kh" letter in that converter?


Click on 0գնութիուն theres a table. You need to type an x.

[xBaron Dants]

What are these Armenian fonts that everyone's typing? I just see black bars..

As for the political motives: first one was taking the first step towards the creation of a pan-soviet language, and the second one was widening the gap between Armenia and diaspora, as I said earlier in this thread. And it worked..

[TigranJamharian]

http://www.freenet.am/armnls/

[xBaron Dants]

I still only see squares.... :(

[TigranJamharian]

try this: right click on the screen, on nothing specific. when the menu comes up, go to "encoding" and then make sure "auto select" has a check next to it, then go see below and click on western european(iso), see if it works then, thats how mine are set up and it seems to be working so try it out.

[xBaron Dants]

Still boxes....damn those boxes!

Akh Tigran, whatever shall I do??

[nairi]

Baron: go to View on your browser, then Character encoding > UTF-8 (or Unicode default). Are you using IE 6? If so, you should have no problems viewing these fonts. If not, then get yourself a new browser :) Mozilla works too. And/or install these fonts:

Steve, pazhalsta: http://www.armunicode.org/en/

[nairi]

http://www.freenet.am/armnls/

This is not unicode. These are the old fonts, and the ones you need to view pages like these:

http://www.distancelearning.am/armenian_poetry/

Or http://www.bnagir.am/

You can convert these fonts to unicode with that genocide.ru transliterator.

Also, I think if you use Mozilla you'll be best off. Try http://www.mozilla.org/

The Character Encoding has practically all languages around the world, including Armenian ARMSCII, and unicode. No need to install anything anymore. Plus you can use it to type on the net.

[sleuth]

You can try using unicode fonts to type Armenian here. Like this:

հյուր
հիւր

There's also this transliterator:

http://www.genocide.ru/translit/convert.html

Type your text in Latin, translit, copy and paste here.

Bloody hell,it's not working in my computer,I want it badly.S.O.S


Please dont call me Dikran, i hate that fu cking name, and i dont understand why every western Armenian feels the f ucking impulse to change my name, whether it was in Armenian school, where after i wrote down Tigran they would change it to Dikran on the roster or in normal conversation with people. wtf is up with that?


Anunet inchpes e artasanvum,karevor che.Dranits voraket ev bovandakutyunet chi boxvum.Dikran te Tigran nuyn uglaviknes.

[nairi]

and the second one was widening the gap between Armenia and diaspora, as I said earlier in this thread. And it worked..

It would be stupid to let something like that happen. I don't see a problem at all in simplifying our spelling. Let's face it, we don't speak Mashtotsian Armenian anymore (if we ever did!). Armenian spelling has gone through at least 2 major changes: Middle Armenian and Modern Armenian. All these people trying to hang on to a spelling system that is of little to no use for Modern Armenian are retarted to say the least. Let's move on with the times and spell according to the way we speak. I think Soviet Armenian did a good job in standardizing Eastern Armenian and simplifying the spelling. Armenian has never been easier to learn! And that's the way it should be. Why complicate things when they can be simplified?

[xBaron Dants]

I think Soviet Armenian did a good job in standardizing Eastern Armenian and simplifying the spelling. Armenian has never been easier to learn!

It has also never been easier to kill... Just look around the streets of Yerevan, or read newspapers from Armenia. Words that could so easily be said in Armenian are replaced with Russian words with Armenian letters. The spelling used outside of Armenia(which has nothing to do with Mashotsian Armenian, by the way) is not complicated, just slightly different. As for its use to modern Armenian, it is actually tremendous. At an age where new words are popping up every day due to technologial advances, we can either make real Armenian words or use foreign words, which basically turns Armenian into a relic of the past.

And to conclude that people like me are "retarded to say the least" is um....very....un-retarded of you.

[nairi]

Hmm, I don't see what new vocabulary has to do with spelling...

It is retarded in the sense of old-fashioned. What's the use of spelling a word with a y when the y is either not even pronounced, or pronounced as a h, to give just one example? Reminds me of English: half the letters used in most words are completely useless. It's just this traditional thing that people want to hang on to, even though it's completely outdated, not to mention that it complicates things unnecessarily.

Plus, I was talking about Eastern Armenian. I follow East, because it's a lot more logical to the way I speak, and I don't see how this is creating a (political) gap between Easterners and Westerners. Western Armenian is taught to this day in Armenia. Nothing shows that Armenia is trying to eradicate that variety or degrade it. These are just myths made up by the diaspora who clearly either have their own agendas or have no idea what they're talking about. If it were true then school kids in Armenia wouldn't be reading Baronian and Varoujan in the original, or older Eastern writers like Tumanian and Isahakian.

[nairi]

I have a personal problem with all old-fashioned people trying to defend something that is long gone dead. Move on with the times, is my motto. It's like refusing to update this forum's software because you have become so attached to the old one. Fact is that the new software will probably not only function better, it will still give you the opportunity to do what you want to do: namely post messages here.

I don't care that we have two different spelling systems (although the Western one still hasn't been standardized: everyone is writing however they want; as opposed to the Eastern one that has been standardized - irregardless). I follow the Standard Eastern one because I have consciously chosen to do so. I grew up with both. The Standard Eastern one attracts me more because of the reason I gave. I'm a born and bred diasporan, albeit not a Western one.

My initial reply was to this:

and the second one was widening the gap between Armenia and diaspora, as I said earlier in this thread. And it worked..

Which I find a myth.

The reason those Armenians looked down on you was probably because you were singing stupid songs. Kudos to them!

[xBaron Dants]

Hmm, I don't see what new vocabulary has to do with spelling...

It is retarded in the sense of old-fashioned. What's the use of spelling a word with a y when the y is either not even pronounced, or pronounced as a h, to give just one example? Reminds me of English: half the letters used in most words are completely useless. It's just this traditional thing that people want to hang on to, even though it's completely outdated, not to mention that it complicates things unnecessarily.

Plus, I was talking about Eastern Armenian. I follow East, because it's a lot more logical to the way I speak, and I don't see how this is creating a (political) gap between Easterners and Westerners. Western Armenian is taught to this day in Armenia. Nothing shows that Armenia is trying to eradicate that variety or degrade it. These are just myths made up by the diaspora who clearly either have their own agendas or have no idea what they're talking about. If it were true then school kids in Armenia wouldn't be reading Baronian and Varoujan in the original, or older Eastern writers like Tumanian and Isahakian.

About spelling and new vocabulary: while I have a certain interest in linguistics, I am definitely not a linguist, therefore the explanation I provide here may be blurry, and I am not equipped to give you a concise example either. Here is a simple one though:

The word ser (love). The verb is "sirel". Why is it not "serel"? Because "ser" is written with an "e" (7th letter), and not a "yech" (5th letter). The link between the root word, and the new word is therefore clear. While right now, nobody thinks twice before saying "sirel" instead of "serel", because the changes are new, things may not be as simple down the road, when the whole system used to create new words from root words is long forgotten. I don't know if you understand that, but you'll admit that I'm right 50 years from now :laugh: ...unless I get around to bringing the changes so many intellectuals want to bring. :D

Who said anything about a political gap? Why insinuate that people have "secret agendas"? The difference in spelling created a gap between diasporans and Hayastantsis because the texts of one became more difficult for the other to read. A gap doesn't have to be political in order for it to be important. And this fear of people with "hidden agendas" while they just express an honest opinion is sad... Nobody's attempting to invade anything; don't lose any sleep over it.

[HyeJinx1984]

The only person with a hidden agenda is me.

[xBaron Dants]

The only person with a hidden agenda is me.

You always did strike me as odd.

So what are you hiding?

[HyeJinx1984]

You always did strike me as odd.

So what are you hiding?

You wanna see?

*Rips open his trench coat, shaking his hips around* HEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHHE!!!!! *closes his trench coat and runs off to go terrorize someone else*

[nairi]

Hey Baron, the difference between ser and sirel is one of morphology. Sirel is derived from ser, and as is very common for monosyllabic words in Armenian they "alter" when they're derived. Shun-shner, tun-tan, sut-stel, tiv-tver, kat-ktel etc.

As for sirel, srel is not as easy to pronounce as sirel, esp. over time... Like gir-girer, but girq-grqer.

As for the gap: I believe it's only there if you want it to be, and only we can create it. It is possible to stick to one English spelling system (American, Canadian or British) and understand and read the others. East and West Armenian spelling are not difficult to learn for someone who speaks either one of the varieties fluently.

[HyeJinx1984]

*flashes Nari* :eek: *Runs off*

[xBaron Dants]

Hey Baron, the difference between ser and sirel is one of morphology. Sirel is derived from ser, and as is very common for monosyllabic words in Armenian they "alter" when they're derived. Shun-shner, tun-tan, sut-stel, tiv-tver, kat-ktel etc.

As for sirel, srel is not as easy to pronounce as sirel, esp. over time... Like gir-girer, but girq-grqer.

As for the gap: I believe it's only there if you want it to be, and only we can create it. It is possible to stick to one English spelling system (American, Canadian or British) and understand and read the others. East and West Armenian spelling are not difficult to learn for someone who speaks either one of the varieties fluently.

Yes, morphology. Yet there are certain rules that must be applied, and the traditional spelling allows that.

I think that it is not statesmen that should be making such decisions, but linguists. When Hrachya Ajarian, probably one of the brightest Armenians and one of the brightest linguists ever, refused to accept those changes, and signed his name "Hrachya Ajar." in order to avoid writing the "yan" with a "hi" as opposed to a "yech", it was a clear sign that something was wrong. We have a beautiful language, and there was no use to toy around with it.

As for learning both spellings...it DOES become a burden. People must first cope with the different dialect, which is very doable, but when two different spellings are used, it becomes too hard for an Armenian kid in Canada or the USA to differentiate. How will they perform on dictations? Mix them both? It does get too complicated, and for no real reason. Now imagine if both the diaspora and Armenia used the same pronounciations (the Eastern one) and the same spelling (the Western one)...everything would become A LOT simpler, and we as a people, a lot stronger. I can guarantee that under such conditions, the number of Armenians speaking both dialects flently would increase dramatically.

[HyeJinx1984]

As for learning both spellings...it DOES become a burden. People must first cope with the different dialect, which is very doable, but when two different spellings are used, it becomes too hard for an Armenian kid in Canada or the USA to differentiate. How will they perform on dictations? Mix them both? It does get too complicated, and for no real reason. Now imagine if both the diaspora and Armenia used the same pronounciations (the Eastern one) and the same spelling (the Western one)...everything would become A LOT simpler, and we as a people, a lot stronger. I can guarantee that under such conditions, the number of Armenians speaking both dialects flently would increase dramatically.

I can relate to this very well, being a diasporan myself who was raised with Eastern Armenian, but learning western Armenian right now. It is a burden and we WOULD be a stronger people if we picked one. I don't understand why we don't.

[nairi]

I don't think it's possible :) All languages break into dialects eventually. Such is life...

As for the spelling: there were linguists involved in the changes, although it is true that the change was triggered by politics. You see this everywhere. Just the fact that countries have "standard" languages says enough. Trouble is that linguists will never agree even on one thing. Maybe that's why it's sometimes better to have non-linguists pick out what they think is best. But again, I'm not displeased with Standard Eastern Armenian at all. I find it a lot more logical and easier! than old Armenian.

Btw, I don't think lack of strength is or should be a result of language.

[xBaron Dants]

No no....We shouldn't pick one of the dialects. Both are rich, beautiful, and have huuuuge amounts of literature and culture attached to them. Both dialects should, and will be kept. All I'm saying is that we should have one pronounciation, and one writing.

As for non-linguists making the decisions, I disagree, mais bon, let's just agree to disagree on that.

The language is not THE reason for our lack of unity and strength, but is one of them.

[HyeJinx1984]

Just to clarify things...

You're saying if I use the western spelling and gramer, but pronounce the letters in eastern Armenian (ex: Pen would be Ben) then I'm speaking "correct" armenian, or "original" armenian?

[xBaron Dants]

If you use western spelling, and eastern pronounciation, and any one of the grammars, you would be speaking "correct" Armenian.

[HyeJinx1984]

This is one of the things you have to solve when you become president. Oh, and answer you're PM already.