Greetings from Rhode Island

[AmerikanTurk]

Look forward to getting to know everyone! I'm a US born Turk who enjoys getting to know others with dual citizenship/culture/tradition. I ask people to reserve judgment until after getting to know me at least a little. I won't hide the fact that the "G" word is not in my vocabulary, and I don't necessarily want to debate it either. If provoked I will, but it's a fruitless endeavor for both sides, so unless you glean some sick thrill from giving and receiving disparaging put-downs with strangers, let's not go there. If that's your thing, bring it on, but I came here mostly to try and educate myself about Armenian culture and the history of Armenia within it's own borders. Meeting some kind and intelligent people would be a bonus. All the best.
-Murat

[TomServo]

Welcome, pari yegar, hoshgeldiniz, and all that jazz. :wave:

[Anonymouse]

Did you know that Rhode Island would not ratify the Constitution and so they had to blockade it and to force it to comply?

So much for "democracy".

[AmerikanTurk]

Hello TomServo and Anonymouse. Thanks for welcoming me. Yes Rhode Island is certainly an oddity of a state. We've been here since 1999. For such a small state, quite a few movies were filmed here such as Dumb and Dumber, There's Something About Mary, Me Myself and Irene, etc. Anonymouse, you like logic games? I am more into visual math types of puzzles. Here's one off the top of my head:

A farmer plants ten trees arranged in five rows of four trees each. How is this possible?

This is one I was able to solve very swiftly which is why I remember it. I'm a proud card carrying member of the "stupid Spanish girl club". Get it? If you do please don't give it away. Cheers.

[deniz]

Welcome to the forum, AmerikanTurk. :)

[Sip]

:D

New member:

"Hello I am Turk and I don't know the word genocide. Here's a math problem."

My Reply:

"Hello wow you are so cool welcome to the forum OMG OMG I'm so excited to know you. The answer to your question is a pentagram. Now here's a question for you: Suppose you could get a raise of $2000 every year on your yearly salary or $500 every six months on a six-monthly salary. Which one would you take?"

[TomServo]

Calm down Sip.

[Sip]

Sorry but math always gets me going :o

[karoaper]

perhaps egging us on is not the best way to seek a welcome into this forum.

meeting intelligent and kind people eh? you might, but from your inability to even utter the word that perfectly describes your ancestors' doings, I doubt we will (if ya know what I mean).

btw you're the first to bring up the topic of GENOCIDE (see it's not that hard to do).

[AmerikanTurk]

perhaps egging us on is not the best way to seek a welcome into this forum.

meeting intelligent and kind people eh? you might, but from your inability to even utter the word that perfectly describes your ancestors' doings, I doubt we will (if ya know what I mean).

btw you're the first to bring up the topic of GENOCIDE (see it's not that hard to do).

Of course it's not hard for you to do, and I don't fault you for it. Your brain is poisoned from birth to believe that all Turks young and old, dead and living, in the US and Turkey, civilian and military, tall and short, male and female, Christian and Muslim, blond and brunette, are responsible for the death and famine and mayhem that occurred 90 years ago. See most Turks living today realize they are hated, and they resent that they are fingered for crimes they did not commit. It doesn't feel good to be so hated, to be considered an enemy. Why should any Turk tell you anything that you want to hear, be it true or false, until you reach out and make a genuine effort to stop hating and de-humanising an entire population of innocent people? Personally I don't believe that admission of guilt will achieve anything. More likely it will add fuel to the desire of Turkey's neighbors to wipe Turks off the map. No disrespect intended to you or any other Armenian. These are just the views of a Turk born and raised and living in the US.

[winoman]

Amerikanturk - its really a shame that you aparently have little understanding of the Genocide issue (outside of the fact that such accusations make Turks feel badly) - otherwise you seem like an OK guy. In fact - most Turks I have met in my life (quite a few really) are really fine, friendly people with much going for them. Its just too bad that like you - most are quite ignorant and unfeeling in regards to the Armenians situation. And really now how can you expect us to be all friendly and nice to you until you make a genuine effort to tryly understand why we feel the way we do - I mean really understand - and stop generalising and de-humanising us (by your lack of respect ot our feelings etc). While an admission of "guilt" per say (really an aknowledgement of the facts and an empathy with Armenians and what was done to them in the period where you Turks have such pride concerning your victories and birth of your nation - on the backs of our people - etc) - while such an "admission" may not solve anything - it indeed is at least a first step that will perhaps allow Armenians to see you Truks as fellow human beings and not just a continuation of the oppression and denial of such. Think about it.

[AmerikanTurk]

Amerikanturk - its really a shame that you aparently have little understanding of the Genocide issue (outside of the fact that such accusations make Turks feel badly) - otherwise you seem like an OK guy. In fact - most Turks I have met in my life (quite a few really) are really fine, friendly people with much going for them. Its just too bad that like you - most are quite ignorant and unfeeling in regards to the Armenians situation. And really now how can you expect us to be all friendly and nice to you until you make a genuine effort to tryly understand why we feel the way we do - I mean really understand - and stop generalising and de-humanising us (by your lack of respect ot our feelings etc). While an admission of "guilt" per say (really an aknowledgement of the facts and an empathy with Armenians and what was done to them in the period where you Turks have such pride concerning your victories and birth of your nation - on the backs of our people - etc) - while such an "admission" may not solve anything - it indeed is at least a first step that will perhaps allow Armenians to see you Truks as fellow human beings and not just a continuation of the oppression and denial of such. Think about it.

I definitely will think about it. You are correct about the ignorance and apathy of many Turks on matters related to genocide. It isn't helping us to achieve any meeting of the minds, but I believe both sides are culpable when it comes to ignorance. I ask you to consider whether any Americans living today feel any remorse or guilt related to the slaughter of Native Americans or the slavery of Blacks. Ask any Catholics if they feel compelled to apologize for the atrocities of the Crusades. On a long enough time line, guilty or not, apathy will inevitably set in. Such is the case with many Turks, regrettably. It's no doubt the wrong answer, but it's something for you to consider in kind. Many thanks.

[winoman]

I definitely will think about it. You are correct about the ignorance and apathy of many Turks on matters related to genocide. It isn't helping us to achieve any meeting of the minds, but I believe both sides are culpable when it comes to ignorance. I ask you to consider whether any Americans living today feel any remorse or guilt related to the slaughter of Native Americans or the slavery of Blacks. Ask any Catholics if they feel compelled to apologize for the atrocities of the Crusades. On a long enough time line, guilty or not, apathy will inevitably set in. Such is the case with many Turks, regrettably. It's no doubt the wrong answer, but it's something for you to consider in kind. Many thanks.

In fact this issue has been discussed here before. I and I am sure many other Westerners do sometimes think about these things and feel badly (understatement). (and I'm being brief because I need to go) - but let me say that there are a number of differences. One - many of us are descended from immagrants who came (to the Americas) after these things and/or are not Catholic or connected in any way to such atrocities commited by the Catholic Church (some of us are not even Christian BTW...)...and yet - I still feel pangs of guilt/sorrow/regret/what have you concerning the legacy - particularly concerning slavery and the decimation of native Americans...and like I said this has been discussed here before. Another thing I should note is that neither our society nor our government nor pretty much any of our people are still today (if ever) blameing the Africans or the American Indians or those persecuted from the inquisition or whatever for the crimes. We understand that terrible things were done -and in fact in some case apologies have been delivered. In any event no-one would be so crass as to sling the king of BS toward an African American or a Native American as the type of s hit you Turks often sling toward Armenians. And face it - you and your government and your people have not had the maturity nor the sensitivity nor the intelligence to admit and apologize...even when it means perpetuating animosities and very seriously holding your own nation back quite a bit...think about these things some more....

[ArmenianKid]

Its all good for me. You are a Turk, does this matter to me? no. but bravo to you, i dont know any turks that would come to this website peacefully, the only other one to come was hostile form the get-go.

Did you yourself kill any armenians? of course not. Therefore i have no problem.

[karoaper]

Of course it's not hard for you to do, and I don't fault you for it. Your brain is poisoned from birth to believe that all Turks young and old, dead and living, in the US and Turkey, civilian and military, tall and short, male and female, Christian and Muslim, blond and brunette, are responsible for the death and famine and mayhem that occurred 90 years ago. See most Turks living today realize they are hated, and they resent that they are fingered for crimes they did not commit. It doesn't feel good to be so hated, to be considered an enemy. Why should any Turk tell you anything that you want to hear, be it true or false, until you reach out and make a genuine effort to stop hating and de-humanising an entire population of innocent people? Personally I don't believe that admission of guilt will achieve anything. More likely it will add fuel to the desire of Turkey's neighbors to wipe Turks off the map. No disrespect intended to you or any other Armenian. These are just the views of a Turk born and raised and living in the US.

I gotta tell you that the part about us being poissoned and holding today's Turks responsible for the GENOCIDE (comon try it you might like how it rolls off your tounge ;)) is an utter moronic blabber. The only thing we hold today's turks responsible for is the continuation of a cowardly and vile campaign to bury the memory of the genocide our people suffered in turkey deeper into the ground. That to us ammounts to yet another phase of the genocide. We will never stand for it and as long as turks do it, we WILL strive not only for recognition but the destruction of turkey as well. And no I'm not a diasporan (for the idiots who oversimplify turkey's problems).

[Crissy]

Our brain is poisoned from birth?? This is too ridiculous to even comment on.

Regardless, welcome to the forum and hope you can learn something.

[AmerikanTurk]

Our brain is poisoned from birth?? This is too ridiculous to even comment on.

Regardless, welcome to the forum and hope you can learn something.

No it isn't ridiculous, although I regret use of the word "poisoned" and I apologize. Perhaps "indoctrinated" is a better choice. This is all a matter of education, of textbooks and grade school teachers and parents and the state or "devlet" filling the heads of little ones with information that is in their interests to perpetuate, to borrow the word of another. Who can deny that Turkish kids and Armenian kids are taught things that are in direct contradiction? Who can blame us for becoming so polarized? Yet here we are, trying to understand eachother. As long as we're not resorting to personal attacks, we should salute eachother for having peaceful dialogue.

[ArmenianKid]

i guess you could say im neutral. the first instance i learned of the genocide was in a american school text book in elementry. not from a bitter grandparent.
i hvae never even stepped foot on armenian or turkish soil (unless you call glendale armenian soil)
i have learned mostly from text books about it. my grandparents wont talk about it.

[Fadix3]

Calm down Sip.

He's calm, he's just wondering, maybe you can answer his question? :rolleyes:

[AmerikanTurk]

i guess you could say im neutral. the first instance i learned of the genocide was in a american school text book in elementry. not from a bitter grandparent.
i hvae never even stepped foot on armenian or turkish soil (unless you call glendale armenian soil)
i have learned mostly from text books about it. my grandparents wont talk about it.

I'm with you Kid, in a sense. My parents and grandparents never spoke of it and also never spoke ill of Armenians. Growing up in NYC, we would spend lots of time in Forest Hills, where my favorite cousin, Rustem lived. His best friend was Armenian. This was the first time I had ever heard that word before, at the age of 6 or 7. Like yourself, I can't help but remain as "neutral" as possible, as I lack a proper education in these matters. On the other hand, it's hard not to try to defend against or deflect the accountability being dished out in copious portions to Amerikan Turks. It's a big pill to swallow and it merits individual research and knowledge-seeking in order to draw an informed personal conclusion. I simply fail to understand what benefit is gleaned from the propagation of hatred directed towards Turks. It does little to further your goal of recognition. Instead it causes you to be dismissed entirely. Nobody wants to be hated for the crimes of whose who lived five generations ago. Faced with such animosity, it is little wonder that Turks deny everything. The thinking might be along these lines: "You wish I were dead, you want Turks wiped off the map, AND you want me to admit genocide? I don't think so."

Thanks for not counting yourself among those who wish for the destruction of Turkey.

[AmerikanTurk]

Welcome to the forum, AmerikanTurk. :)

Thank you Deniz. Feel free to weigh-in anytime.

[TomServo]

A Serb, a Turk, and a chick named Dia joining our forum in the last few days. We must be very interesting people.

[winoman]

AmericanTurk - you obviously choose not to think about these issues that concern us but to be content with your pat answers and shallow incorrect (a priori) observations. In this way you are no different then most other Turks who come to these forums.

[TomServo]

You haven't welcomed him yet.

[AmerikanTurk]

AmericanTurk - you obviously choose not to think about these issues that concern us but to be content with your pat answers and shallow incorrect (a priori) observations. In this way you are no different then most other Turks who come to these forums.

What tripe. Thanks for reserving judgment until a few days have passed since I signed up. How easy for you to dismiss me as "no different than most". Hopefully you are an exception. Hopefully there are at least a few who aren't completely prejudiced against Turks. I am here basically admitting my past apathy and ignorance, but hoping to educate myself and make informed decisions/conclusions. If all Turks did this, wouldn't it be a step in the "right" direction? Why is my effort dismissed? Accept it that in the process, I can and will say things that you don't like or agree with. If I am required to get out of my comfort zone in order to understand, then you should too.

[winoman]

yeah a hole - we are poisoned and indoctrinated and you know it all - FU!

[winoman]

the "G" word is not in my vocabulary, and I don't necessarily want to debate it either. If provoked I will

you will? So you are saying you don't believe and will debate any who do or who affirm it? yes?

Your brain is poisoned from birth to believe that all Turks

again, who is jumping to conclusions? Who has all of the answers?

Personally I don't believe that admission of guilt will achieve anything. More likely it will add fuel to the desire of Turkey's neighbors to wipe Turks off the map

Again conclusions when you admittedly and obviously know nothing.

No need for me to reserve judgement until you make some effort to prove otherwise. And don't think you at all understand me or my position - and certainly not without reading my past posts on this subject - which you abviously haven't done. And if you can't be bothered then neither can I.

[Crissy]

No it isn't ridiculous, although I regret use of the word "poisoned" and I apologize. Perhaps "indoctrinated" is a better choice. This is all a matter of education, of textbooks and grade school teachers and parents and the state or "devlet" filling the heads of little ones with information that is in their interests to perpetuate, to borrow the word of another. Who can deny that Turkish kids and Armenian kids are taught things that are in direct contradiction? Who can blame us for becoming so polarized? Yet here we are, trying to understand eachother. As long as we're not resorting to personal attacks, we should salute eachother for having peaceful dialogue.

In your other posts, you claim that you are mutual and know nothing about the Genocide yet you make assumptions of Armenians being fed lies. Just a suggestion, for someone that doesn't know anything, refrain from posting comments such as "textbooks and grade school teachers and parents and the state or "devlet" filling the heads of little ones with information that is in their interests to perpetuate," perhaps you can research a little more??

apology accepted.

[AmerikanTurk]

you will? So you are saying you don't believe and will debate any who do or who affirm it? yes?



again, who is jumping to conclusions? Who has all of the answers?



Again conclusions when you admittedly and obviously know nothing.

No need for me to reserve judgement until you make some effort to prove otherwise. And don't think you at all understand me or my position - and certainly not without reading my past posts on this subject - which you abviously haven't done. And if you can't be bothered then neither can I.

Point taken! I am in no position to judge, but you are deliberately baiting and provoking me, finding weakness and exploiting it. I never claimed to know it all and merely shared my VIEWS, however un-informed. Sort of ot on a limb here and being attacked... So be it. It's tempting to now simply exit this board and never look back, but sorry you won't get your wish. I didn't realize that reading all of your past messages was a prerequisite for qualifying as a contributor here. "Better to be thought a silent fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." You might have just said this to me instead of calling me an a** hole, birader.

[AmerikanTurk]

In your other posts, you claim that you are mutual and know nothing about the Genocide yet you make assumptions of Armenians being fed lies. Just a suggestion, for someone that doesn't know anything, refrain from posting comments such as "textbooks and grade school teachers and parents and the state or "devlet" filling the heads of little ones with information that is in their interests to perpetuate," perhaps you can research a little more??

apology accepted.

Thank you Crissy, but please don't put words in my mouth. I never used the word "lies".
What I was [poorly] referring to as it relates to "little ones" was the hatred being passed from generation to generation, not lies. I am not qualified to know lies from truth in these matters, yet. I have promised to research, and I also promise to have lots of questions too. Thanks for accepting. Thanks for being cool about my gaffes. I'm not here stating my opinions as fact, they're just my personal views drawn from my limited knowledge and experience. As opinions go, you know what they say...

[Crissy]

history being passed down through generations is not hatred, we have never been told to hate Turkish individuals. I am sure once you have done your research you will understand.

[TomServo]

The introduction thread that wouldn't die.

[Crissy]

hey Tom :) long time no see...

[TomServo]

hey Tom :) long time no see...
Hello there.

[karoaper]

history being passed down through generations is not hatred, we have never been told to hate Turkish individuals. I am sure once you have done your research you will understand.

I have never been told about Turks by my parents or teachers period. I've only had history and literature as a personal guide.

[Crissy]

I have never been told about Turks by my parents or teachers period. I've only had history and literature as a personal guide.

Me too, actually only started researching it in the last few years. At my previous job, our receptionist was Australian born Turkish, and she had no idea about it either, we kinda researched it together.

[winoman]

Point taken! I am in no position to judge,


Yes perhaps you are learning

I didn't realize that reading all of your past messages was a prerequisite for qualifying as a contributor here.

Its not - but don't presume to tell me that I have been poisoned/indoctrinated or tell me what I think about Turks or what not without reading what I have posted on these subjects - likely very differently then you might assume...

So OK - welcome - clean slate...

[bookmaker]

:D :cool: Look forward to getting to know everyone! I'm a US born Turk who enjoys getting to know others with dual citizenship/culture/tradition. I ask people to reserve judgment until after getting to know me at least a little. I won't hide the fact that the "G" word is not in my vocabulary, and I don't necessarily want to debate it either. If provoked I will, but it's a fruitless endeavor for both sides, so unless you glean some sick thrill from giving and receiving disparaging put-downs with strangers, let's not go there. If that's your thing, bring it on, but I came here mostly to try and educate myself about Armenian culture and the history of Armenia within it's own borders. Meeting some kind and intelligent people would be a bonus. All the best.
-Murat
:cool: :p :p :p him my turk friend,Im turk too.yes welcome.I live in cananda,and you cam see that these armenians always blame us for genocide.but they dont know that i the past we saved them from some enemies in history.I dont know whether you know the history well or not.were you born in turkey or in USA?In ottoman empire time they were treated very candidly,they were very faithful to ottoman turks,but once the ottoman empire began to dismember and collapse,they collaborated with the enemy(westerners,the french,the british)after some period they had complicity with russians during ottomans war against russia.because of their betrayal,Ottoman officials decided to exile them from te east regions of turkey,in this process abdulhamid for their security,alloted additional military squads,but as they were leaving,they died of hungary,thristy,drought,,,,,because of this they always blame us.we are innocent people.we always protected islam and other minorities in history.and they must know this fact very well.HOPE FOR THE BEST,BUT PREPARE FOR THE WORST... hope I helped you,see you!I wait your reply.bye........:cool:

[bookmaker]

:eek: [QUOTE=deniz]Welcome to the forum, AmerikanTurk[



hi my turkish friend!how could you find this ottoman symbol?can you say?we must always defend our rights in this forum.because we are always being incured injustice....how about?see you?take care of yourself.bye....::wave: :wave: :wave:

[crusader1492]

Wow, I've been reading a lot of these threads and I come to the conclusion that this Bookmaker guy is an accomplished whack-job. I actually like reading his posts though...he's embarrassingly funny (as are most of the turks on this site)!:laugh:

[TomServo]

And you're also from Rhode Island!

[crusader1492]

Yes, I am from Rhode Island. Unfortunately, I will have to breath the same air as "Amerikan Turk"...Perhaps, in the future though (when more turks move to RI and become the majority), I'll be marched out of RI for "my saftey". Those turks are so magnanomous.:rolleyes:

[LENNON]

Armenia Rocks

[TomServo]

you are in danger of being killed
By the assassinater?

[Siggie]

Enough! This is a welcome thread. Say your welcomes and introductions and move on.