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The Struggle in Javakhk

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  • #11
    Re: Clash at Parvana village in Javakhk

    Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
    I agree that this seems a hell of a lot more possible than taking Nakhitchevan the way things are these days. If Geogria is split up again, Russia might seek to give us Javakhk to limit Turkish expansion in the region. However, nothing is certain and we must be prudent to defend our interests without isolating ourselves. I think the best thing we can do now is to raise awareness (among the diaspora especially) about Javakhk and the struggle of the Armenians there.

    I strongly encourage the creation of a thread that is dedicated to explaining the history of Javakhk and keeping track of any political and social developments there. Threads like the one we are posting in now would probably be joined to such a thread.
    I had already suggested such a thread to be created so I went ahead and made one hoping you will be moving the relevant posts there.
    Last edited by Lucin; 08-23-2009, 08:08 AM.

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    • #12
      The Struggle in Javakhk

      This is the guy, Vahagn Chakhalian, accused of 'inciting separatism' in Javakhk and put in prison, now his Armenian lawyer is being prohibited from visiting him by the Georgian authorities...

      » Վրացական իշխանութիւնները ջաւախքահայ քաղաքական ակտիւիստ Վահագն Չախալեանի հայ փաստաբանին թոյլ չեն տւել այցելել իր պաշտպանեալին


      «Համահայկական» լրատու ցանց - Ս. թ. օգոստոսի 17-ին ջաւախքահայ քաղաքական ակտիւիստ Վահագն Չախալեանի հայ փաստաբան Ստեփան Ոսկանեանը փորձեց այցելել իր պաշտպանեալին, որը պահւում է Վրաստանի Ռուսթաւիի քաղաքի համար 2 գաղութում (բանտում): Սակայն, գաղութի ղեկավարութիւնը հրաժարւեց թոյլ տալ տեսակցութիւնը՝ պատճառաբանելով, որ այն փաստաթղթերը, որով հայ փաստաբանը նախկինում իրաւունք ունէր հանդիպել Վահագն Չախալեանի հետ, այլեւս անվաւեր են:
      Ինչպէս «Համահայկական» լրատու ցանցին հաղորդեցին «Երկիր» միութիւնից, նոյն օրը Ստեփան Ոսկանեանը դիմել է Վրաստանի հանրային պաշտպանի գրասենեակ, որի աշխատակիցները, ուսումնասիրելով փաստաբանի փաստաթղթերը, գաղութի ղեկավարութեան որոշումը գնահատել է որպէս ամբողջովին անհիմն:
      Իր պաշտպանեալի հետ տեսակցութիւնը թոյլ չտալու փաստի առնչութեամբ Ստեփան Ոսկանեանը նաեւ ներկայացրել է գրաւոր բողոք՝ ուղղւած Վրաստանի հանրային պաշտպանին եւ Ռուսթաւիի գաղութի ղեկավարութեանը:
      «Երկիր» միութիւնը գնահատում է Վահագն Չախալեանի հետ փաստաբանի տեսակցութիւնն արգելելու որոշումը՝ որպէս վրացական իշխանութիւնների կողմից ջաւախքահայ քաղաքական ակտիւիստի տարրական իրաւունքների հերթական խայտառակ խախտում, որի նպատակն է խոչընդոտել Չախալեանի գործով ս.թ. սեպտեմբերի 18-ին կայանալիք դատալսմանը լիարժէք նախապատրաստւելը: Վրացական իշխանութիւնները նշւած քայլով նաեւ նպատակ են հետապնդում էապէս դժւարացնել Վահագն Չախալեանի հայկական լրատւամիջոցներից տեղեկատւութիւն ստանալու հնարաւորութիւնը, որը ապահովում էր հայ փաստաբանը:
      Հաշւի առնելով վերոնշեալը՝ «Երկիր» միութիւնը Վրաստանի հանրային պաշտպան Սոզար Սուբարիին, միջազգային իրաւապաշտպան կազմակերպութիւններին, Վրաստանում հաւատարմագրւած միջազգային կառոյցներին եւ դիւանագիտական ներկայացչութիւններին կոչ է անում համապատասխան գնահատական տալ վրացական իշխանութիւնների հերթական խայտառակ խախտմանը, ինչպէս նաեւ վերացնել դրա հետեւանքները՝ ապահովելով հետագայում փաստաբանի անարգել մուտքը՝ իր պաշտպանեալի մօտ:

      Source: http://www.alikonline.com/newsviewpage.aspx?idl=14840
      Last edited by Lucin; 08-23-2009, 08:06 AM.

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      • #13
        Re: The Struggle in Javakhk

        Lucin jan, menk Javakhkoum bedk e mer hoghere keraveyink yerp Russe mech medav Verasdan yev Ossatian ou Abkhazian ir hogheroun miatsouts. Menk al nouyne bedk e enenk ays Vratsineroun hed. Mer Akhalkalake yev Akhaltsekhan bedk e keravenk ou Hayasdani getsenk.
        Հա'յ ժողովուրդ, քո միա'կ բրկութիւնը քո հաւաքական ուժի մէջ է:

        Comment


        • #14
          Re: Clash at Parvana village in Javakhk

          Originally posted by D3ADSY View Post
          Surely you don't mean by military force?
          I fit's needed but the people living there must be the one too rise up and fight. RA is not in position to do anything, but the diaspora and the people there can do a lot and it's up too them.
          You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience!!!!!!!

          "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire

          Comment


          • #15
            Re: Clash at Parvana village in Javakhk

            Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post
            I fit's needed but the people living there must be the one too rise up and fight. RA is not in position to do anything, but the diaspora and the people there can do a lot and it's up too them.
            How many new Monte's can be arison within the Diasporan Armenians and also in Akhaltskha/Akhalkalak to do something about it?
            Հա'յ ժողովուրդ, քո միա'կ բրկութիւնը քո հաւաքական ուժի մէջ է:

            Comment


            • #16
              Re: The Struggle in Javakhk

              This news from Javakhk might be a watershed moment in the region's history. If the Armenians had allowed these brutes to take their land, it might have accelerated the rate at which events like this occur. But the fact that they fought and asserted control over their land means that Armenians in Javakhk are ready to fight against Georgian chauvanism and aggression, and now Tbilisi is aware of it. We must wait and see what they try next, but Armenians of Javakhk must be prepared for the worst, as they are the first line of defense on this front. There are many factors and variables that can turn this situation against us, or that can turn this situation into a blessing for us... that is, if we retake Javakhk while creating a secure corridor to the Black Sea... but this is dependent on what Russia aims to achieve in the region. It is also dependent on the balance of power between Russia and the other regional and international powers (namely the US and Turkey), and how Russia chooses to balance its own interests alongside the interests of its competitors. Sadly, we Armenians are simply pawns in the greater power struggles of the Caucasus. But, if we have our backs against the wall, we must (and can) stand up for our own national interests.


              Եվ ինչպես իրենք են ասում, անհրաժեշտության դեպքում պատրաստ են նույնիսկ զենքի դիմել, բայց ոչ մի թիզ հող չեն տա վրացիներին:
              Շատ լաւ լուր է, յուսամ որ ամէն Հայերը պատրաստ ըլլան այդ պարաքային, ոչ թէ միայն Ջավախքցիները:
              Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

              Ten soldiers wisely led, will beat a hundred without a head.

              Comment


              • #17
                Re: Clash at Parvana village in Javakhk

                Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post
                I fit's needed but the people living there must be the one too rise up and fight. RA is not in position to do anything, but the diaspora and the people there can do a lot and it's up too them.
                Can they succeed without Armenia though? And if Armenia does anything, there is a risk of the Azeris making a move too. A two front war is the last thing we need.
                “There are truths on this side of the Pyrenees, which are falsehoods on the other.”
                Blaise Pascal

                Comment


                • #18
                  Re: Clash at Parvana village in Javakhk

                  Originally posted by D3ADSY View Post
                  Can they succeed without Armenia though? And if Armenia does anything, there is a risk of the Azeris making a move too. A two front war is the last thing we need.
                  Let's hope it we will succeed, because we can't afford any thing else.

                  How many new Monte's can be arison within the Diasporan Armenians and also in Akhaltskha/Akhalkalak to do something about it?
                  I think there are a lot who would be ready to go and fight for the Armenian cause. And there are even more living in Armenia who will take up arms and help their brothers that live on the other side of the border.
                  You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience!!!!!!!

                  "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Re: Clash at Parvana village in Javakhk

                    Originally posted by D3ADSY View Post
                    Can they succeed without Armenia though? And if Armenia does anything, there is a risk of the Azeris making a move too. A two front war is the last thing we need.
                    Originally posted by D3ADSY View Post
                    Can they succeed without Armenia though? And if Armenia does anything, there is a risk of the Azeris making a move too. A two front war is the last thing we need.
                    To answer this question one need consider the magnitude of the problem. Before 2005-6 the main opponent of Armenians of Javakhk were some of the Georgian nationalists in Tbilisi. The Georgian state, however, respected the de facto autonomy that Javakhk has sine Soviet times (fully Armenian schools, Armenians in administration, Armenian language allowed for local administrative purposes, etc.). So Javakhk did not need much help from RA and from Diaspora either. Probably, this is one reason why there is so little information distributed about Javakhk before the years stated above.

                    But later the situation changed. Two main factors of that are:
                    - Turkey stated to “enter” Caucasus via its giant economical projects (Baku-Ceihan, Baku-Erzrum, Kars-Akhalkalak-Tbilisi, etc.);
                    - After Roses revolution the value of Georgia, backed by the US and the West, and of president Saakashvili grew dramatically.

                    Turkey wants to build a “corridor” via Javakhk+Borchali to Azerbaijan. Borchali is the South-Eastern part of modern Georgia. Javakhk and Borchali together form an only 160km long “corridor” from Turkey to Azerbaijan (from Istanbul to Baku). Georgia, on the other hand, wants to use support of Turkey in its confrontation with Russia.

                    So these days the much more powerful Georgia (more powerful than what it was in 2001) with Turkish support has much more freedom to do things in Javakhk.

                    This answers your question. Because, even if each Armenian in Javakhk wee a Rembo/Terminator, they cannot stand against Turkey and Georgia without help of other Armenians.

                    But the good news is that the situation is not lost. There are many measures we can take. Also, solution of the problem of Javakhk may or may not always mean annexion of the territory from Georgia. If Georgia allows us to have the same autonomy that we had before, then it can be a good solution because:
                    - it allows Javakhk to stay an Armenian region without assimilation or de-armenization;
                    - it allows Armenia to have an Armenian-populated region that brakes the Turkish plan to join to Azerbaijan via the “corridor” Javakhk+Borchali;
                    - it allows Georgia to avoid all dangers of potential confrontation with Armenians (including RA and Diaspora);
                    - it allows Georgia to have Javakhk for the case if the Turkish influence in Georgia gets too much.
                    Javakhk

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Re: Clash at Parvana village in Javakhk

                      Originally posted by Javakhk View Post
                      To answer this question one need consider the magnitude of the problem. Before 2005-6 the main opponent of Armenians of Javakhk were some of the Georgian nationalists in Tbilisi. The Georgian state, however, respected the de facto autonomy that Javakhk has sine Soviet times (fully Armenian schools, Armenians in administration, Armenian language allowed for local administrative purposes, etc.). So Javakhk did not need much help from RA and from Diaspora either. Probably, this is one reason why there is so little information distributed about Javakhk before the years stated above.

                      But later the situation changed. Two main factors of that are:
                      - Turkey stated to “enter” Caucasus via its giant economical projects (Baku-Ceihan, Baku-Erzrum, Kars-Akhalkalak-Tbilisi, etc.);
                      - After Roses revolution the value of Georgia, backed by the US and the West, and of president Saakashvili grew dramatically.

                      Turkey wants to build a “corridor” via Javakhk+Borchali to Azerbaijan. Borchali is the South-Eastern part of modern Georgia. Javakhk and Borchali together form an only 160km long “corridor” from Turkey to Azerbaijan (from Istanbul to Baku). Georgia, on the other hand, wants to use support of Turkey in its confrontation with Russia.

                      So these days the much more powerful Georgia (more powerful than what it was in 2001) with Turkish support has much more freedom to do things in Javakhk.

                      This answers your question. Because, even if each Armenian in Javakhk wee a Rembo/Terminator, they cannot stand against Turkey and Georgia without help of other Armenians.

                      But the good news is that the situation is not lost. There are many measures we can take. Also, solution of the problem of Javakhk may or may not always mean annexion of the territory from Georgia. If Georgia allows us to have the same autonomy that we had before, then it can be a good solution because:
                      - it allows Javakhk to stay an Armenian region without assimilation or de-armenization;
                      - it allows Armenia to have an Armenian-populated region that brakes the Turkish plan to join to Azerbaijan via the “corridor” Javakhk+Borchali;
                      - it allows Georgia to avoid all dangers of potential confrontation with Armenians (including RA and Diaspora);
                      - it allows Georgia to have Javakhk for the case if the Turkish influence in Georgia gets too much.
                      I don't think the Georgian government is that smart and they'll never do the things you are telling. Look at their president he ate his tie on tv, so you can expect everything from that guy. And I think things will not get better but things will get worse.

                      And Turkey will never dare to do a thing when Javakh decides to rise against Tiblisi. If they do Armenia will act and with Armenia Russia. Turkey will do nothing except give logistic support to the Georgians.
                      You should never argue with idiots because they will just drag you down to their level....then beat you with experience!!!!!!!

                      "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire

                      Comment

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