The Jewish/Zionist role within the Armenian Genocide

[Armenian]

I far as I am concerned, Jews, as a nation, are just as vile as Turks. The only difference between Jews and Turks - the Jews only do things behind your back. Also, Jews, when possible, like to have others do their dirty work.

Some Armenian bring up individual Jews such as Henry Morganthau as a Jew who helped Armenians. As far as Morganthau is concerned, he was an American ambassador within Turkey. Thus, he represented America at a time when America was, more or less, at war with Turkey. The Jew factor does not play into this.

What most Armenians within the Armenian community fail to mention, however, is that the very founding fathers of Israel - Hertzel and Jabotinsky - openly and directly encouraged the Turkish authorities to carry out their plans against the Armenians. They did so to win land favors within Ottoman administerd Palestine. This is all very well documented.

Even today, our biggest obstacle within the world is not Turkey, its not the US State Department - its the Jewish lobby in Washington, the lobby that which represents ALL MAJOR JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD. However, there is the occasional individual Jew that gives us *lip* service.

Historically, Armenians have been loved and respected within all nations they have lived in - except Turkey. Historically, Jews have been hated within all nations they have lived - in except Turkey. This curious yet obvious *formula* should reveal a lot to us Armenians.

Simply put, Jews, not the individual Jew, but the Jew as a nation and as a culture - are vile and dangerous. Traditional Jews are perhaps more racist than the typical Nazi. Traditional Jews have been and are the most anti-Christian entity within the world. There will be no peace in the Middle East as long as these two abominations - Turkey and Israel - exist in any form.

When the Armenians escaping the Turkish genocide settled in Palestine they were welcomed (by the Arabs). The genocide was ominously defended by Vladimir Jabotinsky and other Zionists in their attempts to obtain Turkish support.

The quote is from a book writen by a secular Jew (considered to be a traitor and self-hating by most Jews) that all Armenians need to read: http://www.marxists.de/middleast/schoenman/ch02.htm

[Otto]

is it true that American Treasury mostly owned by Jewish owned banks? just heard something like that?

[Armenian]

is it true that American Treasury mostly owned by Jewish owned banks? just heard something like that?

Although it is pointless to discuss this here, it is very true.

[Martin]

Historically, Armenians have been loved and respected within all nations they have lived in - except Turkey. Historically, Jews have been hated within all nations they have lived - in except Turkey.

Oh, yes thats true....
Everybody says that Jews and Armenians are the smartest nations in the world. But difference between Jews and Armenians is that Jews always utilize their knowledge(slyness).

[Anonymouse]

In fact, most of the Young Turks were secret Jews, referred to as Doenmeh. Ataturk himself was of Jewish extraction. If you guys are interested, there is a book written by Joachim Prinz, called The Secret Jews which talks about this.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0394472047/qid=1079863484/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-1679339-8721468?v=glance&s=books

[bezjian]

So certain Jews were key players in the CUP (and there are more then you named and some behind the scenes who played some interesting dual roles with CUP and Russian revolutions) - but I say so what?

are you joking? that's like saying, "so there were turks involved in the cup, so what?". can you imagine how much they would screw us if it was suddenly discovered that there were a few armenians in the nazi party? give me a break winoman.

i'm not saying turks and jews were equally responsible for the genocide. you are going to point out that abdul hamit was a butcher of armenians and was also disliked by jews. but abdul hamit's aim was never to exterminate and wipe out armenians, because his goal was to preserve the caliphate and integrity of the ottoman empire. armenians, due to their importance to the ottoman tax base, were essential members of the ottoman citizenry (the "armenian bankers of galata" feature prominently in the literature). they also played an important role in the modernization of the empire. throughout their history the ottomans used threats of murder and violence to extract as much tax from armenians as they wanted or needed. jews were accepted into the ottoman empire following their expulsion from spain not because the sultan was especially compassionate but because of the potential financial benefits of having an economically successful race of people in the empire. the idea to exterminate the armenians came from the young turks after the caliphate had ended. armenian makes a good point, zionists had great incentive to remove abdul hamit since he had refused the idea of creating a national home for jews in palestine. the fairest way to describe the young turk movement then was that it represented a convergence of interests, those of the zionists and those of the liberal turkish bourgeoisie. they took advantage of a mass of balkan and caucasian muslims seething with anger at christians who expelled them from their homes in the balkan wars, to carry out the extermination of the armenians. again i would like to draw comparisons between the young turk movement and the neocons of today - one part zionist and one part the native anglo-saxon military-industrial complex and free market/oil industry crowd (witness halliburton charging the pentagon thousands of dollars for toilet seat covers, all those bombs dropped on iraq, etc. have you seen the latest profit margins of the defense contractors? these people are making boat loads off the carnage in iraq). i don't think pan-turkism figures all that prominently in this to be honest, there was a very weak sense of national identity among the muslim subjects of the empire (w/ the exception of the arabs maybe). your identity was first muslim, second turk, kurd, laz, cherkess or whatever. indeed we have seen that it was jews like tekin alp who played the leading role in creating a "turkish" identity, which later spawned the azeri and tatar identities. behind this was probably the creation of national identities in the areas of the turkish and russian empires, since disintegration of the ottoman was seen as the best way to carve out a jewish home in palestine, and tatar nationalism was used against the anti-jew czarist regime.

i think what you need to do winoman is study this israeli-palestinian conflict a bit more closely. go back to the roots of it and learn how it evolved. it's true palestine always had a native jewish population, a small minority until recently. there was a common culture there between jews and arabs (and armenians as well), much the same way there was a common culture in the cities of ottoman turkey between turks, greeks, armenians, jews. there was little friction between arabs and jews in those times, and you will find the same situation in other parts of the arab world, iraq, the maghreb, yemen. the same is true for persia. in the 19th century persecution of jews in europe (pogroms, etc) started to pick up. this happened to jews throughout their history in europe, in many parts (spain, italy, germany, russia, britain, etc.). i'm sure jews suffered discrimination in arab lands as well throughout history, but nothing compared to what they experienced in europe. the european jews, culturally european - they even look european, from all the intermarriage and conversion that took place over the centuries - couldn't imagine picking up and moving into the arab countries or persia. though some of them did, even ottoman turkey was too "oriental" for them (witness the virulent racism, as bad as any white supremacist's, they display towards arabs today. meanwhile they are supposed to be semitic! see here for an example of this). they needed a home all to themselves. they started to immigrate into palestine in the late 19th century. the palestinian arabs accepted these refugees into their lands, as they would later do with the armenians fleeing turkish massacres. it was the typical hospitality common to middle-eastern cultures that allowed jews fleeing persecution to settle on palestinian lands. (contrast this with anglo-saxon attitudes towards immigration and refugees from other countries). the armenians who settled there were appreciative of their hosts. coming from another part of the ottoman empire they probably had more in common culturally with the palestinian arabs than the european jews did. jews though are a different story. immediately they started to act like the place was theirs. the land was theirs to take, whether or not palestinians were living on it or not. no appreciation that a people gave them a second chance on life. the arabs for them were filthy animals, with no history or culture, something to be sh*t on. they never made any effort to coexist with the arabs, they just tried to take as much as they could from them for themselves. did armenians in the countries to which they fled ever turn on and disrespect their hosts? wherever armenians ended up, syria, lebanon, iraq, palestine, cyprus, egypt, ethiopia, south america they were liked and made a good name for themselves (armenians in europe and the u.s. sometimes faced discrimination but this was due to white racism more than anything else). to me this is the difference between armenians and jews. it is the jews' sense of exceptionalism, which comes from the fundamental premise of their religion, which explains their contemptuous attitude towards other people. i mean, what a joke, jews are allowed to take over all of palestine because 2000 years ago there were people called jews who lived there, and some ancient text (written by jews of course) says it is the land of the jews? too bad the native americans don't have such a text. do you know how many wars there would be in the world right now if that was considered a legitimate principle in international affairs?

to conclude i offer you one last tidbit, taken from the blight of asia (about the destruction of smyrna 1922), by george horton, consul and consul-general of the united states in the near east:

As the Armenians had all disappeared from the streets, it was supposed that the men who had escaped had taken refuge in their own quarter, a well-built, Europeanized section of the town, within well-defined limits. Before proceeding to what happened next, it should be explained that the soldiers were helped in picking out Armenians in the streets by native spies, who accompanied them and pointed out victims. I could not recognize the nationality of those foul and slimy reptiles, the spies. I was told by some that they were Jews, but I have no proof to substantiate the statement. Of course many of the informers were Turks, and it is possible that they were all of that race, as they would naturally aid their own troops.

When Armenian hunting became too poor in the streets of Smyrna, their precinct was closed to all except Turks by soldiers stationed at the street entrances, after which the sack and massacre were conducted methodically. I did not myself attempt to enter the Armenian section, but I was repeatedly informed by those with whom I was in contact that ingress was not permitted. Americans who saw into the quarter from their windows, stated that there was not a house that escaped, so far as could be seen. All were broken into, looted, the furniture smashed and thrown into the streets. What happened to the inhabitants can easily be left to the imagination it is easy to form a mental picture of those families, cowering in their homes, with their wives, their daughters and their babes, waiting for the crash of a rifle butt on their doors.

[winoman]

Sorry but I see know zionist influence in regards to the Young Turks whatsoever and this Doehme conspiracy thing is equally fallacious. Some claim that Ataturk was Greek. So what? What is important is what these people did and what we can clearly see were their motivations. There is no hidden Jewish agenda in any of this. Its pure horsexxxx.

[Armenian]

The Young Turks: Who Were They?

[During the last quarter of the 19th century, the Near East Question passed into its critical phase. As a result of the Russo-Turkish war of 1877-78, the Ottoman Empire lost extensive territory mainly in the Balkans where the "autonomous" states of Bulgaria, Bosnia, and Herzegovina passed into the de facto administrative sphere of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Thessaly and the prefecture of Artas were ceded to Greece, and in Asia, Russia annexed the territories of Kars and Ardachan in Turkish Armenia. In Africa, the English claimed Egypt, and the French Tunisia, while the Italians did not bother to conceal their territorial ambitions toward Tripoli. Meanwhile, the dissident movements in Crete, Armenia, and Macedonia were beginning to reach worrisome levels for the Turkish Sultanate.]

...

[One of the first real threats to the Ottoman Throne was a hard-core, conspiratorial group that formed in 1889 among the students of the Military Medical School in Constantinople.]

...

[The conspiratorial leadership, who came to be known as the Young Turks.]

...

Union and Progress

[The Young Turk movement -- after many mishaps and near dissolution -- finally achieved it first goal. In early July of 1908, led by the officer-members of the Committee of Union and Progress (Itihàt vè Terakì), the Turkish troops stationed in Macedonia refused to obey orders coming from Constantinople. The Young Turks then sent a telegraphed ultimatum to the Sultan from Serres on the 21st of July. They demanded the immediate restoration and implementation of the constitution, and threatened him with dethronement should he fail to comply. On the 24th of July, Abdul Hamit announced that the constitution had been restored and was in full force and effect.]

...

[The subsequent mid-20th century overthrow of King Farouk in Egypt by the Nasserite revolutionaries bears some striking similarities to the Young Turk movement. There are, however, some very striking differences as well. Some of these are: 1) the diverse ethnic background of the conspirators; 2) the significant and crucial role played by the allied movement of fellow-conspirators known as the Donmè (Jews who had converted [?] to Islam); and, 3) the enthusiastic way in which the conspiracy was embraced by Masonic elements.]

...

[As far as the multiethnic composition of the conspirators is concerned, one need only read their names to verify their diverse background: Tserkès (Circassion ), Mehmet Ali, Xersekli (Herzogovinians), Ali Roushdi, Kosovali (Kosovars) and others. In many cases, the ethnic origin of the conspirator was not evident from the name: Ibrahim Temo was an Albanian, as was Ismail Kemal. Murat Bey Dagestanos and Achmet Riza had an Arkhazian father and an Austrian mother. One of the theoreticians of the movement was Ziyia Ngiokali, a Kurd, while one of the major planners of tactics and theory was a Jew from Serres who went by the name of Tekìn Alì (real name, Moshe Cohen).]

...

The telegraph-office clerk who became one of the ruling troika of post-revolutionary Turkey, Talaàt Pasha, was Bosnian, Pomack, or Gypsy; the point being that he was not a Turk. We should also make note of the fact that the Committee of Union and Progress admitted many members from areas outside of the Ottoman Empire, and that some of these even served on its Central Committee.

NOTE: Raphael De Nogales, in his book "Four Years Under the Crescent", refferers to Talaat as "The renegade jew from Salonika".

Masonic elements

[The strong connection between the Itihàts (conspirators) and Masonry is a well-documented fact. The leftist Turkish writer, Kamouran Mberik Xartboutlou, in his book, The Turkish Impasse ( from the Greek translation of the French publication of 1974. p.24), wrote: "Those who desired entry into the inner circle of that secret organization [the Itihàt], had to be a Mason, and had to have the backing of a large segment of the commercial class." The true nature of the relationship between the Young Turks and the Masonic lodges of Thessaloniki has been commented upon by many researchers and writers. In her well-known and extensively documented book, Secret Societies and Subversive Movements (London. 1928, p. 284), author and historian Nesta Webster writes that "The Young Turk movement began in the Masonic lodges of Thessaloniki under the direct supervision of the Grand Orient Lodge of Italy, which later shared in the success of Mustapha Kemal."]

[Of course, the precise nature of this relationship is clouded in mystery, but enough facts exist allowing for more than just informed conjecture based on circumstantial evidence. An example of the Itihàt-Masonic connection is the interview that Young Turk, Refik Bey, gave to the Paris newspaper Le Temps, on the 20th of August 1908: "It's true that we receive support from Freemasonry and especially from Italian Masonry. The two Italian lodges [of Thessaloniki] -- Macedonia Risorta and Labor et Lux -- have provided invaluable services and have been a refuge for us. We meet there as fellow Masons, because it is a fact that many of us are Masons, but more importantly we meet so that we can better organize ourselves."]

The Jewish Component

[The Donmè ("convert" in Turkish), was a Hebrew heresy whose followers converted [?] to Islam in the 18th century. They were most heavily concentrated in Thessaloniki. According to the Great Hellenic Encyclopedia [Megali Elliniki Enkiklopethia]: "It is generally accepted that the Donmè secretly continue to adhere to the Hebrew religion and don't allow their kind to intermarry with the Muslims."]

...

[The disproportionate power and influence (in light of their number) that the Donmè had on both the Ottoman Empire and on the Young Turk movement has been the subject of a great deal of commentary by many observers and researchers. The eminent British historian, R. Seton Watson, in his book, The Rise of Nationality in the Balkans. London, 1917 (H Gennisi tou Ethnikismou sta Valkania), wrote the following: "The real brains behind the [Itihàt] movement were Jews or Islamic-Jews. The wealthy Donmè and Jews of Thessaloniki supported [the Young Turks] economically, and their fellow Jewish capitalists in Vienna and Berlin -- as well as in Budapest and possibly Paris and London -- supported them financially as well.]

...

[In the January 23rd, 1914, issue of the Czarist Police [Okrana] Ledger (Number 16609), directed to the Ministry of the Exterior in Saint Petersburg, we read: "A pan-Islamic convention of Itihàts and Jews was held in the Nouri Osman lodge in Constantinople. It was attended by approximately 700 promi-nent Itihàts and Jews, including "Minister" Talaàt Bey, Bentri Bey, Mbekri Bey, and (Donmè) Javit Bey. Among the many Jews in attendance, two of the most prominent were the Head of the Security Service, Samouel Effendi, and the Vice-Administrator of the Police, Abraham Bey."]

Donmè and Constantine

[The numerous Donmè in positions of authority within the machinery of the Itihàt government, as well as on the powerful Central Committee, strengthens the conviction that their influence was widespread and vital to the cause. Ignoring the names mentioned in the Czarist Police Ledger, and even ignoring such Jews as the fanatical Pan-Turkic [Marxist revolutionary and poet, Hikmet] Nazim, or even the many casual allusions [as if it were common knowledge at the time] to the Jewish descent of that most dedicated believer in the Young Turk movement, Mustapha Kemal "Atatürk," one still finds oneself wondering by what authority and under whose auspices was such an obscure Jewish Donmè from Thessaloniki, by the name of Emmanouel Karasso, able to become a member of the three-man committee that announced his dethronement to Sultan Abdul Hamit after the counter-coup of April 1909?]

...

[Compelling, too, is the widely-referenced document which states that Constantine, the King of Greece at the time, characterized the entire Young Turk movement as composed of "Israelites." According to the facts presented in her book, Glory and Partisanship, the Greek professor of the University of Vienna, Polychroni Enepekithi, contends that Constantine made that characterization while complaining to the German Ambassador in Athens about the outrages committed by Young Turks against Hellenes living in the Ottoman Empire.]

...

[These references to the relationship between the Donmè, the Masons, and the Young Turks has not been prompted by anti-Semitism [sic] or Masonophobia. Rather, we are attempting to shed some light on what to us seems like a puzzling paradox in this revolutionary movement, which is: Why it is that this non-Turkish leadership struggled so hard under the banner of justice for the Turkish people? Also, why is it that others, having nothing to do with Sunnite Islam [the form of Islam practiced in Turkey] struggled equally hard under the banner of justice for Islam? The only answer to this paradox demands that we consider that there may have been another reason behind their fervid struggle, and that this un-stated cause is what bound these "ideologues" together.]

Source Nemesis. by Ioasif Kassesian. September 2001. pp. 64-66.
Translated by staff. Emphasis added.
Translation © by TGR.

Source: http://www.grecoreport.com

[Armenian]

The founders of pan-Turkism.

In the book:
Pan-Turkism
From Irredentism to Cooperation
by JACOB M. LANDAU

Link: http://www.hurstpub.co.uk/1998/greece/pant.htm

The three founders of the pan-Turkism are:

1. Pan-Turkism was first called for in the 1860s by a Hungarian Zionist named Arminius Vambery, who had become an adviser to the sultan, but who secretly worked for Lord Palmerston and the British Foreign Office. Vambery later tried to broker a deal between the Zionist leader Theodor Herzl and the sultan, over the creation of Israel.

2. The Jewish French writer, Leon Cahun who formed and propagated pan-Turkism in his book:
Introduction al'Histoire de l'Asie, Turcs, et Mongols, des ...

3. Arthur L. David, a British Jew who in his book tried to give the Turks a superiority myth.

Young Turks:
In October 1843, twelve German-Jewish immigrants met on New York’s Lower East Side to help others like themselves. Pooling their ideas and their funds, they founded what would become the most enduring service organization for the Zionist identity in the United States. Its name—B’nai B’rith, "Children of the Covenant".

The founder of the Young Turks was a Jewish Italian B'nai B'rith official named Emmanuel Carasso. Carasso set up the Young Turk secret society in the 1890s in Salonika, then part of Turkey, and now part of Greece. Carasso was also the grand master of an Italian masonic lodge there, called "Macedonia Resurrected." The lodge was the headquarters of the Young Turks, and all the top Young Turk leadership were members.

Press

Another important area was the press. While in power, the Young Turks ran several newspapers, including The Young Turk, whose editor was none other than the Russian Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky. Jabotinsky had been educated as a young man in Italy. He later described Mazzini's ideas as the basis for the Zionist movement.

Jabotinsky arrived in Turkey shortly after the Young Turks seized power, to take over the paper. The paper was owned by a member of the Turkish cabinet, but it was funded by the Russian Zionist federation, and managed by B'nai B'rith. The editorial policy of the paper was overseen by a Dutch Zionist named Jacob Kann, who was the personal banker of the king and queen of the Netherlands.

Jabotinsky later created the most anti-Arab of all the Zionist organizations, the Irgun. His followers in Israel today are the ones most violently opposed to the Peres-Arafat peace accords.

Source: http://www.schillerinstitute.org

[Armenian]

glad to see we agree on something. this is a completely buried topic that needs to be majorly researched. we need a thorough accounting of the financial assets of armenians in the ottoman empire and should demand compensation from everyone responsible.

Well, my agreement with you was nothing personal, per say. You simply made a great commentary and I just wanted to show you my appreciation. Nonetheless, I never had a problem with you to begin with. I merely said some or your reasoning - regarding what it means to be an Armenian - was a bit off. Then again, its only my opinion. This text of your, however, really impressed me.

I am glad that this topic has been brought up. No one can discuss this issue within the general public and/or within the media. The reasons are quite obvious. However, the major Jewish factor within the Armenian Genocide has been covered up for too damn long. As self respecting Armenians, we need to address this issue. What's blood curddling is the fact that the very same poeple who undermine our political and national ambitions - at every turn - are the very same ones that Armenians love to bend over for.

are you (winoman) joking?

Yes its a joke, don't you already know that heshe is a clown???

that's like saying, "so there were turks involved in the cup, so what?". can you imagine how much they would screw us if it was suddenly discovered that there were a few armenians in the nazi party? give me a break winoman.

This is where you are wrong Bezjian, you are assuming that your opposition is using common sense or logic. Realize who you are conversing with. Just the simple fact that we Armenians had some very courageous heroes fighting within the Wehrmacht during the Second World War, that disgusting Jewish f***** who chairs the Armenian studies within Harvard tries to rub Armenians noses into kaka every chance he gets. And self-hating Armenian f*****s such as the one that trolls around this discussion board go along with their vile theatrics. The self-hate and absurdity of certain Armenians is breath taking.

you are going to point out that abdul hamit was a butcher of armenians and was also disliked by jews. but abdul hamit's aim was never to exterminate and wipe out armenians, because his goal was to preserve the caliphate and integrity of the ottoman empire. armenians, due to their importance to the ottoman tax base, were essential members of the ottoman citizenry (the "armenian bankers of galata" feature prominently in the literature). they also played an important role in the modernization of the empire. throughout their history the ottomans used threats of murder and violence to extract as much tax from armenians as they wanted or needed. jews were accepted into the ottoman empire following their expulsion from spain not because the sultan was especially compassionate but because of the potential financial benefits of having an economically successful race of people in the empire. the idea to exterminate the armenians came from the young turks after the caliphate had ended. armenian makes a good point, zionists had great incentive to remove abdul hamit since he had refused the idea of creating a national home for jews in palestine. the fairest way to describe the young turk movement then was that it represented a convergence of interests, those of the zionists and those of the liberal turkish bourgeoisie. they took advantage of a mass of balkan and caucasian muslims seething with anger at christians who expelled them from their homes in the balkan wars, to carry out the extermination of the armenians.

Very impressive analysis. You are correct, Sultan Hamid was a simple barbarian, the Young Turks were pure evil. Sultan Hamid wanted control of his empire, the Young Turks had grandiose agendas. Moreover, your analogy with current events was very accurate. And the funny part is, the people who more-or-less masterminded the Armenian Genocide are the very same ones today who are targeting the Arab Muslim world.

it was the typical hospitality common to middle-eastern cultures that allowed jews fleeing persecution to settle on palestinian lands. (contrast this with anglo-saxon attitudes towards immigration and refugees from other countries). the armenians who settled there were appreciative of their hosts. coming from another part of the ottoman empire they probably had more in common culturally with the palestinian arabs than the european jews did. jews though are a different story. immediately they started to act like the place was theirs. the land was theirs to take, whether or not palestinians were living on it or not. no appreciation that a people gave them a second chance on life. the arabs for them were filthy animals, with no history or culture, something to be sh*t on. they never made any effort to coexist with the arabs, they just tried to take as much as they could from them for themselves. did armenians in the countries to which they fled ever turn on and disrespect their hosts? wherever armenians ended up, syria, lebanon, iraq, palestine, cyprus, egypt, ethiopia, south america they were liked and made a good name for themselves (armenians in europe and the u.s. sometimes faced discrimination but this was due to white racism more than anything else). to me this is the difference between armenians and jews.

Again, Jews have been hated within every single nation they have dwelled in - except Turkey. Armenians have been well respected within every single nation they have dwelled in - except Turkey. This is enough to tell you all a whole lot about the two peoples in question. If you have not read "The Hidden History of Zionism," I highly reccomend you do it.

it is the jews' sense of exceptionalism, which comes from the fundamental premise of their religion, which explains their contemptuous attitude towards other people. i mean, what a joke, jews are allowed to take over all of palestine because 2000 years ago there were people called jews who lived there, and some ancient text (written by jews of course) says it is the land of the jews? too bad the native americans don't have such a text. do you know how many wars there would be in the world right now if that was considered a legitimate principle in international affairs?

As I said before, this portion of your text is excellent, for it essentially explains where the fundamental problems within the Middle East lie.

I am a Christian. As a Christian, I believe that all followers of Christ are essentially God's chosen. Theologically, Jews had stopped being the "chosen" even long befor they crucified God. Besides which, the Jews of today have nothing in common with the Hebrews of the ancient world - they are two very different people - ethnically and spiritually.

Simply put, Jews as a nation, not the individual Jew, are vile and dangerous. Traditional Jews are perhaps more racist than the typical Nazi. Traditional Jews have been and are the most anti-Christian entity within the world.

Our biggest obstacle within the world today is not Turkey, its not the US State Department - its the Jewish lobby in Washington, the lobby that which represents ALL MAJOR JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD. However, there is the occasional individual Jew that gives us *lip* service.

Final analysis: There will be no peace in the Middle East as long as these two abominations - Turkey and Israel - exist in any form.