Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

[Digger]

Click below to read article.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

[Merv]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

What I am interested in is whether this is more of a political issue for Israel or an issue for the "uniqueness" of the Holocaust, something that is enforced upon us like mantra.

It's also interesting that Babacan states that this will harm Turkish-Israeli ties. Why should it? It is the US that is doing the resolution? Or is it a sort of veiled threat so that Israeli/xxxish lobbies will build up the pressure against the resolution on Capitol Hill?

[Digger]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

It's also interesting that Babacan states that this will harm Turkish-Israeli ties. Why should it? It is the US that is doing the resolution?

Because the Turks are seeing the j*ws and j*wish lobbies as not doing enough to stop it. The US j*wish lobbies and j*wish organizations are Turkey's pitbull in the US. If this resolution passes, it's the j*ws fault. At least that's who Turkey will blame for not doing enough to stop it. After all, Turkey and Israel have a "you wash my hand and I'll wash yours" kind of a deal going on.

Or is it a sort of veiled threat so that Israeli/xxxish lobbies will build up the pressure against the resolution on Capitol Hill?

Yes.

P.S. I don't know if you noticed yet or if you are aware of it, but whenever you type the word j*w, it comes up as xxx. Moderators, can you please get rid of this already? Please? I feel like I'm writing a naughty word whenever I use that word.

[Merv]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

Because the Turks are seeing the j*ws and j*wish lobbies as not doing enough to stop it. The US j*wish lobbies and j*wish organizations are Turkey's pitbull in the US. If this resolution passes, it's the j*ws fault. At least that's who Turkey will blame for not doing enough to stop it. After all, Turkey and Israel have a "you wash my hand and I'll wash yours" kind of a deal going on.



Yes.

P.S. I don't know if you noticed yet or if you are aware of it, but whenever you type the word j*w, it comes up as xxx. Moderators, can you please get rid of this already? Please? I feel like I'm writing a naughty word whenever I use that word.

Really? I had always thought the xxxish lobby was more interested in maintaining the Holocaust "uniqueness" thing (which is VERY important for the continued abuse of Palestinians, btw) by denying the Armenian genocide - because xxxish actors far outside of Capitol Hill seem to be dismissive of it.

If, as you say, the xxxish lobby is an established advocate of Turkish interests in all causes, then it sounds like it is a more political thing.

The most sickening thing about this is how the xxxish lobby is casting this resolution as "bad for America" because of the disastrous Iraq war that their neocons largely engineered (why don't they say the same about the Holocaust being "bad for Germany" or "bad for Iran"?), when in fact their only interest is Turkish reaction to Israel.

[Digger]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

Really? I had always thought the xxxish lobby was more interested in maintaining the Holocaust "uniqueness" thing (which is VERY important for the continued abuse of Palestinians, btw) by denying the Armenian genocide - because xxxish actors far outside of Capitol Hill seem to be dismissive of it.

That too. I've heard this argument used as well for why j*ws and Israel are stopping the Armenian Genocide from being recognized. In fact, I heard it from a j*w politician himself. He said that if the Armenian Genocide is recognized, that would minimize the holocaust. J*ws want the spotlight on the holocaust so, as you said, they can use it as an excuse to do whatever they want, for example, the oppression, murder and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. They don't want other genocides competing for the spotlight.

But it can be for both reasons, and I believe it is for both reasons, which is what I just described above as well as a favor to their criminal partners, the Turks. Both j*ws and Turks are criminals as far as I'm concerned.

[Grandchild]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

Wow, just wow.

[Merv]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

That too. I've heard this argument used as well for why j*ws and Israel are stopping the Armenian Genocide from being recognized. In fact, I heard it from a j*w politician himself. He said that if the Armenian Genocide is recognized, that would minimize the holocaust. J*ws want the spotlight on the holocaust so, as you said, they can use it as an excuse to do whatever they want, for example, the oppression, murder and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. They don't want other genocides competing for the spotlight.

But it can be for both reasons, and I believe it is for both reasons, which is what I just described above as well as a favor to their criminal partners, the Turks. Both j*ws and Turks are criminals as far as I'm concerned.

That's going a bit far. I admire the xxxs for their overall role in history and their importance in my religion (Christianity, Jesus being a xxx), but I do think they are a bit overly self-interested and don't quite empathize with others. Perhaps its the history of persecution or the choseness aspect, but I do think it's underhanded of them to mass produce movies, books, plays, memorials, and museums of their national tragedy and then actively lobby that other tragedies be ignored or denied. Perhaps any ethnic group in their position would have the same stance, but I feel it is a bit unprincipled.

[Digger]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

That's going a bit far. I admire the xxxs for their overall role in history and their importance in my religion (Christianity, Jesus being a xxx), but I do think they are a bit overly self-interested and don't quite empathize with others. Perhaps its the history of persecution or the choseness aspect, but I do think it's underhanded of them to mass produce movies, books, plays, memorials, and museums of their national tragedy and then actively lobby that other tragedies be ignored or denied. Perhaps any ethnic group in their position would have the same stance, but I feel it is a bit unprincipled.

What is unprincipled? That the j*wish lobby isn't involved in denying the Armenian Genocide? You can't really be that naive. The j*ws have been openly fighting the recognition of the Armenian Genocide for years.

If you admire the j*ws so much, why don't you ask them why their lobbies are fighting tooth and nail to make sure the US doesn't recognize the Armenian Genocide.

You know what gets me more than anything? When Armenian groups are pressuring j*wish groups to recognize the Armenian Genocide, these j*wish groups are saying that this issue doesn't involve j*ws, this issue is strictly between Turks and Armenians. WHAAAAAAAATTTTT??? Are these people serious when they say something like this? If this issue doesn't involve j*ws, then why are j*wish groups lobbying the government on Turkey's behalf to prevent the US from recognizing the Armenian Genocide? As long as j*wish groups are involved in lobbying against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, they are involved. They involved themselves and will continue being involved until they stop. If you admire j*ws so much, can you please ask them why they keep lobbying on Turkey's behalf against the Armenian Genocide?

[Merv]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

What is unprincipled? That the j*wish lobby isn't involved in denying the Armenian Genocide? You can't really be that naive. The j*ws have been openly fighting the recognition of the Armenian Genocide for years.

If you admire the j*ws so much, why don't you ask them why their lobbies are fighting tooth and nail to make sure the US doesn't recognize the Armenian Genocide.

You know what gets me more than anything? When Armenian groups are pressuring j*wish groups to recognize the Armenian Genocide, these j*wish groups are saying that this issue doesn't involve j*ws, this issue is strictly between Turks and Armenians. WHAAAAAAAATTTTT??? Are these people serious when they say something like this? If this issue doesn't involve j*ws, then why are j*wish groups lobbying the government on Turkey's behalf to prevent the US from recognizing the Armenian Genocide? As long as j*wish groups are involved in lobbying against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, they are involved. They involved themselves and will continue being involved until they stop. If you admire j*ws so much, can you please ask them why they keep lobbying on Turkey's behalf against the Armenian Genocide?

I thought you saying that "xxxs and Turks are criminals" was going too far. I agree with the above that you are saying. It isn't the first time that xxxish groups and individuals do everything in their power to deny the suffering and tragedy of others. They are NOT happy when Gypsies are mentioned as victims of genocide. They are NOT happy when Slavs are mentioned as dying in the millions in Nazi camps (mostly Poles and Russians), or that far more Slavs were killed in WWII than xxxs (25 million Russians and Ukrainians, 3 million Catholic Poles, 1 million Serbs, etc.). They are not happy when the Croatian WWII genocide of Serbs is mentioned. They are OK with maybe Rwanda or Cambodia or something that is completely outside of their sphere of interest and that will likely not hurt them in any way, but even in the case of Rwanda (a real genocide) they will still deny that in substance it is genocide just like the Holocaust. They will call it ethnic cleansing instead or "ethnic conflict." In short, a lot of these people feel that they are a superior people to others, that the goyim are a subhuman race that cannot be genocided.

I know that in the case of Yugoslavic, people like Elie Wiesel were cavorting with fascist oriented @ssholes like Croat Franjo Tudjman ("Thank God my wife is neither a Serb nor a xxx") or Muslim fundamentalist Alija Izetbegovic. Wiesel begged clinton to bomb Serbia. They didn't even put up an exhibit on Jasenovac in their Holocaust museum in Washington D.C. till much later, and even after that, they are still posting revisionist figures, saying that 80,000 people died in Jasenovac. Wiesenthal and the German Nazis who were there have said consistently that 600,000-700,000 overwhelmingly Serb victims were slaughtered in Jasenovac death camp alone, yet the US Holocaust museum has "better, more reliable" figures of 80,000. Not to mention Joseph Liebermann who cried for bombs on Serbia and said the headcutting KLA terrorists shared "American values," Madeleine Albright (psychopath with an axe to grind against Serbs, also refugee in Serbia), Lantos, Soros, Richard Holbrook (engineer of the Kosovo war, also xxxish), NATO commander Wesley Clark (also xxxish), defense secretary William Cohen and advisor Berger, and the hysterial Anthony Lewis and horrid David Rieff and Roy Gutman. And Israel, throughout all of this, was silent. That is how the xxxs repaid the Serbs for hiding them during WWII and fighting the Nazis.

That said, I don't want to blame all xxxs or even most xxxs in general. But I think their organizations and their most prominent leaders, from the Holocaust survivors Wiesel, Lantos, and Soros (although Soros actually helped round up Hungarian xxxs) to the representatives, senators, ambassadors, and Israeli politicans - all of these acted shamefully towards both Armenians (for decades) and Serbs (over the past 20 years). The irony of it all is that Armenian and Serbian antisemitism was practically nonexistent. Never in Serbia's history was there an anti-xxxish pogrom - EVER - and I don't believe there was an Armenian anti-xxxish pogrom either. But now they have made enemies of people that didn't hate them - because they have implicitly and explicitly denied them their humanity (how many xxxish journalists were NOT calling Serbs "rapists" and "killers"?) and joined in with their oppressors and persecutors.

[Armenian]

Re: Israel braces as US-Turkey crisis erupts

Armenians ‘massacred 10,000 xxxs,’ claims report

Recent remarks by New York-based xxxish lobby organization the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) about the alleged Armenian genocide have added further fuel to a long-standing debate over the World War I-era deaths of Anatolian Armenians. However, recent studies conducted in Ottoman archives reveal another side to the period, suggesting that Armenian gangs killed about 10,000 xxxs in Anatolia and the Caucasus around the same time, according to a news story in the latest issue of Aksiyon news magazine. The recent remarks by the ADL that the Armenian genocide claims should be accepted -- a stance which was later softened by the qualification that it was a matter for historians -- caused uneasiness among the global xxxish community, Aksiyon noted. At the time Lenny Ben-David, former undersecretary at the Israeli Embassy in the US, had cautioned the Israeli government to act wisely on the issue. In his article published in the Oct. 5 issue of the Jerusalem Post, titled “Turkey and Armenia: What xxxs should do,” In the piece, Ben-David referred to the arguments that Armenians killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims and hundreds of xxxs in the early 20th century. An examination of the Ottoman archives and documents shows Armenian gangs are estimated to have killed somewhere in the region of 2 million Muslims between 1914 and 1919. The same archives also suggest thousands of xxxs were killed by Armenians. Though the definite number is not known, it is reckoned to be approximately 10,000. Aksiyon’s story also explains that Gad Nassi, a researcher and author who has made studies on Sabetayist, Ladino-speaking and Crypto xxxish communities, took down the massacre stories of living witnesses. At that time the Ottoman Empire sponsored the detailed studies of the atrocities perpetrated against Muslims by Armenians in collaboration with Russians. According to the reports prepared from these studies, officials saw a pile of the corpses of 300 xxxish people who had set off from Hakkari to search for their relatives, only to be intercepted and killed by Armenians. International Strategic Research Organization (ISRO/USAK) Chairman Sedat Laçiner maintains that the lack of a xxxish population in southeastern Anatolia can be attributed to massacre by Armenians.

Source: http://www.turks.us/article~story~20071009211751578.htm