Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Originally posted by ninetoyadome View Post
    When Turkey achieved the incorporation of Nakhichevan in the Azerbaijani Republic, it also bought from Iran a strip of land to achieve common borders with Nakhichevan.
    This just shows how deeply ingrained that false belief is. Repeat a lie often enough and all the people start to think it is true.
    Plenipotentiary meow!

    Comment


    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
      Sorry, for some reason I thought you were Turkish. But your attitudes towards (and suspicions of) cartography seem "oriental".
      And this sounds very much like a bigoted and racist statement!

      Comment


      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
        This just shows how deeply ingrained that false belief is. Repeat a lie often enough and all the people start to think it is true.
        You probably did not even take the time to review countless books that have been published by authors that have very little to do with either side and were just snippets of diplomatic and political events in history.

        For all the talk, you have produced NO DOCUMENT or ANY SORT OF PROOF to back up what you are implying. So there you have it, lots of talk and nothing substantial to back it up, versus - peer-reviewed serious scholars and authentic maps dating from the time.

        Comment


        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
          Repeat a lie often enough and all the people start to think it is true.

          Yeah, it's kinda similar to not admiting when you're wrong
          For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
          to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



          http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

          Comment


          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
            This just shows how deeply ingrained that false belief is. Repeat a lie often enough and all the people start to think it is true.
            Nakhchivan, Nakhchivan, Nakhchivan, Nakhchivan....By God yes, its Nakhchivan.

            Comment


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
              This has nothing to do with maps - it is to do with a lie.

              The piece of Armenian propaganda that started this discussion was a false claim that in the 1930s Turkey had taken land from Iran in order to create a land-bridge to Nakhchivan, and a claim that this proved that Turkey has had a long-term malevolent intent towards the Armenian state. I can imagine that stuff being included in the sound-bite-filled pamphlets that Armenians distribute to non-Armenians in an attempt to garnish support for this or that cause. The same pamphlets include things like the fake Hitler quote, the probably-fake Andonian telegraphs, etc. Those lies are so easily disproved that the entire message is called into question, and the entire cause is damaged.

              A lot of Armenians have ideas about Armenian history that have little or no basis in fact, the sort of ideas that make neutral observers cringe with embarrassement and want to distance themselves from anything to do with Armenians. This is the core reason why non-Armenians must have little faith in Armenian historiography. And things are getting worse as each year passes.

              During the Soviet period, Soviet history was of course heavily manipulated, but in general most of what was before the Soviet period was written about accurately, and Armenian historians had a desire to follow best practices - even if they were often not allowed to.

              Since the end of the Soviet era, there are a growing number of extreme nationalists in Armenia and fanatics amongst the diaspora who try to use history as a tool to further their particular ideologies. Of course things are not (yet) as bad as Turkish historiography, and still very far removed from the blatant lies produced by Azerbaijan. However, unless the Armenian intelligentsia start to stand up to the sort of bigots who have filled this thread with their nonsense, Armenian historiography will be ranked below even that of Turkey (where things are improving, not going backwards). Is the Armenian intelligentsia limited to Ara Baliozoian with his mannered, insular, often fey and weasely tricky writings? Turkey doesn't need truths to be known or lies to be discredited for it to survive - but Armenia's very survival may rest on certain truths being widely and internationally known.
              Armenian extremism, especially against Armenians, isn't anything new.

              The Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnags): A study in political gymnastics. A documented record of pro-Soviet Armenia and pro-Soviet editorials ... printed in ARF Press, 1943 through 1947 [Carlson, John Roy] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnags): A study in political gymnastics. A documented record of pro-Soviet Armenia and pro-Soviet editorials ... printed in ARF Press, 1943 through 1947




              Even Soghomon Tehlirian killed many Armenians in Istanbul (as was the tashnag policy during the genocide).

              It's amazing what you can do to your own people by calling them 'traitors'.

              And I'm certain nationalism isn't very strong in Armenia, including nationalist parties. They're just wealthy because they're imports.

              Though its true Armenian 'revolutionaries' are still begging from crumbs from imperialists (ironic considering they're also supposed to be socialist) they usually are doing so more to maintain control over their followers than actually convincing anyone to care, which Armenian history tells us is impossible.

              But all said and done, we are nowhere near as bad as turks, in nationalism, propaganda, or self delusion.
              kurtçul kangal

              Comment


              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Originally posted by AlphaPapa View Post
                But all said and done, we are nowhere near as bad as turks, in nationalism, propaganda, or self delusion.
                Armen Ayvazyan, the Armenian equivalent of Kemal Kerinçsiz?

                YEREVAN COURTS ENTERTAINS AN ACTION ON ARMENIAN GENOCIDE DENIAL

                PanARMENIAN.Net
                19.10.2009 11:43 GMT+04:00

                /PanARMENIAN.Net/ First instance court of Kentron and Nork Marash
                communities of Yerevan entertained an action Ararat strategic research
                center director Armen Ayvazyan filed against Caucasus Institute.

                The judicial day has not been determined yet, spokesperson for Court
                of Cassation Alina Yengoyan told PanARMENIAN.Net.

                Caucasus Institute, whose administration is accused by Ayvazyan of
                Armenian Genocide denial, has not received a summons either.
                Plenipotentiary meow!

                Comment


                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Originally posted by Catharsis View Post
                  Nakhchivan, Nakhchivan, Nakhchivan, Nakhchivan....By God yes, its Nakhchivan.
                  Ahhh, yes Nakhichivan - another laughable "historical fact", this time it is one invented in Armenia by the Armenian Church during the early 19th century, at a time when historians elsewhere were discarding such medievalist folk-etymology explanations.
                  That same medievalist folk etymology mindset is still alive and flourishing, one need only look at what most Armenians consider the word Karabakh to mean and their ill-judged attempts to remove it use. Many want to deny their own history because they don't know what its true origin probably is.
                  Last edited by bell-the-cat; 10-25-2009, 08:49 AM.
                  Plenipotentiary meow!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
                    Ahhh, yes Nakhichivan - another laughable "historical fact", this time it is one invented in Armenia by the Armenian Church during the early 19th century, at a time when historians elsewhere were discarding such medievalist folk-etymology explanations.
                    Of course, the Turkic distortion is much more "historically factual." Who needs to use Armenian names with their Armenian pronunciations for Armenian historical places?

                    That same medievalist folk etymology mindset is still alive and flourishing, one need only look at what most Armenians consider the word Karabakh to mean and their ill-judged attempts to remove it use.
                    And this says nothing since you are not making your case about the word Karabakh. Can you be specific?

                    Many want to deny their own history because they don't know what its true origin probably is.
                    Another empty allusion that means nothing. Can you elaborate?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by Catharsis View Post
                      You probably did not even take the time to review countless books that have been published by authors that have very little to do with either side and were just snippets of diplomatic and political events in history.

                      For all the talk, you have produced NO DOCUMENT or ANY SORT OF PROOF to back up what you are implying. So there you have it, lots of talk and nothing substantial to back it up, versus - peer-reviewed serious scholars and authentic maps dating from the time.
                      I already told you that the strip is clearly shown as being within Russian territory in multiple maps, including those in "Armenia: A Historical Atlas"
                      by Robert H. Hewsen" (http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/332284.html). You have no sources: thumbnail maps and press-releases by Armenian fanatics don't count as sources.

                      But I know nothing I say will make an Armenian discard his or her childish fantasies. You seem to love them like a masochist loves a painful rotting tooth - no amount of persuading and reasoning will make you get it pulled out!
                      Last edited by bell-the-cat; 10-25-2009, 09:42 AM.
                      Plenipotentiary meow!

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X