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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Azerbaijan received the first batch of T-300 MLRS from Turkey



    Azeris have Smerch in Nakhchivan, is it capable of striking our S300s?





    Never mind I just realized we didn't purchase anything, but we sent them to be modernized, 50-100 of them in 2012 and 2013. I apologize. Hyefighter, what you said about the BMP-2 modernization is most likely true. Although, I believe that the PT-72U deal went through. With the AR1A, BMP-2, and PT72U, we are looking at around 160 million spent on new equipment between 2011-2013.

    Here is a translated paragraph I found from a Russian military forum on the BMP/T72 modernization:

    In Armenia started the process of profound modernization of armored vehicles and air defense systems. This is a REGNUM has learned from sources in the Ministry of Defense.
    Specifically, the source said that the joint venture with Poland began overhaul and modernization of T-72 tanks to the level of the RT-72U. The tank will get a new power plant with a capacity of 1,000 hp, improved dynamic protection, lattice screens covering the stern of the hull and turret. Will be installed standalone turret, with remote control, equipped with a 12.7 mm machine gun. The same machine will get a pie surveillance system with 8 cameras, panoramic thermal sight and a new communications system. Will also increased crew comfort - in a tank mounted air conditioning system. All of these changes can bring a standard T-72 to the level of the last Russian and Ukrainian T-90 tanks and BM "Hold."

    Infantry fighting vehicles BMP-1 and BMP-2 also will be renovated, in a joint venture with the Russian Federation, and in the process will be seriously upgraded with a real improvement of performance characteristics - will set new anti-tank missiles and 30mm cannon.
    Particular attention is paid to the modernization of air defense systems, the source said. In addition to the already known systems modernization OSA-AKM, with increased sensitivity, especially at night, at times, with the modernization of the Russian Federation launched anti-aircraft missile systems S-300PT-1 and S-300PS, to the P-300PM. On the set of the new missiles will be installed 48N6E, instead of the old 5V55R, which will increase the firing range from 75 km to 150 km. New radar provides a detection range of up to 300 km, and the ability to fire at the same time 6 targets, with guidance for each of up to 2 missiles at a time.
    EDIT AK105: Iran wouldn't even bother given us weapons. They need all they can get if ya know what I mean.

    China, is giving us almost 1 million dollars in military aid.
    Last edited by Chubs; 09-25-2014, 05:36 PM.
    Armenian colony of Glendale will conquer all of California!

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    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      Armenia seriously needs to get some weapons from Iran and china. Anyone else agree?

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      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Originally posted by Chubs View Post



        Azeris have Smerch in Nakhchivan, is it capable of striking our S300s?


        As I have emphasized before, we need to announce a big purchase It would be big PR for us, and it would give us some shiny new toys. We don't have to show anything. Just confirm some rumors.


        And I was also taking a look at the RPG-29/Kornet test on the T90 and T80U.

        Our T80s are going to be as good as a T72 if not worse. The t80U tested had Kontakt-5. We have T80BVs with worse ERA.

        Azerbaijan has around 60 of the T90s they have ordered. By 2015, they will have their 100 T90s. If we have nothing that can counter that with effectiveness by then, than I think, in the tank arena, we are screwed. We are already screwed in the IFV arena. We need to start upgrading our BTR-80s to BTR-80As immediately, and start ordering new IFVs that can resist 30mm rounds. (BMD-3/4, BMP-3)


        Considering the fact that we haven't really acquired that much, Im going to assume that the PT72U or T72B3 deal went through for 100 million dollars. Lets see, I would assume around 45% of our budget is for maintaining the military. 100 million for the tanks, 50 million for the BMP-2s (Thats if we bought them for full price, which is 500k). Did we ever acquire Smerch?


        Here is a translated paragraph I found from a Russian military forum on the BMP/T72 modernization:



        EDIT AK105: Iran wouldn't even bother given us weapons. They need all they can get if ya know what I mean.

        China, is giving us almost 1 million dollars in military aid.
        I know but I'm talking about weapons not aid, like the AR1A. I was hoping that Armenia wool get some type 99 tanks from china in responce of Azerbaboon getting t90 tanks.

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        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          Originally posted by Ak105 View Post
          I know but I'm talking about weapons not aid, like the AR1A. I was hoping that Armenia wool get some type 99 tanks from china in responce of Azerbaboon getting t90 tanks.
          Ehhh. Type 99 tanks, I'm not too crazy about. They may have superior optics, but if Armenia would be buying tanks in that generation, it might as well be a T90. Last time I checked, China does not export the Type 99 MBT. Besides, it would be much more expensive, due to taxation, and all that other crap. It would be somewhere around 4 million for one tank. If we buy T90s, Armenia would only be paying the same price as the Russian Army, which I believe is 2.5 million dollars a piece. Armenia can buy 29 T90 tanks, redeem the certificate we recieved, and have a fleet of 30 T90 tanks for only 72 million dollars. Although, it would be pointless if we have the PT-72U modernization actually going on. Then we would have 84-100 highly modern T72s, plus the estimated 200-300 T72s we might have in NKR, and then add 20 T80BVs and 1 T90.
          Armenian colony of Glendale will conquer all of California!

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          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Originally posted by Chubs View Post
            Ehhh. Type 99 tanks, I'm not too crazy about. They may have superior optics, but if Armenia would be buying tanks in that generation, it might as well be a T90. Last time I checked, China does not export the Type 99 MBT. Besides, it would be much more expensive, due to taxation, and all that other crap. It would be somewhere around 4 million for one tank. If we buy T90s, Armenia would only be paying the same price as the Russian Army, which I believe is 2.5 million dollars a piece. Armenia can buy 29 T90 tanks, redeem the certificate we recieved, and have a fleet of 30 T90 tanks for only 72 million dollars. Although, it would be pointless if we have the PT-72U modernization actually going on. Then we would have 84-100 highly modern T72s, plus the estimated 200-300 T72s we might have in NKR, and then add 20 T80BVs and 1 T90.
            Yeah you're right. Do you think Armenia will get any armored cars in the future? Like gaz tigrs?

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            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Ak105 and chubs, what are you guys smoking? Armenia has no money to buy new tanks, let alone T90s. Max we could buy is ATGMs to counter their tanks, with privileged prices from Russia.

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              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Originally posted by Ak105 View Post
                Yeah you're right. Do you think Armenia will get any armored cars in the future? Like gaz tigrs?
                Well, she already has them. I believe around 10-20. We still need to invest some more into that category :/ Also, I did some digging in the thread, and realized how stupid I am

                NKR recieved 33 tanks. In one of the screenshots of an armstrade pdf, it said Armenia recieved 35 tanks. This is most likely accurate.
                Nagorno-Karabakh’s Armenia-backed armed forces received 33 battle tanks and over 110 trucks and other vehicles in 2013 as part of an ongoing military buildup, according to their commander, General Movses Hakobian.



                That is still nothing that can confirm the PT-72U. Perhaps hyefighter can help with that.

                Although, I have no idea why in that article it says 110 trucks, but in PDF files I have examined, it says 110 IFVs. And in one, specifically states 110 BMP-2s for repair/modernization.

                I may need some help from someone to sort all this out, and make a list of confirmed items we received.


                I need help to collect sources that accurately depict Armenian defense capabilities and equipment that is *known* and accessible by the general public.

                This includes Artsakhs military capabilities. I am playing on making an infographic and submitting sources to public information sites. I need information backed by reliable sources. This includes stuff about the PT72U, AR1A/Smerch, BMP-1/2 modernization, etc.



                Ak105 and chubs, what are you guys smoking? Armenia has no money to buy new tanks, let alone T90s. Max we could buy is ATGMs to counter their tanks, with privileged prices from Russia.
                Let us dream a little. And its the good stuff.


                I just took at look at Azeri media outlet claims from a year ago. Claiming that this is the extra equipment not included in previous inspections in Armenia.


                The list, in particular, included:

                Tank T-72 - 73 units

                Tank T-54 - 3 units

                Light armoured vehicle MT-LB - 59 units

                Light armoured vehicle MT-LB MA - 1 unit

                BTR-60 (transport vehicle) - 9 units

                BTR-70 (transport vehicle) - 32 units

                BRM-1 (intelligence vehicle) - 14 points

                BMP-2 (infantry fighting vehicle) - 28 units

                BMD-1 (airborne combat vehicle) - 10 units

                R-145BM (radio station) - 23 units

                1v18 (Artillery vehicle - command post) - 9 units

                1v19 (Artillery vehicle - command post) - 3 units

                BMP-1KŞ (command post) - 4 units

                BREM-2 (armoured vehicle for evacuation) - 2 units


                Then there is this:






                Then, there are these articles:




                Then there are these numbers from Hyefighters facebook page:

                The 12 th and 62 th Akhlkalakiits razmabazai ammunition Batumi in 2007, which antsele
                PS: The number is not accurate!
                PART 2

                GRENADE Z 1, FRG 5 - 875 pack
                SPG 9 - 21
                Cuba helicopters - 210
                AGS 17 - 34
                SVD-211
                AK-74 - 2846
                NPM - 1472
                Night binoculars NB 8 - 103



                The 12 th and 62 th Akhlkalakiits razmabazai ammunition Batumi in 2007, which antsele
                PS: The number is not accurate!
                PART 1

                T72 - 21
                BMP2 - 27
                BTR70 / 80 - 12
                BRM1K - 6
                MTLB - 11
                122mm D30 - 11
                152mm AKATSIA - 10
                BM-21 - 9
                BUK - 9
                SHILKA - 4
                STRELA 2M - 84
                STRELA 2 -170
                STRELA 10 - 114


                (Hyefighter, whats wrong with the numbers? Why do you say they are inaccurate? Can you also find the source! Thanks!)
                Last edited by Chubs; 09-25-2014, 09:40 PM.
                Armenian colony of Glendale will conquer all of California!

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                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                  Armenian Army







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                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    I found this chart: http://karabakh.org/conflict/russian...es-to-armenia/

                    Armenian colony of Glendale will conquer all of California!

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                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by Chubs View Post

                      About Us

                      Who we are

                      Karabakh.org is independent nonprofit community aimed to increase public awareness about Karabakh and Nagorno-Karabakh conflict providing wide range scholarly information reflecting various aspects of Karabakh, the region of Azerbaijan.
                      Who we are Karabakh.org is an independent nonprofit organisation founded in 1998 to increase public awareness about Karabakh and Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. We provide a wide range of scholarly information reflecting various aspects of Karabakh, the region of Azerbaijan. About the project There are currently over 200 articles, hundreds of images and several videos available from trustworthy sources including official government reports, statements, research articles, analysis from reputable institutions and independent researchers including our publications. Project contributors In addition to the core team, this project is being supported by a number of NGOs, independent researchers and voluntaries involved in our project. Contact

                      From your provided link, It does not take much to see this is an azeri site thus reliability/propagand value.

                      .
                      Last edited by londontsi; 09-25-2014, 10:59 PM.
                      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
                      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
                      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

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